Needs to be said... sell the DAMN motorcycle.

[StrikingViper69]

I'll have to play devils advocate here...

First of all I completely agree with the fact that riding a motorcycle is dangerous, and it can lead to VERY real consequences such as death or becoming disabled....

But so can snowboarding, parashute jumping, rafting, paragliding, MTB downhil and bmx racing and other extreme sports...

Should we stop engaging in these activities all-together?

The point is - sure the death and trauma are very real possibilities...

But ultimately that's why people engage in extreme sports isn't it?

We like to overcome adversity - some enjoy it less, some more, but there is something very thrilling about being an inch from a tragedy and still surviving.

The feeling of beating the fear of death for a second is MINDBLOWING.

I think that's the whole point.

The risk is very real... and I think that is the EXACT reason, why people like extreme sports.

And sure riding can be compared to cigaretes... maybe even cocaine - the dopamine rush from it is much more powerful, than the rush from smoking.

Maybe one day I'll look back at myself and think ''Woah, I was very, very wrong about this...''

But for now:

I think the main difference with motorcycle riding, is that the risk is disproportionately placed in other peoples hands.

With all those extreme sports, you can get injured, but you can also dial things back if its getting too hairy. You can train, plan and prepare. Going downhill too fast? Ease on the brakes.

With a motorbike, there is absolutely nothing you can do about someone else not paying attention and wiping you out.

 

[HoneyBadger302]

We're not getting out of this alive. I choose to ride. On the street it is very limited and I trailer my bikes out of the city and into the mountains before swinging a leg over. I ride according to the environment - 'stuff' happens, people drive like jerks, nature does nature things, and you need to ride accordingly, and assistance is probably 30-60 minutes away at a minimum.

I also race, and for me, the risk is more than worth the reward. It is not for many, and I would actively discourage anyone from doing it who isn't completely committed and aware of the risks. I have no kids or dependent family, and for me, it makes life worth living.

I'm perfectly okay with it not being a popular choice for anyone scared of the consequences - the consequences can be very real. While gear is light years ahead of where it was less than 10 years ago, it's still a dangerous sport. To each their own, I see riding a pedal bicycle on a mountain road with no shoulder even more dumb than my choices, yet many consider that to be perfectly acceptable...

Everyone has the "they knew someone...." story. I could dredge some up for every sport, event, activity that exists, including living the bubble wrap life safe in your home sitting on your chair day in and day out avoiding all the scary things outside that might get you.

Not worth it for you? Please don't do it. Find what you DO enjoy and is worth it for you.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

A helmet and situational awareness are the best safety gear.

You seem to think you can control the risks by making good choices. You cannot.

Why?

Because you cannot control being surrounded by distracted idiots. It is 10X worse today than it was 25 years ago, pre-social media.

When you get into an accident, and I do say WHEN, it won't be because you were in error or made a bad choice in gear, it was because probability caught up to you ... on any ride into the city or around your neighborhood, you're guaranteed to be around 10000 morons who are too distracted to notice you.

I'm willing to accept responsibility for my own negligence. But I refuse to be paralyzed from the neck down because some teenage girl thought texting her boyfriend was more important.

That is the difference.

You cannot decide and think your way out from what amounts to a probabilistic nightmare.

But I do wish you luck.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

This thread is getting silly.

There's nothing silly about trying to save someone's life from a Downside Asymmetric Risk Event. Or minimally, open some eyes into consideration.

Folks who want to ride only at the track (me)

And this I totally understand. Why? Because if you screw up, you own it. It was your doing. I'd actually bet that racing motorcycles on a track (with other racers) is actually SAFER than riding a bike in traffic.

 

[James90]

Just sold mines today

I'm fortunate, i've gone unscathed, but my closest rider friends are a different story. The streets are unforgiving.

My bike has just been sitting these past 6 months, haven't had the time really enjoy it, and plus my friends are hanging up their helmets too.

Perhaps one day, I'll get into trail riding... Either on 2 wheels or 4 wheels

 

[Runum]

April is limb loss awareness month. According to the Amputee Coalition, as of February 2024, more than 5.6 million Americans live with limb loss or limb difference, including more than 2.3 million with limb loss and more than 3.4 million with limb difference. This means that one in 190 Americans currently has lost a limb, and that number may double by 2050.

Statically, most young people lose a limb due to a traumatic accident, motorcycle, sports, walking on ice. I have met many. Those that get injured in midlife seem to get bone infections following an injury that eventually lead to amputation. In the 50's and later circulation deficiencies lead to limb loss. The older you get, those simple, nagging, wounds just don't heal. Diabetes is a major contributing factor in late life limb loss. Your physical health is a main resource for your success. It's not about working out 3 days a week for a season. It's a lifetime commitment.

 

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[Xavier X]

I'm cringing right now thinking about how I rode around in Chiang Mai with no helmet and sandals. That was only two years ago.

I'm in Chiang Mai right now. I've been traveling in Asia for 10 months, and the recurring advice I get from other foreigners at each place I visit is - "get a motorbike, man."
Nope! Grab and Uber works great for me.
A lot of them can barely even ride the scooters and have all kinds of scars and scratches to prove it.

I'm all set with all of that.

 

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[Tourmaline]

Only place I'd ever ride a bike is the track.

The allure of bikes never ends. But yes, it's like smoking cigs. Not worth the risk.

 

[Everyman]

While I appreciate great advice, my critical mind is also learnt to check the stats, if there are any. I know it is about our families and friends so we can easily get emotional and forget about the reality which is...

"The NHTSA reports that 13 cars out of every 100,000 are involved in a fatal accident, but motorcycles have a fatality rate of 72 per 100,000. Motorcyclists are also at a greater risk of a fatal accident per mile traveled. For every mile traveled, motorcyclists have a risk of a fatal accident that is 35 times higher than a car driver. In 2004, there were 37,304 people in cars killed in traffic accidents in the United States. That same year, 4,008 motorcyclists were killed on U.S. roads."

"
Injuries and Fatalities
Motorcycle accidents are inherently more dangerous than car accidents for drivers and occupants because riders are not protected by steel and are typically thrown from the bike during a collision. There are several common injuries associated with motorcycle accidents:

• Concussion and brain damage. This risk is especially great for riders who are not wearing an approved helmet.
• Road rash or soft tissue damage as the body slides across the road.
• Joint injuries and breaks in the pelvis and shoulders.
• Biker’s arm in which nerves in the upper arm are damaged. This leads to permanent paralysis of the arm.
• Facial disfigurement. 35% of motorcycle accidents result in impact on the chin.

Motorcycle accidents have a high likelihood of resulting in injury. According to the Hurt Report, 98% of multiple vehicle collisions and 96% of single vehicle accidents result in injury to a motorcyclist. Motorcyclists are 26 times more likely to die in a traffic accident than someone in a car and five times as likely to be hurt.

Sport and supersport motorcycles account for a disproportionate number of motorcycle accidents and fatalities. Supersport motorcycles have a death rate that is four times higher than that of conventional motorcycles while sport bikes have a fatality rate that is twice as high as conventional motorcycles."

Motorcycle Accidents vs. Car Accidents | Adam S. Kutner

Understand the difference between motorcycle accidents vs. car accidents and learn more about your legal rights and options following an accident injury.

www.askadamskutner.com

 

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[PureA]

This thread could of well saved somebodies life... (maybe even my own)

I have been driving around helmet-less for the last 4 months on my scooter (Bali). It stops now. I feel embarrassed to even admit this...

About to go helmet shopping...

 

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[Roughneck]

A few years back, I bought my first motorbike. One of the best feelings was being on the open roads in the country. For me, it was a sense of being completely disconnected with the hustle & bustle of our busy lives. As I got more experience, I upgraded my bikes. Eventually settling with a 2015 BMW S1000RR - a lethal bike. I remember giggling like a little school girl with the first fist full of throttle!

Time went on and I had a close call. Car pulled out onto a dual lane main road (80km/hr) and gave me no choice but to lane change without looking as I had no time to stop. Lucky no one was next to me and I managed to have just missed the boot of the car!

Not long after that, I excessively broke the speed limit but a mere 140km/hr @ 1am on that exact same road. Passed a cop car and thought that was it, if I lost my license I would have lost my job and my family would struggle. Lucky for me, the cop didn't even try to turn around. I got home and remember thinking how badly that could have ended - for me, for my wife and my daughter. I sold that bike soon after.

 

[Klimrod]

I ride motorcycles, for the fun of it I tried calculating what my odds were to die on it. TLDR : If you drive a limited amount, and are a rather prudent driver your odds of dying on your motorcycle of your lifetime is about 0.2%

That being said this day I almost never use my road bike, almost only my dirt bike on trails. Risks of injury still pretty high, but risks of death quite low, and more importantly no collision with another vehicle.

--

ARTICLE :

Everything involves risks. Sitting in your chair, if you really did the math, has most likely a quantifiable effect on your life expectancy.

I think we usually consider risks using anecdotes, which tends to exacerbate our perception of certain risks while under-indexing for others.

I strongly believe in choosing your risks by comparing the odds versus the benefits you derive from a said activity.

Since my son was born I’ve been thinking that dying wouldn’t be a great outcome. But I also enjoy riding motorcycles, so I set out to a) calculate what are my odds of dying or getting seriously injured riding a motorcycle b) determine how I can lower those odds c) determine if I’m comfortable with risk/reward

*sources are at the bottom

Are motorcycles dangerous?​

Short answer is : yes

Depending if you calculate on a distance basis or hours basis, and depending on the country, motorcycles are 10 to 35x more dangerous than cars.

Roughly, every time I ride my motorcycle for 100km I have a 0.001% chance of dying. If over my lifetime I ride 100 000km (60 000 miles) I have a 1% chance of dying on a motorcycle.

Very serious injuries such as paralysis can be even worse than death in my opinion. There is not as much data on those but I think it’s fair to equal it roughly to the number of deaths. Meaning that over my lifetime, assuming I ride 100 000 km I have a 2% chance of suffering death or a grave injury by riding motorcycles.

If you translate that into hours, with an average speed of 33km/h :

1 hour = 0.0006% chance of dying or serious injury

Lifetime (3 000 hours) = 2% odds of death or serious injury

My plan to not die on a motorcycle​

I believe there are ways to get this number down, but before that a few disclaimers :

• I actually mostly ride dirt bikes, but stats are much harder to find for dirt bikes, and it does seem that while minor injuries are much higher, very grave injuries and death are lower. So I will only talk about road motorcycles.
• I ride both scooters and motorcycles, here I don’t differentiate between them.
• Most of the stats are from the US - I currently live in Thailand which is riskier, but I am unsure where I will live for the rest of my life. So, using the US which is mid-risk (lower risk than most developing countries, higher risk than most developed countries) feels fair.
• This is very very rough napkin math, a lot of these factors are correlated (for instance being young also makes you more likely to ride and drink, and to not wear a helmet). I also know that you can’t just add up % reductions like this. But I do believe that it (again, very very roughly) holds up.

Now onto the interesting part!

1. Ride less​

Dumb but true. Obviously if I ride half the hours I will half my odds of dying. This would probably reach diminishing returns at some point because the lack of practice could make you higher risk, but overall it’s fair to see it this way. That being said I I think that 3 000 hours and 100 000km is a realistic number for me.

2. Don’t be young and dumb​

50% of fatal accidents happen for people who’ve been riding for 5 months or less. 16 to 24 years olds are heavily overrepresented in deaths. This actually matches my experience, I had more scares (including a crash on the highway at 100km/h) in my first year of riding than the next 4 years combined. Low-skills and recklessness make for a dangerous combination. But I feel like I’ve now matured and am not in this category anymore.

We’ve already come down from 2% to 1% !

3. Ride dirt bikes​

I was pleased to see that : “motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly underrepresented in the accident data.”. They don’t specify by how much it helps, but it matches my experience of being a much better rider with better balance, brake usage and understanding of surfaces.

Since we don’t have the exact data on this I’ll be conservative and say that we are at 0.84% now.

4. Don’t drink and ride​

Here we have to be careful with the data, in more than 50% of motorcycle accidents there is alcohol involvement, but that also counts cars. If looking at motorcycles, 28% were alcohol-impaired. I rarely, if ever, drink, and never when I ride a motorcycle so I feel like I nail this one.

Since this is probably highly correlated with 1. let’s be conservative. I’d say we now reach 0.7%

5. Wear a helmet​

Wearing a helmet has an astonishingly (though not so surprisingly) strong effect, in the US 60% of the dead did not wear a helmet. In Thailand, where helmets are rarely worn, it’s quite tragic to think of how many lives it could save. I could do better with this, I often don’t wear a helmet on the scooter for short rides.

This brings the number down to 0.36%.

6. Don’t speed​

Speeding is present in 32% of fatal crashes. We would actually need to know what % of hours spent riding are above the speed limit to know its true effect on fatal crashes, but having more time to react (and also not surprise the rest of the traffic) can only be good. Another stat is that 12% of death put speeding as the main cause of the crash. I used to speed, but it’s lost most of its appeal to me.

Let’s say it gets us to 0.3%.

7. Have the right attitude​

This one is hard to quantify, but any time I ride my motorcycle my prime focus needs to be on not dying. If I have this focus all of the above will follow and some more such as keeping the ego in check, never assuming that I have the right of way, not riding when emotionally compromised etc.

This can get us to 0.24%.

8. Getting some training​

I would say that for all of the above I’m close to maxed out. This is the one where I am potentially missing on big life-expectancy gains. Per the stats :

“The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends.”

Again it’s a bit frustrating because to know the true effect we would need to know how many people ride without training (for instance if it was 92% it would mean it has no effect), but despite looking I haven’t been able to find this info.

Stats in Quebec tell us that mandatory motorcycle training can prevent 46% of rider fatalities.

That’s massive. And even though 5 years of experience + riding dirt bikes have already improved my odds, getting some extra road training definitely can’t hurt.

If I do that it could bring down the number to 0.2%. (wow what a coincidence that we get to a round number which also makes it very convenient for me)

So we have our final number, if I follow these 8 points I go from odds of 2 in a 100 chances of dying or getting seriously injured on a motorcycle to 2 in a 1 000.

Putting risk in perspective​

When I started writing this paragraph it reminded me of when I was searching about prepping and my conclusions were the following :

• If you listen to preppers a total breakdown of society, which would require fending for yourself for an extended period of time, is imminent : a 50 to 100% chance of happening within your lifetime. On the other side the average person does not even consider it a possibility, so let’s say 1 in 10 000 000. If I had to put a number I would say 1 in 1000 over my life time. So, simultaneously significantly higher than the average person, significantly lower than the average prepper.
• Most preppers are fat. Sure, it can be some extra reserves to last a few days more but cardiovascular diseases are a thousand time more likely than a prepping-worthy event. Put in other words, if they spent 1/10th the energy they spend on prepping towards improving their cardiovascular health, they would be doing a lot more for their survival.

I think dying riding motorcycles (while not in the same ballpark odds as a prepping-worthy event) also falls into this trap when compared to other risks which are higher but slow-burns.


Some interesting stats for perspective :

• Based only on my age group, over the next 12 months I have a 1 in a 1000 chance of dying.
• You have roughly a 1% chance of dying from a car accident over your lifetime (the reason it’s close to the motorcycle stat is because people spend a lot of time in a car).
• You have 50% chances of dying from heart issues or cancer. Obviously we all need to die of something eventually, but “looking at specific causes of death, the study found that, for each 5-unit increase in BMI above 25 kg/m2, the corresponding increases in risk were 49% for cardiovascular mortality, 38% for respiratory disease mortality, and 19% for cancer mortality. “
• Smokers die on average 10 years earlier than non-smokers. They have x2.7 chances of dying before 65 (even after considering confounding variables like smokers mostly being men, doing manual jobs etc)

If a fat smoker considers riding motorcycles dangerous he is being statistically stupid.



At the end of the day this was a useful exercice. Honestly when I first got the result of 2% I checked it a bunch of times because I felt like it was a lot. But that’s the true number for the average US motorcycle rider.

I am obviously more comfortable with 0.2% than 2% but it’s entirely possible that I’m kidding myself by thinking that I can improve my odds by 10 fold. Having said that, I sincerely believe it’s possible. Not because I’m extraordinary but because the bar is set stupidly low : 60% of the dead were not wearing a helmet, 50% less than 5 months experience etc.

For the moment I still consider riding road motorcycles worth it for me at a 2% to 0.2% risk over my lifetime.

And I will definitely get some extra training.

BONUS​

Some interesting finds that surprised me.

• I tend to be a bit paranoid about my motorcycle having mechanical issues but it turns out that only 3% of fatal accidents involve failure of some kind of the motorcycle, and the majority of those was actually a punctured tire.
• Despite motorcycle riders often believing cars are out to get them, less than 1% of death involved any kind of hostile action or road rage (and among those, I suspect a lot of stupid riders doing like their favorite youtubers and antagonising car drivers).
• I always thought that riding in the rain which is much more slippery, has longer brake times, provides less visibility would seriously increase the risk, but weather is a factor in only 2% of accidents.
• This one really boggles my mind : female riders are overrepresented in fatal crashes. I would have bet the opposite, assuming that women would be more careful and so on. I am not sure how to explain it.
• My biggest fear is a car ramming me from behind, leaving me no chance to react. But 76% of deaths come from head-on collisions. And I would expect that most of those should be avoidable by a careful and skilled rider. The most common accident is at intersections, with a car making a turn without seeing the oncoming rider. So, you should really slow down at intersection and assume the cars can’t see you.
• 73% of fatal accidents involved no eye protection. In the report they state that it’s because it leads to lower visibility, but I think this one is simple. 60% involve no helmet, which most of the time is what provides eye protection. I suspect the 13% difference is mostly explained by cheap helmets with no visors.
• You have 37% less chances of dying if your motorcycle has ABS. I didn’t put this one in the main discussion because I suspect 95% of motorcycles have ABS at this point, but I personally would never buy a motorcycle without ABS. You’ll sometimes hear that ABS limits your braking, which means you could have a better outcome without ABS. That’s maybe true for the top 0.001% of riders. But as for myself, despite being used to it with dirt bikes not having ABS, I strongly believe it’s a life-saver in a moment of panic on the road. ABS all the way.

Sources :

List of findings in the Hurt Report - Wikipedia

As overweight and obesity increase, so does risk of dying prematurely

Risk of death by age and sex

https://fortnine.ca/en/how-dangerous-are-motorcycles

As overweight and obesity increase, so does risk of dying prematurely

https://www.titlemax.com/media/how-likely-you-are-to-die-from-different-activities-behaviors-4.png

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

19 year old up and coming bodybuilder died in motorcycle accident when a truck pulled out in front of him. He had only bought the motorcycle a couple of days ago.

So sad. Again, the guy was probably as cautious a one could be.

This is not about you being careful, it's about being surrounded by morons.

Come to think of it, it's like voting: Your one vote is only symbolic, but it won't cancel out the 1,000 morons who voted for the idiot politician. You can't vote "harder" so the only rational solution is to not even bother. You can't fight human behavior and doing so, is generally a waste of time. In the case of motorcycles, participating is a potential waste of life.

 

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[BigRomeDawg]

Something like half of motorcycle deaths weren't wearing a helmet.

And around half involved alcohol.

Most of the ones wearing a helmet probably didn't have any other gear on.

Most riders have never taken a safety course.

And of course, there are no statistics to indicate the riding style or risk level of those riders.

There's risk in everything we do, homies- don't know why y'all are projecting on others. People die tripping and falling on the sidewalk. Boycott pedestrians.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Here's another one...

American ski jumper Gasienica, 24, dies in crash

American ski jumper Patrick Gasienica, who competed for the United States last year in the Beijing Olympics, has died as the result of a motorcycle crash at the age of 24.

www.espn.com

Very sad for him and his family.

Although of course, we don't get to read headlines about the millions of people round the world, who ride motorbikes everyday and are fine after each journey. #observerbias

LOL.

Headline: Joe Blow dies of lung cancer after smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day.
Roli: #Observerbias

Deny probability all you want.

You also haven't read about all the motorcycle fatalities from random unknowns who don’t get a headline, unlike the actor, or the skiier, or the...

Truth has nothing to do with observation bias.

Your statement is about as relevant as, “We’ll just because 4% is greater than .006% doesn’t make it true, especially when it gets a headline.”

Math doesn't lie.

#denial.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

My wife always says, "A lot worse can happen than death."

Yes, like becoming a quadriplegic. Like becoming mentally disabled, like losing your ability to talk, walk, eat, or have children, or worse, losing your wife or child seated behind you, and having to live like that for the next 40 years...

At this point, I think smoking two packs of cigarettes a day while working at a gas refinery is safer than riding a bike in public.

"4 wheels move your body, 2 wheels move your soul." - Biker Boyz

Yup, straight into heaven or hell.

 

[James Fake]

This is the exact reasons why I've never got one in the first place. Because I realized early on that its a false sense of "driver seat" control.

Sooner or later, I would have laid one down, and good chance I would not be here today. Actually, I'm almost for certain..

 

[Andy Bell]

My Vespa with max speed of 80km/h is as far as ill go...still dangerous but it caps me at a speed where i cant go on a highway and im limited to intercity beach boardwalks hehe. Also i never ride it on weekends or at night...too many drunk drivers in my city...nights are for the convertible

 

[PizzaOnTheRoof]

“This is my life and my identity. If I couldn’t ride then life wouldn’t be worth living. At least I’ll have a smile on my face when I go...”

- some dumb motorcycle rider

 

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[Bertram]

I disagree that most motorcycle accidents are caused by someone else. I think most are caused by stupid decisions by the pilot. I don’t have data and I’m not going to look for it. I’m basing it on observing myself and groups of other riders.

When a group of lads get together you can bet your bottom dollar that ego rears its head.

On a motorbike you’re always an inch from death. That inch is a twist of your right wrist, doing something stupid at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.

I’ve been in groups going faster than anyone would normally - because the guy in front is worrying about the guys behind him, and because the guys behind are trying to keep up with the guy in front.

Competitiveness is almost a given when lads get together, but running round a track too fast for the rep is one thing, blasting down country roads (or slicing through traffic) is quite another.

A rocket and an ego is a deadly cocktail.

Maybe I will create that thread after all...

Ugh, another day another story of someone's life getting totally f*cked up all because they needed to ride a motorcycle.

It seems like every week I hear a story from someone a degree or two away from my life gets into a horrific motorcycle accident. A few weeks ago the story was death. This week's story is someone whose looking at never walking again, brain damage, and all kinds of crap.

The worst of it? He wore a helmet and like many motorcycle accidents, it was NOT his fault.

Want to screw up your life permanently or worse, even die? Buy a motorcycle and ride it. And then be stubborn about it.

Now before you curse me a heathen, I've owned a motorcycle. And I loved it.

However I didn't love the fact that someone else's mistake would kill me, or permanently disfigure me.

I soon realized that owning one was a deathwish, and when some 92 year old grandma runs me over paralyzing me, I didn't want to regret the next 40 years of my life.

To this day, I DO NOT regret selling my motorcycle. I now look at riding a bike like smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Yea, no way.

What I did was find an alternative to get the same rush, the same feeling, the same windy freedom.

At first it was a convertible car.

Now it's a street legal side by side UTV.

Now I can get the same enjoyment of riding a motorcycle without the stress AND I can ride in the hills.

View attachment 28004

Sell the damn bike.

Now go think. You will thank me later. (Inside joke some folks here might recognize, LOL).

At nineteen I lost someone in a motorcycle crash on a dark lonely road. We had thought we'd be best allies for a lifetime. Life was not the same after that.
One evening my date picked me up with his Harley. He had a career which required alertness and decisiveness. The dew fell as we rode. Not four miles covered we toppled into a long skid. Time slowed to the speed of melting ice. The 800 pound thing snaggled along and dragged us by our legs across the road into the oncoming lane.
It was another reminder that the only way someone gets on a motorcycle is by believing that death has to really be nothing special, just like life. Like all of life.

And now there's a 74-year-old Irishman around here who still rides his Harley wearing a leather skullcap. He says he's going to ride until he dies. That's because he's broke, he laughs. And he has no one.

It's all connected: self-worth, self-sufficiency, self-preservation, and those who love you.

 

[rollerskates]

If you drive like everything can kill you (because it can), you'll greatly reduce your chance of an accident.

Yes! This is how I drive. I always assume the other guy is going to do something unsafe/wrong/illegal. It's saved me more times than I can count.

I would NEVER get a motorcycle. I used to ride a regular bike all the time and I got in enough accidents (one of which everyone was surprised didn't kill me and to this day is a legend in my family) that I know riding anything faster would be foolish on my part. I'm not a bad rider, but there are a lot of hazards out there.

 

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[Walter Hay]

When at 17 years of age I bought a motor bike my mother was frantic. I proved her right by having 9 accidents in the one year that I owned that Kamikaze machine. I still have a nasty scar on my leg.

Several were directly caused by car drivers, but most were a result of me always riding to the limit or beyond. In the worst, I overtook my bike as I slid along the bitumen, sitting up at over 80 km per hour. (about 50MPH). Even leather doesn't handle that sort of treatment very well.

Once the backside was out of my pants, my butt didn't handle it well either.

Later, a friend with whom I often rode doubted what I said when I told him that his footrests were touching the road on bends.

Sure enough, the footrests on both our bikes were severely worn down on the underside. Seeing that was quite an awakening, and the reason that I sold my bike soon after.

Walter

 

[MJ DeMarco]

One has a better survival rate but both still in the same category of increased fatalities.

Sure, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about survival rate ONCE you have an accident.

In an exotic, maybe it's 90%, on a bike, maybe 10%.

I crashed an exotic going 50mph (relatively slow) and survived.
Crash a motorcycle at 50mph and you're dead.

Sure, maybe more accidents happen in an exotic, but comparing fatalities once that accident happens is like comparing jumping out a second floor window versus a ten story window.

But so can snowboarding, parashute jumping, rafting, paragliding, MTB downhil and bmx racing and other extreme sports...

Except those sports don't involve a world full of idiots.

You error and it's your fault. I think most participants in those sports would be OK with taking responsibility for a crash they themselves instigated. Extreme sports is YOU against the challenge, not YOU against a road full of idiots. On a bike, I'm guessing most accidents are due to others on the road.

is that the risk is disproportionately placed in other peoples hands.

Absolutely, thank you.

 

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[v1vr]

I think about selling my street motorcycles every now and then and sticking with just my track motorcycle to eliminate a little more risk. I've been riding on the street less and less as I'm prioritizing other areas of my life. Doing a track weekend or two each month gives me my riding fix. Maybe one day I'll pull the trigger, but for now I'm keeping them. I have a blast every time I saddle up and hit the road.

However, I hear the following argument all the time and I think it is total BS.

"I'm not worried about my riding, it's all the other drivers out on the road that I'm worried about."

The people who say that usually fall into three categories:
1. They don't realize how much control they actually have and how their decisions can affect the outcome of a situation.
2. They are usually some of the worst riders I have come across, not just in riding skill but in the ability to make a judgement call or a decision.
3. They have never even sat on a motorcycle.

My experience is nothing compared to some of the people I know or people on this forum who have 10+ years and hundreds of thousands of miles under their belts. I have four seasons and 25,000 miles of riding experience across all my bikes in the Tri-state area. I specifically mentioned the Tri-state area, because that's where I always hear this argument brought up.

I've had quite a few close calls in my four years of riding. One or two of them were a little too close for comfort and really could have changed the course of my life if things didn't play out the way they did. Most of them just reduced my margin for error by an unnecessary amount. These close calls were usually because of speed, riding at the brink of my ability, taking a bad line, poor riding technique in general, and inexperience/information overload. I was PURPOSELY putting myself into these situations the majority of the time because of the above factors.

I would say 2 or 3 of these close calls were honestly beyond my control and 100% the fault of the other driver. But in each of these cases, what I was doing or ended up doing due to experience prevented me from getting into an accident. One of the incidents that comes to mind is when some lady made a left turn in front of me while I was going through an intersection. I even weaved back and forth entering the intersection to draw attention to myself. She must have completely missed seeing me and made the turn anyway. Her fault 100%.

I was driving the speed limit at the time which gave me plenty of time to react and avoid hitting her. I was confident on my bike and was able to emergency brake and swerve in the opposite direction. My rear wheel locked up and I had the ability and confidence to not over react and to get it under control before my back end kicked out too much. I'm sure a little luck played into it all as well. The most important thing was that I was able to ride home without having an incident.

There are two types of riders in the world, those who have crashed and those who will crash. I finally got into my first motorcycle crash at the track two weekends ago. I dove into a turn a little too aggressively and low sided at 55 mph. I slid toward the outside of the turn, stood up, and walked toward the barriers without a scratch on me. My gear did its job and with a little elbow grease and persuasion from a crowbar, I had my bike up and running for the next session. That same weekend, a guy in the pit next to me went down in the last session on Sunday. He was sore as hell and had some friction burns, but his airbag vest saved him from taking a trip to the hospital.

A few months ago, a friend of a friend was killed in a motorcycle accident after he hit a deer at 2am while commuting to work. He died because he was run over by another vehicle in the roadway. He wasn't wearing full gear, his gear wasn't reflective, and he wasn't wearing a full face helmet. Maybe he was knocked unconscious because he wasn’t wearing a full face helmet. Maybe he was laying in the roadway in pain because his clothes disintegrated the second he hit the pavement and no one could see him because he had no reflective gear. Unfortunately, we'll never know exactly what happened because the driver who ran him over never stopped. We can only assume they thought it must have been a deer and they just continued on their way.

I frequently read into motorcycle accidents in my area to see what happened and what could have been done to prevent it. I can think of only one motorcycle accident during my riding career in the past few years where there was honestly nothing the poor guy could have done besides being in a car, taking an extra 20 seconds to tie his shoes, or taking another way to work. He was commuting to work while there was an exotic car event going on at the local stadium. Two of the guys from the event decided to race while going out to get fuel, came around the corner on the wrong side of the road, and slammed into the rider killing him on scene. If he was in a car, maybe he could have survived injury free. He also could have been permanently disfigured or disabled and had his life changed. Once again, we'll never know.

There's a lesson to be learned from each and every incident that I have had and that other people have had. It’s on me whether or not I take away something from the incident and apply it to the way I make my decisions or how I end up riding. If you’re constantly getting into close calls or feel like everyone on the road is out to get you, you need to take a step back and look at yourself in the mirror before it’s too late.

Four years and several track events later, my street riding has toned down significantly. I almost never ride at more than 80% of my ability and even that’s risky. It’s just not worth it to me anymore to get my rocks off taking a turn at 30 mph above the speed limit. I may not be able to see far enough through the turn to see what’s on the other side. There may be a car cutting across the double yellow line. I may hit gravel and slide into a guard rail or off a steep hill. I save the more aggressive riding for the track where there is much less risk.

The guy who was killed at the stadium may not have been able to do much, but there is a lot that I can now do. I can take a more defensive line or utilize the more inside/outside lane to give myself more of a buffer from oncoming traffic. When I cruise up for the weekly summer car show at Bear Mountain, I ride a lot more cautiously and more defensively. There are a lot of other motorcyclists and people driving fast cars during these events who aren’t as cautious and may cause an accident.

My crash at the track two weeks ago taught me a few lessons and really showed me the importance of riding with full gear. It’s amazing how well my suit held up after a 55 mph slide. I used to never put riding pants on when hitting the streets because it was a nuisance to get them on and they weren’t comfortable. I’m going to buy a more comfortable pair of riding pants and take an extra 5 minutes to put them on, because the pain and skin grafts just aren’t worth it when your jeans disintegrate in a slide. I’m planning on getting an airbag vest as well because the extra cushioning never hurts. The high-visibility markings will also help me be seen if I ever do end up in the roadway and hopefully prevent an accident like the one that happened to my friend’s friend.

How many motorcycle accidents, injuries, and fatalities could be prevented if people ride within their ability, ride with the proper gear, ride within the speed limit and limits of the road, and constantly practice to become better riders and be able to make better decisions while in adverse situations? I would say 99% of them. You are in control. You decide how you ride and if you want to be a better rider or not. You decide what gear to wear or not to wear. You decide how fast you go and whether a pass on the highway is a good or bad idea. You have the ability to take away lessons from previous incidents or other peoples' misfortunes and apply them to make yourself a better and safer rider.

Sorry for the long rant haha. Here's a picture of my bikes for you to enjoy.

 

[TheCj]

The part for motorcycle is a bit vague it comes in at under 1 per 1000 riders if do some rough guesstimates.

The thing with statistics is, it doesn't matter if its 1 in 10 or 1 in a million if you are the one.

40 people have died so far this year as pedestrians walking in city i live in about 2 million population. The odds of that are way lower than a lot of other things yet for those 40 it doesn't matter what statistics said.

 

[Woosah]

Well, I sold the damn motorcycle today

 

[Xeon]

There's a local saying : "When you ride in a car, the car's steel protects you. When you ride on a bike, your flesh protects the bike's steel".

 

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[Kak]

Two things:

1. A few years ago, while sitting at a stoplight, I got rear ended in my Mercedes S550 so hard that it was totaled. We bounced off of a SUV a in front of us as well. The headrests had charges in them that catch your head and save you from whiplash. They blew. My wife was even pregnant at the time.

We lived the rest of our day like it didn’t happen. We actually drove the totaled car home and then called the tow truck which is a testament to Mercedes badassery.

On a motorcycle, anyone would have easily been killed by the careless texting idiot. She never even applied the brakes.

2. We have some serious road work going on here. On a stretch of road nearby, there’s no shoulder and concrete walls surrounding two lanes.

A couple of weeks ago I saw a bad motorcycle accident. A couple of people trying to help him, but he was bleeding profusely in the street while the emergency vehicles were trapped a half mile back in wall to wall traffic. It was pretty sad to see. It didn’t look good.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

however you are still more likely to die driving a car.

Wow, nice double down on the dumbest thing I've read on this forum this year. This also means I'm more likely to die of cancer simply because I breathe. Unlike breathing, I don't choose to ride a bike in a culture of distracted morons.

But then again, Twitter lost 66% of its value because you seem to struggle putting facts in context, you know, reality.

86% of fatalities are in cars because they represent 99.4% miles driven on the road.

Here even Google thinks you're nuts.



I hope you don't have a job making life-saving decisions based on your statistical acumen.

 

[Eurojanek]

I freaking hate those damn motorcycles a lot

 

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