My progress - mobile apps dev business, online learning, etc.

[RJ the first]

Here's my intro thread.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/software-dev-in-chicago.70118/

I'm a 40s software dev in Chicago. I've been working a slow lane job as a consultant, building enterprise applications for corporations. My main expertise is full stack development and architecture, but in my spare time for the past few years I've been working on mobile apps in my spare time for enjoyment.

This is my progress thread. My original idea was - to start a mobile app development business - developing my own app ideas and making money off them in the app store, and also hiring myself out as a contractor to create mobile apps for small businesses.

In the past month I created 3 mobile apps, about to post them to the store once the graphic designer gets back to me with icons.

Also in the past month, I've decided to expand my focus. I will also be exploring affiliate marketing, ecommerce sites, and creating online learning courses as ways to make extra money.

I love programming mobile apps. But my goal is financial freedom. I'll post my thoughts and progress here as I go on...

 

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[RJ the first]

I did some work yesterday on the mobile apps. I sent the app icon back to the graphic designer for revision. I checked in the 'In app purchases' code. We are realistically less than a week from going live. After a lot of research over the past week, I don't have a lot of hope that they will make money. I basically did these apps with no market research, and I told myself it would just be a 'portfolio building' and 'learning' experience.

Last week I spent an afternoon talking to a well known youtube vlogger and 'business coach'. He advised me that the apps were a tough game to get into - the competition is fierce, and dominated by players with big profits. It's especially tough for someone like me with no advertising knowledge. He advised me that since I'm a software architect by trade, I could leverage my existing technical info to create courses on Udemy. He told me that these were the easiest way to make money for someone like me, they were in fact 20 times easier than making apps.

Yesterday I took an online course on affiliate marketing. It sounds interesting. I'm still thinking about a 'plan'. I'm still wondering - I may be stuck on the idea of mobile apps because I'm a software dev and like coding in Swift and I like building things, not because it is necessarily a good plan to fulfill people's needs or to get to financial freedom.

 

[Scot]

I'm glad it wasnt that easy to talk me out of my business idea.

When it comes down to it.. who will you listen to a "business coach" or the market?

 

[RJ the first]

I'm glad it wasnt that easy to talk me out of my business idea.

When it comes down to it.. who will you listen to a "business coach" or the market?

I think I am going to have to experiment with different business ideas and maybe even pursue a couple at the same time. I think at some point I will know when to focus on something exclusively.

Right now I want to explore building my apps business and also creating online technology courses. Both are in line with my core skill set and will make me more valuable at my day job even if I struggle initially.

 

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[Scot]

Good, just don't let someone talk you out of what could be a profitable venture.

 

[Chazmania]

I agree with Scot. You have a skill set that at least gets you in the game, with a 'puncher's chance' of having success. There's always going to be bigger fish in the sea but I say keep going anyway.

 

[RJ the first]

In the past couple days I've

Finished up some adjusting layouts for iPad versions of the apps.
Rejected app icons, commissioned new ones.
Registered an LLC.

 

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[RJ the first]

Read some books, checked in some code, waiting on LLC paperwork. Got icons back from designer and checked them in. Subscribed to apptopia.

In App Empire he discourages founders from also being programmers. I can see why - you are wearing two hats. And it will be hard to scale the way you want to unless you bring in more people to code. Right now there's not much money so I have to do it myself.

 

[RJ the first]

Still waiting on LLC paperwork to go through.
Taking an ASO and App Marketing online course.
Decided on a soft launch of my app in Canada - once LLC papers and DUNS number are available I will switch my personal Apple Developer account to my company name and do a full launch.

 

[hatzil]

Still waiting on LLC paperwork to go through.
Taking an ASO and App Marketing online course.
Decided on a soft launch of my app in Canada - once LLC papers and DUNS number are available I will switch my personal Apple Developer account to my company name and do a full launch.

Hey RJ I'm starting an app business aswell(outsourcing), I want to recommend these books:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EW78YV4/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20
it may help you(or others) with marketing stuff.
as well as https://www.amazon.com/Fake-Make-How-Prototype-Hours-ebook/dp/B00X8U2BCY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475786409&sr=8-1&keywords=fake it make it - YOU DON'T need to read the entire book. just prototyping with powerpoint is very easy & fast method for prototyping if it fits you.
the first book is a book recommended by people on this forum.

for all the legal purposes, I found this book ( this is an overview ). https://www.amazon.com/Business-Law-Basics-Entrepreneurs-Businesses-ebook/dp/B01F5Y4BLO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475786673&sr=8-1&keywords=james hart

I like to hear from you especially on all the legal stuff since i'm struggling to protect myself,anyway keep updating man!

 

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[RJ the first]

Hey RJ I'm starting an app business aswell(outsourcing), I want to recommend these books:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EW78YV4/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20
it may help you(or others) with marketing stuff.
as well as https://www.amazon.com/Fake-Make-How-Prototype-Hours-ebook/dp/B00X8U2BCY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475786409&sr=8-1&keywords=fake it make it - YOU DON'T need to read the entire book. just prototyping with powerpoint is very easy & fast method for prototyping if it fits you.
the first book is a book recommended by people on this forum.

for all the legal purposes, I found this book ( this is an overview ). https://www.amazon.com/Business-Law-Basics-Entrepreneurs-Businesses-ebook/dp/B01F5Y4BLO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475786673&sr=8-1&keywords=james hart

I like to hear from you especially on all the legal stuff since i'm struggling to protect myself,anyway keep updating man!

Hey hatzil. How is your business going? How many apps do you have? I have about 3-4 ready to be launched but am waiting on legal stuff right now.

Other questions:
-what category are your apps in? Games? I am working on lifestyle apps for positive thinking.
-have you made money yet on apps?
-do you have any suggestions for ad network SDKS? I'm just using adMob right now but plan to use HeyZap as mediation framework and add several other ad networks when I do a full launch (iAd, Chartboost, adColony etc.)
-do you have suggestions for Analytics SDKs - I'm thinking about using Flurry.
-do you go to Upwork for outsourcing? I find it is hit or miss there, I had trouble when I hired a designer to make some UI enhancements
-what have you been doing for marketing that has been effective for you? I'm not really sure how I can market my lifestyle apps, I was thinking Facebook ads first

-what do you think of the chances of an independent mobile app company like yours or mine making it with all the competition in today's App Store? It seems daunting to me, but I've been searching Apptopia and there are quite a few independent developers clearing upwards of $30k a month, some as high as $1m a month for lifestyle apps like 'the holy Bible app' or 'health and nutrition tips'.

 

[hatzil]

Hey hatzil. How is your business going? How many apps do you have? I have about 3-4 ready to be launched but am waiting on legal stuff right now.

Other questions:
-what category are your apps in? Games? I am working on lifestyle apps for positive thinking.
-have you made money yet on apps?
-do you have any suggestions for ad network SDKS? I'm just using adMob right now but plan to use HeyZap as mediation framework and add several other ad networks when I do a full launch (iAd, Chartboost, adColony etc.)
-do you have suggestions for Analytics SDKs - I'm thinking about using Flurry.
-do you go to Upwork for outsourcing? I find it is hit or miss there, I had trouble when I hired a designer to make some UI enhancements
-what have you been doing for marketing that has been effective for you? I'm not really sure how I can market my lifestyle apps, I was thinking Facebook ads first

-what do you think of the chances of an independent mobile app company like yours or mine making it with all the competition in today's App Store? It seems daunting to me, but I've been searching Apptopia and there are quite a few independent developers clearing upwards of $30k a month, some as high as $1m a month for lifestyle apps like 'the holy Bible app' or 'health and nutrition tips'.

I'm currently new to this business, and working on 1 app. before I continue- I need to deal with few legal stuff.
-my app is a niche app, from a field I know for 2 years. I have validated my idea using a prototype I gave to people in this field and tracked their reaction. move than that- this is something i'm planning to use myself. I think games is a risky business, since it's hard to validate it.
-I plan to make money on my app right from the 2 version. ( version 1 is used for beta testers). While this goes on, I'm tracking my users with analytics for 2 reasons:
* To validate my idea, watch what features they want more, what they hate,etc
*Plan B: if i'm running out of cash, I will be in a powerful position to attract investors(I have the statistics, and the development costs is low compared to the growth and value potential)

-I currently not planning on putting ads on my first version, but looking out for it, will love to learn from you.
- They analytics I want to use is something a friends suggested, it is called: Mixpanel
-I want to go to upwork but have issues with my paypal, some how they have technical issue with my paypal. anyway- I tried dribbble.com to find designer and got good offer for 75$/screen, but I'm confused on all the legal stuff since you pay the designer outside of the site. from what I understand by the law the designers work is his work and I need some kind of contract that proves I bought the rights for this work. I think Upwork deal with all these stuff so I don't have to worry about it.
- I believe in organic growth as much as possible(I have low budget,too). before you spend any cash on advertising, who is your audience? are they using any thing where you can reach them with free exposure?- I'm planning on reaching them on forums,youtube reviews,bloggers. also- able them to invite their friends to use the app, etc. ( I suggest reading apprenuer ).
There is also the SEO side- there are ways to make your app get more exposure, if you just use the right keywords, title, author name, get good reviews, etc.
if you're launching few apps, you can market each other from your apps.
make ways for your audience to reach you- fb,instagram,twitter,etc.
get user base- if users can register on your app, this worth a lot.
-well,I think apps are pure fastlane(In terms of growth potential,passive income,etc). BUT- i'm a bit pessimist. there are tons of apps nobody wants/uses and overall there are tons of ways to fail. In my opinion, you need to validate your app as soon as possible, know your audience ( what are they using currently? ),know your competitors, and have a good business plan(how are you planning to profit?), etc.
So I think this is very important to make a good plan/research before you execute.
What helped me the most is documenting my entire process.

 

[RJ the first]

I'm currently new to this business, and working on 1 app. before I continue- I need to deal with few legal stuff.
-my app is a niche app, from a field I know for 2 years. I have validated my idea using a prototype I gave to people in this field and tracked their reaction. move than that- this is something i'm planning to use myself. I think games is a risky business, since it's hard to validate it.
-I plan to make money on my app right from the 2 version. ( version 1 is used for beta testers). While this goes on, I'm tracking my users with analytics for 2 reasons:
* To validate my idea, watch what features they want more, what they hate,etc
*Plan B: if i'm running out of cash, I will be in a powerful position to attract investors(I have the statistics, and the development costs is low compared to the growth and value potential)

-I currently not planning on putting ads on my first version, but looking out for it, will love to learn from you.
- They analytics I want to use is something a friends suggested, it is called: Mixpanel
-I want to go to upwork but have issues with my paypal, some how they have technical issue with my paypal. anyway- I tried dribbble.com to find designer and got good offer for 75$/screen, but I'm confused on all the legal stuff since you pay the designer outside of the site. from what I understand by the law the designers work is his work and I need some kind of contract that proves I bought the rights for this work. I think Upwork deal with all these stuff so I don't have to worry about it.
- I believe in organic growth as much as possible(I have low budget,too). before you spend any cash on advertising, who is your audience? are they using any thing where you can reach them with free exposure?- I'm planning on reaching them on forums,youtube reviews,bloggers. also- able them to invite their friends to use the app, etc. ( I suggest reading apprenuer ).
There is also the SEO side- there are ways to make your app get more exposure, if you just use the right keywords, title, author name, get good reviews, etc.
if you're launching few apps, you can market each other from your apps.
make ways for your audience to reach you- fb,instagram,twitter,etc.
get user base- if users can register on your app, this worth a lot.
-well,I think apps are pure fastlane(In terms of growth potential,passive income,etc). BUT- i'm a bit pessimist. there are tons of apps nobody wants/uses and overall there are tons of ways to fail. In my opinion, you need to validate your app as soon as possible, know your audience ( what are they using currently? ),know your competitors, and have a good business plan(how are you planning to profit?), etc.
So I think this is very important to make a good plan/research before you execute.
What helped me the most is documenting my entire process.

Thanks hatzil. I will definitely read Appreneur. And I may have to check out dribble because I don't think my UI is that great right now. I think ideal would be to find a designer on dribble that's also on Upwork.

How did you go about validating app ideas? Did you do something like a landing page with QuickMVP? I have to start thinking about ideas for next set of apps eventually and was thinking of doing something like that.

I agree about the ASO. I'm taking a course right now so I can do that stuff myself. I mean there's not much to know about keywords and writing description and coming up with a title - you just have to be good at it, and know what works. It's kind of an art.

Do you know of any other forum that is just for app business guys like you and me? Not 'coding' forums per se but forums for buys trying to build businesses.

Please keep in touch on this, it's great to talk to people doing the same thing.

 

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[hatzil]

Thanks hatzil. I will definitely read Appreneur. And I may have to check out dribble because I don't think my UI is that great right now. I think ideal would be to find a designer on dribble that's also on Upwork.

How did you go about validating app ideas? Did you do something like a landing page with QuickMVP? I have to start thinking about ideas for next set of apps eventually and was thinking of doing something like that.

I agree about the ASO. I'm taking a course right now so I can do that stuff myself. I mean there's not much to know about keywords and writing description and coming up with a title - you just have to be good at it, and know what works. It's kind of an art.

Do you know of any other forum that is just for app business guys like you and me? Not 'coding' forums per se but forums for buys trying to build businesses.

Please keep in touch on this, it's great to talk to people doing the same thing.

I agree with you about finding a designer like that, sounds like a smart move.

How I validate- Because I have background in my niche- I know a lot of potential customers. so I thought to just give them the alpha version while I gather statistics. I think there isn't one-solution that fits any app. in my case, the risk of losing 1K$ and time is worth it, since I know my audience very good,have the same problem myself, interviewed,researched,etc . but usually, when approaching another niche without knowing anything about it, I will think of using QuickMVP. but in generall, I will want to try to find the cheapest,fastest way to validate. creativity may be the key here. sometimes even a video explaining your idea and tracking reaction may be a smart move; this is something that I read on the "Lean startup" book.

- nope, don't know any forum,yet.( I didn't searched for)

 

[RJ the first]

I agree with you about finding a designer like that, sounds like a smart move.

How I validate- Because I have background in my niche- I know a lot of potential customers. so I thought to just give them the alpha version while I gather statistics. I think there isn't one-solution that fits any app. in my case, the risk of losing 1K$ and time is worth it, since I know my audience very good,have the same problem myself, interviewed,researched,etc . but usually, when approaching another niche without knowing anything about it, I will think of using QuickMVP. but in generall, I will want to try to find the cheapest,fastest way to validate. creativity may be the key here. sometimes even a video explaining your idea and tracking reaction may be a smart move; this is something that I read on the "Lean startup" book.

- nope, don't know any forum,yet.( I didn't searched for)

I have yet to read that book but it's on the list. I have seen other forums like reddit's entrepreneur and gamedev, gamedev is mainly about programming. And I would like to find one for guys like us that want to grow a business.

 

[Jon L]

just wanted to say 'hi.' I have a custom software company that writes custom business software. App development is so far outside my wheelhouse.
That said, I think you're right about trying a few different things to see what you're most interested in.

I wonder if a niche app might be interesting. For example:

I recently needed to troubleshoot something on my car. I have a $20 device that connects to the OBD2 connector on my car. My phone can connect to this device via a Wifi hotspot built into the device. There are a few apps out there will connect to this "ELM" device. Most suck. The ones that don't are expensive at $10 or so. For a hobbiest, that's more than I wanted to spend.

I WOULD spend $1 or $2 for a month's access to that app, if it were well designed and easy to use. The ones that are that cheap or free are awful.

 

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[RJ the first]

just wanted to say 'hi.' I have a custom software company that writes custom business software. App development is so far outside my wheelhouse.
That said, I think you're right about trying a few different things to see what you're most interested in.

I wonder if a niche app might be interesting. For example:

I recently needed to troubleshoot something on my car. I have a $20 device that connects to the OBD2 connector on my car. My phone can connect to this device via a Wifi hotspot built into the device. There are a few apps out there will connect to this "ELM" device. Most suck. The ones that don't are expensive at $10 or so. For a hobbiest, that's more than I wanted to spend.

I WOULD spend $1 or $2 for a month's access to that app, if it were well designed and easy to use. The ones that are that cheap or free are awful.

There's a way to validate this idea and estimate public interest before undertaking a lengthy and expensive development process. Create a landing page with a service like QuickMVP and use an Adwords campaign to drive users to it. The page should have a form to collect emails of interested users. If you get 200-300 emails per day or so it's a viable product.

 

[Jon L]

There's a way to validate this idea and estimate public interest before undertaking a lengthy and expensive development process. Create a landing page with a service like QuickMVP and use an Adwords campaign to drive users to it. The page should have a form to collect emails of interested users. If you get 200-300 emails per day or so it's a viable product.

I'm not going to pursue it...phone apps aren't my specialty. All yours if you want it.

 

[RJ the first]

Thanks. I have a list of ideas that I'm continually gathering and prioritizing, and that goes on the list!

 

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[RJ the first]

Added Flurry analytics last night and cleaned up the database. Started reading about HeyZap, will probably work on adding HeyZap with adMob today.

Also about 75% of the way through ASO and marketing online course.

 

[fracturize]

Watching this thread,looking forward to updates,and wish you luck!

 

[RJ the first]

Finished ASO course, 4 hours of keyword research, finished adding HeyZap with adMob SDK. Submitted app to the App Store.

 

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[RJ the first]

Registered with and added 6 ad networks to HeyZap.

 

[Andy Black]

Thread title changed as requested by OP.

From:

"My fastlane journey - mobile apps dev, affiliate mkting, e-commerce,online learning etc."​

to:

"My progress - mobile apps dev business, online learning, etc."​

 

[RJ the first]

Hired two contractors to work on next four apps. Still waiting on status of my app approval from Apple. I received my confirmation that my LLC has been formed and my paperwork has gone through. I applied for a D-U-N-S number with Dun & Bradstreet (I need the D-U-N-S number to change my Apple Developer account from my own name to the company name).

 

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[RJ the first]

Problems:

Well my app was rejected - apparently there's an error in iPad due to the way UIAlertController works on iPad screens. I have to fix it today and resubmit.

My contractor quit on me. I had to resubmit the job. I just hired some guy I don't know, I don't know how well he'll do but we'll see I guess.

Still taking 2 courses - finishing up an ASO and marketing course, I also started a Unity course, for later on if I eventually get into games reskinning. That Unity course is huge and should take me a couple months at least.


Fixed the iPad bug, then Apple wrote me back and I had to put a privacy disclaimer for Google AdMob. After another 2+ hours of Apple App Store submission nightmare, I resubmitted the app.

 

[RJ the first]

My 4th Quarter Goals 2016 are:



4th Quarter Goals

1. 4-5 apps in the App Store
2. Establish company legally

• A. File LLC paperwork
• B. Apply for DUNS number
• C. Change Apple Developer account to change name to company name

I realized that I have already basically hit these goals.


My first app is up for submission. I basically have 3 more apps ‘in the can’ right now, that would be ready for submission with less than a days work. I am holding off on submitting the other 3-4 apps right now because:

-I’m waiting on DUNS number to come in so I can change the Apple Developer account to my company name
-I want to have a few weeks of tweaking ASO, keywords, and marketing strategy with the first app before submitting the rest of the apps.
-But this is all ‘process’. The coding of the first series of 5-6 apps is basically done.


I have already spent the money and gotten the LLC paperwork back from the state. We are now a legal entity. There are some items that I still have to do:

-Waiting for DUNS number
-Starting a company checking account and applying for company credit cards
-But this is all ‘process’ - the work here is done and these remaining items can be taken cared of in less than a day or with a few emails.

Other things that I could be doing for 4th Quarter 2016 if I have time: Start coming up with Udemy courses and submit them to make extra income and explore e-learning as a fast lane opportunity. But right now I am really focused on getting this mobile app company off the ground.

 

[RJ the first]

My app was approved after sitting in the queue for three days. I got contractors work back.

 

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[Kubson]

Show the app sir!

 

[RJ the first]

I will after developer name is changed to company name.