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Shysters in my industry (and yours!)

Topics relating to managing people and relationships

cmh

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This thread is about shysters. A shyster is a person who uses unscrupulous methods in business. As some of you know, my company grew rapidly over the past 18 months. We do engineering, project management, and fabrication in the energy (oil and gas mostly) sector. As a result, I've gotten a lot of shysters who come sniffing around trying to make a buck. Please add your own shyster experiences. My hope is that some readers will get better more quickly at spotting these cancers on the business world. I know my shyster radar has gotten really good this past few years!

Now, without further ado, the shysters:

The Wing-flapper - I call them wing-flappers because their strategy seems to be to flap their arms fast enough to take off and fly. They are masters of deception, spinning a yarn and pretending to have big clients, big projects, and big capabilities, when in reality they are just an a**hole with a laptop. They are phonies, hoping they can generate enough buzz to suddenly "make it."
The tell: Wing-flappers are easy to spot because they talk a $50mm game, but when you dig deeper, you realize they don't have the capability to do $5k worth of actual work. Their website passes a glance inspection, but a deep dive reveals that it is just a shell of marketing on top of thin air. Another big tell is when they are done regaling you with their $50mm vision, and they don't have the money for a $250k study (an engineering study of this magnitude is typical in my industry to get funding). "Let me get with my money people." Yup, you guessed it, BROKE.


The Buyout Seeker - These people have a thriving business to sell you. It would be a great addition to your business. The problem is that they don't have an actual business. They have a consulting firm of one person. Their business is a cell phone, essentially.
The tell: When you ask for any kind of substance, such as financial reports, or a proposed strategy, you get a deer in the headlights look. They are often approaching retirement age and are looking for a liquidity event. I actually had one of these Buyout Seekers inadvertently admit to me that she was wanting to leave a legacy for her kids by having somebody buy her company. This happened because I let her talk for 3 hours straight. I normally am more jealous of my time, but I figured this would be a great learning experience on shysters, and it was. I finally cut the meeting off when she appeared to be suffering physiological distress from having spoken for 3 hours without pause.


The Sales God - This shyster could sell ice to an Eskimo! Salary, commission, whatever you want. They make tons of money and that's why their current employer/partner/owner etc hates them! They are trying to get on your company's tit, basically. A way to smoke these losers out is to say something like "Well, before we talk about $60 million in revenue, why don't you deliver us one Request for Quote, and we'll pay you a handsome commission, that we both parties can see if it's a good fit."
The tell: Phrases such as "I could make a couple phone calls and have $xxxxx projects!" "I could fill this shop up!" "You better start hiring now" The more sophisticated ones will actually be ready when you say "Ok, make the phone call right now then." But don't be fooled, it's smoke and mirrors.


The Project Dangler - They dangle massive opportunities in front of you, but first you have to do this one little thing, and that thing, and that. Essentially they are trying to get reduced price work done, or free engineering from you. There is some overlap between this shyster and the wing-flapper, but they are not the same. The Project Dangler has real capabilities and business, but they are leading you on.
The tell: The tell is simple, they ask you to do crap work you wouldn't otherwise do in hopes it will lead to a big big project. Real companies will not do this.

What shysters have you dealt with?
 
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Aidan04

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I'm not really at the stage in my business where I would be seeing any of this yet, but I just want to say that this was a very entertaining and informative post.
 

Kevin88660

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I am okay with buyout seekers.

Know as many as them and wait.

There is no exit liquidity elsewhere.

So just play the waiting game and be friendly.

Soon there will be one day when they are left with getting something from you or nothing at all.
 
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cmh

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I am okay with buyout seekers.

Know as many as them and wait.

There is no exit liquidity elsewhere.

So just play the waiting game and be friendly.

Soon there will be one day when they are left with getting something from you or nothing at all.

Did you read what I wrote? I'm talking about people who never took the time and did the work to build an actual business, they essentially just want to sell you a name and a few phone numbers. They want to sell you a FT job. I already have more than a FT job managing my own company and turning it into a true business.
 
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MJ DeMarco

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I had one idiot copy our website to the point of not even trying to hide-it, they were using my server to serve images and even stole my personal customer testimonials, word for word. They only changed the real name, into a fake one.

Then there's the shyster who will mentor you for $5,000 a month.

Hint: It's not a mentorship if they are charging you $60K a year.
 

Private Witt

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I just got out of the biggest shyster toxic dumpster I never knew possible with the Oklahoma cannabis industry. The state is known for scammers and the wild West. Just like the movie Killers of the Flower Moon but modern era.

You ever do oil business in Tulsa, I bet your above listed shysters are everywhere here.
 

Kevin88660

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Did you read what I wrote? I'm talking about people who never took the time and did the work to build an actual business, they essentially just want to sell you a name and a few phone numbers. They want to sell you a FT job. I already have more than a FT job managing my own company and turning it into a true business.
Its worthless if there is no book of business with recurring revenue.

Otherwise it is worth something.
 
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cmh

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I just got out of the biggest shyster toxic dumpster I never knew possible with the Oklahoma cannabis industry. The state is known for scammers and the wild West. Just like the movie Killers of the Flower Moon but modern era.

You ever do oil business in Tulsa, I bet your above listed shysters are everywhere here.
Tulsa is the "oil and gas equipment capital of the world," so yes I have many vendors in Tulsa. Nice town; I feel like OK is an undiscovered gem in some ways. But yes, that leads me to another shyster you see as a vendor:

The Two-More-Weeks Vendor: You don't need to worry about schedule, everything is going smooth as butter. This supplier would never miss a ship date and throw your whole project into jeopardy. Until it's week 16 out of 16 and suddenly they can't ship. But don't worry, it will only be 2 more weeks! The way to combat these types is very simple: you need to be assertive. Do not simply trust that they are professionals in a serious company and will do the right thing. Insist on a weekly progress report or call, and insist on pictures. If they get evasive, fly out. What's $1000 in travel expenses when they could cause your whole project to crater?
The tell: Evasive with firm dates, will not supply pictures, and they definitely don't want you to fly out and check in on their progress. They don't tell you until near the end that they won't hit the date, then they ask for 2 more weeks, which you graciously provide. Then at the very end of those two weeks, there is no call and no equipment. You call them, and they ask for 2 more weeks.
 

cmh

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I had one idiot copy our website to the point of not even trying to hide-it, they were using my server to serve images and even stole my personal customer testimonials, word for word. They only changed the real name, into a fake one.

Then there's the shyster who will mentor you for $5,000 a month.

Hint: It's not a mentorship if they are charging you $60K a year.

LOL, not much nuance here. I can't think of a clever shyster nickname, so we'll just go with "thief"
 

Andy Black

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Lol. Love it. I've definitely met a few project danglers in the past. Not so much now.

I'll let you give these appropriate names:

The ones who get later and later each month at paying. "Oh, did that invoice not get paid? Let me chase that with accounts." Etc. Etc. Till you pull the plug, and find out lots of other contractors had the same experience.

I also remember Blaise Brosnan (a business consultant/coach here in Ireland) saying "Be wary when someone tells you how much they want to work with you and how much money you're going to make together. You're being set up."

And the "I've an idea for an app" guys.

And my favourite: the charismatic visionary building a unicorn startup who pulls you into their vision until you start seeing it's all smoke and mirrors and their real goal is to create a hockey-stick growth graph and get acquired. Feck the people signing up - they're not our customers.
 
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NervesOfSteel

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I like the way you label the shysters!

The Project Dangler - They dangle massive opportunities in front of you, but first you have to do this one little thing, and that thing, and that. Essentially they are trying to get reduced price work done, or free engineering from you. There is some overlap between this shyster and the wing-flapper, but they are not the same. The Project Dangler has real capabilities and business, but they are leading you on.
The tell: The tell is simple, they ask you to do crap work you wouldn't otherwise do in hopes it will lead to a big big project. Real companies will not do this.

I call them the Piggy-Back-Riders! They usually show up with their minimum of 100,000 pieces monthly requirement or so, and they come with a promise to bestow upon you the opportunity to be their vendor if you're willing to use your resources and skills to re-engineer their outdated product into a new supermodel of their industry! Once you provide them with a prototype, expect to get blocked/ignored while they run naked amongst your competitors, to find a new vendor to use your prototype and supply them with the least possible quote.

Defense Mechanism: Charge a heavy upfront fee for the development. It's better to be blocked by them earlier than later. LOL.
 

cmh

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Lol. Love it. I've definitely met a few project danglers in the past. Not so much now.

I'll let you give these appropriate names:

The ones who get later and later each month at paying. "Oh, did that invoice not get paid? Let me chase that with accounts." Etc. Etc. Till you pull the plug, and find out lots of other contractors had the same experience.

I also remember Blaise Brosnan (a business consultant/coach here in Ireland) saying "Be wary when someone tells you how much they want to work with you and how much money you're going to make together. You're being set up."

And the "I've an idea for an app" guys.

And my favourite: the charismatic visionary building a unicorn startup who pulls you into their vision until you start seeing it's all smoke and mirrors and their real goal is to create a hockey-stick growth graph and get acquired. Feck the people signing up - they're not our customers.
Yup!! I've had to ban one of these guys from giving me any sort of pitch. Some of his great ideas:
  • A family of open-source mechanical parts. Literally no other detail provided
  • I should take my seed capital and double it quickly with Wall Street Bets
  • My company should be a company of single-person S-Corps. Imagine the tax savings!

The Idea Man: You are so lucky to know the Idea Man. He's done 99% of the heavy lifting up front, providing you with a multi-million dollar idea that is practically ready to go. All you have to do is fill in a few smaller details like the design, manufacture, marketing, and delivery. You know, the tiny stuff. And what's better, he only wants you to cut him in 50-50. That is, after you sign this NDA of course.
The tell: The Idea Man has lots of specious ideas -- that is they sound ok at first but do not survive much scrutiny. He has many pie-in-the-sky "brilliant ideas," but absolutely no history of executing outside of the warm bosom of a massive institution. Phrases such as "the economics are there" and "we'd be printing money" come to mind. A true Idea Man won't even lower himself to produce things like white papers, slide decks, and definitely not a prototype. But he'll damn sure produce an NDA to protect his "IP."
 

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