Hello from Denver - self publishing success

[Held for Ransom]

Hey WC,

My first month, I published three books across Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo and Smashwords.

In all, for the entire month, I sold 21 books. Those freaking books took me forever to write and I *barely* made $40.

Not the greatest of starts. My wife thought I was nuts. :coco:

Anyway, fast forward 8 months and 20+ novellas later and I broke the symbolic $10,000 in a month barrier. Since then, I've struggled with all sorts of various issues but I just kept at it. Today, I bounce around between $15,000 - $20,000 most months and I currently put out a novella a month.

Now, is that "legendary" money? No. Of course not. It's "good" money. It's hard to believe that's what I consider $15,000 a month now but it's the truth. When you start making more, $15,000 won't seem that great.

Still, what earning "good" money has done for me was give me two things I hadn't ever had in abundance in all the years of trying to become successful - time and options. Now, I have both of those and my family *finally* has some breathing room to really accelerate things.

As for me, I aiming for "legendary" money now but as you can see, I'm still a ways off. In my mind, that looks like six figures monthly but at the same time, it will take a lot of time and a lot more books. I think that building a business as an independent publisher is really no different from any other business you read about on here. What I mean is that "overnight success" usually takes more than a few books (and a few months) to manifest itself.

Sure, you'll have breakout authors like Jasinda Wilder but if I were you, I wouldn't waste time comparing my results to theirs. Rather, consider the fact that you are playing on a field where the home run is a real possibility. That's far more important. It's like MJ says, you have to play on a field where you can hit home runs and with e-books, at least with fiction, it's possible.

The last thing I would say is that it could be that writing in the genre you're in or just writing in general isn't for you. That's something that only you can decide. Frustration and doubt is normal but believe me, if you want to do this badly enough you can. I've been fortunate enough to get PMs from other folks here that are really doing well. I won't mention names because they've asked me not to but trust me, there are people here that are doing very well and haven't been at it all that long either.

I hope that's somewhat encouraging to you. I understand your struggles as much as anyone here which is why I felt compelled to chime in.

Here's some links to some things that you might find inspirational/helpful:

List of the top selling authors at Kindle Boards. Take note of how long most of them have been at it. And, that's just with Kindle. Most of them have years of prior writing experience.

The collected posts of H.M. Ward. The thing to consider is this woman's fanatical work ethic - she's a beast.

Here's a particularly relevant quote from her this past June...

Dut du-duuuuuuh! The impossible has happened. These are crazy times, people! Crazy! I passed the million books sold mark this month. The only reason I noticed was because a KBer asked for my sales numbers for May. I did a double take when I tallied them up. I was all bleary eyed after being at a funeral and assumed my brain broke. I don't talk too much about numbers or money, but we were so strapped when I started self pubbing. I had tons of medical bills and have been sick for so long that I didn't think I'd get better. OMG. Anyway, I paid my medical bills and was able to buy a house. We're moving out of the 'hood! Hooray!

I just wanted to share. Everything happened so fast that I still feel blindsided, but in a good way.

My first month of publishing March 2011, I sold 20+ books
My second month 200+
In Jan 2013 I passed 100,000 books sold total

Total number of published works: 37 (about 1/2 novellas, 1/2 novels)

I don't know if that's helpful but it's the truth as I see it with over a year in the game now.

 

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[webcomber]

Hey WC,

My first month, I published three books across Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo and Smashwords.

In all, for the entire month, I sold 21 books. Those freaking books took me forever to write and I *barely* made $40.

Not the greatest of starts. My wife thought I was nuts. :coco:

Hello HfR,
It is great to hear from you! I felt a bit lost there, as if my experience was unusual, as in unusually bad. I am not sure how these guys started writing more books without some inspiration. Now that I know that you and the legendary H.M. Ward had similar experiences, I feel much more hopeful.

Sure, you'll have breakout authors like Jasinda Wilder but if I were you, I wouldn't waste time comparing my results to theirs.

It did not take you long to figure out my author reference. I felt her story was pretty compelling, and I found similar stories and started thinking all of these authors had the same experience. Thank you for sharing with us that this is definitely NOT the case. Apparently they are the exception, not the rule for success.

Rather, consider the fact that you are playing on a field where the home run is a real possibility. That's far more important. It's like MJ says, you have to play on a field where you can hit home runs and with e-books, at least with fiction, it's possible.

This really gets to the root of my question. Am I playing on a platform where "big" money and even "legendary" money is even possible, or rather probable with hard work? You and MJ have done a great service in getting it through my thick head that it is not about what I "love" to do and its not about my "passion." It's about what the market wants . . . period.
And in this case it is Kindle, and specifically fiction.

The last thing I would say is that it could be that writing in the genre you're in or just writing in general isn't for you. That's something that only you can decide. Frustration and doubt is normal but believe me, if you want to do this badly enough you can.

Now that I know that this is a viable patform based on other authors' more "real" and grounded experiences in battling initial doubt, then yes, I can absolutely write in a genre in demand. That H.M. Ward quote is gold. This is great insight into the self-publishing experience. Thank you again HfR.
WC

 

[Breaking Free]

WC,

Have you started a progress thread? Several of us writers have done that, and we've seen similar results. As a matter of fact, I think HfR's early results have been better than mine, but I also believe I'm targeting a much different market.

The more research I do, the more I see how it's possible to achieve this success. HfR is right, you have to treat it as a business, and give your customer what they want. My customers don't care for shorter works, but some genres do, so you have to get a feel for what sells and what doesn't.

 

[COSenior]

My first month, I published three books across Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo and Smashwords.

In all, for the entire month, I sold 21 books. Those freaking books took me forever to write and I *barely* made $40.

I've heard this advice from HfR and others so often (what he responded to your post), that I don't stress about sales any more, at least no more than human nature dictates. Am I envious of the sales of others in this group? Of course, and that includes yours. But some of us have started a mantra: Just Keep Writing. If you're making any sales, you're ahead of the crowd. Build your catalog and keep going...and please start a progress thread. It seems to encourage all of us when any of us posts anything. Those who are seeing disappointing sales can gain hope from those who have more, and seeing that someone else is struggling often makes one feel as if he isn't alone.

 

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[Held for Ransom]

WC,

Great comments here from all the writers. I feel everyone's pain coming through the collective keyboards! FWIW, I second you starting a progress thread if you feel it will help you.

Also, I forgot to mention that my wife pubbed her first novella recently. It's been around a month since she released it.

Guess what?

10 copies sold.

That's the way the game is when you get going. She knows it. In fact, she only asked me a couple of times if it had sold at all. She's got her eyes on finishing a couple of trilogies before she even comes up for air. She writes Romance by the way.

Granted, she has the benefit of my experience to not get down, off track or whatever but I guess my point is that we all start out at the bottom with a new pen name. Myself included. My new one starts in January and I'm sure I'll be right back at square one with that one. It's a multi-year play for me though. I'm focused on making that pen name the one that gets me where I want to be.

Anyway, the only things that always work in this writing game are time and typing and hitting publish - over and over and over.

Sure, there's plenty of other things you can do from a marketing standpoint but at the end of the day, it's all about you and that keyboard.

It is boring as hell sometimes but man does it work.

 

[Breaking Free]

By the way, welcome back HfR

 

[webcomber]

WC,

Have you started a progress thread? Several of us writers have done that, and we've seen similar results.

I have not started one yet. I am still searching through genres and trying to figure out what works. I was thinking when I make some progress, for example what did I do, cover change, company, photographer, or something. Also, whether it was a collection. I am thinking of splitting one book up into three parts for example. So far I don't have much data.

The more research I do, the more I see how it's possible to achieve this success. HfR is right, you have to treat it as a business, and give your customer what they want. My customers don't care for shorter works, but some genres do, so you have to get a feel for what sells and what doesn't.

I had a book that was 27 pages that sold just as much as the same book with an added 50 pages. I felt I needed to add more pages to get more sales, but it did not matter at all! I should have just made a second book out of the extra 50 pages.

But I have not tested the second book theory yet, and then later a third as a collection. Seems the popular and proven route to go. I may test this and start a thread to share results.

 

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[Held for Ransom]

But I have not tested the second book theory yet, and then later a third as a collection. Seems the popular and proven route to go. I may test this and start a thread to share results.

Collections, bundles, box sets, etc. are easy money. I have no fewer than seven or eight of them at this point. As an added bonus, the last four I put out all hit the HNRs for their genre. Keep in mind that they are all comprised of books that hit the very same HNRs months earlier!

What I do is basically wait until sales for the individual titles have dried up (< 5 or 10 a day over a period of a few weeks or a month). Then, I just bundle them up and sell them all over again.

It is seriously like printing money.

Even better, you'd think that the collection sales would totally decimate the sales of the individual titles but in my experience, the overall impact isn't that bad. Add to that the fact that when you bundle up 3, 4 or 5 stories at once you can charge a premium for it and it's a no brainer.

That's another reason why I don't get too bogged down on the sales of individual titles. I've had plenty of books that didn't sell very well but yet, when I bundle them up, they take off.

Bargain hunters I guess...

 

[webcomber]

Hello HfR -

Collections, bundles, box sets, etc. are easy money. I have no fewer than seven or eight of them at this point. As an added bonus, the last four I put out all hit the HNRs for their genre. Keep in mind that they are all comprised of books that hit the very same HNRs months earlier!

This is more great info! When you bundle a set of books, do you also bundle unrelated books together? If so, how do you bring them together as a boxed set (e.g. something like early works, bestsellers, etc.)
Also, in light of how well collections sell, when you start writing a book do you now typically intend for it to be part of a series, or do you start new unrelated books just as often?
Thanks -
WC

 

[jimr]

I've published my first book. I know it's later than I intended but I had to fix some formatting issues and wasn't 100% happy with the cover. I haven't promoted anywhere yet as I want to see how what kind of traffic and interest the book brings from just being on Amazon. That said, I have looked at some of the forums where readers on GoodReads will review a book and will seek some feedback there.

Anyway, I'll report back in a week and let you know how things are going and will kick off a progress thread this weekend as I've already started book two.

Anyone else that may have been procrastinating when it comes to pulling the trigger - just do it.

 

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[COSenior]

What I do is basically wait until sales for the individual titles have dried up (< 5 or 10 a day over a period of a few weeks or a month). Then, I just bundle them up and sell them all over again.

What would you recommend for an author whose sales never got to 5 or 10 a day in the first place, regarding bundling series. These are books that I basically intend to withdraw once I find my niche, but right now I only have eight in my catalog, and I know I've got a way to go before I'll sell much. I had intended to bundle two series to release in December, one that is complete, one that I've published book 1 and a prequel and started book 2 of 3. Should I wait to start bundling until my overall sales have increased with a larger catalog?

 

[Held for Ransom]

When you bundle a set of books, do you also bundle unrelated books together? If so, how do you bring them together as a boxed set (e.g. something like early works, bestsellers, etc.) Also, in light of how well collections sell, when you start writing a book do you now typically intend for it to be part of a series, or do you start new unrelated books just as often?

Early works... hmmmm. Sounds like a Christmas time box set to me!

Ideally, if you can write your stuff in a series, it's automatically heading to a bundled status at some point. But, I have plenty of standalones that I've managed to group together as well.

More below...

What would you recommend for an author whose sales never got to 5 or 10 a day in the first place, regarding bundling series.

Yeah, I get that. That's not cast in stone - those numbers - it's kind of how things have evolved for me.

Remember the first three books I wrote? The ones that only sold 21 copies their first month?

Way back when, that was my first bundle/box set. It took me around three hours to combine the three titles, write a brief description, come up with a cover and upload it to all the various sites. As of the time of this post, it's been 408 days since I put it together. I sell (on average) one of those every other day at $5.99 a piece. In total, the collection has earned nearly as much as the other three titles combined - 83% of the total to be exact.

I think that if it makes sense at all to combine what you've got, it's worth a shot. Really, the only limit to bundles is your imagination. I have bundles based on serials, bundles based on various themes and on and on. When you build up a fan base, they want everything you put out there. It's like when a musician puts out a greatest hits album. How many times does the same song show up on like ten greatest hits albums? I mean, it happens all the time.

Why should books be any different?

At the same time, I don't want a buyer to be confused or think they are getting something that they don't already own. So, I always put a disclaimer in the description telling folks that if they've already picked up these books before there is *no need* to buy the collection.

Guess what?

People that own it buy it anyway...

I know that because I send notifications to my list and since they all buy through my Amazon links, I know that a percentage of my sales comes from people that already own the individual titles.

I think the bottom line is that I try to think like a publishing company. Each of these books are digital assets that I can repackage, retitle and resell any way I want.

 

[webcomber]

Hello HfR,

I have not read much discussion regarding keywords, and I am assuming it is virtually impossible to see the keywords of other books short of just searching on Amazon. I have heard of everything from typing in your genre and using what Amazon fills in the autocomplete selections, to using other popular books in your genre. I have even read posts that said to insert popular author names, book titles, and sub-categories in your genre.

However, I have no proof that Amazon's algorithm actually works this way. I did read Amazon's keyword section, but really do not know what makes virtually identical books vary so differently in the rankings (unpromoted).

I would rather just write books and publish them, but one of my blind spots is trying to know how these variables work in the background.

May I ask you what your strategy is for keywords and categories? Is this important at all?

Thanks -
WC

 

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[Held for Ransom]

Hey WC,

Uhhm yeah, actually I do have some thoughts on that subject and also some data that you may find useful. Give me a few days to track it down and put it all together. I'm in the midst of wrapping up my latest novella so it probably won't be until sometime over the weekend or early next week before I can get it all organized.

When I get it together, I'll post it to this thread which I had intended to start pending interest from anyone. No one seemed overly curious so I dropped it.

Anyway, if you can wait a few days, I should be able to put something (hopefully) useful together.

 

[Jonleehacker]

No one seemed overly curious so I dropped it.

Hey, I resent being called "no one"

I am still waiting patiently...

 

[AnneC]

Finally got a chance to sit down and read through this entire thread. My mind has been blown. Thank you to everyone for the great information, especially HFR. I'm fighting the urge to jump on the writing bandwagon!

 

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[COSenior]

I'm fighting the urge to jump on the writing bandwagon!

Why fight it?

 

[Held for Ransom]

Hey, I resent being called "no one"

I would never dream of that. It's a data collection issue my friend!

Why fight it?

Ummm, yeah?

 

[Lorven]

Hi HfR, thanks again for this amazing thread!

I was wondering if I might be able to get a copy of the tool you use? Thanks so much!

By the way, your advice on bundling is awesome. I'm definitely going to take advantage of that once I have a few books out. I've got 4 written and 2 for sale so far, thanks in large part to the inspiration from this thread.

 

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[Mark Anthony Le]

AHHHHH.

I feel on top of the world.

I published my first book ever since completing this thread.

It feels so good.

Thank you so much HFR. You gave me the much needed kick in the a$$ to keep things moving along.

 

[Mark Anthony Le]

Speaking of which, HFRs, I sent you a PM about the tool. Is there any chance that I could try it out if it's not too late?

 

[Held for Ransom]

Yeah, sorry about that. I have so many PMs at the moment. I'm way behind on those. I'll get it over to you this weekend.

 

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[Mark Anthony Le]

Yeah, sorry about that. I have so many PMs at the moment. I'm way behind on those. I'll get it over to you this weekend.

Thanks mate.

On another note, what ever happened to the idea of a writing group?

I wouldn't mind creating a specific writing group page for us so we can all congregate and share ideas over social media/facebook

 

[Jonleehacker]

On another note, what ever happened to the idea of a writing group?

That's a great idea. But I think people don't like the idea of sharing their pen names, niches etc.

I'd be in though.

 

[Mark Anthony Le]

That's a great idea. But I think people don't like the idea of sharing their pen names, niches etc.

I'd be in though.

I don't think you have to release a pen name to have a writers group. It could be a nice motivation accountability group or something.

It'll do us wonders.

 

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[jimr]

Ok, so I was intending to create a new thread detailing my progress but I don't have permissions to do it yet. Instead, here's a quick rundown of how I've done so far.

First book took about two months to write - this might seem like a long time but I was cramming in the words between my managerial job, a 1 1/2 hour commute (each way) and spending time with my young children (oh, and maintaining a training programme in preparation for an arduous event I'm planning with a work colleague). The book came out at 42,000 words which I was relatively happy with.

Proof reading - hit up a friend of mine who has a brain the size of a planet and asked her to do the honours. One week later, she sent me back an anotated draft showing all the mistakes, typos and grammatical errors.

Editing - two days to tidy up the problems she found and make sure the look and feel was right.

Cover - three day turn around on a cover created by a guy over at fiverr.com

Publishing - went live on 25th Oct but the process took me about two hours (guess I should have read the instructions instead of thinking "I'm a man who works in technology - I don't need no stinking instructions!"

Results - Two sales in three days then it went quiet. Decided to run a free download offer on Amazon and the downloads started to take off. Since I created the free download offer, I've been hitting 12 - 14 downloads a day (been running for 2 days now). It might seem oddd to some readers but I think pushing your first books, or alternating books, as freebies does pull in the readers and helps to build your name. Besides, you can always charge for the free books at a later date.

Next steps - book 2 started. Now ten thousand words in and I genuinely feel that I'm learning from the experience as my writing is getting faster and the story is flowing better than book one.

I will be writing in several genres that are of interest to me until I find the one that a) brings the most sales and b) feels most comfortable to write in.

I'm also reading book from a number of popular authors to see how they use style/suspense/hooks/etc to create a loyal fan base.

That's all for now. Once I can create a thread from scratch I will build a proper progress thread.

***UPDATE***

The free promotion seems to be doing well - 47 downloads in the past few hours. No reviews yet, will report back tomorrow.

 

[COSenior]

I don't think you have to release a pen name to have a writers group. It could be a nice motivation accountability group or something.

It seems to me that the sub-forum this thread is in serves the purpose fairly well. I know there are others lurking, but we've got a core group who post to progress threads often. But, if that idea gets resurrected, sans pen name reveal, I'm in, too.

 

[Held for Ransom]

I know there are others lurking...

Yes, in fact I know one who was in the past few months one of the Top 10 authors in probably one of the Top 5 toughest genres on Amazon. He was the only self pub on that list.

This person is a bad a$$ or at least as much of a bad a$$ as a writer can be.

He's never posted here but is a member! It's a pity. I can't seem to make any argument compelling enough to get him involved. I guess he's too busy raking in mid five figures every month to care.

Did I mention he has has 100+ books spread across a number of pen names in different genres written over MANY YEARS?

Yeah, dude writes a lot. Weird huh?

COSenior is dead on. The information that's already here (plus KBoards and maybe some niche ones depending on your genre) is plenty for anyone to do well.

And speaking for myself, the LAST THING I need is another place to write about writing instead of actually writing...

 

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[jimr]

***UPDATE***

Letting kindle owners download my first book for free seems to be working out - yesterday, over 100 copies were downloaded. To some readers, it might seem strange that I'm happy my book is almost being given away - but it's not really. Letting readers download your book for free exposes it to more people. This will help you to find out what works AND build a fan base you can really sell to. Besides, the free download promoation is time limited on Amazon.

On a more interesting note, my seller rank is 800 on one medium sized genre and 2,000 in the thriller genre. Although I'm not at the top of my game - yet - I never thought I'd hit those ranks with my first book and in such a short time (even if I "sold" it for free) in a genre where the likes of Stephen King (hero of mine), James Herbert (bigger hero, cause I'm a Brit )publish.

Ok, I'll stop there . I'm pleased, as you can probably tell, but more importantly, this shows that anyone with a bit determination can do this. Now, go to it!

 

[Mark Anthony Le]

***UPDATE***

Letting kindle owners download my first book for free seems to be working out - yesterday, over 100 copies were downloaded. To some readers, it might seem strange that I'm happy my book is almost being given away - but it's not really. Letting readers download your book for free exposes it to more people. This will help you to find out what works AND build a fan base you can really sell to. Besides, the free download promoation is time limited on Amazon.

On a more interesting note, my seller rank is 800 on one medium sized genre and 2,000 in the thriller genre. Although I'm not at the top of my game - yet - I never thought I'd hit those ranks with my first book and in such a short time (even if I "sold" it for free) in a genre where the likes of Stephen King (hero of mine), James Herbert (bigger hero, cause I'm a Brit )publish.

Ok, I'll stop there . I'm pleased, as you can probably tell, but more importantly, this shows that anyone with a bit determination can do this. Now, go to it!

Keep at it man! We're all in it for long haul