2019 Fastlane Summit - Announcement

[MJ DeMarco]

I wasn’t sure how to address this but decided transparency and honesty would be the best approach.

With that said, it is with great disappointment (and some frustration) that I must officially announce that the upcoming 2019 Fastlane Summit has been canceled.

Yes, canceled.

I realize this will upset many (as it upsets me that I have to do it considering last year's event ROCKED) but here is the reality as see it.

As you may know, the event was also canceled in 2017 due to some health challenges I was having. However this year’s cancellation has nothing to do with my health, but due to a combination of reasons, all of which paint a bigger picture.

First, in THIS THREAD, I made a preliminary call out (probe) for potential speakers. In the past, the event has always featured forum regulars who were gracious enough to offer their time and expertise. Having a nice pool of speakers to choose from was never a problem. For those who responded in that thread to speak, I thank you for your generosity in offering your wisdom.

In this thread, a total of 16 people offered to potentially speak (as of last Friday, several volunteered others to speak but that does not count.) Now when someone offers to speak, usually you can count on slightly LESS THAN HALF to actually do so -- this is because of a person’s schedule, their financial situation (flights, hotels, etc.) and various other reasons. This means as of now using this conservative formula, 7-8 people would speak.

Last year, 16 speakers spoke.

I figured this number would change when the weekly forum mass email headlined this announcement. To my shock, it didn’t. This means in order for me to get to 16, I would need to go “off forum” and seek (plead / instigate / compel) speakers who aren’t regular forum visitors or contributors.

Second, holding this event is a HUGE financial risk for my company because it has always been an event that was NOT designed for PROFIT, but for COMMUNITY.

Ticket prices have been purposely kept low for this reason. Additionally, when you compare this event to other similar events, the average price is usually more than triple -- and those events don’t even bother to feed you. Additionally, the hotel makes me sign a guarantee for rooms and food -- and if they don’t sell -- I’m on the hook for 100+ nights plus the guarantee. This amount is nearly $50,000 that I have to sign my name to. This risk increases as the local attendance increases (they don’t book rooms).

While last year's event came out marginally in the green, it was a type of “bet” that I would NEVER make in the financial markets, in business, or otherwise. But I find myself doing it here. In order for me to accept the risk, the ticket prices would need to skyrocket, or significant services (food) would need to be cut.

Third, if the event isn’t beneficial financially or from a risk standpoint, surely it must be good for the community right? I mean, that’s the main reason I was doing it right?!

Unfortunately history (in recent years since the FB era) shows that the direct forum benefit for the event has been marginal and not sustainable -- limited to about 60 days, about 45 days during and after the event, and maybe 15 days around ticket sales. And then things return to a baseline whereas many attendees stop contributing, or worse, stop visiting, only to return next November when the Summit discussion returns.

To verify this, I actually looked at the user attendance history of the last 2 years of meetings and was woefully shocked to discover that a majority of attendees do not contribute content to the forum. And by content, I mean a periodic post every few weeks, not something daily.

While I don’t deny that the incredible energy, camaraderie, and singularity of purpose of the event is awesomely breath-taking, it appears that this “energy” doesn’t stay on the forum, but goes elsewhere into personal networks, Facebook groups, Discord, etc. It’s disheartening for me to see the FB group that represents this event is actually more engaged than forum it represents. In the past, I even created a separate forum for attendees to gab and post in order to sustain the energy, but the result was the same.

While user registrations are higher as are active users at the forum, deep communal engagement is not at a level where I feel comfortable holding this event. This may also explains why the response to speak was somewhat lackluster.

Fourth, I have a lot of irons in the fire, from writing 2 more books (Unscripted Book 2 and 3) to other business dealings, to starting the process on building a custom home in Sedona. And lets not forget, being an active, daily contributor to this forum to help other people live the dream that is made possible through Unscripted Entrepreneurship.

All of these concerns become more evident when I recently read Essentialism, a book which is a treatise into learning how to say NO! to things that aren’t benefiting your personal mission and the things most important to you.

As many know, I have zero interest in being a guru, public speaking, or having seminars. While I appreciate meeting readers face to face, socializing with cigars and liquor, and hearing accolades and kudos about my writing, as an introvert and someone who enjoys deep solitude, the event is very stressful for me.

Reading Essentialism forced me to face the truth in the matter -- I don’t do this event for me -- I do it for the community -- additionally, it is extremely nerve-wracking, it is not a profit maker (giving me a decent return on my time to compensate for stress/risk) and most important, it doesn’t appear to be helping the community long-term.

At last year’s event I thought things would change when Chris W (Lighthouse) made a plea to all attendees to start a progress thread and update as the weeks and months went by. I also tried to reiterate the importance of the forum as it related to the event.

To be specific, the EVENT exists because of the FORUM, the FORUM does NOT exist because of the EVENT.

Think about that dichotomy.

The event happens because of the forum and it’s standing as a community, not the reverse.

So this year’s event, I’m sorry to say, will not happen.

However, is this the END of the event?

No more parties at Talking Stick Resort?

I hope that isn’t the case.

I hope this is a ONE year kink in the road and next year, I will look at the forum and its engagement and say, “We NEED to have an event!“ Again, my main priority for this event since leading its charge was foremost COMMUNITY -- that headlines over profit, stress, and risk. Next year it would be nice to look at the forum and say, “Damn, I WANT to do this, and we NEED to do this!” I would welcome to be forced into a re-evaluation.

Ultimately I would love to blow it out and have 200, or even 300 people. I don’t think hitting those numbers would be a problem but this kind of ambition (much less 120 like last year) has to ORIGINATE and be grass-rooted at the forum, not elsewhere.

So if the forum and its message (and the event) is important to you, I would hope that you continue to make the forum a small piece of your life.

If this is your first time back in months and you’re reading this, I will just say thank you for visiting and hope you understand the decision.

Over ten years ago I started this forum to foster a message of freedom through entrepreneurship. The forum has gone through a variety of peaks and valleys, but still retains its fundamental purpose which is derived from my purpose to inspire people to live their best through business ownership.

If you believe in that message, I will kindly request what I request every year… visit the forum and contribute! Say hello. Tell us what you’re doing. Tell us what you learned, what you’ve failed, and what you’ve succeeded.

And to everyone who has done so and continues to do so, I thank you from the bottom of my heart …. thank you so much for sharing your journey.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Just an FYI, I'm exploring the possibility of licensing the event this year to offload the work, risk, at all the details involved. There's a possibility the event still might happen...

Stay tuned...

 

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[Davidla]

I'd like to discuss an additional perspective on the whole situation.

I found the forum ~10 years ago when I was 20, halfway across the world while living in Israel. I was blown away by the stories and gold nuggets in the forums, and people's willingless to share and help others.

I also came across the meetup thread, and thought "WOW. Can't believe there's an opportunity to actually meet these people and connect in person, and learn from them".

So I made it a priority to fly across the world and make it to the first meetup I could.

The forum and the meetups have literally changed my life. During those 10 years, I've talked to anyone who would listen about the forum, the books, and the meetups..

I've also showed up to every meetup but one since my first one in 2011 and made life changing relationships with other members.

I know I wouldn't be 20% of where I am right now without this great community, the friends I've made, and the knowledge and experience people have shared with me along the years.

That being said, only 10% of the value came in through the online forum.. and 90% came in through the friendships, events, in person interactions and FB/email/other.

I'm a slow reader, and I'm an even slower writer. This post took me 2hrs of writing/editing and another 2 hours of reading everything up to this point (and getting over objections/worries about writing this in the first place).

So my point is, there's a ton of value in "The Fastlane" outside the forum. Why fight it instead of embrace it?

Capitalize on the "IRL" Benefits of The Fastlane

Why should we fight a losing battle, and try to get people to "like" forums in 2018 when it is in fact a dying/legacy product in the grand scheme of things?

Why limit me to reading/writing in front of my computer as the only way to contribute to the community?

I'm still going to do it when it comes naturally, and feel like I have something organized to put in writing that would be helpful for others.

But in the meantime, I'm going to be meeting up with other members, texting, FB messaging, masterminding for the more "soft"/intangible benefits.

Suggestions from other Entreprenur Communities

I'm in Bangkok, and next week I'm going to an event called DCBKK (DC = Dynamite Circle).

DC has 5 events in different cities around the world, where hubs of members live.

If this was the Fastlane, there would probably be a Scottsdale meetup, a Canada meetup, A Europe meetup, a SE Asia meetup etc.

Every 3rd week of the month there's a dinner meetup in every one of these areas where members meet and hangout together (member organized and led, new members always welcome).

There's also a forum with great value/info..but if you look at where a lot of the real "value" is generated, it is during the large meetups and the personal relationships and connections between the members that continue for life/between the events.

The DC community grew around a Podcast called "The Tropical MBA", that's what started it. Very much like the Fastlane built around the forum and MJ's books..

So why not bring the offline Fastlane Community under an offical wing? Why not have a "local" promoted event everywhere there is demand for it? Yes it takes more logistics/management, but there's a huge value for "The Fastlane" and its members. (DC members pay ~$300/year outside of any event fees).

Think TEDx here..TED wouldn't be anywhere what it is today without all the locally organized events it has. The in person TEDx events fuel the online TED brand and content..

What I see in this thread is a huge demand from the "Fastlane customers"/heavy users to expand beyond the forum, in ways that are convenient and natural.

At the moment there is no organized/official way to interact with forum members outside of the forum (apart from the Summit). So these interactions happen anyway in a way that doesn't really benefit the forum. Let's change that.

These interactions are gold. They are helping hundreds of us in our Fastlane/Unscripted journeys. They are a proof of the huge impact The Fastlane and MJ are having on our lives.

 

[Eskil]

Late to the thread here but like others here, I was initially sad to hear there wouldn't be an event next year but reading through the thread and MJ's responses - I do understand some of the reasonings a little better.

@GlobalWealth and I talked on the phone the other day where he mentioned his offer to take on the event, and now that I see this...

I'm exploring the possibility of licensing the event this year to offload the work, risk, at all the details involved. There's a possibility the event still might happen...

...well I would like to add that since I'm a local and live just 20 minutes away from TSR, I would gladly offer my time once again to volunteer and help with name badges or other things. @Red , would you be able to team up too?

Changing up the event format
But anyway - I wanted to share my thoughts on MJ's concern of having enough speakers. I think that issue itself could be resolved easily by changing up the format of the event:

I don't think that the event necessarily needs to be filled with X amount of speakers from morning till late afternoon each day. @pkom79 touched on this too. Even if only 8 out of 16 ended up committing to speaking, that would be fine. I mean, I think everyone would gather just as much, if not more, from having the event days broken up into group sessions on topics.

For instance, the format could change to having say 4 speakers before noon each day - and then the rest of the day could consist of 1-2 hour "round table" sessions in groups on different subjects, with coffee/bathroom breaks between. The room could be arranged with say 4-5 sets of tables, each area devoted to a major subject. We could have an e-commerce group, a RE investing group, a crypto currency group, and perhaps SaaS or digital products group (just examples obviously).

I think this would help keep more people away from "shiny object syndrome" as well, and help them stay focused more on that ONE thing they should be doing. If they are "dabbling"(tm) in real estate, well then go be part of the RE sessions. Who cares if they are missing out on the crypto sessions because that would only get them sidetracked from what they should focus on anyway. Or if a total newbie is torn between going into SaaS or e-commerce, well he or she could jump into one of the sessions first, and then another later.

While it is always super interesting and fascinating to listen to many different speakers on a wide multitude of topics and subjects, it can for some people be a little overwhelming, and be an information overload. We could still be doing that, but what I'm saying is - if we worry less about trying to fill two entire days with speakers - and instead set up focused groups on more centralized subject matter - everyone might learn and share more in a more concentrated amount of time.

I'd say each round table / session group should have maybe an "expert" panel of 3-5 people heading each group, and there could be times for Q&A and as many as possible getting their chance to share experiences or raise questions.

Bonus thoughts on forum / positive side effects of the events
Lastly - as far as your concern for the spike of traffic that comes and then dies out before and after the event, I think that is a natural thing with any event on any forum or group out there. I agree more people should try to hold themselves accountable to write and update progress threads though (and I'm also guilty of not updating my own as much this year but in my defense I do have good reasons to why I haven't, lol).

Regardless of forum engagement following the event - it is also a recruiting tool for your brand MJ, because I can speak for myself and others when I say that the event has directly lead to more and more people hearing about the book, the forum, and the events from people who have been - who tell their buddies and friends about it EVERY year, and those people then discover it all and join in. The event is awesome, and the community is too.

The book changed my life. The forum made an equally big impact on me, and the events and people I got to meet in real life even more so. And I pledge to get better at becoming more engaged and active here again than I have lately.

 

[biophase]

I wasn't sure if I was going to respond to this thread as I'm one of the people that didn't reply on the speaker's thread. Personally, I just didn't know if I wanted to present again.

But with that said, I disagree with MJ about the summit and its cancellation on many points, except the part where if you don't want to do it, you shouldn't do it. If it's not something that you look forward to, there's really not a reason to do it. Why put yourself through all that work and stress only to not enjoy the finished product.

So here is where we will disagree. For one, the financial commitment being a huge risk. This event for the past 5+ years has always sold out. At some point you have to look at past data and make a calculated decision. I think we can reasonably say that the event will sell at least 100 tickets.

As someone who has run this event pre-fastlane, I've put up my own money many times and understood the risk. But here is where MJ and I differ. Even if I lost a few thousand dollars, the event was still worth it for me. This is why I had my entrepreneurial vacation company that did trips like safaris, which always ending up losing me money. But I didn't care, because I value the experience and time spent with others over money.

On the issue of people not active on the forum buying tickets... this is tricky, on one hand if they make up 20-30 tickets, would those spots be bought up by other active forum members? Or is it the core group of non-active members propping up the ticket sales? People come to events to meet people and to reconnect with people they met in the past years.

Let's say John Snow is on the forum alot in 2015 and is excited and goes to Summit 2016. He meets a ton of people, makes 10 close friends and then doesn't come back to the forum. In 2017 he wants to go to the event to see friends and come back to the awesome event. Do you say no to him? To me, it makes no sense.

This in my opinion is why you only had 29 replies on this thread... First, it's ironic that the only people reading the thread are the ones that visit the forum often. So it sounded like, "You guys reading this are contributing but it's just not enough. These other people buying up tickets aren't posting, so no cake for everyone." The first day I read it, I was like ok fine maybe I won't post as much then. After Chris S. made his comment, I knew I wasn't the only one to have that reaction. It makes it feel like we need to earn the event, and it doesn't sit well with me.

If you look at other annual entrepreneurial events that many people repeatedly go to year after year, there are no prerequisites that one must participate somewhere to be eligible to attend. I don't feel that forum participation should be a prerequisite, but this is MJ's forum and event so he can certainly dictate that.

And lastly, I understand that you f*cking hate Facebook and Suckerburg, but unfortunately that's where people are connecting. Yes, your 150k liked page has no reach now, but there are still people on there. There are people in old fastlane FB groups. It's your personal decision to not interact on there, but if that's where people are, you can't try to pull them back to something they don't naturally go to. This is a losing battle.

You state, "While I don’t deny that the incredible energy, camaraderie, and singularity of purpose of the event is awesomely breath-taking, it appears that this “energy” doesn’t stay on the forum, but goes elsewhere into personal networks, Facebook groups, Discord, etc."

Does it really matter that the camaraderie stays on the forum? Shouldn't it be satisfying enough to know that the event has changed lives and made lifelong friends. Does it matter where these friends are now communicating?

You state "The forum... ...still retains its fundamental purpose which is derived from my purpose to inspire people to live their best through business ownership."

Guess what, the event does the exact same thing, once a year.

 

[Tom.V]

Very sad to hear this. The summit this year was a GAMECHANGER for me and my business.

• The connections made with fellow Fastlaners, several of which now are forged in stone for years to come.
• The chance to put the faces to the names I have spoken to over the years.
• The ideas flowing from every angle as a constant reminder as to why we are all doing this.
• The rocket fuel of motivation and inspiration to straight up change every aspect of my life for the better.

It was an incredible experience and definitely one I was looking forward to partaking in and contributing to again this year. It was a catalyst for incredible change in my life and many others as well. For that, I am forever grateful to you @MJ DeMarco and everyone here at the forum for your contributions both to the event and otherwise.

Summit or no Summit, this place is life changing. I won't be going anywhere anytime soon and will continue to provide value as much as I can. Fingers crossed for FLF Summit 2020.

 

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[AllenCrawley]

A lot of people stating the reason for their lack of engagement on the forum is due to noise, clutter, etc. I've commented on this in the past. Believe it or not, this is an issue that has been brought up a few times before.

It always takes me by surprise to read comments like this. How this comes across to me is, "there is nothing here that benefits me so I'm out.". IOW, I only care for what's in it for me. I understand the frustration of seeing incredibly cluttered forum posts and nonsense threads by people who are either jockeying for forum attention/rep or just too lazy to google or do a simple forum search.

However, be the change you seek in this forum.

Has the books, forums, and meetups not enriched and impacted your life to such a degree that you don't feel compelled to return the favor and pay it forward?

Some things are worth the time, effort and investment. Frankly, there is no other place like this on the internet. Period.

I call BS on those of you who claim your decreased involvement is due to archaic software, bad mobile experience, etc. "Serve me in exactly how I wish or I'm not interested." This is not Facebook. This is not Reddit. This is an oasis and is worthy of protecting and engaging in.

Don't like the experience of using a forum built on software that refuses to catch up? Suck it up, buttercup. It's worth the hassle.

Tired of the noise and clutter? Post something that helps someone else. Give back. Pay it forward.

Thanks to @GlobalWealth and @Kung Fu Steve and a couple others for offering to step up to keep the event alive.

 

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[LightHouse]

What the FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.....


I have been off the forum for a little bit..... (iron-knee?)


I have also been off of all social media for a while (surprise MJ!)


But it's because I’m getting down to business. @Vigilante wanted to ruin my day yesterday and call me with this news.


I want to say i get it, but I don't. And guess what, i'll shoot my shot and put out there why I think that.


Early on the meetup was self funded as a networking and sharing event to put faces to names. After a while when the meetup hit critical mass with the effort put in, it had to be rescued with a structure change. That was a big move and it worked out. But while the interest grew the subsequent speaker pool shrank.


There are a ton of people on here that could provide value, but can they do it on stage? What we have already found out is no, you have to have good content and be able to speak. Mainly because now, people are paying a good clip of money to come to the event and get value from it. Its no longer a distributed value sharing event, it's more akin to a traditional conference.


But let's look at the larger point here, engagement on the forum.


This forum is also in a turning period. Forums because the thing because they were and area to collect and share specific information with like minded individuals. Like the bulletin boards before them, they were a method of getting your opinions out to a group of people that wanted to hear it.


This forum itself was designed for an era that is long since passed the apex of its usefulness.


The reason people choose social or messenger over the forum these days is because it is more in line with what they are already doing. This forum needs to evolve, and I think It needs to evolve soon.


I know there is a massive sunk cost in its design MJ, but the reality is, it sucks on mobile and without collapsing replies, its cumbersome to get through content.


Look at all the major sites and services, they all have collected, threaded, and collapsible content and replies. Even gmail and outlook do this. People are becoming more and more efficient with technology and mobile pushed that in a huge way. One of the main reasons reddit won out over the others (besides the digg redesign disaster) was that you could consume a lot of content and fast. All the other platforms followed suit including facebook.

Also….. Voting. Most major sites have adopted voting systems or algorithms that handle it based on engagement. Why? Because it is efficient. As it sits with all the thread tag clutter, In order to find threads I’m interested in that have decent conversation, I have to sift through a ton of thread titles with a variety of tags in order to start, then sift through replies 10 at a time scrolling forever on tons of wasted space and user tags, in order to see if the discussion is decent or if someone has brought up the point I wanted to make. You know what, most people skip it and post “ I didn’t read but”


I know there is not much that is going to change your mind MJ, and I’m certainly not trying to shit all over this forum, you, your brand, or anything else like that, my point is simply … this forum NEEDS to evolve.


It HAS to evolve. You can’t alienate the services that have more adoption and expect that it will turn people back to the old way.

The funny part is, I feel like I originally learned that lesson either from you @MJ DeMarco or here on the forum. Things evolve and if you don’t adapt you die.

I have been in this community since inception and seen the world evolve around it with marginal fundamental updates to how it works. This site is a community, that community can exist in a newer house and thrive.

Either way, I am sure none of this is new to you and you may have heard it before. I think it points to an interesting discussion overall and I hope you don’t feel offended by it. I don’t want to lose this community at all, it’s the reason I am here and its responsible for a lot of good things in my life so I have a vested interest in seeing it thrive. I think it is just time to trade in the ol Pinto for one of those new Tesla’s!


P.S. I still owe you a backrub. I made you this voucher.

 

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[Vigilante]

The fact that this thread hasn't blown up overnight is evidence that this is a well reasoned, pragmatic and correct decision.

If people understood the value of the credential of being selected as a speaker at a private convention of entrepreneurs, the RFP for speakers would have 100 applicants. So, first... you all (who didn't throw your hat into the ring) either have nothing to say, or don't understand the value.

I wrote a white paper a while back. It adds to my professional bio. I did a bunch of consulting for a research group. It adds to my professional bio. And guess what, kids? When I have spoken at the Millionaire Fast Lane Forum, it adds to my professional bio. You can be sure that when I speak with media companies about hosting a radio show, etc... that is part of my "resume." There's value well beyond the walls for being even considered or included in an event like this.

The decision is not going to change for 2019, because the decision is the right one for the organizer(s).

The best way for you to bring this fun and unique gathering back together in the future is to :

• do epic shit
• participate in the forum regularly
• have a reason people would want to hear you speak
• then, when given an opportunity, engage

Next time this comes around, it should be bursting at the seams. I am far less interested in hearing another rewarmed up speech from people who made some money 15 years ago, and much more interested in new blood, new ideas, and new speakers. The same good ol' boys, who don't participate here but use the annual meetups as their family reunion with their drinking buddies but offer very little value to the reason (forum) for the meetup create a dynamic where MJ just doesn't need to throw their annual party.

There are a couple hundred people that would like to milk the event, but only a handful that want to facilitate it happening. Don't be a milker.

I 100% support the decision, which sucks because I was looking forward to attending this year fresh off a clean escape (again) from corporate America.

Keep pressing, and find Fast Laners in your local communities and learn to engage each other locally with some of the same dynamics you can get from a mountain top experience in Phoenix.

 

[ZCP]

So I just had a meeting Friday with my full staff of my engineering company. We recently did not hit sales goal targets. I called a meeting to 'identify the issue(s) and then put together a plan to fix it'. Morale was down, participation was down, everyone was frustrated and confused.

Funny thing is, the end result of the meeting? I was not being clear to the crew what I wanted.

Once I let them know exactly what I wanted, in what form I wanted it, and why I wanted it ........ they took over and put together a plan to get things back on track including what part I would have in that plan. I am now fully confident my company will meet its goals and live long after I am gone.

@MJ DeMarco what do you want?

 

[eliquid]

Let me start off by saying that I am NOT trying to call anyone out. I respect the hell out of both of you. But, I think these two most recent posts prove @MJ DeMarco point...

This threads been up for over a week now and two users I consider to be heavy hitters on the forum are just now seeing it for the first time.

What MJ is trying to say is that a lot of the heavy hitters disappear for 10 months out of the year, show up around Summit time, but a ticket, the disappear again.

The heart of the matter that MJ is trying to explain is that the forum is suffering from a lack of quality engagement and posts because the high quality posters that attend the summit, don’t post on the forum.

The financial risk was more of a side not vs a main reason not to do it.



And dude, I definitely get it. I’m guilty as hell for not being present here a lot lately because I’m grinding my a$$ off working on this business. So, trust me, I’m right there with you.

I think the forum this week has done a really good job receiving MJ’s message and working on fixing the house, before we throw a party.

I don't know.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I log in almost every single day.... No joke.

I tend to post only when I know I can contribute though. I ran across this thread several times the past few days and read bits and pieces here and there each day as it grew, but decided to only post today when I had an idea about the "fund pool" to help with the "risk" part of the equation. I tend to stay away from shallow posting ( where I post things that don't contribute in some way ) so I pick and choose when to post.

I've also seen a lot of attendees ( that I know from meeting them ) post here since the summit. Whether or not it is frequent enough or not, could be a different topic though.

I rather be more "deep" than "wide" ( think of the shape of a T ). So I have decided to only post when I feel I can offer truly good advice or something unique that no one else has said or brought up yet.

I feel a lot of other posters are like this too. If you are one of them, please speak up to validate!

This might be the missing piece of the engagement @MJ DeMarco is talking about. If I was "wide", then I would be in every "new person intro" post saying high and offering my 1-2 lines of greeting and copy paste, but I prefer to be deep which doesn't really fit well into a intro post.

Anyone else here feel the same? Where are my knowledgeable introverts at?

I have plenty of people that DM me where I spend a good amount of time helping them on DMs ( here and at other forums ) and also in my threads and on Skype. That doesn't show up though in the public sections of the forum.

Maybe the engagement piece is a reflection of that. True some people are busy and don't have time, but another section of us ( like me ) post only when we can truly help with deep responses.

There are times I read ( and not post ) for 2+ hours daily on this forum. Maybe sometimes its 1 hour, others might be more.

There are times a single post of mine ( not often, but has happened ) or a DM takes me 2 hours of writing, back and forth editing, circling back, research to support an idea, thoughts, revision to the post I wrote ( sometimes multiple times ), etc

That can be a lot of time daily potentially when added up for reading and posting. Because of that, I pick and choose the engagement I do so I can still do other things outside of the forum.

Just something to think about when considering all the issues. Some of us don't have time, and some of us are just "deep posting" when we feel we can contribute.

I'm not sure where that leaves things that could be improved as far as users are concerned.

.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

The fact that this thread hasn't blown up overnight is evidence that this is a well reasoned, pragmatic and correct decision.

My first reaction when reading @MJ DeMarco's post was complete disagreement.

The event is something I look forward to every year. I've been to the meetup since it was just 20 people at the Days Inn and every year thereafter.

Nowadays people have dozens of distractions online from all the social sites to forums, etc.

After reading @Vigilante's response, I tend to agree (and yes, I actually vomited a little bit in my mouth)...

Engagement is down. The fact that so few people even commented on the cancellation notice proves the point.

Some comments, ideas, suggestions for @MJ DeMarco and all forum attendees.

Get to work. Hustle. Then pop back on the forum every once and awhile and inspire us. Or scare us. Or educate us with your lessons learned.

Stop posting complete and utter F*cking bullshit on the forum and asking questions a google search could answer for you. And for F*cks sake, don't ask if you should quit college....

With the huge success of MJ's books, it has brought a ton of new members. And this blows up the above mentioned bullshit on the forum. Not sure how to address this, but I'm sure MJ and moderators are open to suggestion.

Lastly, I disagree with MJ about getting off FB and other social sites. They cannot and will not be avoided. People are on FB, there's no ignoring this.

Let's find a way to use an official FB page or group to boost engagement. Post links to interesting threads on the forum. Get members engaged.

MJ's stated goal was to teach freedom through entrepreneurship. I'd say his books and this forum have done an epic job of meeting that goal.

Engagement outside the forum, if done properly, can only further that success.

 

[amp0193]

Sorry to hear this @MJ DeMarco. Was really looking forward to going again this year.

It was really impactful for me this year, and I made a lot of life-changing connections. Yes, we're chatting off the forum... but in my case these guys happen to still be here regularly as well.

I found myself nodding my head through the whole post though. I get it. Hard to believe only 16 people put their names out there. I seem to remember pages and pages of entries in the past?

While user registrations are higher as are active users at the forum, deep communal engagement is not at a level where I feel comfortable holding this event. This may also explains why the response to speak was somewhat lackluster.

I think this is the heart of it.

Any thoughts as to why the communal engagement is low?

What's driven away the regular contributors?

How do you improve community?


I know I go on here to look through the recent threads on the front page, and 2 out of 3 times there seems to be nothing that great to read. I feel that the quality of the content posted by users, in general, has gone down. I took a 2 or 3 month hiatus earlier this year, because I didn't feel that coming here was worth the time. I wasn't getting much out of it. I keep coming back, because I know what the forum was, and I have hopes that it can change.

Is this shift in quality what has driven away regular members?

Or is the lower quality the void left by members leaving?

Maybe it was a negative feedback loop, and both caused the other?

Or maybe the amount of quality content is the same as ever, there's just more "noise" burying it.

Maybe the influx of new members following the release of Unscripted played a part in this?


But, regardless of what brought us here... what do you think is the way forward?

I think it's people stepping up to the plate to take the reigns from those members that are no longer here. More good content from members who are here regularly. You don't have to be a success story before you have valuable content to share. Almost everyone has something they can contribute. Strive to be a producer here, not a consumer.

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Alllllright... this is getting a little off-topic...

And let me clear things up for those of you who don't know our humor or personalities.

• We were joking about doing it in Panama. The event would be held at the Talking Stick Resort like it has been.
• There would not ACTUALLY be pitchers of Vodka on the table.
• We would not ACTUALLY enforce a 2 to 1 female to male ratio.

@MJ DeMarco I understand the hesitation. It's a lot of trouble for something that doesn't directly affect the community.

And *I* know what comes with events like these. The financial risk, the organization, etc. etc.

But, listen, we're just gong to put it on @GlobalWealth credit card so it'll be fine.

If you do want us to help out, we're not just able... we're willing!

 

[ZCP]

@MJ DeMarco ... Boss, am proud of you for what you have done so far. You change lives. You matter.
No way I try to change your mind as you are stubborn and most of the time right.

The summit introduced me to people and ideas that I have frankly been too busy trying to execute to be able to spend the time i used to on the forum. I submitted my name to speak. Would be honored to be able to in any year you would let me. I drop by from time to time now to drop encouragement bombs.

I think a bunch of us have just 'gone off to school' and left @MJ DeMarco 's house for a little bit while we make a mark in the world. Give us a little time. We'll be back with results and pics to prove it!

I'll set a calendar item to pop in every week or two to give back. We all owe each other and you so much!

 

[million$$$smile]

I was also somewhat surprised at the lack of response for speakers
I really felt that there would be a few newer faces that would care to speak.

So why not?
And why to those of us who have attended the last Summit not shared a progress thread or even posted as often? Why?

I think there are a number of reasons.
I do believe this Forum is unequably a unique site, but it has changed, and I think a part of it is due to it's own success.

As users gain success and grow, they invariably become busier. It just stands to reason. If you are in the trenches and gaining momentum on a business endeavor, many times you're either too busy or too beat to post a progress thread or even respond. Believe it or not, some of us are still building and designing our dream.

Another reason I feel is because you can only share so much information with others in a public or even semi-private forum. I know that personally. Anyone that has garnered any semblance of success has got to be careful in how much they post of what they are doing. It is far easier to post AFTER the win than when one is still playing the game. We become more reticent in our how to's when we are designing the next 'unicorn' business.

I agree that there is more 'noise' on the forum. (especially the ad loading, that's way overkill lately, IMHO) But I still stop by nearly every day and 'scan the headlines'

Much of what I see most recently reminds me of a classroom of new students ready to learn and waiting on the teacher to teach. The problem is, the teacher has just become a professor of higher learning and preparing for that. Maybe he got tired of answering all of the newbie questions, or perhaps decided to limit his responses to that young grasshopper that he really felt would get it, I dunno, but time being the most precious commodity, I'm sure he has to weigh that according to the value imparted.

I too think this forum might have to evolve a bit to not become stagnant. I am not sure how, but perhaps some form of media?

This is still the greatest site online for aspiring entrepreneurs, and those wanting to break loose of the financial scripted status quo.

I would have loved to have attended the Summit this year. but I wholeheartedly agree and understand the why of not having it. I think there is a place for endorsed 'regional meetups' but understand why it wouldn't happen. Why build another business when one need only write another bestseller?

This Forum, the books, and the members I have met have changed and made me a better person, businessman, and given me value that I have found unequaled elsewhere.

On that context, when I have value to post and feel I can, I will.

Business creates 'busyness'. The more success, the less time to express

R

 

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[WJS]

Ok time for a confession. I log in quite regularly to view the forum but I hardly post anything. It’s hard to admit it but the reasons I don’t post regularly are because of:

- Fear of judgment
You’d think that it wouldn’t be an issue as you’re anonymous in a forum, but it still haunts me. I really admire people who have the courage to openly share their struggles and failures. It’s really not an easy thing to do especially when you’re feeling blue from all the sh*t, and there will always be smart mouths who’d pour salt on your wounds. When you’re starting out things are super fragile. You’ll never know how things will turn out so most of the time people keep quiet and silently work on them. If the venture tanks we shelve it and move on. Generally people only start sharing when things are picking up. Hence the very long silences for some people. That’s what I’m going through now. Starting up something in the background and waiting to see how it goes.

- The “I’ve-got-nothing-interesting-going-on-compared-to XXX” syndrome
Yeah I know you’re not supposed to compare your own progress with other people. I also know that it does you more harm than good to compare. However humans are just irrational, and when you see people accomplishing so much while you’re still barely making any real progress, you tend to just keep quiet and cross your fingers that you’ll have something to announce soon too.

- Lack of interest in certain topics
Sometimes when I log in all I see are off-topic or irrelevant threads, and with the huge influx of new members lately, it kind of made the matter worse.

- Lack of expressiveness
Some people can flawlessly convert their thoughts into written sentences and/or spoken phrases. In fact when I see people who post thesis-length replies regularly I would secretly wish that I can do it too. Writing this post cost me almost an hour as I kept editing my points to better convey my thoughts.


If you think the above points sound like excuses, they are. They’re my “justifications” to remain silent and quietly lurk while avoiding attention. But at some points things will have to change. I know that and I’m working on it.

People say that silence is golden but sometimes, silence kills. In this case, I believe the silence of the community has backfired. So if you want a vibrant community, perhaps it’s time to open up and speak. To all moderators, regular contributors and @MJ DeMarco , thank you for making this forum great.

 

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[GlobalWealth]

As I mentioned on my OP, for me to continue undertaking it, I would need to reduce/eliminate the risk (prices go up and/or food goes down) -- or as someone suggested on FB, I would simply have to LICENSE the event to someone else who is willing to assume the risk. This would eliminate the risk for me (while retaining control) and give me a risk-free benefit/profit irrespective of the outcome.

This is what @Kung Fu Steve and I offered.

 

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[CareCPA]

This is frustrating to read. I was looking forward to the chance to go this year. We couldn't swing it last year, but decided we were going to do everything we could to get there this year.

I can't speak for others, but I'll give my thought process on speaking:
I was going to throw my name in there, whether as a solo speaker, or part of a panel. However, when I saw some of the more successful contributors putting their names in, I figured they were more qualified than I am to speak.
For example, @GlobalWealth is an incredible source of information on international tax and asset protection - so why would people want to hear me speak about domestic tax strategies? They could save way more if they can pull of an international structure.
Accounting in general is not seen as a value-add component to a business, so I honestly didn't think people would be interested to hear me talk. I'm curious if there are, perhaps, other people under-valuing their knowledge?

I hope this even returns in the future. I believe there is a level of connection that is attained in-person that cannot be replicated through anonymous forum posts. I'm sure the networking alone was invaluable to those who attended in the past.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Thanks to everyone who responded, appreciate the input and for trying to understand my thoughts on this.

I thought the summit was your yearly validation that you were making a difference in people's lives.

I don't need the Summit for validation. I get emails practically every single day that validates my work, not to mention here. Have you seen these threads?

GOLD! - I've Read The Millionaire Fastlane!

GOLD! - I've Read UNSCRIPTED!

I haven't counted, but I'm betting there is nearly 10,000 posts there that reflects validation.

In person kudos are nice, but I don't require them.

Is it ad money and post count that you are after instead?

Ironically, my "ad revenue" is the highest it's ever been, but it's not because forum traffic is up.

But to answer your question, NO on both counts.

I'm after quality engagement that adds value and builds relationships.

In the last few months, I've seen some really great posts from new folks who join and their post receives ZERO engagement. And I'm not even talking about a POST COMMENT, but a mere LIKE/THANKS!

The average person driving-by might not notice it, but I do. It's MY JOB to notice it.

Is the forum an aspect of the community? Or is the community the forum? It seems like you believe the latter, but most of us (your consumers, congregation, etc.) believe it to be the former.

I can see what you're saying -- that my "community" is in aggregate everything in the nexus of my work -- the forum, a simple reader, FB, my YT channel, my social media outreach etc. I think that perspective lends itself to someone who is doing this purely for personal branding and gurudom. (Think GaryV or someone similar)

If I took that approach, then I wouldn't give a crap WHO came to The Summit -- and I would host it for 400 people and advertise the crap out of it at Facebook or whatever other medium is hot.

The forum IS the community -- it is the tree that bears the fruit. Without the tree, the fruit doesn't exist.

is the forum what you want to build or the community? What are the metrics we are trying to hit (and we haven't been hitting)?

Your only community is the one which you can control.

I might have a "community" on Amazon or at Facebook, but as Facebook has shown (after I built a page with 150,000 people) that I have zero control over it.

So to answer your question, the community HERE is my priority, and will always be -- not a YT channel, not a FB group, and not an Amazon page.

What is a 10 for you in this section of your wheel of life?

A 10 is simply a vibrant community that can't imagine life without it. A 10 is a vibrant community that is GROWING with a mix of off topic side chat, business value, and stories of success and failure.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I enjoy the side-conversations (like a UFC fight, or a quantum physics discussion) which to me is a sign of an engaged community.

Lemme ask you this...

How do you think this place would LOOK and FEEL if the forum engagement from last year's event never FADED? Or if it did, it just faded by 50%?

You're asking me to analytically measure something that is difficult to measure.

But you know it, when you see it.

Overall, it's hard to discuss this without revealing private forum data, but an engaged forum would reflect analytically in terms of user growth, both new and repeating (I found it valuable enough to continue visiting and posting), user session length (the value keeps me there) and overall time on website.

While some measures are up (new users, page views in the last few months) all of the measurements that really matter, are not. And at a level that is not trivial, but substantive.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This is what @Kung Fu Steve and I offered.

Message me via contact form and Ill see if we can agree to deets.

 

[Kak]

I call BS on those of you who claim your decreased involvement is due to archaic software, bad mobile experience, etc. "Serve me in exactly how I wish or I'm not interested." This is not Facebook. This is not Reddit. This is an oasis and is worthy of protecting and engaging in.

Don't like the experience of using a forum built on software that refuses to catch up? Suck it up, buttercup. It's worth the hassle.

Good post. Agreed.

The interface is just fine. I wouldn't change a thing.

Also, Voting? What makes those of you that want a democracy think you have any say in how this forum is run? This forum is owned by MJ. It is HIS CALL.

People vote for their own special interest and ruin everything. I used to attend a local church that basically killed itself by letting idiot members vote.

I currently attend a church where the pastor runs the show. They are building a 13 million dollar facility...

I see a lot of parallels in that observation.

 

[amp0193]

I have never been on reddit or any of the other sites that people are mentioning, but sounds like they might be on to something with people able to down-vote the sh*t that just takes up space.

Or at the very least, the ability for me to self-filter and "hide a thread" from the feed forever, with one click.

How many times do I enter a thread, and realize "damnit, this was that stupid thread from 2 weeks ago, and here I am again".

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Sorry folks I haven't responded to all the comments, but after reading some of them I thought it would be best I left for a few days so I could maintain a fact-based response over an emotional one.

Now that I'm back, I'm going to temporarily LOCK this thread so I can respond to some of the comments.

However, let me just start with this...

Two years ago when I canceled the EVENT because my HEALTH was POOR, no one questioned it. The decision was respected and I was met with well-wishes and prayers for better health and recovery. No one said, "Lets do the event anyway!" and everyone accepted it for what it was. The standard response was pretty much, "Sorry to hear it, lets hope things for you are better next year!" To which they were and the event went off.

Yet when I cancel this year's event because the FORUM's health is POOR, many people are questioning it. Few are addressing the reason-- the forum--and everyone is focused on salvaging the event, to spite the forum. So in other words, lets forget about the primary reason for the cancellation (outside of the other things I cited) and lets do an end-around so we can keep this thing going... kinda like "lets ignore the disease but fix the symptom."

From another perspective...

I view this as me canceling an ANNUAL PARTY at my HOUSE because my HOUSE has a leaky roof that needs repair and instead of everyone RESPECTING the decision and/or addressing the HOUSE, they want to ignore it and still have the PARTY - so X will bring the Red Solo Cups, Y will bring the Beer, and everything will be great! Because I enjoy it and I love getting together! Wait, there's a problem with your house? Who cares, we EXPECT this event, and no matter what condition your home is in, you need to have it! Who cares about the leaky roof? We'll bring an umbrella!

Another perspective...

Imagine every year you HOST a PARTY at your HOME with your friends. Every year the party is a smashing success and you continue to HOST it because your HOME is large enough to HOST it. Every year you thank your friends for coming and you hope to continue your relationship with them. Except you realize that you rarely see or hear from most of your friends except at the party. And then when you tell your friends that your HOME is having some challenges (not because they've visited your home recently, but because of FB gossip), they don't really seem to care about your home, but they still want to use your home to have their party, and many of them will vigorously defend their perceived and entitled right to have it.

I'm sure that would make a lot of you pretty pissed.

And that's why I had to leave Friday afternoon.

As for the speculative and fact-lacking comments "It sells out in minutes! How can it be a risk?!" Ill get to that too...

 

[ZCP]

From your bystander point of view maybe it seems that way, not from actual analytics -- and I'm not going to reveal details here, but lets just say the analytics are clear as a Merlot stain on a white shirt...

Then going with what @csalvato said, is the forum what you want to build or the community? What are the metrics we are trying to hit (and we haven't been hitting)?

And just to note, not worried about the summit for this year. I would like to help you build what you want as you have helped me in building what I want!

What is a 10 for you in this section of your wheel of life?

 

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[biophase]

(where is everyone I know? People who've been here for years?)

They've gotten older, life changes, priorities changed. But they are still living and doing stuff, just not on the forum. I think this is the main issue of the forum. It is not designed nor the place for people to talk about life kind of stuff like other social media is.

For example, let's suppose a user was 25 years old in 2008 was heavy into flipping real estate and posted alot, in turn becoming friends with many others here. 10 years later, that person has gotten married, had 2 kids, and family is now the priority.

I may still know what's going on in her life through FB or IG. Her FB feed is mainly about school, mom stuff and yes, there is still some REI here sprinkled in. But she isn't going to come post here about how her kids are doing and we don't know to see that either. This simply isn't the forum for that.

On the flip side, maybe there's no content here that interests her anymore. She's not interested in flipping and fixing anymore, she's passed that point in her life. She's just not looking to start a business anymore.

 

[Fox]

I messed up on this one. I should have committed 100% but thought no one would want to hear about some simple web design stuff.

If this comes up again I will be on it right away.

Also, I will try to kick off some new threads here on things I am working on. This forum gave me so much and it is a shame if numbers are dropping back.

Hope we have a 2020 meet up. Gives me a little more time to get over public speaking ha!

Thanks for all you do @MJ DeMarco

 

[Kung Fu Steve]

Just so I am clear @Vigilante, I am volunteering the @Kung Fu Steve and I can organize the event.

Him and I hosted conferences together for several years so we are familiar with what it takes.

We have also been to the meet-up for close to a decade every single time so I think we get the format and expectations.

Now it's up to MJ to approve.

Sent from my VTR-L29 using Tapatalk

Son of a...

 

[Vigilante]

But, listen, we're just gong to put it on @GlobalWealth credit card so it'll be fine.

How the hell do you propose to host an event with $450 on a secured card? That's not even going to cover my cigar tab.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Message me via contact form and Ill see if we can agree to deets.

Done.

And for the record, since I've been to every Summit for the past decade or so, can I get the Summit Attendee badge?