Imminent Threat Survival

[Vigilante]

Prayers for all the kids and their families involved

 

[Runum]

This shit is getting out of hand..

... you can't shoot back against a bomb.

and it's hard to shoot back against a vehicle running at you at speed through a crowd.

 

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[jon.a]

Here's your quote as I put you on ignore.

you can predict the nexts events :

look for odd number and prime number


1, 3, 5, 7 and multiple of seven , 9, 11 and multiple of 11 like 22, 13,15, 23 , 27

you get the idea: you will NEVER see a major event on something like 4 or 12 or 24 . never. remember my words

so when the next major event happens, i demand that people here quote my reply so we can see who is right because i am writing this on may the 23 rd of 2017.

so i can't cheat : all is written here.

i promise you, there will be next events on date with numbers i just told you , this very year

because of rule number 1 of the 36 chinese strategies : hide in the open

wich means ,all is there before your eyes but you can't see because of ignorance

and you won't believe it if told the truth.

so please quote what i said on the next event.

 

[LifeTransformer]

How many glasses, bottles, tables and chairs could have been in that place?

Table = potential battering ram/shield?
Chair = whack him with it?
Bottles/Glasses = throw them at him?

I don't know though, no idea how I would react because I wasn't there.

 

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[leavingslowlane]

ive thought about this before too, especially relating to situations on a plane or some other confined space. i think that having sudden, preferably surprise, massive action is the key. if you can have 3 or 4 people suddenly attack/resist youll be infinitely better off than if its just 1 person. being there is an entirely different situation than thinking about while i sit in my office but i dont see how thinking about it can hurt.

 

[Veloce Grey]

Depending on the buckle, a belt can become a nasty, nasty whip...

Anyone else want to admit to owning a gold, rhinestone encrusted belt with metal crosses on it?

He fled. She was crazier than he was. This played out in his mind 100 times, but he never ever pictured the victim doing something so unexpected.

Living in a country where gun laws are far more restrictive than the US, I was discussing with a few people what legal weapons you can have nearby if someone is breaking into your home. The obvious common one is a baseball bat, but researching the laws a little closer it was startling what is/isn't legal in Australia/NZ. You can't own pepper spray for example, or body armor. Yet there's apparently no law against historical things like chainmail, shield, swords and axes. You can even pair them with modern ballistic shields and stab proof vests. So if any intruder is kind enough to give some warning you can greet them in your bedroom looking like Russell Crowe in Gladiator. That would probably qualify as unexpected.

Of course if you want to investigate something outside the fortress probably better to use video cameras, either fixed in place or even with a drone if you're creative enough.

As for a nightclub situation any extreme light or sound would seem an option to buy you some time/distract. The fairly cheap personal alarms on Amazon seem to go up to 140db and the internet is awash in ads for super bright "tactical flashlights". Both better than nothing for those uncomfortable with proper weapons like guns, knives and rhinestone encrusted belts.

 

[Runum]

Yeah strange, they don't try this shit in texas at all.

Could they be just...cowards?

Naaaaaw.

Most of your post is right on.

Careful with this comment, it can lead to getting the thread locked.

Keep on topic please.

 

[Runum]

For the average person who wants to survive, you know where the best place to be is when you're under attack? Not where the attack is happening.

Hiding in the bathroom, you've basically guaranteed a confrontation with the attacker. And just about any self-defence expert will advise you that it's a bad idea to try and confront an armed attacks. Sometimes it's necessary, but usually it's a bad idea.

And no, you don't know where he is. You can only assume. But if he's got his eye on the door, HE knows where YOU are.

While you're waiting for the attacker to do the obvious, he might be grabbing one of the hundreds of liquor bottles in the club and making himself a molotov cocktail.

Still want to be trapped in a bathroom with only one entrance/exit?

I think we can all agree that hiding in the bathroom is not the best initial choice.

However, there are other rooms where one can be trapped, such as most college classrooms or hotel rooms I have been in. Any room with one way in one way out.

I would think that sitting and waiting to die would not be the only choice in that scenario. No the odds are not good in fighting back but they are 100% against you to sit and wait. Maybe a counter attack has a 5% chance of working out, maybe not.

 

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[Shades]

Here's another thought from the video....

Turn off the ringer to your phone if you want to be hidden.

I cant imagine a situation where id find myself hiding in a stall with 20 other people. I mean, that seems like just about the worst thing you could do. Right there is enough people to easily overpower a lone gunman. The problem is a few will get shot and nobody wants it to be them.

Just so sad to see that this guy was in there for 3 hours texting, washing his hands and weapons, reloading, making phone calls and nobody did anything. It sounds bad, but its seems like it could have easily been more then 50 deaths that night.

 

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[Bamcis]

Continuing...

A few people have talked about "weapons of opportunity". These aren't just weapons usable for attacking, these are weapons used for any opportunity to escape or distract as well. I say this with the OODA Loop in mind. Vigilante had a great post describing the OODA Loop and I recommend everyone takes a moment to read it.

Quickly, it's: OBSERVE, ORIENT, DECIDE, ACT (then loop it)

Back to the weapons. Almost ANYTHING can be used as a weapon (again, either for attacking OR distraction). In Vigilante's OODA Loop Thread it seemed the message was more of applying it to yourself. Here, I would like to present the idea of DISRUPTING THE ATTACKERS OODA-LOOP.

Imagine, a masked gunman walks into a room, he has OBSERVED the room when he opened the door and ORIENTS himself in a seconds. He DECIDES to shoot everyone, and then he ACTS.

Now again imagine, a masked gunman walks into a room, he has OBSERVED the room when he opened the door and ORIEN---*BAM* someone throws their cellphone at the gunman. *OODA-LOOP-DISRUPTED* Now the gunman needs to start over (still happening within seconds) and begins to OBSERVES the person who throws the cellphone, begins to ORIENT--*BAM* someone slides a chair from across the room at the gunman and everyone starts shouting at the same time. *OODA-LOOP-DISRUPTED* This has bought enough time for the innocent people to carry-out their plan of either dog-piling, running, or whatever. Gunman down.

The point being here that the smartphone or chair or shouting was enough of a weapon to provide an opportunity to act. In one of our security trainings the instructor asked a elementary school teacher what his plan of protection was for his 6th grade students. The teacher went on to say he had a stash of canned foods and he would throw them at the assailant. It is almost instinctive to duck when someone throws a can of beans at you with some speed. Beating a dead horse here, but by disrupting the attackers OODA LOOP that plan can be effective.

I suppose I will wrap this up with just a few sayings I've picked up throughout the years...

"Be kind and courteous to everyone you meet, but have a plan to kill them"
"Complacency kills"
"There's no second place in combat, so if you're not cheating, you're not trying"
"Use your head, but trust your gut"

BAMCIS

 

[ChickenHawk]

Get rid of guns if its possible. Like all other countries. 99% of these problems will be solved.

France has some of the strictest gun-control laws in the world. And yet, 100-plus people were gun downed at a concert not too long ago. Unfortunately, criminals and terrorists are quite stubborn when it comes to giving up their guns.

A startup should make a product like this -
1) A device that comes attached with all guns, integrated to it and unbreakable.

And when this device is hacked, what happens to police officers or women defending their children from psychos? They become sitting ducks.

I realize that I'm veering dangerously close to political speak here, so I'll just make a plea to keep this thread on-topic. Amending the U.S. Constitution, or finding ways to violate rights guaranteed by it, does little to further what has been, until now, a really productive discussion.

 

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[Runum]

Again, this thread is for discussing strategies and tactics to aid in survival other than gun control issues.

This is not a thread to discuss the merits or demerits of gun rights/control. Please do not post if you want to bring up guns.

 

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[ChickenHawk]

So do some other more mellow leaders...

These "mellow" leaders, along with their families, enjoy 24-hour protection from armed guards. Until they give up their own protection, their stance is laughable and the height of hypocrisy.

 

[Runum]

Well, this thread is slowly devolving into politics. There is plenty of that on fb. Please stay on topic or don't post.

 

[Ninjakid]

I keep asking myself over and over again, "why do people do this?" What a terrible thing.

 

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[lowtek]

What not to do in a active shooter situation. Watch the last 20 seconds.

At first I was all like... well that's actually pretty reasonable

Then the last 20 seconds came and the footage was SHOCKING

am I clickbaiting right?

 

[G-Man]

Yeah. He literally told the cop to give him a gun. And then said, "I can show you my credentials" which means nothing.

He also snapchatted himself running around too.

Regardless of how much of a tool Bilz is, don't get in the way of officers responding to an active shooter event and don't run around with a gun. Because when police show up looking for a shooter and see someone waving a gun around...

"Show you my credentials"? - Does he have a card that says he's secretly Jason Bourne?

What a jackass.

 

[Runum]

Relevant article.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/06/14/how-survive-active-shooting/85861892/

 

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[Okraz1]

There's a problem with this statement. It's the word will which implies certainty. Unfortunately mass shooting incidents aren't certain by any means. Death isn't certain. Life isn't certain. What will/won't work isn't certain.

The only thing close to certainty is that lack of action gets people killed. Beyond that, anything might work. Hiding is no longer suggested by Orlando police, but it might work. The context of the situation is everything.

Beyond that it's a personal decision made in the moment. Do or die. Any speculation about what will work or won't work is just that, until an incident happens.

It's not a matter of being delusional about one's ability to beat an armed assailant. It's about mindset. Much better to have an aggressive mindset and be ready to kill or be killed than to take the mindset of a victim and just be killed.

Complying with what the shooter wants means certain death. This thread was a response to the Orlando mass shooting incident. Victims were chosen at random to die. You can do that if you want. My goal would be attempting to escape by any means.

Likewise there may be incidents in which running could get you killed. This is why the new video suggests avoidance (evading) because it means staying out of the line of fire as best you can and continuing to attempt to escape.

Always the goal is to escape. Always the goal is to survive. Whatever works, works. If you haven't been in a mass shooter incident, there's no guarantee what you'll do. There are things the numbers show give people a better chance to survive. Usually it involves a non-victim mindset. Sometimes it involves fighting.

I agree with everything you said, it varies greatly depending on situation and is better to go ape instead of submitting.

By complying with the attacker I meant in the case where the attackers sole motive isn't to kill you such as a robbery. Better just to hand your wallet over instead of doing something that can get you killed. I should've specified

 

[Shades]

Its so hard to know what that situation would be like before it happens.

But I think a lot of times people think in their heads that these people are like tanks. Not true. Remember that the human body is very vulnerable and fairly easily injured. And the overwhelming odds are that these types of attackers have zero skill in defending themselves without a gun. These people may be more easily disarmed then you may think if you can get within a close enough range. They have to reload at some point.

It sounds from Orlando that this guy was just walking around using the sink etc... its just that everyone was in too much shock or fear to take their chance. A blow to the head with many variety of objects will at very least temporarily disorient most people. Allowing enough time to control a weapon. Go for the eyes and neck. Bite and strike their adams apple area. Put your fingers through their eyeballs. Who knows you may have the opportunity to sink in a choke from behind. People pass out from a choke like that quicker then you may think.

As others have said here, these people will not expect any resistance.

 

[Runum]

Here's another thought from the video....

Turn off the ringer to your phone if you want to be hidden.

 

[Bamcis]

I'd like to add some additional information I've gathered throughout my time in the Marine Corps grunts and as a security officer at a couple sensitive locations.

As I'm sure everyone is aware, MINDSET is key. Most the posts have talked about situational awareness, weaponry, and gut instinct, but mindset in this field is more than just those things. I would like to reflect on one of the most influential concepts I was introduced to called Cooper's Color Code.

For those unfamiliar, Cooper's Color Code was introduced by Jeff Cooper. Quick history lesson, Cooper was a US Marine Officer during WW2 and Korea. His Code is broken down into four color codes symbolizing different combat mindsets. Simply, they are:

• WHITE: You are unprepared and unready to take lethal action. If you are attacked while in the white, you will probably die unless your adversary is completely inept.
• YELLOW: You bring yourself to the understanding that your life may be in danger and you may have to do something to protect it.
• ORANGE: You have determined upon a specific adversary and are prepared to take action. With the understanding that this may result in their death.
• RED: You are in your most lethal and prepared mode, and will protect yourself if circumstances warrant.

The Marine Corps offered a fifth color to Cooper's spectrum, which is:

• BLACK: You have a catastrophic breakdown of mental and/or physical capabilities. This can be caused by drugs/alcohol or overwhelming stress.

Again, these are simplified definitions of Cooper's Color Code. As a veteran and as security personnel, I try my hardest to stay in the Yellow when I am out. I'm not sure how many are willing to admit it, but staying on your guard at all times can be very mentally draining. This is definitely something to keep in mind if you are new to this type of mindset/lifestyle. Jeff Cooper has quite a selection of writings and concepts I encourage everyone to take a look at. WHICH COLOR WILL YOU BE IN???

Whether it be at the mall, club, or school, it is important to have a PLAN. Whenever I go anywhere with my wife or family, at the very least I come up with a plan to meet if we become separated and can't communicate. We have even gone further that we have a few code words/passwords for different situations. This is a bit of pre-planning for the unexpected, but coming up with a plan when shit hits the fan is just as important. I suppose I can offer my proposal for the bathroom scenario...

In a bathroom unarmed, we need to ask two questions and answer them quickly. What are our options, and what is our plan? Do we hide in the bathroom (aka "shelter in place")? If we decide to take shelter in the bathroom what is the plan for that? Kill the lights and hide in the stalls? Barricade the door? Jump anyone who comes in? If we decide to run, which exit should we go for? Do we take it slow and sneaky or haul a$$? The point is come up with a PLAN and as the saying goes, "any action is better than no action".

It is essentially impossible to answer the bathroom question because there are so many variables. The situation will dictate your actions. This is something to remember because you can't have the same plan every time. You must be able to ADAPT.

This one is getting pretty long, I will continue in another reply.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Active shooter reported at Ohio State University right now! http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/us/ohio-state-university-active-shooter/

Oh boy, I saw this thread pop-up and immediately thought an incident was ongoing. Darn.

Hope there are no casualties.

 

[Scot]

True. All we can do is prepare.

I went shooting in the desert this weekend and one of the exercises was to sprint prior to shooting. (No, we weren't running with guns.)

The sharpshooters of the group were WAY OFF once the adrenaline and heart-rate started pumping.

For me, I needed practice handling and shooting. I know if I'm in a situation the last thing I want to do is pick up a gun and be wishy-washy.

Reminds me of the meme going around "what most gun owners need is a $500 gun and $1,500 in training, not a $2,000 gun"

But good on you for doing some stress shooting. That's one thing that always frustrates me in active shooter and concealed carry conversations. When adrenaline and fatigue are factors, all that stationary paper shooting goes out the window.

But @G-Man, rules of an active shooter scenario are always run, hide, fight - in that order of priority.

Get the hell out of the situation, always. No ones ever going to pull a Rambo and take down a shooter that is tactically proficient with expedient weapons (or even a concealed)



Edit: typo. Run not fun. Should never have fun during an active shooter situation :-/

 

[Scot]

At this height of criminal, let alone terrorist outbreak, I wonder if a fastlane need exists here, untouched by corporate bureaucracy.

Trust me, in the USA, it's covered. The veteran community pops out a new defense company every week. Body armor, home defense, personal defense, concealed carry accessories, weapon modifications, classes, training, you name it.

In your country, it may be a fully untapped market. Even though guns are banned, things like Krav Maga are excellent self defense classes, teach the ALICE method for surviving active shooter scenarios, provide home security, etc

 

[MJ DeMarco]

These "mellow" leaders, along with their families, enjoy 24-hour protection

Not to mention an incredible healthcare plan without the $12,000 deductible and shitty doctors.

 

[G-Man]

he was shot and how crazy "these people" are. Dude... You went to Turkey which has had countless terrorist attacks in the past year.

You know how everyone has the cousin that gets caught with weed multiple times, then always blames some particular set of circumstances for each arrest, even though he had ample evidence that weed= handcuffs? I feel like this is what happens when you give that guy a passport.

 

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[Scot]

This shit is getting out of hand..

... you can't shoot back against a bomb.

 

[luniac]

It's really a lowbrow thing to judge any individual placed in this situation, man. You didn't survive it, you weren't there. Maybe lay off the judgement a little? If anything, a balloon might have been a form of comfort in a chaotic situation. Maybe try some lifting up instead of tearing down.

True, could be shock.
I was wrong and I rescind my statement.

 

[Scot]

What not to do in a active shooter situation. Watch the last 20 seconds.