Big importing roadblocks (after first weeks 100$+ profit/day)

[RisingStars]

Hello,

First of all I dont really have a question since I dont think anyway can help me, but if you got any advice after reading my text please tell me.

I started importing a few months ago. Had a lot of problems on the way but finally "made it" to get a profitable product/niche, which was making me more then 100$ profit a day (which is a big deal for me since I am still in high school).
Everything was going right:
-had a successful product #1 in my categorie making me nearly 150% profit each sale.
-had a 2nd and 3rd product in that niche in the sample-phase (soon to be released)
-had happy customers (well they still are)

There where a lot of roadblocks on my way (nearly 3 years now) after I started.
Now I face a legal roadblock I cant destroy (Please proof me wrong!! )

I am in germany and selling my product on amazon.de. My product is a little household product with a batterie. Therefore it falls under the electronic law which means that I need:

-A legit CE-Certification to register it on foundation-EAR (Maybe I can get a CE-certification but it will a) cost money b) may be worthless since I have a few problemes with my "manufacturer)
-A registration on foundation-EAR + A guarentee that I wont be bankroupt in the next years- this problem can be solved when I use a company which helps me with the guarentee.

BIG PROBLEM: To do all is I need a brand trademark registration. This will cost around 1000€ (including lawyer and other cost) but will take 6-8 MONTHS.
After that 8 more weeks for foundation-EAR registration.

Thats nearly a damn year!

Shortest time to get a brand does take 6 months and cost + 200€ more.

I cant possible wait 1 year.
There are so many things that can happen:
-The demand for my product can be gone.
-A already registred company can sell by this point.
etc.

I dont have enaugh capital to pay up to 2000€ right now and wait for 10 months till I make profits again.
Of cause I wont give up importing. I think I can find a new- non electric product.

But I dont want to let this great product and the earning potential go.


Note: I can be sued if I dont get the registration and continue selling.

Opinions/suggestions welcome.

Just had to share with someone.

 

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[theag]

What exactly do you mean by brand trademark registration? DPMA Marke/Bildmarke? If yes, you dont need a lawyer to do this. Did my trademark ("Wortmarke)" registration with DPMA myself, too.

Can't help with the CE/EAR stuff but I suggest you do the registration with the DPMA yourself and pay only the registration fees (290€, see http://www.dpma.de/marke/gebuehren/index.html). Shouldnt take more than an hour.

You dont need to wait the full 6-8 months for a trademark. The trademark is issued faster but then comes an opposition period where existing trademark holders can object yours. See http://www.dpma.de/marke/verfahren/index.html

If somebody objects and is right in doing so, your trademark gets deleted again. Thats what you pay the lawyers for, to figure out if there is conflict. I hired a lawyer to do this for my second more complicated trademark. Cost me 1500€ and in the end he only told me "maybe yes, maybe no", so I could have saved that money because I already knew that answer.

Other than that, I stay away from electronic products for exactly those reasons, but seems like you already recognized that now.

 

[RisingStars]

What exactly do you mean by brand trademark registration? DPMA Marke/Bildmarke? If yes, you dont need a lawyer to do this. Did my trademark ("Wortmarke)" registration with DPMA myself, too.

Can't help with the CE/EAR stuff but I suggest you do the registration with the DPMA yourself and pay only the registration fees (290€, see http://www.dpma.de/marke/gebuehren/index.html). Shouldnt take more than an hour.

You dont need to wait the full 6-8 months for a trademark. The trademark is issued faster but then comes an opposition period where existing trademark holders can object yours. See http://www.dpma.de/marke/verfahren/index.html

If somebody objects and is right in doing so, your trademark gets deleted again. Thats what you pay the lawyers for, to figure out if there is conflict. I hired a lawyer to do this for my second more complicated trademark. Cost me 1500€ and in the end he only told me "maybe yes, maybe no", so I could have saved that money because I already knew that answer.

Other than that, I stay away from electronic products for exactly those reasons, but seems like you already recognized that now.

Thank you, wrote you a PM because I can say the DPMA stuff better in german.

 

[Walter Hay]

Hello,

First of all I dont really have a question since I dont think anyway can help me, but if you got any advice after reading my text please tell me.

I started importing a few months ago. Had a lot of problems on the way but finally "made it" to get a profitable product/niche, which was making me more then 100$ profit a day (which is a big deal for me since I am still in high school).
Everything was going right:
-had a successful product #1 in my categorie making me nearly 150% profit each sale.
-had a 2nd and 3rd product in that niche in the sample-phase (soon to be released)
-had happy customers (well they still are)

There where a lot of roadblocks on my way (nearly 3 years now) after I started.
Now I face a legal roadblock I cant destroy (Please proof me wrong!! )

I am in germany and selling my product on amazon.de. My product is a little household product with a batterie. Therefore it falls under the electronic law which means that I need:

-A legit CE-Certification to register it on foundation-EAR (Maybe I can get a CE-certification but it will a) cost money b) may be worthless since I have a few problemes with my "manufacturer)
-A registration on foundation-EAR + A guarentee that I wont be bankroupt in the next years- this problem can be solved when I use a company which helps me with the guarentee.

BIG PROBLEM: To do all is I need a brand trademark registration. This will cost around 1000€ (including lawyer and other cost) but will take 6-8 MONTHS.
After that 8 more weeks for foundation-EAR registration.

Thats nearly a damn year!

Shortest time to get a brand does take 6 months and cost + 200€ more.

I cant possible wait 1 year.
There are so many things that can happen:
-The demand for my product can be gone.
-A already registred company can sell by this point.
etc.

I dont have enaugh capital to pay up to 2000€ right now and wait for 10 months till I make profits again.
Of cause I wont give up importing. I think I can find a new- non electric product.

But I dont want to let this great product and the earning potential go.


Note: I can be sued if I dont get the registration and continue selling.

Opinions/suggestions welcome.

Just had to share with someone.

If you have to register for a European Authorized Representative (EAR) that suggests that your product is designated as a medical device, not just as an electronic device.

People in the US have met similar problems when importing such simple things as laser pointers, because they are classified by the FDA as medical devices!

It seems to me that the EAR system is simply a duplication of the CE requirement, adding another layer of cost for importers and deterring them from competing with EU manufacturers.

I only write this out of sympathy, because I can't suggest a way out of the problem for you. I think you are up against a bureaucratic brick wall, and the sooner you stop beating your head against it and go for those alternative products that you have in mind, the better it will be for you.

For future use, make sure that if the product you choose needs CE certification, that your supplier can provide that. Check that it is genuine. There are plenty of fake certificates out there. Search for my other posts regarding certificates.

Best wishes,
Walter

 

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[Vigilante]

Better homework on the front side will help other people in similar circumstances. Dozens of research hours on the front side are required in any complex situations to make sure you understand fully what you are getting into.

Electronics in particular is fraught with issues. For the patient and studious, these are great barriers to entry.

However, there is no way to "solve" your situation, because it is a matter of compliance with the law. Possibly wholesale them to someone else, either in country or out of the country.

 

[Vigilante]

Hello,

First of all I dont really have a question since I dont think anyway can help me, but if you got any advice after reading my text please tell me.

I started importing a few months ago. Had a lot of problems on the way but finally "made it" to get a profitable product/niche, which was making me more then 100$ profit a day (which is a big deal for me since I am still in high school).
Everything was going right:
-had a successful product #1 in my categorie making me nearly 150% profit each sale.
-had a 2nd and 3rd product in that niche in the sample-phase (soon to be released)
-had happy customers (well they still are)

There where a lot of roadblocks on my way (nearly 3 years now) after I started.
Now I face a legal roadblock I cant destroy (Please proof me wrong!! )

I am in germany and selling my product on amazon.de. My product is a little household product with a batterie. Therefore it falls under the electronic law which means that I need:

-A legit CE-Certification to register it on foundation-EAR (Maybe I can get a CE-certification but it will a) cost money b) may be worthless since I have a few problemes with my "manufacturer)
-A registration on foundation-EAR + A guarentee that I wont be bankroupt in the next years- this problem can be solved when I use a company which helps me with the guarentee.

BIG PROBLEM: To do all is I need a brand trademark registration. This will cost around 1000€ (including lawyer and other cost) but will take 6-8 MONTHS.
After that 8 more weeks for foundation-EAR registration.

Thats nearly a damn year!

Shortest time to get a brand does take 6 months and cost + 200€ more.

I cant possible wait 1 year.
There are so many things that can happen:
-The demand for my product can be gone.
-A already registred company can sell by this point.
etc.

I dont have enaugh capital to pay up to 2000€ right now and wait for 10 months till I make profits again.
Of cause I wont give up importing. I think I can find a new- non electric product.

But I dont want to let this great product and the earning potential go.


Note: I can be sued if I dont get the registration and continue selling.

Opinions/suggestions welcome.

Just had to share with someone.

How were you notified of the problem?

 

[theag]

If you have to register for a European Authorized Representative (EAR) that suggests that your product is designated as a medical device, not just as an electronic device.

I think this got lost in translation. He is referring to the "Stiftung EAR" (Stiftung = foundation in German) or "national register for waste electric equipment" https://www.stiftung-ear.de/en/

"Entrusted with sovereign rights by the Federal Environment Agency (UBA), stiftung ear registers the producers of electrical and electronic equipment and coordinates the provision of containers and the pick-up of electrical and electronic waste equipment"

I did some research after RisingStars PM'd me yesterday and basically what it comes down to, is that he has to guarantee that his company is able to cover the recycling/waste removal costs of products returned within the warranty period, by supplying either a bank guarantee or cash after calculating the guarantee amount.

@RisingStars I found that you dont need to provide your own guarantee as there are collective guarantee systems where you basically pay something like a membership fee. You can find a list at https://www.stiftung-ear.de/en/prod...n/garantienachweis-b2c-geraete/garantiearten/
They all have calculators on their websites and calculate this in TONS. Everything up to 20tons seems to be approx. 700€ to register in their collective guarantee. See here: http://www.gee-services.de/en/guarantee-application/price-calculator-for-2016.html or here http://www.eag-gmbh.de/en/offer.html

This should be the solution to your problem. If the 700€ is economically viable for you at this point is another question, but you're definitely looking at lower costs than you initially thought.

Like Walter says and I think I mentioned this in my PM too, you can probably get the CE cert from your supplier.

As mentioned in my PM, you dont need the trademark registration, as Stiftung EAR is not referring to a "brand" in the sense of trademark law, but just a unique name.

So basically, to sum it up:

Get the CE cert from your supplier.
Buy into one of the collective guarantee systems.
Dont get a trademark at this point.
Get back to selling.

And @Vigilante is right about his point on research.

 

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[Vigilante]

I think this got lost in translation. He is referring to the "Stiftung EAR" (Stiftung = foundation in German) or "national register for waste electric equipment" https://www.stiftung-ear.de/en/

"Entrusted with sovereign rights by the Federal Environment Agency (UBA), stiftung ear registers the producers of electrical and electronic equipment and coordinates the provision of containers and the pick-up of electrical and electronic waste equipment"

I did some research after RisingStars PM'd me yesterday and basically what it comes down to, is that he has to guarantee that his company is able to cover the recycling/waste removal costs of products returned within the warranty period, by supplying either a bank guarantee or cash after calculating the guarantee amount.

@RisingStars I found that you dont need to provide your own guarantee as there are collective guarantee systems where you basically pay something like a membership fee. You can find a list at https://www.stiftung-ear.de/en/prod...n/garantienachweis-b2c-geraete/garantiearten/
They all have calculators on their websites and calculate this in TONS. Everything up to 20tons seems to be approx. 700€ to register in their collective guarantee. See here: http://www.gee-services.de/en/guarantee-application/price-calculator-for-2016.html or here http://www.eag-gmbh.de/en/offer.html

This should be the solution to your problem. If the 700€ is economically viable for you at this point is another question, but you're definitely looking at lower costs than you initially thought.

Like Walter says and I think I mentioned this in my PM too, you can probably get the CE cert from your supplier.

As mentioned in my PM, you dont need the trademark registration, as Stiftung EAR is not referring to a "brand" in the sense of trademark law, but just a unique name.

So basically, to sum it up:

Get the CE cert from your supplier.
Buy into one of the collective guarantee systems.
Dont get a trademark at this point.
Get back to selling.

And @Vigilante is right about his point on research.

Gold post. Speed+ as you probably literally just saved this guy his business.

@MJ DeMarco here is a candidate post to bookmark in case you ever need to test out a gold post system. This post might have literally saved a business.

 

[kwodzilla]

I don't know anything about the foundation-EAR or the brand registration but what I know about the CE cert may be useful to your situation. If you are selling under your brand that you own, you are technically the manufacturer so you will have to produce your own CE cert and technical documentation. You can get your supplier to provide their technical documentation and make one based on that, but you are obliged to carry out all the testing and risk assessment to ensure you are in line with the directives as well as take all the liability by signing the technical documentation yourself (or someone else in your business). I don't know how easy this is, there may be ways around the testing and risk assessment but my point is from what I understand you have to take more measures than just using your supplier's cert and documentation. This is my experience with toys in the UK (I chose to pursue other products when I discovered this) but it should extend to other products that require the CE mark and other countries in the EU.

 

[RisingStars]

Sorry for the late answer to everyone.
I reply each of you in the following:

@Walter Hay

Yes I've read all the posts of you for CE-certification. The problem is that I cant find a manufacturer with legit certifications. I am pretty sure I bought from a wholesaler with faked certifications.
I found that a lot of "manufacturers" sent me a ce-certification by a chinese company which shows "Kelilong" as manufacturer.

So I guess all the wholesalers buy from Kelilong. I contacted Kelilong but they dont answer.
Nearly every supplier answers my mails, so I am wondering why they are not interested in selling to me.

@Vigilante Yes next time I should research all this earlier. Its a great learning experience, tho.
How I found out about this?

I was looking for solutions that chinese sellers cant kill my listing on amazon when they sell their product under mine.
A brand name would be the final solution for this problem. I then found out that if I register a new brand name I have to change the EAR name.
Realised that I dont even have a EAR name

@theag Cant thank you enaugh. Gold post.
I will write a detailed answer to you in your PM too.

I think you really found a solution.

My only problem is to get a legit CE-certification. I got a certification but I dont know if it is really legit or if my manufacturer is really a manufacturer. They dont have an assessment report for example, but they got their name as "manufacturer" on the ce-certification.

The cert number check on the certification company website also works well. The only problem will be if german authorities will accept such a certification or not.


@kwodzilla If I need a unique name for the EAR I have to do the testing myself - or atleast let it do myself, if its true what you said.
I will write to TÜV and ask them what a test would cost.

The problem is that I am not 100% sure of the reliability of my supplier, so I dont know if I should invest a lot into the certification if my supplier is only a wholesaler and stops selling to me in 1 month.





Thanks to everyone. All of you helped me so much with your posts. I will keep you updated. When I am home I will do some research and let you know if it will work out.

 

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[Tehcasa]

Sorry for the late answer to everyone.
I reply each of you in the following:

@Walter Hay

Yes I've read all the posts of you for CE-certification. The problem is that I cant find a manufacturer with legit certifications. I am pretty sure I bought from a wholesaler with faked certifications.
I found that a lot of "manufacturers" sent me a ce-certification by a chinese company which shows "Kelilong" as manufacturer.

So I guess all the wholesalers buy from Kelilong. I contacted Kelilong but they dont answer.
Nearly every supplier answers my mails, so I am wondering why they are not interested in selling to me.

@Vigilante Yes next time I should research all this earlier. Its a great learning experience, tho.
How I found out about this?

I was looking for solutions that chinese sellers cant kill my listing on amazon when they sell their product under mine.
A brand name would be the final solution for this problem. I then found out that if I register a new brand name I have to change the EAR name.
Realised that I dont even have a EAR name

@theag Cant thank you enaugh. Gold post.
I will write a detailed answer to you in your PM too.

I think you really found a solution.

My only problem is to get a legit CE-certification. I got a certification but I dont know if it is really legit or if my manufacturer is really a manufacturer. They dont have an assessment report for example, but they got their name as "manufacturer" on the ce-certification.

The cert number check on the certification company website also works well. The only problem will be if german authorities will accept such a certification or not.


@kwodzilla If I need a unique name for the EAR I have to do the testing myself - or atleast let it do myself, if its true what you said.
I will write to TÜV and ask them what a test would cost.

The problem is that I am not 100% sure of the reliability of my supplier, so I dont know if I should invest a lot into the certification if my supplier is only a wholesaler and stops selling to me in 1 month.





Thanks to everyone. All of you helped me so much with your posts. I will keep you updated. When I am home I will do some research and let you know if it will work out.

dam EU sounds very tough to import goods with CE, glad I don't import from there :/

 

[RisingStars]

dam EU sounds very tough to import goods with CE, glad I don't import from there :/

Yes true, but its good for those who dont give up to quick. The Certification and everything around it is a great barrier to entry for potential "easy-road" importeurs.

 

[JAJT]

dam EU sounds very tough to import goods with CE, glad I don't import from there :/

"If it were easy..."

 

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[Tehcasa]

Yes true, but its good for those who dont give up to quick. The Certification and everything around it is a great barrier to entry for potential "easy-road" importeurs.

Very true! Here in Australia regulations aren't as strict as the EU so I guess the barrier to entry is relatively easier for me (which is bad!). But that's no excuse I can devolve on, in fact I keep away from any excuse now! (sort of a news years resolution haha)
Excuses are practically a revision of the facts that you made up in order to help yourself feel better about what happened, (or didn’t). I don't know why I'm ranting on about excuses, but this is just something I thought I'd share that'd be useful for you, and everyone

Sorry for the late answer to everyone.
I reply each of you in the following:

@Walter Hay

Yes I've read all the posts of you for CE-certification. The problem is that I cant find a manufacturer with legit certifications. I am pretty sure I bought from a wholesaler with faked certifications.
I found that a lot of "manufacturers" sent me a ce-certification by a chinese company which shows "Kelilong" as manufacturer.

So I guess all the wholesalers buy from Kelilong. I contacted Kelilong but they dont answer.
Nearly every supplier answers my mails, so I am wondering why they are not interested in selling to me.

@Vigilante Yes next time I should research all this earlier. Its a great learning experience, tho.
How I found out about this?

I was looking for solutions that chinese sellers cant kill my listing on amazon when they sell their product under mine.
A brand name would be the final solution for this problem. I then found out that if I register a new brand name I have to change the EAR name.
Realised that I dont even have a EAR name

@theag Cant thank you enaugh. Gold post.
I will write a detailed answer to you in your PM too.

I think you really found a solution.

My only problem is to get a legit CE-certification. I got a certification but I dont know if it is really legit or if my manufacturer is really a manufacturer. They dont have an assessment report for example, but they got their name as "manufacturer" on the ce-certification.

The cert number check on the certification company website also works well. The only problem will be if german authorities will accept such a certification or not.


@kwodzilla If I need a unique name for the EAR I have to do the testing myself - or atleast let it do myself, if its true what you said.
I will write to TÜV and ask them what a test would cost.

The problem is that I am not 100% sure of the reliability of my supplier, so I dont know if I should invest a lot into the certification if my supplier is only a wholesaler and stops selling to me in 1 month.





Thanks to everyone. All of you helped me so much with your posts. I will keep you updated. When I am home I will do some research and let you know if it will work out.

dam EU sounds very tough to import goods with CE, glad I don't import from there :/

 

[Tehcasa]

"If it were easy..."

Yea yeah... I know I was just stating a comparable difference between both continents

 

[RisingStars]

Guys I just wanted to give a little update.

First of all thanks to @theag who helped me fenomenal with his research. I owe you something, dude.

Also thanks to your others who helped me too and my own research I slowly figured out a solution to my problem.

Problem 1:
The first issue is that I am not 100% sure if my manufacturer is genuine. I've read @Walter Hay thread and figured that my factury needs to provide a assessment report of a know test institute.
Mine sadly DOESNT have a assessment report. Well they sent me one but its in chinese. I used google translator and the employee list (and positions) look legit but to be honest anyone who speaks chinese could write a pdf assessment report in chinese.
On the other hand on the CE-certification (which looks legit and atleast exists also on the testing institute website) they are stated as manufacturers.
They provided me with a full testing report and photos of their product in the report which is good.
I may just go with them because I did not yet find someone better. -Contacted over 20 "manufacturers"
I am thinking about using a sourcing service, tho to make sure I dont invest the money for the EAR and other stuff for a trader who stops doing business with me after 1 month.

Problem 2:
I found a service on the website of the EAR similar to the services theag suggested. They helped me ALOT via email.
If I go with them in the end I am fully secure. It will cost around 500€ but I am sure its worth it.
They also told me what exactly has to be on the devices (CE, "brandname", bin with a bar under it)
Basically I cant go without them to get the guarentee for the EAR.
Problem is: My manufacturer (the one I found) does not have the"bin with a bar under it" on the product. Solution: I can use a really good sticker.
Oh btw. I need to register the batteries too if I import them (they are already inserted in the product) --> the serive I found will do this for free.
All this will take around 6-8 weeks.

Service:
I got contacted by a service (through the EAR guarentee service - they are partners) who will do these things for me (for pay of cause):
-Take a look at my product and find out all the test reports needed from the supplier (which I am forced to provide incase german government asks)
-They check the product itself, the manual and the packaging
-They will do the EG-conformity report for the government (which states that the product is CE tested - sellers must provide this report)

All this for 380€. First two services for 150€ and 180€ each and the last only in full package.
To be honest I did not yet looked fully into this and I will try to find out how hard it is to do the report myself and to find out which reports I need from my supplier. If this will be a big problem I will outsource it and let them do it. A plus is that if they do it I am 100% secured on the law side.


Problem 3:
I've read that even when a manufacturer can provide a CE-Certification now, they may are not able to hold these standards (or change the product in the run to make it cheaper for them) For example they could use cheap toxic material which is not possible to differentiate by eye but may intoxicate my customers. In order to avoid this I can:
-Let the factory checked of them by a know service (one of these @Walter Hay suggested in his thread) -> this will also solve Problem 1
-But I dont know what about the second (bigger issue) that they will change the product. Anyone got suggestions.


Last thing:
I am thinking about buying a product insurance for my products. I already ordered material and will look it up / check the cost.


Summary:
Lot of problems but I learnt soooo much already. I will make it. I am doing all this because a) I believe in my product b) want a good night sleep (I could sell already but I fear big lawsuits).
My next steps will be:
-Message the guy I told you about in "Service" my product details and he will make me an offer. The good thing is as long as I stay in my niche I pretty much know after 1 product which reports will be needed for the others.
-Message a service called "IHK". Its a german community of business owners. They offer all kinds of (sometimes free) services. I will try to get a few more information on what I said above (Problems)


For the guys who already helped me in this thread @theag @Walter Hay @Vigilante @kwodzilla Thank your really much. As you can see I am getting closer. If someone got thoughts/advices I am very open to hear them.

Have a great day!

 

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[RisingStars]

BIG UPDATE:

THANK YOU everyone who helped me in this thread and in private messages. Especially @theag and @Walter Hay
without you two I guess I would have given up this project.
It was a big hassle to get here but after ~7 months I managed to get back into business.
Let me summarize the story for those who are interested:
As said I had some legal troubles in January. My product basically wasn't allowed to be sold in germany because it is an electrical device and you need a lot of stuff to import it legally in germany.

In January I reduced price on my item and sold off all my remaining products fast to not get into legal troubles.
After that I basically executed what @theag and @Walter Hay adviced me:

-I found a supplier who had CE and RoHs reports and certificates (If I had stayed with my "old" supplier I would be ordered to get the testing done myself which would have resulted in a upfront cost of 3500€ which was not viable for me cause there was not even a guarentee that the product would have passed the tests!)
--> I tested the Reports from my supplier with Walter's help and they are 100% legit

-I bought into a EAR guarantee System (around 700€)

-In germany you HAVE TO HAVE a risk analysis for every electrical device (paid 1100€ for it)

-I did register my brand because I don't want hijackers to enter my listing and steal all the effort from me (300€ (government) + 170€ (lawyer))

-In germany you also need UPC codes registred with GS1-Germany, otherwise amazon will remove your listing (450€)

-I hired a graphic designer to do some artwork for my packaging (690€)

-I paid for customized blister packaging (1200€)

-Order price from my factory was ~3500€

That equals 8100€ in upfront cost which is a lot.
How did I come up with all this money? I graduated highschool two months ago and busted my a$$ at a manual labor job in a factory to come up with the rest (I had around 4700€ in savings from side hustles/previous jobs and the fire sale of my first product attempt.

What took me so long? I will be honest with you: I procrastinated a lot on the way. I could bring up excuses like my final exams or that it took 10 weeks to get the EAR registration (and be allowed to sell in germany) but to be honest I just didn't put in 10x actions every day. I gave up several times along the way, just to pick myself up again after a week and continue to find a way to make this work.

Was it worth it? YES! I am 14 days in and already nearly got 5000€ back from my investment (well lets say 4000€ because of amazon fees).

In the attachment is a screenshot as proof. Today was the worst day with only 6 sales till now, but I guess bad days happen from time to time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, thats the update. Pretty happy that it turned out like this...
...well to be honest not a 100% happy. Let me explain why:

Currently I don't have any direction where to go with my business. Well not even with my business, I don't have a business, I have a product.
I am sourcing new product and my goal is to put out 3 more products till the 01.01.2017 but I don't have a real direction for my company/brand.

My problem is that I don't seem to figure out how to get away from the "throw a product on amazon stage" to a real brand.
I would love to have a instagram page with value content, a huge facebook following, a youtube channel and a great website.
I don't want to disclose my product here but it is nothing people get "excited" about.
All these great companys I follow/observe have one thing in common:

They are able to market the product in a "modern" way. Sales are coming from instagram, facebook, youtube etc.
But who would "like" a instagram page with one product?
Who would "like" a facebook page with one product?

I am very interested in the "modern" way of marketing on social media, but it doesn't seem that I have the right product for it.


In short: I am lacking the VISION for my company.

Would be thankful for any advices on how to progess from here.


Thank you for reading,

Paul

 

[Dazed]

Well done for working through your problems, that's what being an entrepreneur is all about.

 

[IGP]

BIG UPDATE:

THANK YOU everyone who helped me in this thread and in private messages. Especially @theag and @Walter Hay
without you two I guess I would have given up this project.
It was a big hassle to get here but after ~7 months I managed to get back into business.
Let me summarize the story for those who are interested:
As said I had some legal troubles in January. My product basically wasn't allowed to be sold in germany because it is an electrical device and you need a lot of stuff to import it legally in germany.

In January I reduced price on my item and sold off all my remaining products fast to not get into legal troubles.
After that I basically executed what @theag and @Walter Hay adviced me:

-I found a supplier who had CE and RoHs reports and certificates (If I had stayed with my "old" supplier I would be ordered to get the testing done myself which would have resulted in a upfront cost of 3500€ which was not viable for me cause there was not even a guarentee that the product would have passed the tests!)
--> I tested the Reports from my supplier with Walter's help and they are 100% legit

-I bought into a EAR guarantee System (around 700€)

-In germany you HAVE TO HAVE a risk analysis for every electrical device (paid 1100€ for it)

-I did register my brand because I don't want hijackers to enter my listing and steal all the effort from me (300€ (government) + 170€ (lawyer))

-In germany you also need UPC codes registred with GS1-Germany, otherwise amazon will remove your listing (450€)

-I hired a graphic designer to do some artwork for my packaging (690€)

-I paid for customized blister packaging (1200€)

-Order price from my factory was ~3500€

That equals 8100€ in upfront cost which is a lot.
How did I come up with all this money? I graduated highschool two months ago and busted my a$$ at a manual labor job in a factory to come up with the rest (I had around 4700€ in savings from side hustles/previous jobs and the fire sale of my first product attempt.

What took me so long? I will be honest with you: I procrastinated a lot on the way. I could bring up excuses like my final exams or that it took 10 weeks to get the EAR registration (and be allowed to sell in germany) but to be honest I just didn't put in 10x actions every day. I gave up several times along the way, just to pick myself up again after a week and continue to find a way to make this work.

Was it worth it? YES! I am 14 days in and already nearly got 5000€ back from my investment (well lets say 4000€ because of amazon fees).

In the attachment is a screenshot as proof. Today was the worst day with only 6 sales till now, but I guess bad days happen from time to time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, thats the update. Pretty happy that it turned out like this...
...well to be honest not a 100% happy. Let me explain why:

Currently I don't have any direction where to go with my business. Well not even with my business, I don't have a business, I have a product.
I am sourcing new product and my goal is to put out 3 more products till the 01.01.2017 but I don't have a real direction for my company/brand.

My problem is that I don't seem to figure out how to get away from the "throw a product on amazon stage" to a real brand.
I would love to have a instagram page with value content, a huge facebook following, a youtube channel and a great website.
I don't want to disclose my product here but it is nothing people get "excited" about.
All these great companys I follow/observe have one thing in common:

They are able to market the product in a "modern" way. Sales are coming from instagram, facebook, youtube etc.
But who would "like" a instagram page with one product?
Who would "like" a facebook page with one product?

I am very interested in the "modern" way of marketing on social media, but it doesn't seem that I have the right product for it.


In short: I am lacking the VISION for my company.

Would be thankful for any advices on how to progess from here.


Thank you for reading,

Paul

Hard to answer a vision question for someone else, even if you know what the product is. Damn near impossible without knowing.

I will say this: Your product is in a niche, right? Create content, images,videos, etc. about that niche and how your product compliments it. You can fill up all your social profiles like that...

 

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[petkovic]

Hi Paul,

I am far from being an expert in brand building or marketing but here are some things I thought about what you have written:
Do you have an idea whether you want

• a product-centered brand, basically the same type of product applied to different niches (example: clocks) or
• a theme-centered brand where you have different products for one niche (example: cooking) or
• a collection-centered brand where you select the best (greenest, most stylish, ...) products for a wider range of themes (example: torquato)?

Depending on your choice, you might already be wiser with regard to social media marketing. But remember also that social media is a big hype thing and might not always be your most important marketing tool. Amazon is already a great marketing instrument, putting you in front of millions of potential customers. In this microcosm you can build a strong brand by having a number of highly ranking and well-rated products to build trust in your brand and create cross-promotional effects. This I am saying as a customer

Good luck!

 

[devine]

Currently I don't have any direction where to go with my business. Well not even with my business, I don't have a business, I have a product.
I am sourcing new product and my goal is to put out 3 more products till the 01.01.2017 but I don't have a real direction for my company/brand.

My problem is that I don't seem to figure out how to get away from the "throw a product on amazon stage" to a real brand.
I would love to have a instagram page with value content, a huge facebook following, a youtube channel and a great website.
I don't want to disclose my product here but it is nothing people get "excited" about.
All these great companys I follow/observe have one thing in common:

They are able to market the product in a "modern" way. Sales are coming from instagram, facebook, youtube etc.
But who would "like" a instagram page with one product?
Who would "like" a facebook page with one product?

I am very interested in the "modern" way of marketing on social media, but it doesn't seem that I have the right product for it.


In short: I am lacking the VISION for my company.

Would be thankful for any advices on how to progess from here.


Thank you for reading,

Paul

PM me with a link to your product.

 

[OldFaithful]

Currently I don't have any direction where to go with my business. Well not even with my business, I don't have a business, I have a product.
I am sourcing new product and my goal is to put out 3 more products till the 01.01.2017 but I don't have a real direction for my company/brand.

You do have a business, don't sell yourself short. You provide a product of value to customers that are willing to exchange $ for that value. Great work!

I'd suggest continuing the process of sourcing more companion products to offer.

The question of direction or vision is one that only you can answer, IMO. It can be as simple as the "red lambo", as personal as "your own individual freedom", or a lofty as "making the world a better place". Whatever gets you up and out of bed in the morning...

 

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[MAFI]

BIG UPDATE:

THANK YOU everyone who helped me in this thread and in private messages. Especially @theag and @Walter Hay
without you two I guess I would have given up this project.
It was a big hassle to get here but after ~7 months I managed to get back into business.
Let me summarize the story for those who are interested:
As said I had some legal troubles in January. My product basically wasn't allowed to be sold in germany because it is an electrical device and you need a lot of stuff to import it legally in germany.

In January I reduced price on my item and sold off all my remaining products fast to not get into legal troubles.
After that I basically executed what @theag and @Walter Hay adviced me:

-I found a supplier who had CE and RoHs reports and certificates (If I had stayed with my "old" supplier I would be ordered to get the testing done myself which would have resulted in a upfront cost of 3500€ which was not viable for me cause there was not even a guarentee that the product would have passed the tests!)
--> I tested the Reports from my supplier with Walter's help and they are 100% legit

-I bought into a EAR guarantee System (around 700€)

-In germany you HAVE TO HAVE a risk analysis for every electrical device (paid 1100€ for it)

-I did register my brand because I don't want hijackers to enter my listing and steal all the effort from me (300€ (government) + 170€ (lawyer))

-In germany you also need UPC codes registred with GS1-Germany, otherwise amazon will remove your listing (450€)

-I hired a graphic designer to do some artwork for my packaging (690€)

-I paid for customized blister packaging (1200€)

-Order price from my factory was ~3500€

That equals 8100€ in upfront cost which is a lot.
How did I come up with all this money? I graduated highschool two months ago and busted my a$$ at a manual labor job in a factory to come up with the rest (I had around 4700€ in savings from side hustles/previous jobs and the fire sale of my first product attempt.

What took me so long? I will be honest with you: I procrastinated a lot on the way. I could bring up excuses like my final exams or that it took 10 weeks to get the EAR registration (and be allowed to sell in germany) but to be honest I just didn't put in 10x actions every day. I gave up several times along the way, just to pick myself up again after a week and continue to find a way to make this work.

Was it worth it? YES! I am 14 days in and already nearly got 5000€ back from my investment (well lets say 4000€ because of amazon fees).

In the attachment is a screenshot as proof. Today was the worst day with only 6 sales till now, but I guess bad days happen from time to time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So, thats the update. Pretty happy that it turned out like this...
...well to be honest not a 100% happy. Let me explain why:

Currently I don't have any direction where to go with my business. Well not even with my business, I don't have a business, I have a product.
I am sourcing new product and my goal is to put out 3 more products till the 01.01.2017 but I don't have a real direction for my company/brand.

My problem is that I don't seem to figure out how to get away from the "throw a product on amazon stage" to a real brand.
I would love to have a instagram page with value content, a huge facebook following, a youtube channel and a great website.
I don't want to disclose my product here but it is nothing people get "excited" about.
All these great companys I follow/observe have one thing in common:

They are able to market the product in a "modern" way. Sales are coming from instagram, facebook, youtube etc.
But who would "like" a instagram page with one product?
Who would "like" a facebook page with one product?

I am very interested in the "modern" way of marketing on social media, but it doesn't seem that I have the right product for it.


In short: I am lacking the VISION for my company.

Would be thankful for any advices on how to progess from here.


Thank you for reading,

Paul

Awesome thread Paul, sitting in the same boat in highly regulated germany to get traction with product importing outside of EU. May i kindly ask what you suggest:

how to test (legally), verify if a product is worth the whole upfront cost hassle certificates EAR etc.
My idea would be to sell the first 10-20 units from different private selling accounts to avoid the competition laws and insurance issues etc.
Then to see if sell trough is satisfying. Thank you very much!

Stay succesful and kind regards
Sebastian

 

[Unknown]

I think this got lost in translation. He is referring to the "Stiftung EAR" (Stiftung = foundation in German) or "national register for waste electric equipment" stiftung ear: Home

"Entrusted with sovereign rights by the Federal Environment Agency (UBA), stiftung ear registers the producers of electrical and electronic equipment and coordinates the provision of containers and the pick-up of electrical and electronic waste equipment"

I did some research after RisingStars PM'd me yesterday and basically what it comes down to, is that he has to guarantee that his company is able to cover the recycling/waste removal costs of products returned within the warranty period, by supplying either a bank guarantee or cash after calculating the guarantee amount.

@RisingStars I found that you dont need to provide your own guarantee as there are collective guarantee systems where you basically pay something like a membership fee. You can find a list at stiftung ear: Garantiearten
They all have calculators on their websites and calculate this in TONS. Everything up to 20tons seems to be approx. 700€ to register in their collective guarantee. See here: GEE Services GmbH: Price Calculator for 2016 or here Elektro-Altgeräte Garantie Englisch: Offer

This should be the solution to your problem. If the 700€ is economically viable for you at this point is another question, but you're definitely looking at lower costs than you initially thought.

Like Walter says and I think I mentioned this in my PM too, you can probably get the CE cert from your supplier.

As mentioned in my PM, you dont need the trademark registration, as Stiftung EAR is not referring to a "brand" in the sense of trademark law, but just a unique name.

So basically, to sum it up:

Get the CE cert from your supplier.
Buy into one of the collective guarantee systems.
Dont get a trademark at this point.
Get back to selling.

And @Vigilante is right about his point on research.

This from the guy who claims his rep comes from Emma Watson posts....awesome post man. You went above and beyond, and likely saved his business.

 

[RisingStars]

Awesome thread Paul, sitting in the same boat in highly regulated germany to get traction with product importing outside of EU. May i kindly ask what you suggest:

how to test (legally), verify if a product is worth the whole upfront cost hassle certificates EAR etc.
My idea would be to sell the first 10-20 units from different private selling accounts to avoid the competition laws and insurance issues etc.
Then to see if sell trough is satisfying. Thank you very much!

Stay succesful and kind regards
Sebastian

Hi Sebastian,

thanks for taking the time to read my thread and for your good wishes! Really means a lot to me.

In regards of your question: Where do you want to sell it? Do people already sell similar products in this niche? If you wanna sell on amazon I would do the following: Take a few similar products and put it in the basket. When you access your basket you change the number to "999". Then you will know how many products your competitor got.
(Only works if its less then 1000)

Do this a couple of days in a row. If you are lucky they don't sent in new products so it will show you exactly how much they are selling. Then you have an idea on how much you can sell.
If you then improve the product you will have a winner. Read @biophase thread on that.

I hope I could help. If you have more questions especially in terms of German law (which is a bit tricky) don't hesitate to PM me.

All the best,

Paul

This from the guy who claims his rep comes from Emma Watson posts....awesome post man. You went above and beyond, and likely saved his business.

Yes that post was truly phenomenal and saved my business. It might be time for a update soon.

PS: My business is still going!

 

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[MAFI]

Hi Sebastian,

thanks for taking the time to read my thread and for your good wishes! Really means a lot to me.

In regards of your question: Where do you want to sell it? Do people already sell similar products in this niche? If you wanna sell on amazon I would do the following: Take a few similar products and put it in the basket. When you access your basket you change the number to "999". Then you will know how many products your competitor got.
(Only works if its less then 1000)

Do this a couple of days in a row. If you are lucky they don't sent in new products so it will show you exactly how much they are selling. Then you have an idea on how much you can sell.
If you then improve the product you will have a winner. Read @biophase thread on that.

I hope I could help. If you have more questions especially in terms of German law (which is a bit tricky) don't hesitate to PM me.

All the best,

Paul




Yes that post was truly phenomenal and saved my business. It might be time for a update soon.

PS: My business is still going!

Thank you for responding so quickly and the helpful tips. Good to hear your business is doing fine. Looking for that update.

On one hand I am practicing the method that vigilante and walter hay are suggesting - to bring new products to the market that are not beeing sold currently. ( Starting to sell on the two big platforms). So this is a bit tricky to test the waters for me. Keep on going

best regards
Sebastian

 

[RisingStars]

Thank you for responding so quickly and the helpful tips. Good to hear your business is doing fine. Looking for that update.

On one hand I am practicing the method that vigilante and walter hay are suggesting - to bring new products to the market that are not beeing sold currently. ( Starting to sell on the two big platforms). So this is a bit tricky to test the waters for me. Keep on going

best regards
Sebastian

Are there really 0 products in the market that are similar to the one you want to sell? Because most of the time this is because of 2 things:
a) there is no need.
b) laws etc. make it impossible to sell it in germany.

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think @Vigilante and @Walter Hay bring totally new products to the market. Maybe new in terms of highly improved but not something that was NEVER there before. (Please correct me if I am wrong, guys)

You could try to sell it on private accounts to test it. In Fact I did this. (I had a registred company but no EAR and all of that legal stuff)
Nothing happened but I wouldn't do it again.

 

[Vigilante]

Are there really 0 products in the market that are similar to the one you want to sell? Because most of the time this is because of 2 things:
a) there is no need.
b) laws etc. make it impossible to sell it in germany.

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think @Vigilante and @Walter Hay bring totally new products to the market. Maybe new in terms of highly improved but not something that was NEVER there before. (Please correct me if I am wrong, guys)

You could try to sell it on private accounts to test it. In Fact I did this. (I had a registred company but no EAR and all of that legal stuff)
Nothing happened but I wouldn't do it again.

Sam's Club refuses to market brand new concepts or brand-new ideas/technologies. They want somebody else to develop a consumer awareness first. Then they come in with a better value.

The concept is called being a "fast follower"

 

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[G-Man]

Sam's Club refuses to market brand new concepts or brand-new ideas/technologies. They want somebody else to develop a consumer awareness first. Then they come in with a better value.

The concept is called being a "fast follower"

This^^. It's the genius whereby you let the little guy thrash around to get proof of concept, then say "hey look what they're doing over there,... it's working and we can scale the shit out of it"

 

[Walter Hay]

Are there really 0 products in the market that are similar to the one you want to sell? Because most of the time this is because of 2 things:
a) there is no need.
b) laws etc. make it impossible to sell it in germany.

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think @Vigilante and @Walter Hay bring totally new products to the market. Maybe new in terms of highly improved but not something that was NEVER there before. (Please correct me if I am wrong, guys)

You could try to sell it on private accounts to test it. In Fact I did this. (I had a registred company but no EAR and all of that legal stuff)
Nothing happened but I wouldn't do it again.

I have brought totally new products to the market and done extremely well with them, but that was all B2B.

Even in China there will be products that have never been exported. Finding them is the big challenge, but it can be done. I know of other countries that have locally successful products that are not exported because either the manufacturers have limited vision, limited ambition, or no knowledge of how to sell overseas and export the products.

I have often been contacted by residents of other countries asking how to go about selling local product X in the USA, UK, etc. These people won't be looking for importers, they are looking to sell to consumers, but it illustrates the point that in some countries there are products available on the market that have never been seen except by locals.

Some of the unique consumer products that I have seen are to be found in local small markets or back street shops. Tracking down the manufacturer is not easy, but the simplest way is to pay a hefty fee to the retailer. To do this successfully you need either a knowledge of the local language or a good, reliable translator.

Regarding "No need" - The first lesson in selling is to "Establish the Need"! Do consumers come up with the idea that they "need" product XYZ, or do they decide they "need" it because they have seen it on the market?

Who needed a wheel? People transported goods and people on sleds, palanquins, donkeys etc., until they saw wheels. I would like to have been the first person to put wheels on the market.

Walter