Business Choice Dilemma in Lower Currency Country

[darkcyrus101]

Hello all. I'm currently living in Malaysia. (1USD=4.5MYR) I'm deciding between a local business that would earn me MYR. ( i do have a couple of ideas fielded for my community...)

Or an online business/service that would earn me USD... thats the dilemma I'm facing now. But the only service I can think of to fulfill online now is video editing, which is probably seriously saturated as its low barrier to entry.

Soon I'll be forced to look for a physical job here, as my savings are running out, which means I'll have to trade my time for MYR, which is a pain...

The fact that I'm linked to international based forums and cultures keeps making me indecisive on Fastlane options

Anyone has any suggestions or experience with being in a lower currency country?

The upside is the cost of living is also lower, but it'll only be beneficial if i earn USD, which I've yet to succeed.

Thanks in advance!

 

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[darkcyrus101]

I'm aware if its an online business, competition will be super fierce, people will always be able to cut you on price... especially for a low skill like video editing

 

[Kevin88660]

Hello all. I'm currently living in Malaysia. (1USD=4.5MYR) I'm deciding between a local business that would earn me MYR. ( i do have a couple of ideas fielded for my community...)

Or an online business/service that would earn me USD... thats the dilemma I'm facing now. But the only service I can think of to fulfill online now is video editing, which is probably seriously saturated as its low barrier to entry.

Soon I'll be forced to look for a physical job here, as my savings are running out, which means I'll have to trade my time for MYR, which is a pain...

The fact that I'm linked to international based forums and cultures keeps making me indecisive on Fastlane options

Anyone has any suggestions or experience with being in a lower currency country?

The upside is the cost of living is also lower, but it'll only be beneficial if i earn USD, which I've yet to succeed.

Thanks in advance!

Go to JB to start a business serving Singaporeans.

Me and my friends went cross the custom to hunt for bargains quite regularly.

Rm709 per pax for unlimited A5grade wagyu. Impossible in Singapore anywhere.

 

[Boy Muhammad]

I live in Nigeria 1$ = ₦1500, minimum wage is ₦30,000 a lot of people earn around that in a month, cost of living is pretty low too.

A lot of business here charges in ₦ and they're doing big numbers because the population is large around 300+ million, I'm sure Malaysia has a large population too, get in a business where you can sell or offer service to a lot of people and you won't bother about the exchange rate.

You'll have a bigger advantage starting a business in your country because you know the laws, culture, business you can improve on etc than online where everyone is selling coaching, affiliate marketing or some BS course.

 

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[darkcyrus101]

Go to JB to start a business serving Singaporeans.

Me and my friends cross the custom to hunt for bargains quite regularly.

$700RM per pax for unlimited A5grade wagyu. Impossible in Singapore anywhere.

RM700?

 

[Kevin88660]

RM700?

yes

With unlimited sashimi as well.

It is a lunch.

I made sure I had half dinner the day before, skipped breakfast, and that one lunch lasted whole day.

 

[darkcyrus101]

You'll have a bigger advantage starting a business in your country because you know the laws, culture, business you can improve on etc than online where everyone is selling coaching, affiliate marketing or some BS course.

Sounds true.

The only downside is I feel I could be missing out on USD and playing the wrong game as I feel I'm competing with my people (where its already a bad economy) for a weaker currency...

@MJ DeMarco any thoughts on people in countries with weaker currencies?

 

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[darkcyrus101]

yes

With unlimited sashimi as well.

It is a lunch.

I made sure I had half dinner the day before, skipped breakfast, and that one lunch lasted whole day.

Oh I see , you're singaporean. It didnt make sense to me at first.

I worked there for awhile and saved up some cash. Living off the conversions now while i attempt to build up the next biz

 

[MTF]

I used to believe that targeting the English-speaking world, or most likely, the US, was always the best idea.

These days, I'm not so sure. I've been to some places in the US and honestly, dozens of countries in the world are way nicer and look way richer. I've been to Kuala Lumpur as well and it looked way, way richer and more modern than Phoenix, Arizona (and both cities have similar populations though KL has much more outside of the city proper).

Of course, you may not have the same purchasing power but I'm pretty sure that Malaysia has way more economic growth ahead of it than the US. The local competition is most likely easier than the global English one. Since you're exposed to this forum, you can have an edge over local entrepreneurs who may not fully understand the Fastlane principles.

 

[wanttogofaster]

The only downside is I feel I could be missing out on USD and playing the wrong game as I feel I'm competing with my people (where its already a bad economy) for a weaker currency...

I would only be concerned about this if your country has exchange rate controls. I was in Malaysia a few years ago and don't remember anything like that. Have things changed?
Even then, many countries have exchange controls, and people (even their governments) find ways to facilitate the exchanges as they need foreign currency for international transactions.

I've been to Kuala Lumpur as well and it looked way, way richer and more modern than Phoenix, Arizona

Do you mean more skyscrapers and such?

 

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[Andy Black]

the only service I can think of to fulfill online now is video editing, which is probably seriously saturated as its low barrier to entry.

*Probably* seriously oversaturated?

Does that mean you've not tried to get a client yet?


Oh, and this might help:

NOTABLE! - MINDSET - No, Your Market Is Not Saturated (Wisdom From a 19th Century Book)

The college-student who was about graduating, said to an old lawyer: "I have not yet decided which profession I will follow. Is your profession full?" "The basement is much crowded, but there is plenty of room up-stairs," was the witty and truthful reply. No profession, trade, or calling, is...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

[darkcyrus101]

I would only be concerned about this if your country has exchange rate controls. I was in Malaysia a few years ago and don't remember anything like that. Have things changed?

Not that I know of. Its easy to convert to USD with an online platform called Wise. I exchange my SGD to MYR in seconds.

*Probably* seriously oversaturated?

Does that mean you've not tried to get a client yet?

Not for video editing no. But ive tried online fitness training. Posted content on instagram for a month got people on 7 sales calls but none closed. Probably not the best idea, and eventually ditched that.

I would assume its similar as its not too hard and the barrier of entry is lower.

Problem is i know abit of everything but master of none, so its a tough choice for me to choose my next step because i have literally so many options

 

[darkcyrus101]

Of course, you may not have the same purchasing power but I'm pretty sure that Malaysia has way more economic growth ahead of it than the US. The local competition is most likely easier than the global English one. Since you're exposed to this forum, you can have an edge over local entrepreneurs who may not fully understand the Fastlane principles.

Ur right on the purchasing power.

Forgive me, but how does greater economic growth translate to better for me? Do you mean the value of MYR may go up in the future?

 

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[darkcyrus101]

Oh, and this might help:

NOTABLE! - MINDSET - No, Your Market Is Not Saturated (Wisdom From a 19th Century Book)

The college-student who was about graduating, said to an old lawyer: "I have not yet decided which profession I will follow. Is your profession full?" "The basement is much crowded, but there is plenty of room up-stairs," was the witty and truthful reply. No profession, trade, or calling, is...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

I get the message but how else are we supposed to field ideas? For example, MJ in his Great Rat Race Escape constantly mentioned selling T shirts as overly saturated, low barrier to entry

 

[thecrusher]

I would highly recommend taking sales and marketing advice from the rest of the world and translating that to your local market.

Everyone and their dog is competing for English speaking traffic, while I’d wager many people couldn’t point Malaysia on a map.

That’s your advantage.

You mentioned you had 7 sales calls from fitness coaching. what language/country was that in?

Economic growth is good for you because if you’re in a growing market it’s like pushing a boulder downhill vs uphill.

 

[darkcyrus101]

I would highly recommend taking sales and marketing advice from the rest of the world and translating that to your local market.

Everyone and their dog is competing for English speaking traffic, while I’d wager many people couldn’t point Malaysia on a map.

That’s your advantage.

You mentioned you had 7 sales calls from fitness coaching. what language/country was that in?

Economic growth is good for you because if you’re in a growing market it’s like pushing a boulder downhill vs uphill.

One from the US. Others from india. Which is really bad because they cant even afford 50usd per month. IG apparently kept recommending my content to people in India for some reason

Ah I see. Economic growth= growing TAM.

 

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[Andy Black]

Not that I know of. Its easy to convert to USD with an online platform called Wise. I exchange my SGD to MYR in seconds.


Not for video editing no. But ive tried online fitness training. Posted content on instagram for a month got people on 7 sales calls but none closed. Probably not the best idea, and eventually ditched that.

I would assume its similar as its not too hard and the barrier of entry is lower.

Problem is i know abit of everything but master of none, so its a tough choice for me to choose my next step because i have literally so many options

Don't assume. Test.

Video editing is B2B whereas fitness coaching is B2C. It likely pays more, and could be regular. Also, you can just do someone's videos for them without their permission and send them the final product as a way to get them as a client, and build a portfolio. And video editing is a good skill you could use to build an audience with for yourself anyway.

Just start already.

 

[thecrusher]

One from the US. Others from india. Which is really bad because they cant even afford 50usd per month. IG apparently kept recommending my content to people in India for some reason

Ah I see. Economic growth= growing TAM.

Whats stopping you from publishing your fitness content in Malay and going after wealthy clients in Malaysia?

I wouldn’t say it’s growing TAM directly, but indirectly yes, more so spending power, confidence in spending etc.

 

[MTF]

Do you mean more skyscrapers and such?

Way more skyscrapers, constant construction of hundreds of new innovative buildings, better technological infrastructure, huge shopping malls, etc.

Then there's the fact that there are no homeless encampments in public parks, like seemingly in every major city in the US, and no problem with drug addicts, gun violence, etc.

At least in KL (I haven't been to other parts of Malaysia), you're extremely unlikely to fall victim to any violent crime which is very impressive considering the size of the city.

And for me, safety is also a sign of a developed, modern country. You can't be truly rich in a place where every day a random druggie can kill you with a gun. Malaysia (and most of Southeast Asia) is way, way more peaceful as a culture than the Americas.

Forgive me, but how does greater economic growth translate to better for me? Do you mean the value of MYR may go up in the future?

Building a business in a fast-growing economy is like riding a wave. Once you catch it, you can grow way faster than in a stable or contracting economy where there's no such push.

I'm from Poland and I've seen some crazy growth stories when the right product completely dominated the local market to the point it's now like an essential need (like this company: https://inpost.pl/en/about-inpost).

It's way easier to attract attention in a smaller market where not everything has been invented yet, similar to it being easier to get organic growth for your brick and mortar business in a small town compared to a big city (because in a small town everyone will talk about it).

Who cares that the local currency is weaker if you have a large enough market and way less competition? Also, you can always invest in other markets and currencies once your business brings enough income.

I used to think that it was easier to earn $1000 USD than 4000 PLN (roughly the equivalent in the Polish currency).

But then the recent years have taught me that competing in the English-speaking world means competing with not only the best talent in the rich English-speaking countries but also millions of people in poor countries who are fine working 12 hours for $5.

For an average person, the US is also rapidly becoming not such a great place to live compared to developing and still affordable safe countries like Malaysia. This means that more capital may flow into your market.

Then there's tons of spam, bots, and other stuff that's less prevalent in other languages simply because they aren't as widespread and don't allow sufficient scale for bad actors.

 

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[thecrusher]

Way more skyscrapers, constant construction of hundreds of new innovative buildings, better technological infrastructure, huge shopping malls, etc.

Then there's the fact that there are no homeless encampments in public parks, like seemingly in every major city in the US, and no problem with drug addicts, gun violence, etc.

At least in KL (I haven't been to other parts of Malaysia), you're extremely unlikely to fall victim to any violent crime which is very impressive considering the size of the city.

And for me, safety is also a sign of a developed, modern country. You can't be truly rich in a place where every day a random druggie can kill you with a gun. Malaysia (and most of Southeast Asia) is way, way more peaceful as a culture than the Americas.



Building a business in a fast-growing economy is like riding a wave. Once you catch it, you can grow way faster than in a stable or contracting economy where there's no such push.

I'm from Poland and I've seen some crazy growth stories when the right product completely dominated the local market to the point it's now like an essential need (like this company: https://inpost.pl/en/about-inpost).

It's way easier to attract attention in a smaller market where not everything has been invented yet, similar to it being easier to get organic growth for your brick and mortar business in a small town compared to a big city (because in a small town everyone will talk about it).

Who cares that the local currency is weaker if you have a large enough market and way less competition? Also, you can always invest in other markets and currencies once your business brings enough income.

I used to think that it was easier to earn $1000 USD than 4000 PLN (roughly the equivalent in the Polish currency).

But then the recent years have taught me that competing in the English-speaking world means competing with not only the best talent in the rich English-speaking countries but also millions of people in poor countries who are fine working 12 hours for $5.

For an average person, the US is also rapidly becoming not such a great place to live compared to developing and still affordable safe countries like Malaysia. This means that more capital may flow into your market.

Then there's tons of spam, bots, and other stuff that's less prevalent in other languages simply because they aren't as widespread and don't allow sufficient scale for bad actors.

Ha, no shit. I'm not from Poland but I currently live here and have done for a long time. I was also thinking of Poland when I said a growing market it’s like pushing a boulder downhill.

InPost is a great example. Another company which I think is incredible is Good Lood. They make 35mln PLN (around $8.9m USD) a year selling ice cream.

 

[darkcyrus101]

Whats stopping you from publishing your fitness content in Malay and going after wealthy clients in Malaysia?

I wouldn’t say it’s growing TAM directly, but indirectly yes, more so spending power, confidence in spending etc.

mostly intrinsic. I've come to realise that fitness isnt the industry that I'm passionate about. I like training but I really dislike training people. Another thing is i dont really like recording myself in front of a camera, and be an influencer. As with online fitness coaching, the product will be ME.

And based on my friends and family who are in the fitness space, the best 1 to 1 personal trainers average less than RM10k/month. (2k+ usd)(granted thats trading time and not a business system)

Anyway I've realised that it'll be hard for me to skew value in the fitness space as I need alot of time to get testimonials (fitness transformation can take really long), i need a good physique(I'm slightly above average), might be hard to compete with the roided jacked dudes as well.

So hence, I've decided to do something else.

 

[darkcyrus101]

At least in KL (I haven't been to other parts of Malaysia), you're extremely unlikely to fall victim to any violent crime which is very impressive considering the size of the city.

You're right. It is extremely safe here relatively.

It's way easier to attract attention in a smaller market where not everything has been invented yet, similar to it being easier to get organic growth for your brick and mortar business in a small town compared to a big city (because in a small town everyone will talk about it).

Who cares that the local currency is weaker if you have a large enough market and way less competition? Also, you can always invest in other markets and currencies once your business brings enough income.

You're right. Now I may lean more towards a local business then... Because cost may actually be higher if we're targeting the US market.

The first business i actually tried was dropshipping pet hair rollers to the US. I ran fb ads targeting the US and it burned through my wallet quick. RM1000($200+ dollars) burned through in a week with ~100 traffic to my site but no sales

 

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[ZF Lee]

Go to JB to start a business serving Singaporeans.

Me and my friends went cross the custom to hunt for bargains quite regularly.

Rm709 per pax for unlimited A5grade wagyu. Impossible in Singapore anywhere.

A good chunk of my current copywriting clients are Singaporeans lol.

I find it easier to serve as the time zone is the same...target audience (for the sales copy) has similar needs...and they use British English too. They also tend to use many marketing strategies from the American gurus...so you can quickly click with them if you also subscribe to those gurus. Unlike Malaysia here where a lower overall TAM gets brands complacent with their marketing...and leaves less room for improvement in various areas especially their systems.

A headache to work with clients with bad (or ZERO) systems.

One thing on video editing:

Video editing is B2B

One of my newest clients is a content marketing agency that does TikTok videos for...Singaporean real estate agents.

I never KNEW such an offer could exist until I got a referral to this chap. I'm starting to do TikTok scripts for them, while pulling in what I learnt from my usual email gigs.

Since SG is so land-scarce and everybody is fighting for their first home (a HDB unit recently hit the $2 million mark)...they need all the intel they can get to snap up their deals right. Which is where the agency comes in...it asks questions to the agents and turns them into educational videos that builds a following on TikTok.

So I think the video editing gig could work. Especially if you use it to break down complicated information, and help people buy/sell faster.

SG property of course needs some domain experience though. Thankfully my client had me read daily property articles to help me onboard.

 

[piano]

Building a business in a fast-growing economy is like riding a wave. Once you catch it, you can grow way faster than in a stable or contracting economy where there's no such push.

I'm from Poland and I've seen some crazy growth stories when the right product completely dominated the local market to the point it's now like an essential need (like this company: https://inpost.pl/en/about-inpost).

It's way easier to attract attention in a smaller market where not everything has been invented yet, similar to it being easier to get organic growth for your brick and mortar business in a small town compared to a big city (because in a small town everyone will talk about it).

Who cares that the local currency is weaker if you have a large enough market and way less competition? Also, you can always invest in other markets and currencies once your business brings enough income.

I used to think that it was easier to earn $1000 USD than 4000 PLN (roughly the equivalent in the Polish currency).

But then the recent years have taught me that competing in the English-speaking world means competing with not only the best talent in the rich English-speaking countries but also millions of people in poor countries who are fine working 12 hours for $5.

For an average person, the US is also rapidly becoming not such a great place to live compared to developing and still affordable safe countries like Malaysia. This means that more capital may flow into your market.

Then there's tons of spam, bots, and other stuff that's less prevalent in other languages simply because they aren't as widespread and don't allow sufficient scale for bad actors.

Always interesting to hear these things from you.

I hope this question isn't too self-centered but I've wondered for a long time now;
If you were in a steady economy like the USA or Germany but had a citizenship in a fast-developing country like Poland and could already speak it roughly (in my case my mother tongue but forgot lots of it, getting better though) would you move to Poland for business as a young person?

I feel like there is less buying power, particularly service-businesses I can't imagine doing as well as in the USA or Germany.
And if you don't have any qualifications/education to give you special opportunities, I wonder what chances else there are.

Because I've been thinking about moving to Poland one day and wondering if I should do business only in Germany though (at least while in the beginning stages. Things probably look different if you have more money to use).

What do you think? I still have a comparably very small understanding of business and particularly Poland.

I'll be visiting it in August though for my driver's license (LOL). I'll also try out the places you recommended. Hopefully it won't be 40°C like last time...
Maybe I'll even visit a few other cities per train (Ps: train prices in Poland compared to Germany are GODLY).

Pozdrówki!

 

[NervesOfSteel]

Grass is always greener on the other side.

Start with what you have.
You're not in US. Digest the reality.
Start a local business based on fast lane principles. Grow locally, then go global.

Anyway, AI will destroy the video editing industry pretty soon.

 

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[thecrusher]

Always interesting to hear these things from you.

I hope this question isn't too self-centered but I've wondered for a long time now;
If you were in a steady economy like the USA or Germany but had a citizenship in a fast-developing country like Poland and could already speak it roughly (in my case my mother tongue but forgot lots of it, getting better though) would you move to Poland for business as a young person?

I feel like there is less buying power, particularly service-businesses I can't imagine doing as well as in the USA or Germany.
And if you don't have any qualifications/education to give you special opportunities, I wonder what chances else there are.

Because I've been thinking about moving to Poland one day and wondering if I should do business only in Germany though (at least while in the beginning stages. Things probably look different if you have more money to use).

What do you think? I still have a comparably very small understanding of business and particularly Poland.

I'll be visiting it in August though for my driver's license (LOL). I'll also try out the places you recommended. Hopefully it won't be 40°C like last time...
Maybe I'll even visit a few other cities per train (Ps: train prices in Poland compared to Germany are GODLY).

Pozdrówki!

You didn't ask me, but I 100% believe this country has one of the best prospects in Europe for people who want it and speak the language.

Honestly, if you have a pulse, can pick up the phone, reply to emails, do what you say you're going to do, when you say you're going to do it and do it sober, you will clean up in the market.

 

[wanttogofaster]

Way more skyscrapers, constant construction of hundreds of new innovative buildings, better technological infrastructure, huge shopping malls, etc.

Then there's the fact that there are no homeless encampments in public parks, like seemingly in every major city in the US, and no problem with drug addicts, gun violence, etc.

At least in KL (I haven't been to other parts of Malaysia), you're extremely unlikely to fall victim to any violent crime which is very impressive considering the size of the city.

And for me, safety is also a sign of a developed, modern country. You can't be truly rich in a place where every day a random druggie can kill you with a gun. Malaysia (and most of Southeast Asia) is way, way more peaceful as a culture than the Americas.

Fair points. I don't live in Phoenix, but I like hearing other's opinions about our country.

I've done quite a bit of travel and what I've noticed in many places is that the main avenues have all the nice malls, skyscrapers, modern infrastructure, etc, but when you go a few blocks from the main avenues you start seeing a very different picture.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed KL. But it didn't strike me as way richer than Phoenix (I looked it up and KL has a GDP of $50B while Phoenix has a GDP of over $300B). A big city like KL grows vertically, so it is easier to see it if you're walking downtown, while Phoenix and most cities here in the US continue spreading out.

Here in the US, there has been a massive shift from B&M (malls, strip malls) to online shopping. Many malls have closed down, but many others, mostly those that offer a good mix of shopping and dining/entertainment options, still do well. In other countries, people still do most of their shopping in person.
That's not even considering population density. I can see malls getting packed when you have 1M people within a 1-mile radius vs 1M people within a 20-mile radius.

One thing I can't stand about many places in Asia is the number of motorcycles on the road. I understand they're cheaper and that not everyone can afford a car, but they make traffic a mess, and to be honest, they don't strike me as a "wealth" sign.

As far as the homeless population, it is tricky. Substance abuse, different cultures, zoning laws, and many other issues. In most of the world, when someone doesn't have a home, they move in with a relative (it's happening more here, but not at the same level), or they are either allowed or no one cares if they build a hut, shack, small house or whatever you want to call it in between or above another house. They can use palms, mud, or brick, it doesn't matter as long as they have a roof over their heads. Here, many cities are now allowing ADUs, but you still have to have a big enough lot, and you still have to meet the rest of the local ordinances and building codes.

I like organization, and I wouldn't want anyone building anything between my house and my neighbor's house like they do in other countries. I may as well be called a NIMBY because I understand such a shift would help keep people off the streets.

In regards to the safety aspect, while I've never felt threatened here, I understand it can be a concern for many people.

Now back on topic. As I said, I would have no concerns about starting a business in a developing country, even less in one as rich as Malaysia.

 

[MTF]

Another company which I think is incredible is Good Lood. They make 35mln PLN (around $8.9m USD) a year selling ice cream.

It's only revenue. Net is laughable 1.1 mln PLN which is like $275k a year and less than what many people in IT make by themselves working a 9 to 5 job.

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www.bizraport.pl

If you were in a steady economy like the USA or Germany but had a citizenship in a fast-developing country like Poland and could already speak it roughly (in my case my mother tongue but forgot lots of it, getting better though) would you move to Poland for business as a young person?

In Germany I've only spent some time in Berlin which I've found dirty, full of drug addicts (I was shocked to see that in Europe), and very backward (I hated that most places were cash only). It looked like Poland in the 80s lol.

I imagine that some cities in Germany are way better so I can't speak about the entire country. But overall, Germany is super industrialized and in Poland, mostly the Silesian region is like that. So it depends on the type of business and the area where you'd like to live.

In general, I'd say that Poland is more dynamic than Germany. There are way more young people (I'm always shocked how old Germany and other German-speaking countries are) and almost non-existent problems with immigrants (which is not the case in Germany). I've also noticed that much fewer people want to move abroad for job opportunities.

I think that the best shot at getting rich is still in Warsaw. It's by far the richest, most modern, and most impressive big city in Poland. Kraków, the second largest city, looks like a village when compared to Warsaw.

I feel like there is less buying power, particularly service-businesses I can't imagine doing as well as in the USA or Germany.

Poland is not ridiculously consumerist like the US so you won't be able to sell made-up services and products. You also can't really do that well with services for homeowners because most people in big cities live in apartments so no mowing lawns, no cleaning windows, etc.

But e-commerce is incredibly huge in Poland, the restaurant scene is very solid in big cities, the real estate market is hot, tourism is growing, there's a startup scene and lots of talented tech people, and there's a growing number of millionaires.

You didn't ask me, but I 100% believe this country has one of the best prospects in Europe for people who want it and speak the language.

There's no other such big and rapidly-developing country as Poland in Europe. Probably the second closest is Romania but it has half the population of Poland.

 

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[MTF]

I've done quite a bit of travel and what I've noticed in many places is that the main avenues have all the nice malls, skyscrapers, modern infrastructure, etc, but when you go a few blocks from the main avenues you start seeing a very different picture.

Of course that's the case for some places. In this case, it's also the same for the US, though.

I'm pretty sure that almost every big city in the US has at least a few super sketchy neighborhoods where you're super likely to be robbed or killed if you go there. Compared to big cities in Europe or Asia, almost no such zones exist there. Yeah, in Asia and parts of Europe maybe you'll see some poverty but not crime. But this is a separate topic.

But it didn't strike me as way richer than Phoenix (I looked it up and KL has a GDP of $50B while Phoenix has a GDP of over $300B).

If you compare life quality, I wouldn't be surprised to see an average person in KL working less and being able to afford more than an average resident of Phoenix who's deep into debt and doesn't have any vacation days.

A big city like KL grows vertically, so it is easier to see it if you're walking downtown, while Phoenix and most cities here in the US continue spreading out.

Fair point. It's just way more impressive to see a concentrated skyline than a city spread out over hours of driving with nothing but houses.

One thing I can't stand about many places in Asia is the number of motorcycles on the road. I understand they're cheaper and that not everyone can afford a car, but they make traffic a mess, and to be honest, they don't strike me as a "wealth" sign.

Yeah I don't like the traffic there, either. I'm not a fan of Asia in general as a place to live for me (but I can understand why others like it).

In most of the world, when someone doesn't have a home, they move in with a relative (it's happening more here, but not at the same level), or they are either allowed or no one cares if they build a hut, shack, small house or whatever you want to call it in between or above another house.

In most countries in the world people don't become homeless because they can't pay their medical bills or lose a job and can't pay rent. It's not about the availability of places to live in but about the broken support system in the US. I'd rather pay higher taxes (though in Poland taxes are way lower than in the US) so the country offers a social net and there aren't hundreds of homeless people everywhere.

What other countries have you visited that you felt offered more than the United States or where you think you'd live a better life or have better economic opportunities?

 

[wanttogofaster]

Of course that's the case for some places. In this case, it's also the same for the US, though.

Sure, but I find the contrast much more obvious in other places.

If you compare life quality, I wouldn't be surprised to see an average person in KL working less and being able to afford more than an average resident of Phoenix who's deep into debt and doesn't have any vacation days.

It all comes down to choices, ambition, and lifestyle differences. I know people in South America who work as much if not more than others I know in the US. I can see someone not needing a car and using the reliable mass transit system in her/his big Asian city, while someone in Phoenix is forced to have a vehicle.

In most countries in the world people don't become homeless because they can't pay their medical bills or lose a job and can't pay rent. It's not about the availability of places to live in but about the broken support system in the US. I'd rather pay higher taxes (though in Poland taxes are way lower than in the US) so the country offers a social net and there aren't hundreds of homeless people everywhere.

I agree our healthcare system is broken. But people here do have a safety net. I'm not a subject matter expert, but I believe the homeless problem has more to do with substance abuse and affordability than anything else.

What other countries have you visited that you felt offered more than the United States or where you think you'd live a better life or have better economic opportunities?

It depends on how you define a better life.
These days, to us, a better life would include having a maid and cook lol.

We do want to spend time overseas to expose ourselves and our kids to other cultures. We've heard good things about Spain so we're spending time there this summer. However, when I go on Idealista and look for homes, the homes I would consider living in if we ever moved there are either about the same or more expensive than the one we have here. Sure, there are other positives about moving, but from a cost of living standpoint, it seems to be about the same. We'll find out this summer.

As far as economic opportunities, I'm not sure. I believe there are opportunities everywhere. Some countries are more business-friendly (as in less bureaucracy) than others.
What is your opinion? What countries do you like?