Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong?

[speed-racer]

Hello.

For the past several years, I have been plagued with what might be considered a 'guilty conscious' and I haven't been able to shake this, although I think I'm right.


Here's what happened...

One of my close relatives asked me what I was, in essence, working on in my business. I told her I was designing a company that was essentially 'humanless.'

I was taken aback with her reaction -- that I was 'taking away jobs.'

I proceeded to explain to tell her that I didn't see it that way -- I was trying to maximize profits and that adding people would pull away from my company's profits.

I then noticed her reaction over the phone -- one that I had never heard before and I have not been able to shake since. In my mind, I had to proceed with my mission because I thought and still think, it makes good business sense.

One thing I did say to her was, that if she ever became an entrepreneur, she would most likely, try to find ways to maximize her profits, too. And most likely, she'd find that she needed to hire less people to make that happen in order for her business to survive and prosper...


I don't know to this day if she accepted that, and that conversation still really bothers me.

~~~~

Q: Am I wrong and am I using some immoral judgment in this case just because I want to (am) create an organization that maximizes profits or is making profits just plain 'bad' because a virtual organization creates very few jobs?


Please help me out here. This has been going on in my head for nearly 7 or 8 years.

Thanks.

 

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[moop]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

The purpose of hiring people is to detach your self from certain tasks in the business so you can focus on more important tasks, such as expansion and revenue growth. If you can automate your companay with computer systems, that's great. Hiring people purely for the sake of hiring people is counter productive and negatively affects your revenue.

Take digg.com for example. The company has gigantic website traffic but fails to make profitable revenue. A lot of people speculate digg employs far too many unnecessary people (over 70 people) as the website is almost entirely community driven.

Then you have websites like plentyoffish. They make millions of dollars in revenue, which is largely due to their efficient automated systems.

 

[FDJustin]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

No.


...

Ok, let me put it this way. The point of it all is to live your life the way you want to live it. You are the one taking risks, putting in the effort, seeking your dreams. If that happens to give someone else a livelihood, good on them. No one should expect you to provide for anyone but your pets, kids, and maybe even parents.

Figure out what you feel guilty about. Is it her disgust... Or did she actually shake your belief that what your doing is a good idea?

Once you know.. You'll have to either figure out how to not care so strongly about her disapproval, or reaffirm your belief that enriching your own life is a good thing.

I'm not too sure how to go about them. Uhm... Maybe for the former you could start by answering yourself these simple questions:

• Do I want approval, or do I want success?
  
• Do I want my own beliefs?
  
• Can I allow myself to make my own choice?

Commit to changing those answers to success, yes, and yes again. If you already have those answers, commit to standing by them.

If you want something spiritual, you just need an object that's sympathetic to the guilt. Since guilt weighs you down and holds you back, a stone would do well. Take the stone and literally push the feeling of your guilt into it. The guilt isn't allowed to live inside of you, it's new home is that stone. Now bury it, or throw it away. If you have a god, pray and ask for the right to do this. Whenever this guilt creeps back into you, firmly tell it to go home.

Addendum: You can't take away jobs that were never created.

 

[Jonleehacker]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

What's interesting here is not whether or not you should create a company that doesn't have any (or many) employees, but why you can't come to terms with it.

It isn't your actions in building your company that will resolve the issue for you, it is your relationship with your own heart.

Either you need to let go of being so affected by this person thinks or you need to let go of running a business for pure profit motive, or something else entirely, but in any case, there is a great lesson in here for you somewhere.

Create an openness to receive it, it will be in your long term good to come to terms with this, even if it takes your company in a direction that may not seem to maximize profits, or it takes your relationships in a direction that creates short term tensions.

Good on you for being aware enough to continue to wrestle with an issue like this for so long, most people just medicate these kind of thoughts out of their awareness.

 

[throttleforward]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

You have touched on one of the largest problems with the United States today, and the reason why so many people fail to understand: 1. the fastlane mindset, 2. how our government works, and 3. how the world economy works (or perhaps should work)

The ONLY reason that for-profit businesses exist is to increase shareholder value. PERIOD.

If your purpose as a business is not to increase sharehold value, you are a CHARITY or a NON-PROFIT.

This is a very hard and confusing lession for many people to learn. I believe that most people's lack of understanding with this concept is why they get stuck in the slowlane. If people are unable to realize that businesses have no other purpose than to make money, than they will fail to understand why they don't take altruistic measures to create jobs, they fail to understand that no one deserves a job, and they fail to understand how they too can create something that is profitable.

I firmly believe that as we grow up, people (who are overwhelmingly taught to go to school, get good grades, go to a better school, get (NOT CREATE) a good job, save your money, retire) that as they grow up, they accept certain functions of our society as unquestionable fact. People don't think that, for instance, Coca-Cola is a company, they see it is an everpresent entity. I remember when I was younger thinking "everyone know who and what coke is, so why do they advertise?" I failed to realize that because Coke was a business, they operated to increase their value and undercut their competators, and therefore were trying to beat companies like Pepsi. In my mind, Coke and Pepsi just peacefully coexisted as the sodas everyone knew about, because when WASN'T there Coke and Pepsi?

I think the same thing will happen to our most current generation and Google/Yahoo. There will be a time in the near future that the vast majority of people will think of internet search as a god-given function of computers. They will never realize that someone actually INVENTED internet search, and that companies attempt to beat eachother at internet search. They will have difficultly conceiving of a world without Google and Yahoo. Sure, they will nod when they are told, but it won't really sink in, because they don't see the world through the same glasses we do. They don't realize that everything around them is made, produced, or invented by companies, which a. care about profits more than anything else, and b. can go out of existance.

Which brings me to my final point - jobs. People are sold on the idea that if they do x, then y, then z, then they will get a job. It creates a sense of entitlement and stiffles creativity. It makes people think that if they do all the right things, they will get a job, and therefore money, and therefore a lifestyle (and not too much of a lifestyle either, people believe there is a max amount of money they can make in their lives on a per year basis based on how well they did x, y, and z). Therefore, they can't understand why minimizing jobs actually increases the overall quality of life (over the short term anyway). They feel that it is a company's moral duty to provide jobs, because they were always taught that a company's purpose is to provide jobs, not to make money. Instead of venting their frustrations on the entities which encourage and incentivize the shipping of jobs (the government), they vent to the companies as being "greedy" and "unpatriotic". Of course, the huge irony is that the 401k that they depend on for their retirement (that their company set up and that their company probably donated some sort of matching contribution for) is completely and utterly dependent on huge companies remaining profitable by firing people and shipping jobs overseas or eliminating them through automation. They also fail to understand why it's wrong to buy at WalMart instead of the local store with poorer selection and 3x's higher prices.

Also, they think that its somewhat unfair for business owners to make too much money. Afterall, the x+y+z formula only allows for a certain amount of money to be made per year, and if you are over that by more than one standard deviation, you should be OK with taking less salary so that others can have more. Ironically, those who follow the xyz forumla to perfection, people like (some) doctors, lawyers, and investment bankers, are still hated by society. So if a business owner, who makes 2mil per year, says to his employees and community that he is cutting jobs because it will make his company (and therefore him) more profitable, than people will get angry because they feel that he either a. shouldn't try to be more profitable, because the purpose of a business is to create jobs and not to create value, and 2. if you make 2 million/year, and you are going to cut jobs, you should instead take 50k/year like they do and save jobs.

Sorry to be so long winded, I just feel very passionately about this issue. If you want me to write another book on why the government and global economy is to blame for job loss (but eventually job creation), I'd be happy to

 

[Niche]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

Hmmm. It's not black and white really.

On the one hand you want to reduce your overheads as much as possible. And having a business that does not need employees seems like the ideal business. Especially if it's one that also allows you to maintain things with a minimal investment of time

However, I believe in employement. I also believe that a great business owner is not one that does everything himself. Rather he is one that employs the best person to do the job.

So really grey

About your guilt, I am not certain that you should feel guilty about an opinion that was honestly shared. It was your opinion. What's there to be guilty about

 

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[Icy]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

Hmmm. It's not black and white really.

On the one hand you want to reduce your overheads as much as possible. And having a business that does not need employees seems like the ideal business. Especially if it's one that also allows you to maintain things with a minimal investment of time

However, I believe in employement. I also believe that a great business owner is not one that does everything himself. Rather he is one that employs the best person to do the job.

So really grey

About your guilt, I am not certain that you should feel guilty about an opinion that was honestly shared. It was your opinion. What's there to be guilty about

Thing is though, if something can be automated then you're merely going to be giving a person a rule book to follow each day. Then when something can be simply put into a book of rules you're constantly going to be able to get cheaper labor. Then people will just complain about not making enough even though it's their fault they are simply an employee of following rules. Hell, if what they're doing it just "following the book" I imagine there's be a very high turn over rate anyways due to just being able to take it forever.

Blah, that sounds bad, but I can't think of a "nice" way to put it. :S Does that make sense to anyone else?

 

[ITA]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

It is absolutely black and white. That woman probably means well but she doesn't understand economics, or what building a business entails. Most people don't. This is a case of "listen to the masses, and do the opposite".

You shouldn't feel any guilt at all. It's perfectly normal to maximize your profits and not hire staff you don't need.

I'm willing to bet my watch that this woman who feels so passionately about employment never started a business for herself and never created any job - am I right?

 

[Blue]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

I told her I was designing a company that was essentially 'humanless.'

I was taken aback with her reaction -- that I was 'taking away jobs.'

You were designing a company. There was no job at this point, so how did you take one away?

In this day and age, it is up to the person pushing the button to realize when they are easily interchanged. If you sit at a desk all day and push a red button every minute, you must realized that:

1) anyone else in the office can do it
2) a monkey can do it
3) a machine can do it

If you blindly believe that you have job security and will continue to get raises yearly you will be laid off or eliminated one day. Unfortunately, many older folks do not know this because it's just not how the world was 20 years ago. They don't feel any need to get educated on current technology.

I do feel for the person working at Ford who has been putting together a car for 20 years. When the plant closes down, what skills do they have outside of car assembly? I would like to hire people here to do the job of people in China. But I am trying to maximize profit. Is it for the greed of money? No. It's because I need money too like everyone else.

As for our businesses, we here on the Fastlane are taught about systems (e-myth) and therefore structure our businesses to be run by monkeys. As a boss, it is much easier to replace people within a system than to have an employee who knows all the ins and outs of your business.

Getting back to the original post. I think my reaction would be to ask her if she would like to do that job that the computer could do. You are not doing society any favors by creating a job that a machine could do either.

There was a video that shows how USB thumb drives were made. Everything was automated except for the step where you stamp the number of GB onto the thumb drive. There was a lady sitting at the table and all she did was put stickers on the thumb drive for 10 hours a day. You want to know why it wasn't automated?? Because the price to build a machine to put stickers onto the thumb drive was alot more than it cost to pay someone a few bucks a day to do it.

The question is, which is better for society.

 

[speed-racer]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

Wow, thanks to everyone for their feedback and I've 'Thank(ed)' each of you.

It seems this topic has struck a nerve as you each seem very passionate about your position when it comes to profits, job creation, and the opinion of others. I really appreciate how each of you responded as it is very helpful.

What's weird about this whole 'guilt' thing is, 99+% of the time, I NEVER allow anyone's opinion of what I do bother me in any way shape or form if I truly believe in what I believe regardless of what it is. I am not sure why in this one instance that I let it get to me like it had. Did it make me change my course? ABSOLUTELY NOT. (see http://www.thefastlanetomillions.co...ck-maybe-ive-been-out-touch-world-lately.html) I still believe in profit maximization and labor minimization, period.

Also, the additional weirdness of it all, I absolutely do not believe in what I heard previously (nor the mentality) by, well I'm not going to say who said it right now, but I'm sure some of you may have heard it, too - [paraphrasing] 'there comes a point when someone has made enough money...' and the extension of this is to 'spread the wealth around' - huh????? what???? What ever happened to 'personal responsibility'? Is that now passe?

When I heard it and from that particular source who is very powerful, my mouth dropped BELOW the floor! I'd like to be the one who decides what to do with the money I've earned, thank you very much.

Now, I better understand why those who believe in that ideology hate banks and other private industry including their own employers 'who have the nerve' to be successful. And from what I can tell, those same folks, of course, never ran a business. Many go as far as to say that while they do the grunt work, all they're doing is making their bosses rich. They truly have no concept of what goes into 'success.'

I just can't seem to relate to that way of thinking. I also don't feel it is my duty to create jobs for anyone for the sake of creating jobs as it adds to my overhead and takes away from what I need that income for. I guess I missed the class where they taught how poor people hire others for job creation and the more jobs you create, the more successful the company.

With all of that said, that's why my reaction to my relative is so uncharacteristic - this one and only time I didn't brush it off because it's not like I hadn't heard it before. At least I can truly say that it didn't change my intensity nor my plan. My creating a virtual organization is nearly realized as I can see the finish line.

Plus, it's not like I don't need people, because I do. The virtual organization IS designed to provide income for others; it's just that those folks wouldn't be employees; they only get paid for results whether it is via reseller, referral, or some affiliate-type of program. Since I can't do all of the rest required, any hired labor (contract or otherwise) will be truly justified first.

The management of that part of the system is nearly automated, too. The structure is designed so generically that I could almost adapt it to almost any type of product or service. I have no guilt about doing this - it's only about who my relative is and what was said. It doesn't seem to make any sense to me, either.

As I continue in my quest to to shake this guilt (its getting better, but I still have a little way to go), how can we as entrepreneurs keep more of our income and not be pressured to hire others if the powers-that-be pressure us to give it away to others through fees and taxation to those who hadn't earned it and are able-bodied? I just don't get that.

Is there another business-minded person who can provide an argument whereby I should be okay with this, too and that whatever I make beyond a certain dollar figure I should be forced to give it to others instead of e.g. picking charities I want to give it to if I so choose (and I do/will), etc?

In a desperate effort to reduce unemployment, I foresee the future concept that companies could be penalized for NOT hiring people when they make 'too much profit' as determined by others.

Thanks.

P.S. @throttleforward, I guess I'm sometimes long winded, too.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

Great topic. I posted this last week, but here it is again. I wrote a piece on the morality issues that may give you something to think about.

http://www.thefastlanetomillions.co...es-legal/26666-morality-asset-protection.html

Guilt is something society has pressed upon you. We are raised to believe it is best to do what is right for the 'common good'. This is complete bullshit.

This is certainly a controversial topic and one that can be easily misunderstood and invoke emotional responses, so tread lightly. My view is that if each person were to do things in their own rational self-interest, the world would be a much better place.

The definition of sacrifice is to give up something you value more, in exchange for something you value less. This is a confusing subject, but in your case, your friend things you should hire someone (give up the profit) in exchange for the 'common good' of providing a job. This is collectivist (socialist) thinking and she likely doesn't even know or understand it.

You have no reason to feel guilty for maximizing your gain and/or profit. Entrepreneurs and investors are the creators in the world and you have every right to maximize your productivity. You will likely spend the money on consumption or invest it in addtional productive assests, which are both good for the economy in different ways.

What is bad about that? She is just trying to impose her own sense of morality. Don't bend your own morals to accomodate someone else's weaknesses.

 

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[Anon3587x]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

Honestly that is nothing but an opinion coming from someone who grew up in a different age with a different mindset.

It's not worth paying attention to.

Opinions in cases of what is right or wrong are never worth paying attention to do. Do what you want to do.

As long as your not doing anything illegal its all good.

Even if something is illegal it does not mean its wrong.
But those a**holes will lock you up the same as anyone else if you break them.
So its best to just go along with the flow.

 

[speed-racer]

Re: Should I have a guilty-conscious? Is what I did morally wrong

Hey again folks.

Now, tell me what you really think! :banana:

I totally agree. It's amazing how that mindset exists.

Having an entrepreneurial gene removes the proverbial 'shackles.' For those who don't have that gene, they become really lost since all they know is working for someone else.

I've also seen it even worse when someone worked for a company and belonged to a union. Talkin' about people who really have a sense of entitlement! Typically, they see those who make a profit as, let's say, not good.

In this 21st century, job entitlement is growing instead of shrinking. I just don't get that. :smx4:

P.S. I 'Thank'(ed) you two, also. :smxB: