Discussion on the value of college degrees, even in business.

[NicoleMarie]

Edit: I should mention I also understand that MJ doesn't say no one should go to college, but for an art job that isn't in huge demand and doesn't pay tons, it seems pretty pointless.

I have not seen a forum post or anything in the book about this issue specifically.

I fully agree that colleges are mainly a business just out for your money and that everything you learn there and more can be self taught much more quickly. HOWEVER, everyone I know seems to think that people will not trust your business or take you seriously if you don't have a degree in modern society. This does not involve working for someone else. For example, if I try to solve a worldwide need and start a business, people these days would probably want to make sure I'm not some uneducated loser. "People" could mean any other business I may want to partner with or customers. Even if I have a successful product, they "would pick someone else more qualified with a degree" over me (according to my mom who has had her own successful newspaper business and claims to know all the business secrets herself). Now I don't doubt her skills and knowledge, and she says times are different now than back when google and all the others made billions, which I agree with, but she doesn't seem to agree that working for someone else seems like a BIGGER risk than KNOWLEDGEABLY shaping a business. I have the knowledge, in theory, but I'm far from being experienced enough to deal with finances, taxes, coding, hiring, engineering, and other complex skills. I am also probably not the best "business candidate" because I'm not willing to live risky and with no food or certainty like MJ admirably did. Because of this, before I read this book, I already enrolled in a college to get a pointless Design Arts degree, which I'm sure will help, but I could spend that $40000 in business ventures. My mom (and I) also still lean towards having a backup plan (a job from a degree).

I don't want to give up quite yet though. I plan to immediately start my business and try to keep working through college full time, which will be hard. At least I have the whole summer left living at home for free, and my dad supports my idea of not getting a job and working on this instead as my income through college. It's hard to make life changing decisions when it's dealing with money, the only present means for survival.

Someone please help. -crisis mode-

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[MJ DeMarco]

towards having a backup plan

How's the "backup plan" working for a lot of college graduates? Having a degree being a "backup plan" is a huge myth, and a costly one at that. Just ask the thousands of college grads who are bartending, waiting tables, and pouring coffee. How's that backup plan working for ya? Instead of having a backup, their backed up to a mountain of debt. Not the "back" they thought they were getting, wouldncha say?

 

[AllenCrawley]

HOWEVER, everyone I know seems to think that people will not trust your business or take you seriously if you don't have a degree in modern society.

Total BS.

You get to the point of needing a CEO or other C-suite employee's then yes you'll want them to have the degrees. But you as the business owner/founder? Not so much.

 

[NicoleMarie]

How's the "backup plan" working for a lot of college graduates? Having a degree being a "backup plan" is a huge myth, and a costly one at that. Just ask the thousands of college grads who are bartending, waiting tables, and pouring coffee. How's that backup plan working for ya? Instead of having a backup, their backed up to a mountain of debt. Not the "back" they thought they were getting, wouldncha say?

I agree. I guess she sees, firsthand, my dad who succeeded with his Bachelor's Degree and sees we are very well off. She says people these days won't take me seriously or trust me unless I have that ever important degree.

I can't just pick up and leave, like you did, because I don't even know if this is just an "amped up phase" I'm having from reading your inspiring book. Heck, I don't even know if I have the motivation it takes, thus the "mediocre backup plan." If I fail and have to settle with a job, so be it I guess. I'm not giving up yet, but it's hard to read something that totally contradicts everything my parents and I have learned, and just trust that.

Thank you for you much needed feedback.

 

[AllenCrawley]

You've read the book. Now, spend some time reading the success stories posted on this forum. One thing you'll soon realize is no one ever credits their college degree to their success. In fact, most never went to college in the first place. Start with the Gold Threads.

 

[NicoleMarie]

Total BS.

You get to the point of needing a CEO or other C-suite employee's then yes you'll want them to have the degrees. But you as the business owner/founder? Not so much.

Hmmm intriguing, I agree. I guess this post is kinda directed at how to remove the doubt of people. I'm trying to figure out if I'm capable of this as well, as I'm not a risk taker and it's still somewhat of a risk even if I follow everything in the book. It doesn't explain every last detail and if I try to look those details up on google or something, I won't know if they are cohesive with MJ's reasoning.

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[AllenCrawley]

I don't think you'll remove the doubt of your parents especially since you have doubt.

 

[NicoleMarie]

You've read the book. Now, spend some time reading the success stories posted on this forum. One thing you'll soon realize is no one ever credits their college degree to their success. In fact, most never went to college in the first place. Start with the Gold Threads.

Thank you, I mentioned there are normal everyday success stories, but she still thinks I can't be those people and should still go to college "just in case." She sees all the failures and doesn't want me to be yet another, which I understand. I don't either! Lol. I also wondered about the part in the book where MJ talks about how he DIDN'T regret his decision to go to college. I can't recall why that was.

Off to read gold threads!

 

[NicoleMarie]

I don't think you'll remove the doubt of your parents especially since you have doubt.

I just tried approaching her with evidence and a very confident approach, but as soon as I mention college being a waste of money and time potentially, and I've tried every kind of reasoning, she immediately shuts it down. I still have a lot of drive, but I'm struggling with the discouragement, especially because she has way more life experience than me and could very well be right.

 

[LibertyForMe]

She says people these days won't take me seriously or trust me unless I have that ever important degree.

So let me paint you a picture.

In 6 months from now you are calling businesses. You are offering them a product that is better and easier to use than what they currently are using. This product also saves them money in the long run. You are halfway through your pitch to the owner of one company, and he is really excited about using it. You just agreed to send him a sample unit, so he can test it out and see if it would meet his needs.

You ask for his shipping address, but then he interrupts you; "Hey, I forgot to ask... do you have a college degree? I only work with business owners who have a college degree."

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

If you are offering something to someone that can save them money, reduce their pain, and solve a serious problem they have - they don't give a crap who you are. You could be homeless for all they care, as long as they get what they want.

Just think about that for a while.

Also, it will take you a while (probably months) to get over this belief. It has been drilled into you since you were small.

I do have my college degree. I've been calling businesses for weeks, and NOT A SINGLE ONE has asked about my educational background.

Hope this helps.

 

[NicoleMarie]

So let me paint you a picture.

In 6 months from now you are calling businesses. You are offering them a product that is better and easier to use than what they currently are using. This product also saves them money in the long run. You are halfway through your pitch to the owner of one company, and he is really excited about using it. You just agreed to send him a sample unit, so he can test it out and see if it would meet his needs.

You ask for his shipping address, but then he interrupts you; "Hey, I forgot to ask... do you have a college degree? I only work with business owners who have a college degree."

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

If you are offering something to someone that can save them money, reduce their pain, and solve a serious problem they have - they don't give a crap who you are. You could be homeless for all they care, as long as they get what they want.

Just think about that for a while.

Also, it will take you a while (probably months) to get over this belief. It has been drilled into you since you were small.

I do have my college degree. I've been calling businesses for weeks, and NOT A SINGLE ONE has asked about my educational background.

Hope this helps.

Awesome reply. Thank you. I still wish I knew why @MJ DeMarco stated that he DIDN'T regret his business degrees though. Even though they weren't directly related to his success, maybe they gave him skills and knowledge he couldn't have had much success without?

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[LibertyForMe]

I think you need to not show anyone anything for a while and just think about it. Figure it out in your brain first, before trying to convince family.

It may even be necessary just to let them think whatever they want to think, and just do what you want to.

Slow down a bit and think about it for a few days.

 

[NicoleMarie]

I think you need to not show anyone anything for a while and just think about it. Figure it out in your brain first, before trying to convince family.

It may even be necessary just to let them think whatever they want to think, and just do what you want to.

Slow down a bit and think about it for a few days.

You are just what I needed. Perhaps I threw too big of an idea at them and though my dad seems more hopeful, she still seems set in her ways. I just hope I can keep up full time college and this. I'm coming up with more automation techniques for when I go off to college as we speak. I can always stop college for a while too and live at home (ick). It's not like I signed a "2 year contract" where I can't quit lol. If things get going, they'll see. They'll all see!!

 

[LibertyForMe]

I am glad I can help! Your post really resonated with me, so I felt like I should respond.

Also, take into consideration who is paying for your college. Are your parents paying for it? Are you having to take out loans for everything?

 

[AubreyJ]

I don't think you'll remove the doubt of your parents especially since you have doubt.

I completely agree with this. How are you supposed to convince other people of your plan or idea, if you haven't even fully convinced yourself yet. If you want your parents, friends, whoever to believe in you, you have to believe in yourself first. You have to jump into your business head first and put 100% of your time, energy, and effort into it. Because if you don't go 100%-you'll never do it, and it will never grow to its full potential. Don't doubt yourself

 

[Nadia]

Alright. Let's set this little myth straight.

I am probably some uneducated loser too, considering I don't have a University Degree and didn't get to wear the coveted cape and gown. I guess no one will give me business because they realised that I am a uni drop out and that I couldn't sit still in any of my lectures. I am probably not able to string a sentence and a half, together because I am not a graduate and don't have "universal education".

Hmm.

So I wonder how I opened businesses, wrote books and have a strong presence with my clients that buy my products and invest in my services repeatedly every single month, because I don't have a degree.

Let's reveal University for the sub-prime that it is. It is a breeding ground for stupid people who have probably the first taste of running around like a 4 legged animal humping everything they find whilst intoxicated, salivating at the fact that a stupid and useless piece of paper at the end of 3 annums is going to provide them with some magic ticket to lots of money. If kids were told that THAT'S how they were going to get the ripped the f*** out of, financially--there would be a lot less idiots running around in the world.

Alas, the system needs to indenture it's citizens to debt and as Noam Chomsky famously said "debt enslaves so we are unable to focus on anything else". I have been in Business debt before when my spa closed. I know the exact feeling. Not to mention the student loan hell my stupid, young and naive mind bought into as an 18 year old.

Bottom line : No one gives a flying f*** about your degree. And if they do, that's why they are broke.

Just my two cents here.

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[NicoleMarie]

How's the "backup plan" working for a lot of college graduates? Having a degree being a "backup plan" is a huge myth, and a costly one at that. Just ask the thousands of college grads who are bartending, waiting tables, and pouring coffee. How's that backup plan working for ya? Instead of having a backup, their backed up to a mountain of debt. Not the "back" they thought they were getting, wouldncha say?

I have another question for you that I as well as many others would like to know. I'd really appreciate a reply. Is being an entrepreneur really as complex and challenging as it appears? I just read the gold threads and there's all these employees, taxes, building purchases, and government stuff and whatnot. Can a simple google session or even a class prepare us for this? Can simple businesses without all this stuff still make it big? Thanks!

 

[Nadia]

Oh and, if it comes down to uneducated losers, hmmm--I wonder why one of my most successful friends, who is a high school drop out, has companies today worth $3B and is personally worth $450M ?

You do the maths on that one.

 

[NicoleMarie]

Alright. Let's set this little myth straight.

I am probably some uneducated loser too, considering I don't have a University Degree and didn't get to wear the coveted cape and gown. I guess no one will give me business because they realised that I am a uni drop out and that I couldn't sit still in any of my lectures. I am probably not able to string a sentence and a half, together because I am not a graduate and don't have "universal education".

Hmm.

So I wonder how I opened businesses, wrote books and have a strong presence with my clients that buy my products and invest in my services repeatedly every single month, because I don't have a degree.

Let's reveal University for the sub-prime that it is. It is a breeding ground for stupid people who have probably the first taste of running around like a 4 legged animal humping everything they find whilst intoxicated, salivating at the fact that a stupid and useless piece of paper at the end of 3 annums is going to provide them with some magic ticket to lots of money. If kids were told that THAT'S how they were going to get the ripped the f*** out of, financially--there would be a lot less idiots running around in the world.

Alas, the system needs to indenture it's citizens to debt and as Noam Chomsky famously said "debt enslaves so we are unable to focus on anything else". I have been in Business debt before when my spa closed. I know the exact feeling. Not to mention the student loan hell my stupid, young and naive mind bought into as an 18 year old.

Bottom line : No one gives a flying f*** about your degree. And if they do, that's why they are broke.

Just my two cents here.

I am glad to hear about a success story like yours! Within 5 minutes I found more free graphic design resources that were not only MORE helpful than my college graphic design class, but also included stuff that my NEXT college doesn't even include. College really is a business. It's hard though when I see my dad who has a great job from a Bachelor's Degree AND he went on to make his own inventions and books. Plus let's face it, living away from home will be like what MJ did on a smaller scale. I'll FINALLY be on my own in a fun environment, hehe.

 

[NicoleMarie]

Oh and, if it comes down to uneducated losers, hmmm--I wonder why one of my most successful friends, who is a high school drop out, has companies today worth $3B and is personally worth $450M ?

You do the maths on that one.

Impressive!

 

[Nadia]

I have another question for you that I as well as many others would like to know. I'd really appreciate a reply. Is being an entrepreneur really as complex and challenging as it appears? I just read the gold threads and there's all these employees, taxes, building purchases, and government stuff and whatnot. Can a simple google session or even a class prepare us for this? Can simple businesses without all this stuff still make it big? Thanks!

YES. An Entrepreneur, people think is a life of freedom. Ha.

Freedom from mundane drudgery, yes. Only after you have paid the following prices. Broke, Hungry, Frustrated, Desperate and Beyond Anguish. Are you ready for all this Nicole ? This is just the mindset training. This is enough to scare the weak and timid out of our world. Wealth never opens doors to those who aren't prepared to pay it's price.

Let's break it down.

Employees -- Bunch of loser, whiny cry babies that you have to feed every single month through a paycheck, always whinging about something because an employer is their surrogate parent. Employees yes, help you grow but you need to run a tight ship to have it all in order.

Taxes -- Useless money we are forced to pay to the govt to avoid prison. Thankfully, as a rich person, the law is on YOUR side. Which means you pay tax AFTER you spend. Not before.

Building purchases -- You are probably referring to taking a premises or a lease. Read T&C's VERY well and carefully. Never lock yourself into something you aren't sure of.

Govt Stuff -- Read Taxes. Not tough to understand at all.

The idea is to first prepare your mind to run its course. The above stuff is useless without Mindset Mastery. As you learn, you expand.

As you expand, so does your business !

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[LibertyForMe]

Can a simple google session or even a class prepare us for this? Can simple businesses without all this stuff still make it big?

I think @Darius just said something about this recently. He was saying how instead of researching about a problem for half the day and then taking action the other half of the day, he only researches enough to take the first step and then he takes that step.

As your business needs grow, so will you and your capacity to handle problems. Don't worry about running a billion dollar company, worry about running a 3k a month company and grow from there.

 

[Nadia]

I am glad to hear about a success story like yours! Within 5 minutes I found more free graphic design resources that were not only MORE helpful than my college graphic design class, but also included stuff that my NEXT college doesn't even include. College really is a business. It's hard though when I see my dad who has a great job from a Bachelor's Degree AND he went on to make his own inventions and books. Plus let's face it, living away from home will be like what MJ did on a smaller scale. I'll FINALLY be on my own in a fun environment, hehe.

Why thank you Always learning and achieving.

University is a cash cow. See it for what it is and avoid the hell out of it.
Your dad is the exception. NOT the norm.

 

[NicoleMarie]

I am glad I can help! Your post really resonated with me, so I felt like I should respond.

Also, take into consideration who is paying for your college. Are your parents paying for it? Are you having to take out loans for everything?

They are paying for half right now but we are about to take out a 10,000 loan for the year (yikes!). I also have a brother going to college who they are also paying half for. But hey, maybe my business will pay for that loan soon lol. So far we have no college debt until that loan for Fall semester. Why didn't I read this book like, 3 years ago??

 

[NicoleMarie]

Why thank you Always learning and achieving.

University is a cash cow. See it for what it is and avoid the hell out of it.
Your dad is the exception. NOT the norm.

I agree! -cue slowlane secret exit-

 

[Affirmed]

I'll chime in here since I am at the tail end of getting my MBA.

It's not about touting that you have any sort of degree (and people probably aren't going to ask you about it) but it is the things you will learn that will help you grow your company until it becomes really successful and you can hire others to do this type of work, i.e. financial analysis, decision analysis, strategic management, etc.

On the other hand, there are books, magazines, and trade journals out there that will point you in the right direction and get you moving quickly without slamming you with college loans. One subscription (and additional articles) I have recently picked up is the Harvard Business Journal for like $99/year.

For me, the amount of business knowledge I have acquired from schooling AND real life in the last year is amazing. Not that i couldn't have learned it on my own, but this vastly accelerated the learning curve for me, in my situation. The next step for me is a new position at my company, which the monetary raise itself will pay for my education in a year, while I begin building a business.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

Dislike ads? Become a Fastlane member: Subscribe today and surround yourself with winners and millionaire mentors, not those broke friends who only want to drink beer and play video games. :-)

[NicoleMarie]

I think @Darius just said something about this recently. He was saying how instead of researching about a problem for half the day and then taking action the other half of the day, he only researches enough to take the first step and then he takes that step.

As your business needs grow, so will you and your capacity to handle problems. Don't worry about running a billion dollar company, worry about running a 3k a month company and grow from there.

Awesome thanks! I hope so. I don't want to mess something major up.

 

[LibertyForMe]

For clarification; I wasn't saying you should ditch college. I was saying that it doesn't matter to other business owners and you need to figure out what you want to do.

If your college bill isn't that big, and you still have a year or two left of college, you can substitute hanging out with friends for working on your business. I probably spent 10 hours a week in class and 50 hours a week chilling with friends when I was in college. If you want to find time to work on your business and still be in school, you can totally work 30 hours a week on your biz.

 

[splok]

She says people these days won't take me seriously or trust me unless I have that ever important degree.

People who want to hire people with degrees won't take you seriously without a degree. So it's simple, if you want someone who wants to hire people with degrees to take you seriously, then you need a degree.

I can't just pick up and leave

Of course you can. You're choosing not to. That's a perfectly fine and valid choice, but so is whatever other choice you could make. Accepting that it's YOUR decision is the first step to creating the life you want, whatever it may be.

she says times are different now...

she doesn't seem to agree...

she sees, firsthand...

She says people these days...

she still thinks I can't be those people

She sees all the failures

she immediately shuts it down

she has way more life experience

Sorry if this quoting seems a bit blunt, but I'm trying to make a pattern obvious, in case it wasn't already.

Asking permission has never been a good way to get anything interesting done. There are always a infinite number of great reasons NOT to diverge from the status quo.

In my experience, people are FAR more likely to go along with something if you tell them what you've already decided. (and if you're not confident enough in your decision to do that, then they're probably right...)

 

[NicoleMarie]

I'll chime in here since I am at the tail end of getting my MBA.

It's not about touting that you have any sort of degree (and people probably aren't going to ask you about it) but it is the things you will learn that will help you grow your company until it becomes really successful and you can hire others to do this type of work, i.e. financial analysis, decision analysis, strategic management, etc.

On the other hand, there are books, magazines, and trade journals out there that will point you in the right direction and get you moving quickly without slamming you with college loans. One subscription (and additional articles) I have recently picked up is the Harvard Business Journal for like $99/year.

For me, the amount of business knowledge I have acquired from schooling AND real life in the last year is amazing. Not that i couldn't have learned it on my own, but this vastly accelerated the learning curve for me, in my situation. The next step for me is a new position at my company, which the monetary raise itself will pay for my education in a year, while I begin building a business.

Different strokes for different folks.

Thanks for your input! That's true, I could hire people for that, although I remember MJ specifically saying to avoid human resource if possible. Your approach is kinda where I'm going. Why not try both? I can always leave college if it becomes too hectic to run both. My business could very well pay that loan off in a year instead of a decade. ;D