Self-identification is destructive. Your identity is not actually yours.

[devine]

Self-identification is destructive. Your identity is not actually "yours".

You don't need to identify yourself as anything. It's a placebo - it doesn't matter.
What really holds a person down is self-identification.

It starts with "My name is", but it absolutely doesn't matter what your name is. Your name is not your substance. It's an attribute for others to identify you.

"I'm 30 years old" - your age is irrelevant. Time has no substance in existence. It doesn't exist - it's a concept. Identifying yourself as something that doesn't exist is a destructive process as it makes you apply attributes to yourself, that have no substance, but change emotional conditions and sense of yourself.

"I'm a good looking person" - it doesn't matter how you look from that perspective. I'm a pretty "good looking" guy with more "aesthetically pleasing body" and genetically I'm "superior" to absolute majority of people.
Doesn't it sound a bit pretentious?
Well, that's because this identification conflicts with your identification. It may or may not be "true" in a certain context, but it is completely irrelevant as long as it not viewed in this certain context.
It doesn't matter how "good" you look in context A if in context B your qualities and attributes have no weight.
Therefore identifying yourself as "good looking" makes absolutely no sense - you live in a number of contexts approaching infinity during your life span.

Identifying contexts will make you perform more effectively than identifying yourself.
This is how our conscious and unconscious function - we process each frame of situation to find similarities between them to develop stronger ability to effectively survive in these situations.

Identifying ourselves is what society teaches us. One who escapes self-identification is by definition above the society, which you can also observe in this very society.

"I'm successful" - is completely irrelevant. The fact that you have succeeded 10 times doesn't actually have anything to do with you succeeding 11th time.
Average person considers precondition, efficiency is in the moment.
You can fail during 99% of your journey, but the last percent will determine your success.
You can play football and lose 0-3 at 85th minute, but win 4-3 in the end.

There is a book called "The power of now", which I don't like.
But what's good in it is its title.
The only thing that matters is the moment called "now".
Once you realize that no future and no past has anything to do with this exact moment you're in - life will change.
It takes time and insane efforts to stop living in reality the way it's commonly perceived. We are taught to live this way from our day 1.
It takes insane efforts to step above your pre-convictions about life.

Copy this writing and put into some file on your computer, one day it will click. Probably you won't even find this thread, but it won't matter. It will change your life and it will get you where you would never be otherwise.

Here is a much more detailed writing where I explain how to apply this concept in real life: The Power of Dedication.

This writing is merely my comment taken from this thread by @AndrewNC: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/who-here-is-still-a-slowlaner-read-this.70781/ which I decided to post on its own, as I find this kind of mindset destructive.
Consider it a food for thought.

 

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[ilrein]

Couldn't disagree more. Eckhart Tolle is an awful subjectivist philosopher who equates egoism (rational self-interest, trusthworthy sensory input from your body) with evil.

Embrace your ego. My identity is all I have. It's all I am. Some minor parts of my identity are transient and in flux, but my integrity and convictions are absolute and immutable. I may learn and evolve everyday, but I will never change from who I truly am -- I'll just be a better of version of him.

 

[devine]

Couldn't disagree more. Eckhart Tolle is an awful subjectivist philosopher who equates egoism (rational self-interest, trusthworthy sensory input from your body) with evil.

I don't care about Eckhart Tolle as this writing has nothing to do with Eckhart Tolle, if you haven't noticed.

Embrace your ego. My identity is all I have. It's all I am.

Says for itself.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

"I'm successful" - is completely irrelevant. The fact that you have succeeded 10 times doesn't actually have anything to do with you succeeding 11th time.

If you gain experience, doesn't it mean you're more likely to succeed the next time around?

 

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[ilrein]

I don't care about Eckhart Tolle as this writing has nothing to do with Eckhart Tolle, if you haven't noticed.


Says for itself.

It has nothing to do except embracing his most significant concepts and referencing his most significant work. I suppose it's easier to just insult people than to consider alternative philosophical ideas. I wouldn't know. I strive for understanding.

Isn't ego so ironic sometimes?

 

[devine]

If you gain experience, doesn't it mean you're more likely to succeed the next time around?

It doesn't matter.

It has nothing to do with your self-identification.

A common reason why people cherish their previous achievements is that it helps them feel better and be more productive in their new pursuits. It's perceived as a strong boost.
Indeed, it's like a kick in the a$$ to run faster. It's a 5 kmph boost for your running.

Consider taking a ride and move 150 kmph faster.

It has nothing to do except embracing his most significant concepts and referencing his most significant work.

It has nothing to do with any of his concepts. The fact that you have stumbled upon some words that seem familiar doesn't mean that it's the same thing.

The one who cannot tell the difference between shades of grey will not tell the difference between black and white.

I suppose it's easier to just insult people than to consider alternative philosophical ideas. I wouldn't know. I strive for understanding.

Do you consider underlining my own words and quoting yours an insult?
As you said, ego is so ironic indeed.


By the way, I cannot see any statement regarding any alternative philosophical idea from you.
Also, in case you strive for understanding, consider trying to understand what you read first.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

It doesn't matter.

It has nothing to do with your self-identification. A common reason why people cherish their previous achievements is that it helps them feel better and be more productive in their new pursuits. It's perceived as a strong boost.
Indeed, it's like a kick in the a$$ to run faster. It's a 5 kmph boost for your running.

Consider taking a ride and move 150 kmph faster.

So you shouldn't feel confident that you'll succeed an 11th time, even though you have 10 under your belt?

 

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[devine]

So you shouldn't feel confident that you'll succeed an 11th time, even though you have 10 under your belt?

You should feel confident no matter how much success is under your belt.
As I said, it's like a 5kmph boost compared to 150kmph faster vehicle (You).

I realize that it seems a thing that is only easy to say: "Take a faster ride!", but once you stop thinking of yourself as some kind of identity - you'll start moving faster immediately.
Your identity is for others to perceive you, not for you to perceive yourself.
You'll never want to get back.

 

[jsk29]

Interesting timing to have discovered this thread.

I've recently finished reading a book called Turning The Mind Into An Ally by Sakyong Mipham

Here are of the notes I took:

We suffer because we want life to be different from what it is

We suffer because we try to make pleasurable what is painful, to make solid what is fluid, to make permanent what is always changing.

We're bewildered and suffering because we take ourselves so seriously.  The fact is that what happens to us as a solid reality is actually in a state of continuous flux.

It's just as absurd to think we have a self.  Yet we spend our lives clinging to an imaginary identity cobbled together from different thoughts and concepts, trying to keep it happy, and that is why we suffer.

The bewildered mind is weak because it is continually distracted.  It's distracted by the overriding need to maintain the comfort of "me"

What makes us happy and what makes us sad come down to volatile outer conditions, circumstances, that are constantly changing.  This adds up to bewilderment and suffering for us.

"True liberation is life without the illusion of 'me'  - or 'you'."


Meditation allows us to relax our grip on "me" because we're able to see the thoughts not so much as our personal identity, but more as effects of the speed of our mind.


The suffering created by hope and fear routinely clouds our perception of what is happening in the present moment.


We're busy spinning out best and worst-case scenarios, rather than relaxing where we are.


Our root fantasy is that "I" am real and that there's a way to make "me" happy.  The reason we meditate is to let that fantasy unravel.


After a while, we notice that much of what we took to be real and permanent about ourselves isn't so solid – it's a string of thoughts we hold together with tremendous effort.  We've built an identity out of a thin web of concepts.

We organize our life around the concept of a solid self in a solid world, even though all of it is simply ideas and forms coming in and out of existence, like thousands of stars flickering in the night.  Is there anything that is not impermanent?


Understanding the meaning of impermanence makes us less desperate people.  It gives us dignity.  We no longer grasp at pleasure, trying to squeeze out every last drop.  We no longer consider pain something we should fear, deny and avoid.  We know that it will change.

Samsara isn't a place, it's an attitude:  "I'm real and everything's for me."  When we become aware of this attitude and what creates it, we can start to change it.


What creates samsara is that we keep trying to get pleasure by engaging in nonvirtuous activity resulting from bewilderment, fixation, desire, aggression, jealousy and pride.  This leads not to pleasure but to suffering.


Suffering is the karma of nonvirtuous activity.  Karma means "action."


Whatever happens is the result of many causes and conditions.  Who grew the apple we eat?  Who picked it?  Who delivered it to the grocery store?  Karma makes the world go round.

The more self-involved we are, the more anger, jealousy, pride, and other traumatic emotions we have.


Whenever we seek more self-satisfaction, we end up with more suffering, from minor to extreme.


Love is the wish for others to be happy, for them to accomplish whatever their mind desires – whether it's material or mental – whatever they wish for in order to be fulfilled.


"Until all beings achieve the level of a buddha, I will be courageous in working for the happiness of others."  This expresses the motivation of the bodhisattva warrior, one who vows to develop his enlightened mind in order to help others.


The mind of enlightenment emerges whenever we find ourselves wishing for someone else's happiness without wanting anything in return.


This shift is sparked by seeing that the habit of always thinking of ourselves only keeps us unhappy.  To extend outselves to others is the route to true happiness.

"If you want to be miserable, think about yourself.  If you want to be happy, think of others."

Generosity, patience, exertion, discipline, meditation and prajna are the enlightened activities of the warrior bodhisattva.

 

[jsk29]

Continued:

Continuously offering in the spirit of generosity enriches the discipline of nonattachment.  Discipline in keeping our heart and mind open increases patience.  Having patience gives staying power to execution.  Acting with joyful exertion for the benefit of others strengthens meditation.  The mind of meditation sharpens prajna, which sees things as they are.

Prajna ("insight", "intuitive apprehension") use the other activities to keep activating bodhichitta, our lightest mind.  It's light because it lacks the reference point of a self.  This also gives us a sense of humor.  

We can visualize ourselves sitting tall in the saddle of patience astride the horse of meditation.  Our eyes are the eyes of discipline.  Close to our heart rests the treasure of generosity.  We are protected by the armor of exertion, and in our right hand we hold the gleaming sword of prajna.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I've noticed there have been a lot of people starting to meditate and it's become more of a mainstream thing.

From a fastlane perspective, this is great as practicing meditation gradually (and counter-intuitively) takes your mind off your "self" and focuses it on others.

Which aligns perfectly with the "follow the needs of others and create value" mindset

 

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[Yoda]

"To really live, that is to find life reasonably satisfying, you must have an adequate and realistic self image that you can live with. You must find your self acceptable to "you." You must have a wholesome self-esteem. You must have a self that you can trust and believe in. You must have a self you are not ashamed to "be," and one that you can feel free to express creatively, rather than to hide or cover up. You must have a self that corresponds to reality so that you can function effectively in a real world. You must know yourself--both your strengths and your weakness and be honest with yourself concerning both. Your self-image must be a reasonable approximation of "you," being neither more than your are, or less than you are."

--Carol Dweck​

 

[ApparentHorizon]

You should feel confident no matter how much success is under your belt.
As I said, it's like a 5kmph boost compared to 150kmph faster vehicle (You).

I realize that it seems a thing that is only easy to say: "Take a faster ride!", but once you stop thinking of yourself as some kind of identity - you'll start moving faster immediately.
Your identity is for others to perceive you, not for you to perceive yourself.
You'll never want to get back.

What does speed have to do with leveraging your previous successes? Execution speed and success can correlate, but let's put that aside for now.

When you have wins, when you have momentum, your state of mind is elevated to a higher level. We're analogous - even the most successful has their own troughs and peaks.

It's similar to doubling down on your strengths...double down on your wins.

 

[devine]

Interesting timing to have discovered this thread.

I've recently finished reading a book called Turning The Mind Into An Ally by Sakyong Mipham

Here are of the notes I took:

We suffer because we want life to be different from what it is

We suffer because we try to make pleasurable what is painful, to make solid what is fluid, to make permanent what is always changing.

We're bewildered and suffering because we take ourselves so seriously.  The fact is that what happens to us as a solid reality is actually in a state of continuous flux.

It's just as absurd to think we have a self.  Yet we spend our lives clinging to an imaginary identity cobbled together from different thoughts and concepts, trying to keep it happy, and that is why we suffer.

The bewildered mind is weak because it is continually distracted.  It's distracted by the overriding need to maintain the comfort of "me"

What makes us happy and what makes us sad come down to volatile outer conditions, circumstances, that are constantly changing.  This adds up to bewilderment and suffering for us.

"True liberation is life without the illusion of 'me'  - or 'you'."


Meditation allows us to relax our grip on "me" because we're able to see the thoughts not so much as our personal identity, but more as effects of the speed of our mind.


The suffering created by hope and fear routinely clouds our perception of what is happening in the present moment.


We're busy spinning out best and worst-case scenarios, rather than relaxing where we are.


Our root fantasy is that "I" am real and that there's a way to make "me" happy.  The reason we meditate is to let that fantasy unravel.


After a while, we notice that much of what we took to be real and permanent about ourselves isn't so solid – it's a string of thoughts we hold together with tremendous effort.  We've built an identity out of a thin web of concepts.

We organize our life around the concept of a solid self in a solid world, even though all of it is simply ideas and forms coming in and out of existence, like thousands of stars flickering in the night.  Is there anything that is not impermanent?


Understanding the meaning of impermanence makes us less desperate people.  It gives us dignity.  We no longer grasp at pleasure, trying to squeeze out every last drop.  We no longer consider pain something we should fear, deny and avoid.  We know that it will change.

Samsara isn't a place, it's an attitude:  "I'm real and everything's for me."  When we become aware of this attitude and what creates it, we can start to change it.


What creates samsara is that we keep trying to get pleasure by engaging in nonvirtuous activity resulting from bewilderment, fixation, desire, aggression, jealousy and pride.  This leads not to pleasure but to suffering.


Suffering is the karma of nonvirtuous activity.  Karma means "action."


Whatever happens is the result of many causes and conditions.  Who grew the apple we eat?  Who picked it?  Who delivered it to the grocery store?  Karma makes the world go round.

The more self-involved we are, the more anger, jealousy, pride, and other traumatic emotions we have.


Whenever we seek more self-satisfaction, we end up with more suffering, from minor to extreme.


Love is the wish for others to be happy, for them to accomplish whatever their mind desires – whether it's material or mental – whatever they wish for in order to be fulfilled.


"Until all beings achieve the level of a buddha, I will be courageous in working for the happiness of others."  This expresses the motivation of the bodhisattva warrior, one who vows to develop his enlightened mind in order to help others.


The mind of enlightenment emerges whenever we find ourselves wishing for someone else's happiness without wanting anything in return.


This shift is sparked by seeing that the habit of always thinking of ourselves only keeps us unhappy.  To extend outselves to others is the route to true happiness.

"If you want to be miserable, think about yourself.  If you want to be happy, think of others."

Generosity, patience, exertion, discipline, meditation and prajna are the enlightened activities of the warrior bodhisattva.

First of all, thank you for writing this. You have a great writing ability
It's a true pleasure to read, It seems like we are very different from the way we deliver our thoughts, and I have always wanted to be influenced by this kind of personal approach.
It's so rare.

What inspired you to dive more into meditation? Can you tell about your experience?

 

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[devine]

What does speed have to do with leveraging your previous successes? Execution speed and success can correlate, but let's put that aside for now.

When you have wins, when you have momentum, your state of mind is elevated to a higher level. We're analogous - even the most successful has their own troughs and peaks.

It's similar to doubling down on your strengths...double down on your wins.

I don't talk about execution speed, I talk about our efficiency.
There is a huge difference between identifying yourself with your success and developing qualities that allowed you to achieve it in the first place and which might be necessary for further achievements.

This thread is not about doubling down on our strenghts. It's about doubling our strenghts.
It's not about doubling down on our wins. It's about doubling our wins.
See the difference?

 

[socaldude]

I think we all have to have an identity. But the key would be for that identity to be free from external influences.

Independence is intrinsically a fastlane value. And one that I think leads to happiness and healthy self-esteem.

Do you really think you will ever be a successful inventor if you never think for yourself? If you are constantly looking outwards for solutions and answers? No way.

Its like the person who attaches their self-esteem to their Mercedes C-class, 5 bedroom home and Job. They will never have true self-esteem because they will never look for it "inwards".

99% of people in society have values that have been externally dictated to them while growing up and are not even aware of it. It's very powerful.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

I don't talk about execution speed, I talk about our efficiency.
There is a huge difference between identifying yourself with your success and developing qualities that allowed you to achieve it in the first place and which might be necessary for further achievements.

This thread is not about doubling down on our strenghts. It's about doubling our strenghts.
It's not about doubling down on our wins. It's about doubling our wins.
See the difference?

Which is easier, more efficient, and faster?

Taking your lawn mowing business, and double the revenue - or - starting a completely new business that reaches the same rev?

 

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[devine]

To really live, that is to

1) Distructively framed limitation.

to find life reasonably satisfying

2) Depressive frame of mind that results in needy attitude to life and needy place in life. Need is the opposite of abundance.

you must have an adequate and realistic self image that you can live with

3) Self-detachment and dismemberment of yourself as a whole.

You must find your self acceptable to "you".

4) You are always you, one and whole, with only one self. Accept it or not.

You must have a wholesome self-esteem. You must have a self that you can trust and believe in. You must have a self you are not ashamed to "be".

3, 4.

and one that you can feel free to express creatively, rather than to hide or cover up.

3, 4.

You must have a self that corresponds to reality so that you can function effectively in a real world.

1, 3, 4.

You must know yourself--both your strengths and your weakness and be honest with yourself concerning both

Partially yes, partially: useless self-jerking.

Your self-image must be a reasonable approximation of "you," being neither more than your are, or less than you are.

3, 4.

I highlighted each time this person tells you "You must".
And each time I repeat things I gave definition to previously, they get worse and worse.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read, honestly. Not to mention that half of this bullshit borderlines with contradicting psychiatry.
I find it disastrous that a person that has no record of anything but writing questionable books on motivation allows herself to say such destructive things with "You must" prefix, especially having PhD and working with fragile minds of people.

Everytime someone tells you what you must or must not do, especially when it comes to your life and yourself - it's a big red flag, especially when they tell you such destructive things.
You don't know their life. You don't know who they substantially are and how they feel.
They know nothing about you either and no PhD can allow them to throw such statements around.

 

[devine]

I think we all have to have an identity. But the key would be for that identity to be free from external influences.

Independence is intrinsically a fastlane value. And one that I think leads to happiness and healthy self-esteem.

Do you really think you will ever be a successful inventor if you never think for yourself? If you are constantly looking outwards for solutions and answers? No way.

Its like the person who attaches their self-esteem to their Mercedes C-class, 5 bedroom home and Job. They will never have true self-esteem because they will never look for it "inwards".

99% of people in society have values that have been externally dictated to them while growing up and are not even aware of it. It's very powerful.

Exactly.
People's sense of themself is heavily affected by things that have nothing to do with their substance.

Which is easier, more efficient, and faster?

Taking your lawn mowing business, and double the revenue - or - starting a completely new business that reaches the same rev?

Double revenue, start new business and do anything else easier, faster and more efficiently.
There is no comparison.

 

[ApparentHorizon]

Double revenue, start new business and do anything else easier, faster and more efficiently.
There is no comparison.

Why is that?

 

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[ilrein]

Why is that?

How the hell would I know?

Who the F*ck am I even?

Is there even an I to begin with?

Thank the Lord (read: my philosophical mind) that I developed a sense of identity that protects me from destructive attitudes masquerading as spirituality.

 

[devine]

Why is that?

Because that's not what this thread is about. Consider re-reading it.

 

[jsk29]

First of all, thank you for writing this. You have a great writing ability
It's a true pleasure to read, It seems like we are very different from the way we deliver our thoughts, and I have always wanted to be influenced by this kind of personal approach.
It's so rare.

What inspired you to dive more into meditation? Can you tell about your experience?

Now I feel embarrassed lol. The notes I took are not my words, they're directly from the book I read (Turning The Mind Into An Ally) and are the words of Sakyong Mipham, who is the head of the Shambhala Buddhist lineage.

As for my personal experience with meditation, I've been meditating for about 6 years now.

I was always interested in self development since my teens and my meditation habit began when I stumbled upon a copy of Mindfulness in Plain English.

Over the years it's been the number one habit that's kept me grounded and calm during hard times (a close second is working out).

Also, I've had a highly dysfunctional childhood and meditation has helped me more than the dozens of psychology and therapy books I've read.

I'm no zen master (though there were a couple of moments where I thought "I'm enlightened!") but my steady practice has led to increased focus, clarity of thought, detachment from strong emotions, calmness during 'emergency' events, and greater awareness of my ego and how it distorts the present moment.

Hope that helps!

P.S. I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of Turning The Mind Into An Ally, the notes I shared above only convey like 20% of the value

 

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[ApparentHorizon]

Because that's not what this thread is about. Consider re-reading it.

It's literally what half of your OP is about. You switch your premise from ignoring self identity, to ignoring reality altogether.

Consider revising the latter half, so you don't end up in the "now" exactly like "We are taught to live this way from our day 1."

 

[devine]

Now I feel embarrassed lol. The notes I took are not my words, they're directly from the book I read (Turning The Mind Into An Ally) and are the words of Sakyong Mipham, who is the head of the Shambhala Buddhist lineage.

As for my personal experience with meditation, I've been meditating for about 6 years now.

I was always interested in self development since my teens and my meditation habit began when I stumbled upon a copy of Mindfulness in Plain English.

Over the years it's been the number one habit that's kept me grounded and calm during hard times (a close second is working out).

Also, I've had a highly dysfunctional childhood and meditation has helped me more than the dozens of psychology and therapy books I've read.

I'm no zen master (though there were a couple of moments where I thought "I'm enlightened!") but my steady practice has led to increased focus, clarity of thought, detachment from strong emotions, calmness during 'emergency' events, and greater awareness of my ego and how it distorts the present moment.

Hope that helps!

P.S. I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of Turning The Mind Into An Ally, the notes I shared above only convey like 20% of the value

I don't talk about quotes from the book, but about your input

I'm getting both books after posting this. Will write you a message when I'll be home.

It's literally what half of your OP is about. You switch your premise from ignoring self identity, to ignoring reality altogether.

Consider revising the latter half, so you don't end up in the "now" exactly like "We are taught to live this way from our day 1."

No it's not. And there is not a single word about ignoring reality. There is also nothing about ignoring self-identity, it's about not identifying yourself in the first place, especially with things that have no substance.
Ignoring what is there, and not attaching something that has no substance to your perception of yourself is two completely different things.

To avoid further misunderstanding:
"Stop living in reality the way it's commonly perceived"
doesn't equal
"stop living in reality"

It reminds me a following situation:
"Quit 9-to-5"
"But how to make living then?"

You got my analogy.
It's difficult to view a world differently from how you're used to it. By thinking inside the box you won't understand concepts that lay outside the box.

 

[raden1]

Now I feel embarrassed lol. The notes I took are not my words, they're directly from the book I read (Turning The Mind Into An Ally) and are the words of Sakyong Mipham, who is the head of the Shambhala Buddhist lineage.

As for my personal experience with meditation, I've been meditating for about 6 years now.

I was always interested in self development since my teens and my meditation habit began when I stumbled upon a copy of Mindfulness in Plain English.

Over the years it's been the number one habit that's kept me grounded and calm during hard times (a close second is working out).

Also, I've had a highly dysfunctional childhood and meditation has helped me more than the dozens of psychology and therapy books I've read.

I'm no zen master (though there were a couple of moments where I thought "I'm enlightened!") but my steady practice has led to increased focus, clarity of thought, detachment from strong emotions, calmness during 'emergency' events, and greater awareness of my ego and how it distorts the present moment.

Hope that helps!

P.S. I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of Turning The Mind Into An Ally, the notes I shared above only convey like 20% of the value

I've read Turning The Mind Into An Ally and also recommend. Another one I would recommend is The Mind Illuminated. I'm about 10-20% through it, as I only go on so far as the chapters are relevant to where I am at in my meditation. Though reading Turning The Mind Into An Ally first might be a better idea.

I guess, technically no one exists. If we are going about this as an ego conversation, but for the sake of simple communication we do have our labels.

"What do you do for a living?"
"OH such a silly question! You presume I exist! Do I do a living? Or does a living do me? You and your silly belief in your ego! It's all a sham! Reality doesn't exist!"
VS.
"Oh, I'm a painter."

The point @devine is trying to make, I believe, is you are not your "bad" labels. Just as if a painter loses his brush and he can no longer paint, the label (identity) of the painter dies. But the thing "behind" or "before" the painter (the person) still lives.

So if we are gonna' have to live with our "egos" and labels" (most of us unenlightened folk are), might as well make them good.

One could argue why some of the self-improvement stuff is so hard. Part of the "bad" parts of our ego or identity has to die for the good to exist.
Even if it is a bad identity, it is still a rock that we embed our sense of self in, and if the bad part of that rock gets chipped away it can make us uncomfortable. It is still a part of us that is dying. Death of any kind (ego or body), is the thing most people run from.



P.S Alan Watts is a cool dude on youtube about this stuff.

 

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[Demigod]

Self-identification is destructive. Your identity is not actually "yours".

You don't need to identify yourself as anything. It's a placebo - it doesn't matter.
What really holds a person down is self-identification.

It starts with "My name is", but it absolutely doesn't matter what your name is. Your name is not your substance. It's an attribute for others to identify you.

"I'm 30 years old" - your age is irrelevant. Time has no substance in existence. It doesn't exist - it's a concept. Identifying yourself as something that doesn't exist is a destructive process as it makes you apply attributes to yourself, that have no substance, but change emotional conditions and sense of yourself.

"I'm a good looking person" - it doesn't matter how you look from that perspective. I'm a pretty "good looking" guy with more "aesthetically pleasing body" and genetically I'm "superior" to absolute majority of people.
Doesn't it sound a bit pretentious?
Well, that's because this identification conflicts with your identification. It may or may not be "true" in a certain context, but it is completely irrelevant as long as it not viewed in this certain context.
It doesn't matter how "good" you look in context A if in context B your qualities and attributes have no weight.
Therefore identifying yourself as "good looking" makes absolutely no sense - you live in a number of contexts approaching infinity during your life span.

Identifying contexts will make you perform more effectively than identifying yourself.
This is how our conscious and unconscious function - we process each frame of situation to find similarities between them to develop stronger ability to effectively survive in these situations.

Identifying ourselves is what society teaches us. One who escapes self-identification is by definition above the society, which you can also observe in this very society.

"I'm successful" - is completely irrelevant. The fact that you have succeeded 10 times doesn't actually have anything to do with you succeeding 11th time.
Average person considers precondition, efficiency is in the moment.
You can fail during 99% of your journey, but the last percent will determine your success.
You can play football and lose 0-3 at 85th minute, but win 4-3 in the end.

There is a book called "The power of now", which I don't like.
But what's good in it is its title.
The only thing that matters is the moment called "now".
Once you realize that no future and no past has anything to do with this exact moment you're in - life will change.
It takes time and insane efforts to stop living in reality the way it's commonly perceived. We are taught to live this way from our day 1.
It takes insane efforts to step above your pre-convictions about life.

Copy this writing and put into some file on your computer, one day it will click. Probably you won't even find this thread, but it won't matter. It will change your life and it will get you where you would never be otherwise.

Here is a much more detailed writing where I explain how to apply this concept in real life: The Power of Dedication.

This writing is merely my comment taken from this thread by @AndrewNC: https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/community/threads/who-here-is-still-a-slowlaner-read-this.70781/ which I decided to post on its own, as I find this kind of mindset destructive.
Consider it a food for thought.

I very much disagree. While it's a fair point to make that we are limited by our self descriptive emotions and words, there's little to prove that it's destructive from what you've said. The greatest of achievers and seducers have always had a sense of self... An identity that they either moulded along the way or were taught. In essence you make us seem like mere survivors in this existence - So how come we seek to have purpose? If we are nothing, what makes us build things?

You have a book. You talk of living in the present. I'll refer you to someone who lived that way in history. His name was Casanova. Far from a mere philosophist, the man was a hedonist, who was always in tune with his very present "self". I would not bother reading your book as you obviously could not impress your reader as much as Casanova did in his memoirs. Therefore your concept is not even fully understood by you so you're not an authority in the area.

Forgive the scorching remarks but I'm sleepy right now. Hope you do get this in the right light.

Enjoy.

 

[Paul Thomas]

This is an interesting concept and I agree. I think many unexperienced people slowly build themselves up in their mind as something that they are not - and don't realize that they are just lying to themselves. I think this is why books like Think and Grow Rich can be dangerous if they are grasped in the wrong way. If you visualize yourself as something you are not, it can be self deluding, if you being to identify with that image without having the actual experience.

This is a complex subject but I'll try to give an example (not sure if this is what you're touching upon)...

Fastlane Example: someone sells $3,000 worth of private label product on Amazon and begins to think in their mind that they are an entrepreneur. Since they believe in their mind they are an entrepreneur, they start to filter everything they see and do through that mindset, and since they are "so experienced" they close themselves off to the possibility of learning something they did not know. They get too big for their britches and make bets on products that just won't work but if they were still open minded to the fact that they don't know anything this could've been stopped. If this person was to realize that what he did was a great mental experience towards further action, but he still knows nothing, he'd be able to continually improve. Does this make sense?

I read a book recently that hammered this point home called "Ego is the Enemy", which is a great book if you are ready to grasp the concepts. It talks about how people self delude themselves into a "self-concept", and it is damaging them whether they realize it or not.

When Rockefeller was young, he caught himself deluding himself and built up a routine early to stop himself from screwing himself over, he would tell himself on a daily basis that he is still learning.

"Because you have got a start, you think you are quite a merchant; look out, or you will lose your head—go steady. Are you going to let this money puff you up? Keep your eyes open. Don't lose your balance." - Rockefeller

I love discussing this subject and think there many other perspectives to bring... the topic can be spiritual, logical, or a mix of both.

 

[Paul Thomas]

A more logical perspective comes from Albert Ellis who founded Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy - and describes "self-esteem" as the greatest emotional disturbance known to man and woman.

He proposes a a new philosophy called unconditional self acceptance, here's a good intro to it in these two quotes:

"The human being is fully and unconditionally acceptable in his own right as a unique and singular person; that he always has value to himself for so long as he is alive; and that his intrinsic worth, or self-value, need not depend in any way upon his extrinsic value, or worth to others."

From self esteem to unconditional self acceptance

"The internal dialogue changes from “I am a good person because I do good things” or “I am a bad person because I do bad things”, to “I am person who does both good and bad things, neither of which will I use to rate or measure my individual worth."

From this philosophy you cannot have self confidence, only confidence in your abilities.

 

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