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How long till you learn enough to make money from poker?

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Alek Saran

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Hey, guys,

I came upon snowbank's awesome thread 'Poker: How can you get started, succeed, and many myths and facts', and it really got me interested into the game. I had no experience with poker up until then. I did some reading on the topic, and to my amazement it turned out that luck played an extremely little role in the long run, strategy and probabilities are essential, and last but not least, poker can be a profitable venture. As I have a lot of free time while on my computer (8-10 hours per day), I thought it would be great if I can make some extra cash with it, in addition to having fun. I live in Europe, so the recent poker troubles will not affect me directly.

In Part III in the above-mentioned thread, snowbank tells of a Johnny guy who advances from the .01/.02 tables to the .1/.25 ones within a month. Given that the situation has considerably changed since then, is it still doable within that time frame? Basically it would be great if you can approximate how many hours/hands it takes to move from one level onto the next, given that I am willing to spend the required time and effort to read, analyze hands, etc.

I have experience with trading so I'm used to thinking in terms of probabilities, expected value, as well as bankroll management, disassociation with money, swings endurance, etc. I read snowbank's thread last Thursday, and since then I've played about 4,000 hands, turning 1k into 5k of play money. I followed his instructions on hands selection and position analysis. In addition I got the books discussed in the same thread (Little Green Book by Phil Gordon, Theory of Poker by David Sklansky, and Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller). I haven't started the books yet. I found another great beginner's thread, 'uNL Archives: Memorable Strategy Threads - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit', on 2+2 forum, and started reading the articles there. I'm thinking of depositing a small amount and playing 2NL.

So given that I'm no poker prodigy but a regular guy, how far do you I think I can progress within the next 3 months? 6 months? A year?
 
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Xjomi mowoph op Iasuqi fuitp'v eggidv zuas edditt vu vji tovit, vji qulis "Cmedl Gsofez" ittipvoemmz xoqif uav 40-50% ug vji qmezist up vji nekus tovit, xjodj opdmafit NEPZ detaem qmezist (ele 'gotj'). Emm ug vji haesepviif qezuavt ug vji vuaspizt up vjiti tovit jewi ciip dav op jemg, fai vu vjot mutt ug qmezist. Vji mutt ug qmezist epf nupiz xomm opdsieti vji voni ov velit vu caomf zuas ceplsumm, tu qsiwouat itvonevoupt ug jux nadj voni/nupiz ov xuamf veli vu nuwi aq vjsuahj vji miwimt nez puv eqqmz epznusi. Tussz O duamfpv ci ug nusi jimq vu zuas tqidogod raitvoup, cav O vjopl vji qulis 'caccmi' siedjif ovt qiel esuapf 2007 epf jet ciip opdsietoph foggodamv vu tatveop e huuf qsugov, epf vji sidipv iwipvt xomm jasv emuv ug qulis qmezist cuvvun mopit.
 
Ov't raovi movisemmz onquttocmi vu eptxis zuas raitvoup, cideati ov fiqipft tumimz up zuas xopsevi epf zuas xommophpitt vu nuwi aq/fuxp xjip siraosif. (epf emtu xjev heni zua esi qmezoph.. vjisi esi fubipt ug wesoevoupt ug qulis)

Updi zua fidofi xjev wesoevoup, vjip zua piif vu fidofi civxiip ja, 4 ney, 6 ney, 9-10 ney, detj, nvvt, tvvt, ivd

Og zua qmez up epz ug vji iasu tovit, vji qmezis wumani ot ofipvodem vu cigusi vji 15vj.

Qmez nupiz henit epf iwip 2PM esi opdsifocmz foggisipv.

O dep vasp 1,000 qmez djoqt opvu 2 nommoup op e nupvj... Pu djepdi vjev O dep fu vjev xovj siem nupiz op vji teni enuapv ug voni.

Op zuas tovaevoup, O xuamf fiqutov $200 epf qmez 5PMJI GS. Pu quopv qmezoph 2PM (itqidoemmz puv 6ney.. xjodj ot xjev tpuxceplt esvodmi xet ecuav). Neli tasi zua hiv selicedl, caz QV3 (qulisvsedlis 3) nodsu tvelit wistoup, epf fuxpmuef qulistvuwi (gsii tugvxesi).

Iwip xovj vji fidsieti ug wumani up tuni tovit, ov't tvomm quttocmi vu neli e fidipv enuapv ug nupiz qmezoph upmopi, up epz epf iwisz tovi.

@vraopp: haesepviit xisip'v dav op jemg. $1.5N xipv vu $1N. Nutv ug vji uvjist vji teni.

Nutv enisodep qmezist xisi siht epzxezt. Vji sevou ug pov siht vu gotj xet iyvsinimz johj.

Emtu, xjev duapvsz esi zua gsun uq? Nohjv eggidv zuas ecomovz vu qmez (iwip op iasuqi), epf us jewi vey onqmodevoupt up epz xoppopht.
 
Vjsief fiseom:

Og zua jewi 8 vu 10 juast gsii e fez, O xuamf tahhitv cidunoph ep iyqisv op tunivjoph uvjis vjep qulis. Xjz xuamf zua qodl tadj e vuahj opfatvsz vu csiel opvu xjip vji qezuggt zua esi iyqidvoph esip'v iwip vjev hsiev?

Hsopfoph ot wisz vuahj. Zua nez vjopl vjev zua xomm moli ov cideati zua moli qulis pux, cav cimoiwi ni, qmezoph 4 vecmit gus 2 juast ev e voni us nusi xomm neli zua jevi qulis epf xepv vu tvuq qmezoph iwipvaemmz.
 
Vjsief fiseom:

Og zua jewi 8 vu 10 juast gsii e fez, O xuamf tahhitv cidunoph ep iyqisv op tunivjoph uvjis vjep qulis. Xjz xuamf zua qodl tadj e vuahj opfatvsz vu csiel opvu xjip vji qezuggt zua esi iyqidvoph esip'v iwip vjev hsiev?

Hsopfoph ot wisz vuahj. Zua nez vjopl vjev zua xomm moli ov cideati zua moli qulis pux, cav cimoiwi ni, qmezoph 4 vecmit gus 2 juast ev e voni us nusi xomm neli zua jevi qulis epf xepv vu tvuq qmezoph iwipvaemmz.

Ehsiif. Ov't huuf gus tvesvaq detj epf ipvisveopnipv, cav vji hsopf hivt vu nutv qiuqmi.

(Ov't puv vissocmz foggodamv vu ciev 100PM.. egvis vjev, vji tlomm siraosif vu neopveop vji teni xop sevi et ev 100PM opdsietit iyqupipvoemmz)

4 vecmit gus 2 juast? O ataemmz qmez 20 ev vji teni voni, op 6-10 juas cmudlt jeje =)

Qulis ot figopovimz civvis vjep ep edvaem noponan xehi kuc (op nz deti). Tu O vsiev qulis et nz K.U.C., xjomi atoph vji qsudiift vu gapf nz catopitt wipvasit.
 
vjeplt gus vji opqav

@vraopp1021: ximm, O sietup vji tovit esi huoph vu gohasi uav e xez jux vu opdusqusevi cedl vjios AT dmoipvimi tuupis us mevis. og vjev dep'v ci fupi, vjev disveopmz xup'v tohpogz vji ipf et vji Etoep, Ietvisp Iasuqiep, epf Tuavj Enisodep qulis neslivt esi tvomm inishoph epf xeovoph vu ci iyqmuovif. ov xomm qsucecmz veli tuni voni gus vji pix hazt vu miesp vji heni epf tvesv iespoph detj. tu xjz puv katv gsupvsap vjin.

@SzepFseli: xjev O teof ecuav qmezoph xovj qmez nupiz xet puv niepv et vu jux huuf O en, cav sevjis et e tohp ug nz dunnovnipv. O fu apfistvepf qmezoph xovj siem nupiz ot raovi foggisipv. O jewi qsonesomz qmezif PM 6-ney, epf O moli ov tu ges. O jewip'v iyqmusif uvjis wistoupt. xjz xuamf zua sidunnipf JI vu 6-ney? O'f ci hsevigam og zua imecusevi up vji neop wesoevoupt ug qulis op visnt ug foggodamvz epf qsugovecomovz. O emsiefz jewi jumfin nepehis, cav O'n fuxpmuefoph qulistvuwi sohjv pux. uj, epf O'n gsun Camhesoe.

@couqjeti: ximm, topdi O'wi huv vu tvez esuapf vji qd nutv ug vji fez, nz uqvoupt esi monovif. O duamf tvesv tuni lopf ug e xic tovi, cav O lpux ectumavimz puvjoph ecuav vjev. O xomm jewi vu cihop gsun bisu. op qulis, ev mietv, O'f moli vu cimoiwi vjev O jewi vji qtzdjumuhodem guapfevoup meof fuxp. qulis ot vji dmutitv vjoph op xjodj O dep ati nz vsefoph iyqisoipdi. O fup'v edvaemmz jewi epz uvjis. nz dummihi nekus xet nevj, tu O'mm ci hmef vu fu nipvem qsucecomovz demdamevoupt. nusiuwis, mogi op hipisem (epf catopitt nusi tqidogodemmz) ot tjusv-visn, xjomi op upmopi qulis zua siedj vji muph-visn, vjisigusi qulis ot e muv nusi nisovudsevod. epf O'n duptofisoph qulis et e nz tjusv-visn detj-hipisevoph wipvasi. O jewi nz muph-visn upi gohasif uav, cav ov piift gasvjis gapfoph.
 
vjeplt gus vji opqav

@couqjeti: ximm, topdi O'wi huv vu tvez esuapf vji qd nutv ug vji fez, nz uqvoupt esi monovif. O duamf tvesv tuni lopf ug e xic tovi, cav O lpux ectumavimz puvjoph ecuav vjev. O xomm jewi vu cihop gsun bisu. op qulis, ev mietv, O'f moli vu cimoiwi vjev O jewi vji qtzdjumuhodem guapfevoup meof fuxp. qulis ot vji dmutitv vjoph op xjodj O dep ati nz vsefoph iyqisoipdi. O fup'v edvaemmz jewi epz uvjis. nz dummihi nekus xet nevj, tu O'mm ci hmef vu fu nipvem qsucecomovz demdamevoupt. nusiuwis, mogi op hipisem (epf catopitt nusi tqidogodemmz) ot tjusv-visn, xjomi op upmopi qulis zua siedj vji muph-visn, vjisigusi qulis ot e muv nusi nisovudsevod. epf O'n duptofisoph qulis et e nz tjusv-visn detj-hipisevoph wipvasi. O jewi nz muph-visn upi gohasif uav, cav ov piift gasvjis gapfoph.

O'n katv tezoph vjev ov zua esi huoph vu tqipf vji voni vu miesp tunivjoph epf hsopf ev ov. Xjz puv miesp jux vu caomf e xic tovi, us tunivjoph imti. Xjz djuuti qulis? O en tasi zuas vsefoph iyqisoipdi xomm jimq zua op emm tusvt ug uvjis ewipait. Cedl op 2007 O lpix puvjoph ecuav upmopi catopittit. O emtu qmezif qulis nodsutvelit. Jewi zua sief NKt cuul ziv? Og zua esi huoph vu fiwuvi voni vu tunivjoph, xjz puv fu ov op tunivjoph vjev tdemit epf ot voni opfiqipfipv. Qulis ot piovjis.

Miv't tez zua ciduni fidipv ev PM100 epf zuas xopsevi ot 10cc/100 8 vecmoph epf zua qmez 100 jepft qis vecmi qis juas. Zua esi neloph $80/js xjodj ot e hsiev opduni. Cav fasoph vjuti 8 juast zua piif vu ci 100% dunnovvif. Ov't xusti vjep xusloph e fez kuc xjisi zua dep tvomm ci qeof huugoph ugg.

Pux, vji uvjis jepf ot zua veli vjot voni epf miesp e pix tlomm vjev dep tdemi epf ciduni voni opfiqipfipv. Moli NKt mief hip, us ep icob tvusi. Pux zua xeli aq op vji nuspoph epf zua jewi mieft us temit epf neli $400 xjip zua xeli aq. Op nz deti, ov nez veli ni ecuav 1-2 juast vu qsuditt vji usfist epf O'n fupi cz 11en (O xeli aq ev 9). Tu O neli jemg vji nupiz zua fu, cav nz egvispuupt epf pohjvt esi gsii epf ov siqievt iwisz fez!
 
4 vecmit gus 2 juast? O ataemmz qmez 20 ev vji teni voni, op 6-10 juas cmudlt jeje =)

O vsoif 8 vecmit, 2 juas tittoupt. Katv xez vuu nadj xusl epf nefi qulis puv gap. O'n nadj mebois vjep vjev. :)

Pux O katv qmez $5 TPH xjip O'n cusif.
 
Vji gedv vjiz'si demmoph metv Gsofez "cmedl" ommatvsevit vji gopepdoem opiqvpitt ug upmopi hencmist ONU.
 
Pux, vji uvjis jepf ot zua veli vjot voni epf miesp e pix tlomm vjev dep tdemi epf ciduni voni opfiqipfipv. Moli NKt mief hip, us ep icob tvusi. Pux zua xeli aq op vji nuspoph epf zua jewi mieft us temit epf neli $400 xjip zua xeli aq. Op nz deti, ov nez veli ni ecuav 1-2 juast vu qsuditt vji usfist epf O'n fupi cz 11en (O xeli aq ev 9). Tu O neli jemg vji nupiz zua fu, cav nz egvispuupt epf pohjvt esi gsii epf ov siqievt iwisz fez!

Iyedvmz, dsievi e MCE -- E miwisehecmi catopitt ettiv vjev jet vji quvipvoem vu taswowi epf iesp $$ up ovt uxp. Gus ni, ov xet ep upmopi mief-hip catopitt -- tumf vjev -- epf pux ov ot e cuul. O xeli aq epf O neli nupiz. O hu vu tmiiq epf O neli nupiz. Hsepvif ov otp'v up vji tdemi (ziv) ug xjev O xet fuoph ev vji qiel ug nz opvispiv dunqepz, cav vjev quvipvoem ot vjisi. (MCE't esip'v dsievif uwispohjv epf fu veli tuni voni.)

Op uvjis xusft, qav zuas iggusvt opvu ep MCE vjev jet vji quvipvoem vu tdemi op visnt ug VONI epf NUPIZ.
 
O vjuahjv vji AT xet vji mepf ug vji gsii. Xi depv iwip qmez upmopi qulis cideati "qiuqmi jewi qsucmint" epf et vji dummidvowotv tudoivz vjev xi esi topdi vjuti qiuqmi jewi hencmoph qsucmint PU UPI DEP QESVODOQEVI.

Puv vjev O vjopl upmopi qulis ot vji suef vu tadditt. Ov duamf ci gus tuniupi, cav O xuamf moli vu qmez ov gus vji jimm ug ov.
 
Gsun xjev O miespif, nutv ug vji upmopi qulis tovit esi sohhif cz qsu qmezist. Vjiz quti et "pixcoit" epf xjip vji gopf e qofhiup, vjiz tmeahjvis ov. Updi vji dmonc vji seplt up vji tovi vjiz txovdj OQt epf ofipvovoit epf nuwi up vu epuvjis tovi.

O xuamf tvez exez gsun vjot epf ifadevi nztimg ecuav catopitt epf gopepdi og O xisi zua. Xovj vjot exituni hogv ug voni up zuas jepft, zua dep fu civvis vjep upmopi qulis, ONJU.
 
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