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Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and facts

callmelucid

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I now fold a lot more but am still having troubles knowing when to fold immediately? Are there some hands you should fold on 100% of the time? (ie picture card and low number?)

the fundamentals say play with the top of your hand range. expand when you have good position and tighten up in early position. also there is the gap theory where if someone raises their hand, you want to be calling/raising with hands that are ahead of his range.

if you want to get into the advanced thinking and actual reasons of why we do this... bear with me.

assuming stacks are 100 big blinds deep (normal tables. 100nl .5/1 blinds for example), you want to call with hands that have good potential to make the best hand or hands that have excellent equity on flops.

if someone is raising utg with any pocket pair or aqs+, you know your range needs to be above theirs. when you are given ato on the button and a tight under the gun raiser raises, at best you are coin flipping with them in terms of equity. if someone that plays like me raises from cutoff on a lower limit table, i'll have 56s+ 89o+ any broadway, any pocketpair and many axs, kxs, and qxs hands. here if you have ato you should call or possibly raise (but thats another topic)

think about calling with ato. what do you hope to happen on the flop? when the flop comes a83 rainbow, and you get check/raised, where do you stand? most of the time you are going to bet this flop and the guy will fold. you take down a small pot. when the guy raises into you or you get check/raised, you are behind a lot of the time and end up losing big pots. the concept here is that hands like ato are good for picking up small pots but bad because its hard to put down and can easily lose you big pots. other hands that are overvalued but easily dominated: kj, qj, tj, 9t, a2-aj, kt, etc. not saying you shouldnt play these hands. just saying that when you are deciding to call, raise, etc, take note that your hand can easily be dominated. rarely call with these hands but feel more free to raise these hands from middle, late position in 6max games.

also, with pocketpairs at the lower levels, consider calling these from any position if you know the opponent is likely to get most of his chips in at least 12% of the time. this gets into implied odds. also, be sure to google pot odds and learn about that.

you will be a winner at micros or low limit casino games by just following this alone
 
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Giles

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Cheers, I understood most of it, and my balance is now going up (at slightly over $4 now starting from $3 playing 1c/2c :thumbsup:) I think thats pretty good considering 2 days ago I didn't have any idea how to play poker.

One question: when you put an O at the end of an example hand, what does this mean? 89o for example. Also, does the 's' in 56s symbolize anything, or just part of english meaning "five sixes"?

Thanks!
 

snowbank

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

One question: when you put an O at the end of an example hand, what does this mean? 89o for example. Also, does the 's' in 56s symbolize anything, or just part of english meaning "five sixes"?

56o means 5-6 offsuit. 56s means 5-6 suited.
 

Jill

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I started playing for fun back in 2004 and I'd say I probably lost about $1500 total until 2007. Since Bill deposited $1 into my account I haven't had to add any money into my accounts again..
So what changed? After 4000 hands, I'm still losing. (Not $1500, mind you!! But $100ish) Where did it all change for you. Since I don't have a "Bill", would you recommend a coach? (I'm already a paid member at Bluefire!)
 
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biophase

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

So what changed? After 4000 hands, I'm still losing. (Not $1500, mind you!! But $100ish) Where did it all change for you. Since I don't have a "Bill", would you recommend a coach? (I'm already a paid member at Bluefire!)

Hi Jill,

I think there is a fundamental concept that I did not understand when I first started playing poker. With that said I will try to explain the biggest changes in fundamentals. I am going to keep this super super simple to avoid a bunch of what if scenario responses that always ends up happening.

Bet to fold out better hands and to keep in worst hands
Let's say you have a pair of Aces and you think your opponent has a pair of Kings. Assume that your opponent will not fold his pair of kings.

You are betting and hoping for a call here. In this scenario you are betting for value, hoping that he will continue to call you down.

Now, let's say you have a pair of Queens and you think your opponent has a pair of Kings. Assume that you opponent will not fold his pair of kings.

You are betting and hoping for a fold here. But why would you keep on betting? In this scenario you are betting as a bluff, hoping that he will fold. But we just stated he will not fold. You are wasting money here. It's better to check and go to a showdown.

Showdown Value + Betting for value or a bluff
Sometimes you hand may have showdown value, meaning that it can beat certain hands at the end. I see people make bad bets on the river and waste money at low stakes because they don't understand this.

1) Let's say you have: 5-6 and the board is A-10-5-8-9, pot is $2.00 and it was checked all the way. You are last to act, you have a pair of 5's. If you make a $1.00 bet here, who is likely to call you? Are you betting for value or a bluff? You don't really know right? Someone with a 10,8,9 or 5 with better kicker may call you. Chances are high that if you get a call, you will probably lose the pot. This hand has some showdown value because it can actually beat other hands at showdown.

2) Now, same scenario except you have 10-7 and the board is A-10-5-8-9, pot is $2.00 and it was checked all the way. You are last to act, you have a pair of 10's. You bet $1 here for value as you can get calls from a 5,8,9 or 10. You bet is much more profitable. This hand has allot of showdown value because it can beat most hands at showdown.

3) Now, same scenario except you have 2-3 and the board is A-10-5-8-9, pot is $2.00 and it was checked all the way. You are last to act, you have a nothing. You bet $1 here as a bluff because you want to fold 5,8,9 or even a 10. This hand has no showdown value because it can't beat any other hands at showdown.

So let's look at all 3 scenarios again:
1) You bet $1 with no real chance of getting any return for your $1. If someone calls, you will probably lose that $1. You were better off going to showdown and hoping your pair of 5's were good.

2) You bet $1 with a high chance of getting a $1 return. You were going to win the $2 pot anyway because you likely had the best hand.

3) You bet $1 with a chance of winning the $2 pot. You weren't going to win the $2 pot at all.

Way ahead and Way behind (WAWB)
1) Let's say you have AA and the board comes K33. Your opponent bets into you. This is a situation where you are either way ahead or way behind. There is no middle ground in this hand. Your opponent has 3 possible hands. KK, a hand with a 3, or anything else(QQ,AJ,10,9, whatever).

If your opponent has KK, you are way behind. You are drawing to 2 outs (Aces)
If your opponent has a 3, you are way behind. You are drawing to 2 outs (Aces)
If your opponent has AK,QQ-44, he is way behind and drawing to 2 outs

So what do you do when he bets into you on the flop?

Fold - Never
Raise - Let's say you raise his bet. Who is going to continue here? If you raise you will fold out QQ-44 hands which you crush and only get calls from AK, KK or a 3 which 2 of 3 crush you. You also fold out pure bluffs. Again, ask yourself if the raise is a bluff or value?
Call - This is best because your opponent may keep betting into you.

In this scenario, you want your opponent to keep betting his QQ or AK on the flop, turn and river. He could be betting as a bluff with 99. Once you raise, you will slow him down if he has nothing. Why would you want to do that?

2) Let's say you have 55 and the board comes K33. Your opponent bets into you.

Now here you have that loses to many possible hands. So what do you do when he bets into you on the flop?

Fold - Sometimes
Raise - Let's say you raise his bet. Who is going to continue here? If you raise you might fold out QQ-66 hands which have you beat. Ask yourself if the raise is a bluff or value? Here is clearly a bluff raise.
Call - Sometimes, but then what do u do on the turn?

I hope you're starting to understand the reasoning behind making certain bets. It's not always, I have the best hand - BET, or I have the worse hand - FOLD.
 

andviv

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I don't play online, only casually with friends. I think what you refer here to is the fact that I had to switch playing the cards and started playing the players. After a few hands I started learning who would be bluffing and who would be in a strong position.

Is this the same you are referring to here?
 

biophase

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I don't play online, only casually with friends. I think what you refer here to is the fact that I had to switch playing the cards and started playing the players. After a few hands I started learning who would be bluffing and who would be in a strong position.

Is this the same you are referring to here?

No, I'm actually referring to a change in the concept of poker. Most people when they have a strong hand just bet, bet, bet. They think "my hand is strong" so I bet. They don't think about how to extract maximum value from that strong hand.

If you bet flop get called, bet turn and they fold. You've gathered 1 bet from your hand.
If you bet flop get called, check turn, bet river and they call you've gathered 2 bets from your hand.
If you bet flop get called, check turn, check river, they may bluff bet into you at the river and you call and you've gathered 2 bets from your hand, or you raise and you might get 3 bets from your hand.

Always ask yourself, "Why am I betting here, and why am I choosing this amount to bet?" Can you answer that question for every one of your bets?

Poker for fun is just for fun. Poker as a business is just like a business, it's all about the ROI.

Again, my disclaimer is that I'm painting a huge broad picture of poker.
 
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snowbank

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

So what changed? After 4000 hands, I'm still losing. (Not $1500, mind you!! But $100ish) Where did it all change for you. Since I don't have a "Bill", would you recommend a coach? (I'm already a paid member at Bluefire!)

Jill,

When I was starting to take poker more seriously one of the best things that helped me learn was having better players look over hand histories of mine where I thought I might have played wrong. I'd literally have 50 hands every session that I'd save to look over. I paid someone to look over hand histories of mine and write back their analysis on the hand. Then over time things started clicking because I wasn't making the same mistakes over and over, they helped me plug my leaks a lot quicker. You can do that for free by posting hands in poker forums, I just decided to hire someone because I wanted to progress faster. If you post a few hands/day over a couple months you'd be amazed how fast you progress. You've definitely gotta get the table time in though. 4,000 hands is like 1-2 sessions of poker for me to give you an idea of how small of a sample size that is. You won't be able to get a feel on if you're winning or losing until you play many more hands. Once you feel comfortable in a lot of spots, then you'll know, but whether you win or lose over 4,000 hands won't matter. You could have run bad and lost $100 from running bad. So maybe you're a winner, you just haven't got to the long term yet.
 

Sid23

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Despite my computer freezing on the last hand before qualifying for the $$ (seriously), I finished "in the money" last night in my first tourney. I finished 38th oùt of 335 players.

Just started playing in Dec and it was the first tourney I've ever played in so I am happy with the result.

Thanks to everyone, especially Snowbank and Biophase, for all thr guidance and helpful posts.
 

Udt123

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I just stumbled on this thread and please don't flame me but I have entirely different views on playing online poker. I played online poker in college and made around $30,000ish until i quit. This was from tourney play so it might be different from online ring play.

Sid said something about only playing AK AQ etc and not hands like 910, J10, etc. I cannot disagree more. If you play the large hands, they are harder to drop and win less money. For example, A x x. What if you raised 3x the blinds with AK but some donk calls behind you with A 3 and hits 2 pairs. If he pushes you, are you going to drop your AK? it is going to be very hard to drop the AK. On the other hand, what if you raise 3x with your 9 10 suited, and 9 x x comes out, would you drop the 9 10 if raised? of course. Now when your suited connectors actually hit something, you have the potential to win big. For the most part, you will have a very strong hand such as a straight or flush which you can be very confident about. Ont he other hand, if all you had was AK and hit top pair, it can be very likely that they have two pairs, trips, etc on a 9 player table.

Some of the tips I have learned from playing online poker:

Auto check: this trick works very well when you act behind somebody and you are pretty sure you have the nuts, for example you are holding 33 and flop comes 3 2 2. I click the auto check button and if they dont raise on the flop, they generally raise on the turn. If they do raise, you can either reraise him or wait till the timer runs out and do a call (depending on if hes a tight or loose player). This trick works very very well.

raising with anything and everything on the button (This applies to tournament play, not so sure about ring play). First off, grow some balls and try to raise 3 times blinds with 7 2 on button. If you have never done this, the first time will feel awesome. 2nd, when you raise 3x blinds, you only have to steal two times in order to make ur investment back. Try it over and over in tournament play, more times people will fold compared to the times they call (this is during mid tourney game, when the blinds get higher). You need this tool to stay alive for the bigger hands.

Proper bankrollmanagement** - Probably the most important. I have won 7-8 ~1000 people tournaments at #1 and a few more at top 10 (these are 20+2 tournaments) and guess how much I have in my poker account? $0. Same with any real life investment, if you only had $100,000 dollars to invest and you threw it all into one stock and that stock fails, you are out of the $100,000 dollars. Chris "jesus" ferguson did a thing with bankroll management where he turned freeroll money into 10K. He said something about playing with only 10% of your bankroll for cash games, $5 percent for sit n go, and 2% for the bigger tournies (forgot the exact #'s)

For the ones who think that "O, I love poker, I am goign to play all day and make a living out of it." You will realize that after you play poker 10 hours a day everyday, it won't be a fun hobby anymore, it will be a job. You will depend on it for income, it will get boring and you will hate it.
 
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ZDS

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Very few people have the ability to play poker for 10 hours a day and maintain concentration and their decision making skills.

There is a reason people who 10+ table play super TAG games.

When it comes down to poker ANYONE can make extra income at it. It merely comes down to bankroll management and PATIENCE. If you can keep these under control then you can be successful. The hardest part of poker IMO, is emotionally detaching yourself from the game. Which is where bankrolls come into play, the bigger the bankroll, the less swings are seen. It can be tough watching 1000's of dollars change hands, however if you recognize the fact you made the smart play, and can detach your self emotionally then you can be very sucessful.
 

ITA

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

@snowbank: Great thread! I have 2 questions:

How many pro online players are there right now? I just have no idea how widespread this is. Are we talking a few hundreds, or low 4 figures, and you see them once in a while on poker sites, or are we talking much more than that and they are everywhere?

Somewhat related question: how have you seen the "industry" evolve since you got started, and where do you see it headed in the next few years? Ie, is it going to become harder and harder because more and more people get into this and want to compete to make a living at it? (like it has on the adwords front for example, it was easy in 2003, not so much now).
 

PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

@snowbank: Great thread! I have 2 questions:

How many pro online players are there right now? I just have no idea how widespread this is. Are we talking a few hundreds, or low 4 figures, and you see them once in a while on poker sites, or are we talking much more than that and they are everywhere?

Somewhat related question: how have you seen the "industry" evolve since you got started, and where do you see it headed in the next few years? Ie, is it going to become harder and harder because more and more people get into this and want to compete to make a living at it? (like it has on the adwords front for example, it was easy in 2003, not so much now).

Good questions, I'll chime in with my $.02 and I am sure snowbank will when he sees this.

If you define pro as somebody who relies on online poker to pay the majority or all of their bills, I would guess there at least 10,000 online pros. I can think of at least 100 players at my limit on my site who are pros who I play against every day. When you think of the number of sites, different limits, different games (SNG's, cash, 6-max, MTT etc) 10,000 might be conservative. You will see pros at almost every table of every limit except maybe the penny tables. There are a lot of foreigners who can grind out $10/hr at low stakes and live very well in their countries. They are everywhere.

The game has become significantly harder in the last couple years since Congress passed the UIGEA. There are more and more pros competing for less and less fish. Most pros are seeing their winrates decrease which increases variance and severity of downswings. That said, the games are still profitable. The games will continue to get harder unless the government steps in. If they completley deregulate or create a gov't sponsered site it will be Xmas all year long and the games will be like they were in 2004.
 
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PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Very few people have the ability to play poker for 10 hours a day and maintain concentration and their decision making skills.

There is a reason people who 10+ table play super TAG games.

Your very right that most players can't play 10 hours a day optimally. However, one of the nice things about being a pro player is that you don't have to work that much. Lots of pros only play 10-20 hours a week. Very few pros put in 40+ hours a week and the ones that do usually aren't very good and have to overcome quality with quantity.

Be careful about assuming players who play 10+ tables are playing tight ABC games. With software available to the public like HEM, players are able to play 24 tables and play very LAG. I am probably the most aggressive player at my limit and I play 24 tables. All the top players I can think of play 20+ tables and are LAG.
 

ZDS

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

For the future of the Poker Market, I would not forget about China and South America, they are a few years behind us in general and I can definitely see a poker boom happening over their soon.
 

Sid23

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Lots of pros only play 10-20 hours a week.

And you guys make a couple hundred g's a year working that little?
 
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PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

And you guys make a couple hundred g's a year working that little?

Some make millions a year playing this little although that is a small percentage of nosebleed stakes players. Good mid-high stakes players make a couple hundred g's working that little. Good small stakes players probably need 25-30 hours a week to hit 200k. A good player at 200NL makes $150/hr.
 

ZDS

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Some make millions a year playing this little although that is a small percentage of nosebleed stakes players. Good mid-high stakes players make a couple hundred g's working that little. Good small stakes players probably need 25-30 hours a week to hit 200k. A good player at 200NL makes $150/hr.

That is precisely what I am working at~ I've just started playing seriously. Currently @ 10/25 cent tables with an 840 bankroll, and will be taking a shot at .25/.50 cent when I hit 1k bankroll. If I drop down to 800 i'll hit the 10/25 again.

Side Question:

I was wondering if I am too agressive in 25NL 6max.

I am winning, however I am:

27.8% VPIP
25.2% PFR
6.4% 3Bet
47.7% Agg%

PFR/VPIP ratio 90.9
Steal Ratio: 45.8

over about 12k hands

My general strategy is I raise pretty much every time I am limped to, or folded to in C/O, Button, Small Blind, Big Blind. I feel that weakens my small blind/big blind and have been working on tightening up in small blind/big blind.

Where do you suggest I tighten up. Generally my UTG/ UTG+1/ is extremely tight. (PP, AJ/AK/AQ/JT/KQ/)

Mid is a bit looser

CO/Button is pretty much auto 4x raise unless i have been raised.

I thought about tightening up and aiming @ 22/19.

Basically, I know my PFR % is much to high, regardless if I am playing tag or lag, but I can't figure out how to lower my PFR, or will that just lower due to my playing less hands?
 

AshanD

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Some make millions a year playing this little although that is a small percentage of nosebleed stakes players. Good mid-high stakes players make a couple hundred g's working that little. Good small stakes players probably need 25-30 hours a week to hit 200k. A good player at 200NL makes $150/hr.

I think this estimate is a tad high.

A good winning player can make 4-10 big blinds per 100 hands. 4 is the lower end of the spectrum, but what a lot of multi-tablers will make due to not being able to correctly play some thin decisions. 10 is the high side and you need serious skill and focus to make this long term.

So assuming we can do 7 big blinds per hundred, and we get 100 hands per table (in other words, 7 bbs per hour per table)

NL100
2 tables: $14 an hour
4 tables: $28/hr
8 tables: $56/hr (very unlikely estimate though)

NL200
2 tables: $28
4: $56
8: $112

NL400
2: $56
4: $112
8: $224

The higher the dollar amount, the less realistic these estimates are. I would say a good 8 tabler at 200NL can make about $80/hr
 
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LaurenS11

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Poker is difficult to play and make money in the long run. I dont think I could handle the stress of playing poker for main income.
 

PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I think this estimate is a tad high.

My numbers aren't estimates :) they are the actual numbers from my experience of playing poker for a living and having access to the stats of many others who play poker for a living. The reason your numbers are low is that you have a professional 200NL player only playing 8 tables when most play 16-24. Don't forget about bonus/rakeback as well. A good player at 200NL makes $150/hr.
 

PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

That is precisely what I am working at~ I've just started playing seriously. Currently @ 10/25 cent tables with an 840 bankroll, and will be taking a shot at .25/.50 cent when I hit 1k bankroll. If I drop down to 800 i'll hit the 10/25 again.

Side Question:

I was wondering if I am too agressive in 25NL 6max.

I am winning, however I am:

27.8% VPIP
25.2% PFR
6.4% 3Bet
47.7% Agg%

PFR/VPIP ratio 90.9
Steal Ratio: 45.8

over about 12k hands

My general strategy is I raise pretty much every time I am limped to, or folded to in C/O, Button, Small Blind, Big Blind. I feel that weakens my small blind/big blind and have been working on tightening up in small blind/big blind.

Where do you suggest I tighten up. Generally my UTG/ UTG+1/ is extremely tight. (PP, AJ/AK/AQ/JT/KQ/)

Mid is a bit looser

CO/Button is pretty much auto 4x raise unless i have been raised.

I thought about tightening up and aiming @ 22/19.

Basically, I know my PFR % is much to high, regardless if I am playing tag or lag, but I can't figure out how to lower my PFR, or will that just lower due to my playing less hands?

I always say you should let your play determine your stats, don't let your stats determine your play. If you are having success raising limpers with ATC then keep doing it. At 25NL, you can win with a wide variety of styles and I am sure you can be profitable with your stats. Personally, I am probably the most aggro reg in my games. I run 5% higher than any other reg and I love the action I get because of it. I feel I have a considerable edge over the vast majoirty of my opponents so I want to play a lot of hands aggressively. Do whatever works for you and is profitable.

As you move up limits, you will have to adjust as your opponents adjust to you. The main thing you will notice is that if you are still playing 26/24 you will be 3-bet a ton more than you are now but I wouldnt wotty about that until you get there. Take advantage of the passive play you are going against.
 
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AshanD

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

My numbers aren't estimates :) they are the actual numbers from my experience of playing poker for a living and having access to the stats of many others who play poker for a living. The reason your numbers are low is that you have a professional 200NL player only playing 8 tables when most play 16-24. Don't forget about bonus/rakeback as well. A good player at 200NL makes $150/hr.

If this is your experience fair enough, but I would expect someone playing that amount of tables to have their edge severely reduced (not just from suboptimal play but also lack of table selection) Playing 24 tables sounds like a form of torture to me!
 

ZDS

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

I always say you should let your play determine your stats, don't let your stats determine your play. If you are having success raising limpers with ATC then keep doing it. At 25NL, you can win with a wide variety of styles and I am sure you can be profitable with your stats. Personally, I am probably the most aggro reg in my games. I run 5% higher than any other reg and I love the action I get because of it. I feel I have a considerable edge over the vast majoirty of my opponents so I want to play a lot of hands aggressively. Do whatever works for you and is profitable.

As you move up limits, you will have to adjust as your opponents adjust to you. The main thing you will notice is that if you are still playing 26/24 you will be 3-bet a ton more than you are now but I wouldnt wotty about that until you get there. Take advantage of the passive play you are going against.


Thanks, I appreciate the help. Rep++. I guess I'll just keep playing the way I do! If I drop under 8-9 BB/100 I'll readjust!
 

StiG

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Great post... The only thing I have against online poker is that one situation with that guy "potripper" He could see everyone elses cards on absolute poker. Now that just isn't fair if people can hack and exploit this technology and at that point it's just stealing.
 
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ZDS

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Great post... The only thing I have against online poker is that one situation with that guy "potripper" He could see everyone elses cards on absolute poker. Now that just isn't fair if people can hack and exploit this technology and at that point it's just stealing.

That's a very small risk associated with poker. Anything business related has comparable risks. At least in poker your not going to lose much, because there's so many players.
 

randallg99

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

How do you guys know that the people you are playing against don't know each other?
 

PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

How do you guys know that the people you are playing against don't know each other?

There's always a risk, but these poker sites spend a lot of money on security as it is in their own interest to have a clean site. You could probably get away with it once or twice but eventually the security software will get you as they track ISP tendencies. They also take allegations very seriously so if somebody reports suspicious activity they will investigate thoroughly. Once every couple of months I get a random email saying the site is depositing $xxx into my account that they confiscated from cheaters who wronged me.
 
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PokerRich

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Re: Poker: How you can get started, succeed, and many myths and f

Great post... The only thing I have against online poker is that one situation with that guy "potripper" He could see everyone elses cards on absolute poker. Now that just isn't fair if people can hack and exploit this technology and at that point it's just stealing.

Another way to look at this is that in the decade online poker has been popular there has only been one major security breach and that was on a minor (small) site. Every dime this cheater stole was refunded.
 

biophase

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The Bluefire poker stimulus package

BLUEFIREPOKER.COM OFFERS $1,000,000

TO PROVE THAT POKER IS A GAME OF SKILL

-- Offer is extended to President Obama and any member of the U.S. Congress
with all the winnings going to charity

WASHINGTON, D.C. – (March 4, 2009) – With Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA), Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, preparing to introduce legislation this month addressing the ambiguities of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA), BluefirePoker.com (a non-wagering Poker training site via online videos) is willing to put its money where it’s mouth is – to prove that Poker is a game of skill, not luck.

The folks at www.BluefirePoker.com are offering $1,000,000 to President Obama or any member of the U.S. Congress willing to play a Poker game against any of their poker pros, and the winnings can go to the charity of choice. BluefirePoker.com will put up $1,000,000 against $1 for a chance to play with either President Obama or any member of the U.S. Congress. The legislative debate centers on whether or not Poker is a game of chance or skill, and this debate determines the legality of online gambling, according to legal and legislative experts on the subject.

No one in their right mind would turn down this challenge if Poker were a game based on luck, because the odds are so far in their favor – putting up $1 for a chance to win $1,000,000 for the charity of their choice.
Earlier this year, a Pennsylvania Judge, Thomas James, Jr. ruled that Poker is a game of skill in a court hearing, quoting Mike Caro’s Secrets of Winning Poker, saying “the money flows from the bad players to the good players.”

The specific terms of the game are to be announced but the format will include an equal number of chips at the start of the game. The length of the game must also be long enough to demonstrate the advantage of skill because Poker prowess and experience demonstrate themselves over time – in the long-run, the better player wins the game because the player’s skills increase the odds of success.
 

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