An idiot admires difficulty, a genius admires ease

[Stan_]

I just want to write down some thought in order to get clarity. I hope that this post will reach the right people

I have been an avid listener to Goggins and a vehement defender of this "grindset" mentality for the lack of a better term. What I mean by the grindset mentality sums up to:
- Achieving anything worth while in life is this MASSIVE challenge that you need to pour all of your willpower in and suffer for.
- You ultimately desire to just sit on a a couch and do nothing. You need to go to war with this "real you" in order to achieve your goals.
- You're just a bitch that doesn't want to do hard work if you cannot get yourself to stop doing bad things.
- You must fuel yourself with future dreams of "everything will be better when you achieve X and Y" aka living in the Dream World

I now adopted the OPPOSITE mindset. That achieving goals that are worth it is fundamentally EASY, it just takes a lot of time and patience.

Hear me out before saying anything.

Why is this mindset bad?

I started to doubt myself when I read forum reviews on Goggin's book. I've read both of his books multiple times, I've seen all of the podcasts that he is on, a good chuck his instagram reels etc. so don't tell me I "misunderstand him". It took me a long time though to see that how unfruitful this mindset was for my life.
Meanwhile I've read another book called "The Easy Peasy Method" which I absolutely loved and recommend. TLDR the book is about quitting porn addiction in a totally foreign way by flipping your brain to dislike doing bad things and to like good things. It is a book that INSISTS that you do NOT see quitting as "hard", you do NOT see yourself as having to "go to war with yourself", as "suffering" in order to grow. In fact it makes you see how EASY it is to quit and how HARD it is actually to keep being addicted.

Why am I bringing this up? Because after reading that book I've never watched porn ever again although I was struggling for years with the grindset way of thinking.
Why did I struggle in the first place? Well, the answer is obvious. Because YOU CANNOT WIN in this grindset mentality. The best thing that you can FEEL at the end of the day is RELIEF. You feel relief that you didn't do anything wasteful and that you did what you were "supposed to do". And when the day comes where your willpower runs out and the "real you", the "inner bitch" or whatever you call it comes out and slips up then you torture yourself mentally through shame and guilt which only reinforces this cycle.

What happens when you keep telling yourself that what you need to do is hard, painful, a "great journey" etc.? You freeze due so much self inflicted mental friction . You constantly feel like you have to push this huge mental boulder around everywhere to achieve your goals. And this boulder DOES NOT EVER get lighter.

Lastly, and I cannot stress this enough, this mindset is down right idolatrous. It is worshipping suffering, hardship and your self image of a "savage" to the brim. Everything is about you, about how YOU are the "baddest mf around", and how you "grow" with suffering. It is the pinnacle of masochism and pride .

I like Goggins and I think his mindset works SOMETIMES. The problem is that this works until it ... doesn't ... and when you try to extrapolate it to your whole life you just end up mentally exhausted, burned out and IN A WORSE situation (at least that's my experience). If it works for you then by all means do what you want to do. But for those who look around, see that nothing in their live has improved and keep beating yourself saying that they're just "bitches", keep reading

What's the other option?

Man truly loves exaggerating his hardships and effort.
We've been indoctrinated since we've been children to see some things as pleasurable, easy, fun while others arduous. And it is no shocking that we want to binge Youtube while not wanting to exercise when we LITERALLY believe that it is easier and more pleasurable. But these ideas are NOT real. There is nothing "easy" or especially "pleasurable" in sitting in a completely stiff, motionless position while starring at a screen listening to some guy talking random useless things that you do not actually care for. There is nothing fundamentally pleasurable in porn, it is disgusting, and we know this to be true because when we were children and did not have dumb ideas planted into us we did view it as disgusting. I could go on and on ...

The real first step in finally quitting these is to see them as for what they are, DUMB, HARD, PAINFUL things that you ACTUALLY do not like. NOT see them as your "natural desire", as your "real tendencies" or as your your "inner bitch" that you keep running from and that you overcome with your mighty "discipline".

Secondly and more importantly is to SIMPLIFY the things that you need to do and to see them as EASY. What do you need to loose weight? Eat less and move more. It's VERY simple if you think about it at its core. People just like to make it look at lot harder in order to feel proud.
What do you need to do to get good at a skill? It is fundamentally easy. You act, then assert, then adjust. If you want to be a great graphic designer you just create some designs, assert if they are good or bad and adjust a little bit. Repeat that for a long time and you'll get good. Because at its core IT IS EASY.
My fundamental point is that if you keep thinking things are hard then they WILL be hard for you. So stop doing it. Change your perspective. See things how they truly are. And then you won't need willpower or "suffering" to stop doing things, you'll just stop desiring them and avoid them in the same way that you don't desire to hit your head on a wall and avoid doing it. And the best part is that you don't have to live in the Dream World and can feel good about yourself right now in your CURRENT circumstances.

Every idiot can make things feel difficult and complicated. It takes a smart person to see the simplicity and the ease in what they need to do.

Let me clarify what I DO NOT MEAN. I do NOT mean lifehacks, passive income or anything of the sort. Those things fake and false. They don't get you where you want to go. But just because these easy things do not work that doesn't mean that we should view things that DO work as MASSIVELY HARD.

At the end of the day, things that are worth it take time and dedication. But ... frankly enough... when you truly look at them on a day to day basis they're quite easy to do, or at least you should definitely think them as easy to do. Stop beating yourself by saying that you're on this great journey of suffering. You're no Heracles or messianic figure, and that's OKAY.

 

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[Darklight]

I just want to write down some thought in order to get clarity. I hope that this post will reach the right people

I have been an avid listener to Goggins and a vehement defender of this "grindset" mentality for the lack of a better term. What I mean by the grindset mentality sums up to:
- Achieving anything worth while in life is this MASSIVE challenge that you need to pour all of your willpower in and suffer for.
- You ultimately desire to just sit on a a couch and do nothing. You need to go to war with this "real you" in order to achieve your goals.
- You're just a bitch that doesn't want to do hard work if you cannot get yourself to stop doing bad things.
- You must fuel yourself with future dreams of "everything will be better when you achieve X and Y" aka living in the Dream World

I now adopted the OPPOSITE mindset. That achieving goals that are worth it is fundamentally EASY, it just takes a lot of time and patience.

Hear me out before saying anything.

Why is this mindset bad?

I started to doubt myself when I read forum reviews on Goggin's book. I've read both of his books multiple times, I've seen all of the podcasts that he is on, a good chuck his instagram reels etc. so don't tell me I "misunderstand him". It took me a long time though to see that how unfruitful this mindset was for my life.
Meanwhile I've read another book called "The Easy Peasy Method" which I absolutely loved and recommend. TLDR the book is about quitting porn addiction in a totally foreign way by flipping your brain to dislike doing bad things and to like good things. It is a book that INSISTS that you do NOT see quitting as "hard", you do NOT see yourself as having to "go to war with yourself", as "suffering" in order to grow. In fact it makes you see how EASY it is to quit and how HARD it is actually to keep being addicted.

Why am I bringing this up? Because after reading that book I've never watched porn ever again although I was struggling for years with the grindset way of thinking.
Why did I struggle in the first place? Well, the answer is obvious. Because YOU CANNOT WIN in this grindset mentality. The best thing that you can FEEL at the end of the day is RELIEF. You feel relief that you didn't do anything wasteful and that you did what you were "supposed to do". And when the day comes where your willpower runs out and the "real you", the "inner bitch" or whatever you call it comes out and slips up then you torture yourself mentally through shame and guilt which only reinforces this cycle.

What happens when you keep telling yourself that what you need to do is hard, painful, a "great journey" etc.? You freeze due so much self inflicted mental friction . You constantly feel like you have to push this huge mental boulder around everywhere to achieve your goals. And this boulder DOES NOT EVER get lighter.

Lastly, and I cannot stress this enough, this mindset is down right idolatrous. It is worshipping suffering, hardship and your self image of a "savage" to the brim. Everything is about you, about how YOU are the "baddest mf around", and how you "grow" with suffering. It is the pinnacle of masochism and pride .

I like Goggins and I think his mindset works SOMETIMES. The problem is that this works until it ... doesn't ... and when you try to extrapolate it to your whole life you just end up mentally exhausted, burned out and IN A WORSE situation (at least that's my experience). If it works for you then by all means do what you want to do. But for those who look around, see that nothing in their live has improved and keep beating yourself saying that they're just "bitches", keep reading

What's the other option?

Man truly loves exaggerating his hardships and effort.
We've been indoctrinated since we've been children to see some things as pleasurable, easy, fun while others arduous. And it is no shocking that we want to binge Youtube while not wanting to exercise when we LITERALLY believe that it is easier and more pleasurable. But these ideas are NOT real. There is nothing "easy" or especially "pleasurable" in sitting in a completely stiff, motionless position while starring at a screen listening to some guy talking random useless things that you do not actually care for. There is nothing fundamentally pleasurable in porn, it is disgusting, and we know this to be true because when we were children and did not have dumb ideas planted into us we did view it as disgusting. I could go on and on ...

The real first step in finally quitting these is to see them as for what they are, DUMB, HARD, PAINFUL things that you ACTUALLY do not like. NOT see them as your "natural desire", as your "real tendencies" or as your your "inner bitch" that you keep running from and that you overcome with your mighty "discipline".

Secondly and more importantly is to SIMPLIFY the things that you need to do and to see them as EASY. What do you need to loose weight? Eat less and move more. It's VERY simple if you think about it at its core. People just like to make it look at lot harder in order to feel proud.
What do you need to do to get good at a skill? It is fundamentally easy. You act, then assert, then adjust. If you want to be a great graphic designer you just create some designs, assert if they are good or bad and adjust a little bit. Repeat that for a long time and you'll get good. Because at its core IT IS EASY.
My fundamental point is that if you keep thinking things are hard then they WILL be hard for you. So stop doing it. Change your perspective. See things how they truly are. And then you won't need willpower or "suffering" to stop doing things, you'll just stop desiring them and avoid them in the same way that you don't desire to hit your head on a wall and avoid doing it. And the best part is that you don't have to live in the Dream World and can feel good about yourself right now in your CURRENT circumstances.

Every idiot can make things feel difficult and complicated. It takes a smart person to see the simplicity and the ease in what they need to do.

Let me clarify what I DO NOT MEAN. I do NOT mean lifehacks, passive income or anything of the sort. Those things fake and false. They don't get you where you want to go. But just because these easy things do not work that doesn't mean that we should view things that DO work as MASSIVELY HARD.

At the end of the day, things that are worth it take time and dedication. But ... frankly enough... when you truly look at them on a day to day basis they're quite easy to do, or at least you should definitely think them as easy to do. Stop beating yourself by saying that you're on this great journey of suffering. You're no Heracles or messianic figure, and that's OKAY.

We are peaceful if we relax and be effortless, actually grindset overempathizes pride, desire and anger as solution to apathy, fear and depression, while actual way is to simply do it with love, acceptance and it is achieved by relaxing to whatever you're experiencing
"Chill dude" makes more sense now

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Interesting writeup @Stan_ — just out of curiosity when did you last watch porn?

 

[Dark Water]

This post makes me draw a parallel to the Steve Jobs' quote, "Getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life.”

I think when we enter that "grind" mode, we lose this sense of lightness, being a beginner, etc. The biggest problem with that is it restricts creativity. Creativity is how we improve our own processes, find joy in work, find shortcuts to doing things, find and solve new problems, etc. It is much harder to find in grind mode.

There is a time and place for everything. Balance is key. You have to being willing to enter that grind mode sometimes to just get a bunch of stuff done, but then be able to calm down and remove yourself from that headspace to enter a slower pace. That switch is difficult, but worth being able to do.

 

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[Kevin88660]

I just want to write down some thought in order to get clarity. I hope that this post will reach the right people

I have been an avid listener to Goggins and a vehement defender of this "grindset" mentality for the lack of a better term. What I mean by the grindset mentality sums up to:
- Achieving anything worth while in life is this MASSIVE challenge that you need to pour all of your willpower in and suffer for.
- You ultimately desire to just sit on a a couch and do nothing. You need to go to war with this "real you" in order to achieve your goals.
- You're just a bitch that doesn't want to do hard work if you cannot get yourself to stop doing bad things.
- You must fuel yourself with future dreams of "everything will be better when you achieve X and Y" aka living in the Dream World

I now adopted the OPPOSITE mindset. That achieving goals that are worth it is fundamentally EASY, it just takes a lot of time and patience.

Hear me out before saying anything.

Why is this mindset bad?

I started to doubt myself when I read forum reviews on Goggin's book. I've read both of his books multiple times, I've seen all of the podcasts that he is on, a good chuck his instagram reels etc. so don't tell me I "misunderstand him". It took me a long time though to see that how unfruitful this mindset was for my life.
Meanwhile I've read another book called "The Easy Peasy Method" which I absolutely loved and recommend. TLDR the book is about quitting porn addiction in a totally foreign way by flipping your brain to dislike doing bad things and to like good things. It is a book that INSISTS that you do NOT see quitting as "hard", you do NOT see yourself as having to "go to war with yourself", as "suffering" in order to grow. In fact it makes you see how EASY it is to quit and how HARD it is actually to keep being addicted.

Why am I bringing this up? Because after reading that book I've never watched porn ever again although I was struggling for years with the grindset way of thinking.
Why did I struggle in the first place? Well, the answer is obvious. Because YOU CANNOT WIN in this grindset mentality. The best thing that you can FEEL at the end of the day is RELIEF. You feel relief that you didn't do anything wasteful and that you did what you were "supposed to do". And when the day comes where your willpower runs out and the "real you", the "inner bitch" or whatever you call it comes out and slips up then you torture yourself mentally through shame and guilt which only reinforces this cycle.

What happens when you keep telling yourself that what you need to do is hard, painful, a "great journey" etc.? You freeze due so much self inflicted mental friction . You constantly feel like you have to push this huge mental boulder around everywhere to achieve your goals. And this boulder DOES NOT EVER get lighter.

Lastly, and I cannot stress this enough, this mindset is down right idolatrous. It is worshipping suffering, hardship and your self image of a "savage" to the brim. Everything is about you, about how YOU are the "baddest mf around", and how you "grow" with suffering. It is the pinnacle of masochism and pride .

I like Goggins and I think his mindset works SOMETIMES. The problem is that this works until it ... doesn't ... and when you try to extrapolate it to your whole life you just end up mentally exhausted, burned out and IN A WORSE situation (at least that's my experience). If it works for you then by all means do what you want to do. But for those who look around, see that nothing in their live has improved and keep beating yourself saying that they're just "bitches", keep reading

What's the other option?

Man truly loves exaggerating his hardships and effort.
We've been indoctrinated since we've been children to see some things as pleasurable, easy, fun while others arduous. And it is no shocking that we want to binge Youtube while not wanting to exercise when we LITERALLY believe that it is easier and more pleasurable. But these ideas are NOT real. There is nothing "easy" or especially "pleasurable" in sitting in a completely stiff, motionless position while starring at a screen listening to some guy talking random useless things that you do not actually care for. There is nothing fundamentally pleasurable in porn, it is disgusting, and we know this to be true because when we were children and did not have dumb ideas planted into us we did view it as disgusting. I could go on and on ...

The real first step in finally quitting these is to see them as for what they are, DUMB, HARD, PAINFUL things that you ACTUALLY do not like. NOT see them as your "natural desire", as your "real tendencies" or as your your "inner bitch" that you keep running from and that you overcome with your mighty "discipline".

Secondly and more importantly is to SIMPLIFY the things that you need to do and to see them as EASY. What do you need to loose weight? Eat less and move more. It's VERY simple if you think about it at its core. People just like to make it look at lot harder in order to feel proud.
What do you need to do to get good at a skill? It is fundamentally easy. You act, then assert, then adjust. If you want to be a great graphic designer you just create some designs, assert if they are good or bad and adjust a little bit. Repeat that for a long time and you'll get good. Because at its core IT IS EASY.
My fundamental point is that if you keep thinking things are hard then they WILL be hard for you. So stop doing it. Change your perspective. See things how they truly are. And then you won't need willpower or "suffering" to stop doing things, you'll just stop desiring them and avoid them in the same way that you don't desire to hit your head on a wall and avoid doing it. And the best part is that you don't have to live in the Dream World and can feel good about yourself right now in your CURRENT circumstances.

Every idiot can make things feel difficult and complicated. It takes a smart person to see the simplicity and the ease in what they need to do.

Let me clarify what I DO NOT MEAN. I do NOT mean lifehacks, passive income or anything of the sort. Those things fake and false. They don't get you where you want to go. But just because these easy things do not work that doesn't mean that we should view things that DO work as MASSIVELY HARD.

At the end of the day, things that are worth it take time and dedication. But ... frankly enough... when you truly look at them on a day to day basis they're quite easy to do, or at least you should definitely think them as easy to do. Stop beating yourself by saying that you're on this great journey of suffering. You're no Heracles or messianic figure, and that's OKAY.

I think the Goggins’ fundamental premise is that you need to develop the “struggling mindset” to do the hard things, because these things don’t come as naturally easy to you.

If it can be easily achieved with a mindset switch then you don’t need the struggling mentality.

The “real you” will never like being in the navy seal’s hell week’s program. This is what David Goggins went through.

My personal take is that the value of people who preaching about the grind (Elon, Goggins or others) is that for most things perpetually finding the short cut is a waste of time and energy. This is especially true for the millennials who see self-help as a perpetual pursuit of the next secret recipe for everything.

But don’t be like Goggins who keeps on running when your knee hurt badly. That’s the only issue I have with him.

If you need the future richest man in the world to sell you the grindset, just listen to the Nvidia CEO.

“I wish you ample doses of pain and suffering”.

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Hy6hl90h9lU

 

[AceVentures]

Well the fact is that the humanity as a whole has always recognized that to work is a bad thing.

The whole world everything we do and we think is to eliminate work.

And if you look throughout the world history, all the great nations had slaves.

And without slavery you can't free yourself for culture. For painting. For writing. For making poetry.

We only arrived at a state where we can make machines that can do what slaves were doing all the time to free ourselves from labor.

We are all descendants of slaves, and prior to being slaves to masters, we were slaves to the whims of natural phenomena.

So you see today, we are all wired in in such a way that if we don't work we feel guilty.

Because in fact we don't know what to do with ourselves.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

If you need the future richest man in the world to sell you the grindset, just listen to the Nvidia CEO.

Why do you think so? Nvidia would have to double in value at least for him to get there.

 

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[pmusu]

The grindset mentality also comes with so much unnecessary self-flagellation. You are going to slip sometimes and it's fine. Eating a pizza and beating yourself for being weak is so unproductive. You don't even get to enjoy the pizza because you fixate on feeling like a failure. Being there done that.

The natural state of things is not constant. We deal with seasons. There is a time for bulking and a time for cutting. I don't work with the same intensity in summers and winters, Mondays and Fridays, mornings and evenings. The hustle mentality of always being at your maximum level of capacity will certainly force you at some point (against your will) to take a break because you can't hold it any longer.

Try a super-restrictive diet and see how, regardless of how much willpower you have, at some point, you will slip and cross the line. It's about knowing the rules of the game, picking yourself up, and fighting the next battle.

What do you need to loose weight? Eat less and move more. It's VERY simple if you think about it at its core. People just like to make it look at lot harder in order to feel proud.

The sense of lightness is something I experienced in so many different realms. Strong connections happen when there is nothing to lose. My best dates occurred when I knew I wouldn’t see the other person again, so I didn’t hold back on showing my true self. My best job interviews happened when I didn’t care if I got the job or not. I loved the Steve Jobs's quote.

I think when we enter that "grind" mode, we lose this sense of lightness, being a beginner, etc.

 

[Kevin88660]

Why do you think so? Nvidia would have to double in value at least for him to get there.

I don’t see why not in the next five years. They have a gross margin like a drug dealer.

But of course unless Nvidia is forced to be broken up due to anti-competitive law.

 

[Subsonic]

I just want to write down some thought in order to get clarity. I hope that this post will reach the right people

I have been an avid listener to Goggins and a vehement defender of this "grindset" mentality for the lack of a better term. What I mean by the grindset mentality sums up to:
- Achieving anything worth while in life is this MASSIVE challenge that you need to pour all of your willpower in and suffer for.
- You ultimately desire to just sit on a a couch and do nothing. You need to go to war with this "real you" in order to achieve your goals.
- You're just a bitch that doesn't want to do hard work if you cannot get yourself to stop doing bad things.
- You must fuel yourself with future dreams of "everything will be better when you achieve X and Y" aka living in the Dream World

I now adopted the OPPOSITE mindset. That achieving goals that are worth it is fundamentally EASY, it just takes a lot of time and patience.

Hear me out before saying anything.

Why is this mindset bad?

I started to doubt myself when I read forum reviews on Goggin's book. I've read both of his books multiple times, I've seen all of the podcasts that he is on, a good chuck his instagram reels etc. so don't tell me I "misunderstand him". It took me a long time though to see that how unfruitful this mindset was for my life.
Meanwhile I've read another book called "The Easy Peasy Method" which I absolutely loved and recommend. TLDR the book is about quitting porn addiction in a totally foreign way by flipping your brain to dislike doing bad things and to like good things. It is a book that INSISTS that you do NOT see quitting as "hard", you do NOT see yourself as having to "go to war with yourself", as "suffering" in order to grow. In fact it makes you see how EASY it is to quit and how HARD it is actually to keep being addicted.

Why am I bringing this up? Because after reading that book I've never watched porn ever again although I was struggling for years with the grindset way of thinking.
Why did I struggle in the first place? Well, the answer is obvious. Because YOU CANNOT WIN in this grindset mentality. The best thing that you can FEEL at the end of the day is RELIEF. You feel relief that you didn't do anything wasteful and that you did what you were "supposed to do". And when the day comes where your willpower runs out and the "real you", the "inner bitch" or whatever you call it comes out and slips up then you torture yourself mentally through shame and guilt which only reinforces this cycle.

What happens when you keep telling yourself that what you need to do is hard, painful, a "great journey" etc.? You freeze due so much self inflicted mental friction . You constantly feel like you have to push this huge mental boulder around everywhere to achieve your goals. And this boulder DOES NOT EVER get lighter.

Lastly, and I cannot stress this enough, this mindset is down right idolatrous. It is worshipping suffering, hardship and your self image of a "savage" to the brim. Everything is about you, about how YOU are the "baddest mf around", and how you "grow" with suffering. It is the pinnacle of masochism and pride .

I like Goggins and I think his mindset works SOMETIMES. The problem is that this works until it ... doesn't ... and when you try to extrapolate it to your whole life you just end up mentally exhausted, burned out and IN A WORSE situation (at least that's my experience). If it works for you then by all means do what you want to do. But for those who look around, see that nothing in their live has improved and keep beating yourself saying that they're just "bitches", keep reading

What's the other option?

Man truly loves exaggerating his hardships and effort.
We've been indoctrinated since we've been children to see some things as pleasurable, easy, fun while others arduous. And it is no shocking that we want to binge Youtube while not wanting to exercise when we LITERALLY believe that it is easier and more pleasurable. But these ideas are NOT real. There is nothing "easy" or especially "pleasurable" in sitting in a completely stiff, motionless position while starring at a screen listening to some guy talking random useless things that you do not actually care for. There is nothing fundamentally pleasurable in porn, it is disgusting, and we know this to be true because when we were children and did not have dumb ideas planted into us we did view it as disgusting. I could go on and on ...

The real first step in finally quitting these is to see them as for what they are, DUMB, HARD, PAINFUL things that you ACTUALLY do not like. NOT see them as your "natural desire", as your "real tendencies" or as your your "inner bitch" that you keep running from and that you overcome with your mighty "discipline".

Secondly and more importantly is to SIMPLIFY the things that you need to do and to see them as EASY. What do you need to loose weight? Eat less and move more. It's VERY simple if you think about it at its core. People just like to make it look at lot harder in order to feel proud.
What do you need to do to get good at a skill? It is fundamentally easy. You act, then assert, then adjust. If you want to be a great graphic designer you just create some designs, assert if they are good or bad and adjust a little bit. Repeat that for a long time and you'll get good. Because at its core IT IS EASY.
My fundamental point is that if you keep thinking things are hard then they WILL be hard for you. So stop doing it. Change your perspective. See things how they truly are. And then you won't need willpower or "suffering" to stop doing things, you'll just stop desiring them and avoid them in the same way that you don't desire to hit your head on a wall and avoid doing it. And the best part is that you don't have to live in the Dream World and can feel good about yourself right now in your CURRENT circumstances.

Every idiot can make things feel difficult and complicated. It takes a smart person to see the simplicity and the ease in what they need to do.

Let me clarify what I DO NOT MEAN. I do NOT mean lifehacks, passive income or anything of the sort. Those things fake and false. They don't get you where you want to go. But just because these easy things do not work that doesn't mean that we should view things that DO work as MASSIVELY HARD.

At the end of the day, things that are worth it take time and dedication. But ... frankly enough... when you truly look at them on a day to day basis they're quite easy to do, or at least you should definitely think them as easy to do. Stop beating yourself by saying that you're on this great journey of suffering. You're no Heracles or messianic figure, and that's OKAY.

I was skeptical at first but I really like this approach.

I'll try looking at thing like this for the next week and see how that changes stuff.

Thanks for taking the time to write this.

 

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[Stan_]

If it can be easily achieved with a mindset switch then you don’t need the struggling mentality.

The “real you” will never like being in the navy seal’s hell week’s program. This is what David Goggins went through.

Generalising mindsets out of gruesome situations is like learning how to drive by constantly being in car accidents.
Hell week is an extreme situation. That's when that mindset works.

You and me are in no hell week on a daily basis. Neither is Goggins

Interesting writeup @Stan_ — just out of curiosity when did you last watch porn?

can't even remember. Like 1 or 2 months ago

 

[DeeCof]

Generalising mindsets out of gruesome situations is like learning how to drive by constantly being in car accidents.
Hell week is an extreme situation. That's when that mindset works.

You and me are in no hell week on a daily basis. Neither is Goggins


can't even remember. Like 1 or 2 months ago

When you are free to do what you want you will naturally stop pursuing the numbing, self soothing, pleasure seeking and additive behaviors.

When you can't wait to get up in the morning to do what is in your mind and heart to do you are free

It is when we force ourselves to do what others expect of us or our job expects is when we need addictions to numb our minds.

It becomes normal to think you earned or deserve the distraction (porn, food, drugs, etoh, sex) because we did what was expected of us instead of what we wanted.

As long as what you want to accomplish doesn't harm another person then go for it.

Be sure to reevaluate every day, ask yourself what went well and what could be improved so you can get closer to your true self.

Tomorrow, try to do it a little bit closer than today. Not harder, not perfect, just more true to your self.

BTW, Goggins is mentally unstable but it works for him because it makes him have discipline to do things that have reinforced his behavior.

You will find the addictions melt away.

 

[Kevin88660]

Generalising mindsets out of gruesome situations is like learning how to drive by constantly being in car accidents.
Hell week is an extreme situation. That's when that mindset works.

You and me are in no hell week on a daily basis. Neither is Goggins

Hell week is an extreme case to illustrate a point.

What about spending most of the time either work or gym when given the entrepreneur freedom of not being locked in 9-5? I don’t think it comes naturally for most people.

Maybe the first four hours of the day you don’t need it. But the last two hours of the day you might need the grinding mindset.

So far I see your point in “quitting something”. But what about learning new things and embracing discomfort?

I’m sure this forum has many people working a full time job and coming back home struggling to hustle for a business. I am sure they some doses of old fashion grind to kick things moving.

The grind mindset didn’t start with Goggins. It is really as old as human civilization.

If someone doesn’t feel the grind at all they are underutilizing their potential. Of course it is harmful to push to the extreme. I think Uber founder nailed it nicely that you want to feel perpetually feel somewhat stressed, sweating but not overwhelmed. I think this is the sweet spot to sustainably extract the long value out of your organic humoid form.

 

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[MitchC]

@MTF interested to hear your thoughts on this

 

[heavy_industry]

Achieving anything worth while in life is this MASSIVE challenge that you need to pour all of your willpower in and suffer for.

You cannot avoid suffering - this is the price for being alive.

You can, however, decide how you are going to suffer.


Health

• The pain of training hard and strict diet adherence?
• Or the pain of having your leg amputated at 40, being morbidly obese and diabetic?

Family

• The crushing, stressful, and anxiety-inducing responsibility of raising kids?
• Or the eternal feeling of emptiness and loneliness?

Business

• The pain of working relentlessly to turn your vision into reality?
• Or the unspeakable suffering of looking back to a wasted life?

You decide which one is worse.

Pain is unavoidable, so we might as well learn to enjoy it.

Based on the title of this thread, I fall squarely into the "idiot" category, because difficulty is what I eat for breakfast.

Difficulty is what keeps me alive, sharp, strong, and happy.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I'm about 40,000 words into my next book.

And this post reflects the exact opposite of its advice, advice that has been proven over and over throughout human history. The genius admires easy? WTF am I reading? Sure, he also admires diabetes, obesity, complacency, laziness, unquestioned authoritative advice, and gurus with $2,000 coaching programs.

Of course, the odds that I logon to the forum nowadays and totally disagree with what people are saying now seems pretty normal.

However I will say, I actually don't "totally" disagree with this take as I agree that enduring self-inflicted hardship like a badge of honor, like a certain hero-worshiped Navy Seal advocates is not mental toughness, but mental illness due to unresolved childhood trauma.

Bottomline: Choose easy as your chosen path for life and your outcome will be predictably foretold, no time machine required: You will live hard, moment by moment, year by year.

 

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[Johnny boy]

It’s both.

You’re fat and it’s easy to get in shape, just eat less and move more.

You’re also just a bitch a$$ pussy for not doing it.

Now that we’ve reconciled your mental masturbatory philosophical conundrum, go do your pushups motherfcker.

 

[AceVentures]

The genius admires easy? WTF am I reading? Sure, he also admires diabetes, obesity, complacency, laziness, unquestioned authoritative advice, and gurus with $2,000 coaching programs.

The idea is not to "take the easy path" to diabetes, laziness, complacency and guru programs, but that truly free and spontaneous behavior is effortless. Look at any master at any craft - they make it look easy because they've found a way to act which seems impossible to the untrained person yet has become effortless to the master.

I said it in a previous post but it's worth discussing: imo we have learned from our social and natural environments to work hard, and we carry this general pattern of acting with us in a compulsive way as adults.

Consider this post for instance:

You cannot avoid suffering - this is the price for being alive.

Pain is unavoidable, so we might as well learn to enjoy it.

Based on the title of this thread, I fall squarely into the "idiot" category, because difficulty is what I eat for breakfast.

Difficulty is what keeps me alive, sharp, strong, and happy.

This person has associated his way of life with difficulty, pain and suffering. He eats it for breakfast.

I would argue this person hasn't spent enough time thinking through it. For instance, why should suffering be unavoidable? Why is that a price to pay for being alive? Why should you have to pay a price for being alive?

These are behavioral traits of compulsive action we inherited from our parents and teachers who told us life is hard and should be hard. From the dads who walked 15 miles to school and remind you everyday that life should be hard.

But it doesn't need to be that way. In the sense that how you perceive life should be easy. For instance think about "forcing yourself to walk 15 miles a day just to go to school" and how hard that is, versus someone who doesn't have a car because they want to walk 15 miles a day otherwise they don't feel like themselves.

For one person, their experience is hard, for the other, well there's nothing to it.

What I'm suggesting is that there's a way of feeling, sensing, acting and directing oneself in which the task you undertake becomes easier and easier. And if you glorify difficulty, you embrace constant difficulty, then your experience of life becomes that.

Whether you're financially successful or broke - you experience life as inherently hard and feel that way in every single behavior.

In this way, the constant and mounting sense of difficulty is an indicator of inability.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

Whether you're financially successful or broke - you experience life as inherently hard and feel that way in every single behavior.

Personally I experience life as very hard. And being successful as very hard. But I don’t know an alternative, so I keep going…

As far as I see, we’re all relatively fragile and weak, success requires a long term effort, hopefully uniterrupted by illness or betrayal and being able to accept and withstand a lot of pain and most of all uncertainty.

There is no silver bullet, no amount of knowledge makes it easy, and most often it’s about putting in the reps. It’s a matter of endurance more than intelligence.

Decisions you take are always filled with uncertainty. You could be doing great, doing all the reps, taking care of your health and so on, and end up with cancer, all of a sudden.

Nothing is guaranteed. And trying to eliminate uncertainty leads to paranoia & micromanagement — you’ve got to learn to accept the uncertainty.

Most people do neither and just languish. Life sort of passes them by. Some of them get taken in an amazing direction, without doing too much for it. They become millionaires, advance in a corporate job, etc. Most go nowhere and just languish watching netflix and smoking pot.

Those who go places because of themselves almost always put an insane amount of effort into it. Success is not natural — quite the contrary, what’s natural is failure and degradation. A lion who has all the food they need doesn’t go out hunting. They sit and languish with their belly up just like most people do. They sit on netflix, and in the weekends go for a few beers or whatever.

That’s why animals never exceed their condition. The only animal that has ever exceeded his condition is man — and that exceeding of our condition is the result of massive effort directed over long periods of time, for the attainment of certain specific ends.

I have recently come across a guy who owns an $80 million business that does basically the same thing that I do. And he’s younger than me. Why do you think he’s so much more successful?

It’s because while I was busy dealing with OCD in my early 20s, for example, he was busy working 120% on his business. There are so many things holding you back — I have thousands of things I could name that have slowed down my progress. But make no mistake, even with all those weights that I have to carry, I have put in massive effort to get to where I am today. Without this effort I would have been worse off.

I have no idea if there is a better way to invest my effort… but sometimes I don’t care because the alternative is spend more time thinking or do stuff. One moves you forward not at all, the other has some probability of moving you forward, even if it may not be the “best” way.

 

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[heavy_industry]

For instance, why should suffering be unavoidable?

Because you and all your loved ones are going to get old, sick, and die - potentially in a lot of agony.

Death is the fundamental problem of life.

And it doesn't matter how you rephrase it, and it doesn't matter how much F*cking money you have - this is the inescapable reality of our existence.

Why is that a price to pay for being alive?

Why should you have to pay a price for being alive?

Because one of the governing laws of our universe is that order degrades into chaos. Life results in death.

Our nervous system - and the human mind - have evolved to detect and try to delay the chaos from decaying our bodies.

• Put your hand on the hot stove? Chaos.
• You're getting hungry and are in need of food? Chaos.
• You encounter a wild and dangerous animal? Chaos.
• Your company goes bankrupt? Chaos.

Any and all threats to our life or well-being will be perceived as painful or frightening. Pain and suffering are the biological response to external threats - real or imaginary (we constantly try to predict the future).

As a direct result of this biological hardwiring, you will continue to suffer and experience various degrees of pain for the rest of your life.

Life is suffering.

The only question is - what are YOU going to do about it?


Moan like a bitch and blame the world for your problems?

Become bitter and resentful, and bring even more harm into this world?

Or shoulder your suffering, bear your cross, and do your best to craft this life into the most beautiful thing you can imagine?

 

[AceVentures]

Because you and all your loved ones are going to get old, sick, and die - potentially in a lot of agony.

Death is the fundamental problem of life.

And it doesn't matter how you rephrase it, and it doesn't matter how much F*cking money you have - this is the inescapable reality of our existence.




Because one of the governing laws of our universe is that order degrades into chaos. Life results in death.

Our nervous system - and the human mind - have evolved to detect and try to delay the chaos from decaying our bodies.

• Put your hand on the hot stove? Chaos.
• You're getting hungry and are in need of food? Chaos.
• You encounter a wild and dangerous animal? Chaos.
• Your company goes bankrupt? Chaos.

Any and all threats to our life or well-being will be perceived as painful or frightening. Pain and suffering are the biological response to external threats - real or imaginary (we constantly try to predict the future).

As a direct result of this biological hardwiring, you will continue to suffer and experience various degrees of pain for the rest of your life.

Life is suffering.

The only question is - what are YOU going to do about it?


Moan like a bitch and blame the world for your problems?

Become bitter and resentful, and bring even more harm into this world?

Or shoulder your suffering, bear your cross, and do your best to craft this life into the most beautiful thing you can imagine?

Our experience of life is constrained by our representation of the world.

How you think is how you sense is how you feel is how you act in the world.

It's how a sherpa can perform insane feats of strength that the instagram bodybuilder with 2M followers couldn't dream of doing.

I say our difficulties are made up in the mind first.

It's that our difficulties are linked with how we perceive ourselves and the world around us. They're inseparable from our construct of the world.

The person for whom life is fun and easy and he gets lucky for some reason and is a winner and has a bunch of friends and he's confident and he learns a trick the first time he tries it and oh he's good with maths? I say it's the how one thinks and organizes himself which leads a life of that nature. I say it's a learned behavior, it's not genetic.

For the compulsive person who thinks about death, agony, suffering, inescapable difficulty - he leads a challenging and complex life full of impossible tasks and he never quite matures and he's impotent in a number of faculties which are apparent if you probe enough.

"Life is inherently difficult and suffering is inescapable" is only one way of thinking and representing the world and moving about it.

We live and die by the mental prison we create for ourselves.

 

[heavy_industry]

Our experience of life is constrained by our representation of the world.

Yes.

I say our difficulties are made up in the mind first.

Yes.

We live and die by the mental prison we create for ourselves.

Yes.

"Life is inherently difficult and suffering is inescapable" is only one way of thinking and representing the world and moving about it.

No.

Our life experience is created entirely by us, in our own minds.

There are, however, some facts that are objectively true regardless of whether you agree with them or not:

• Our bodies are covered with pain receptors from head to toe. You will experience some degree of pain every single day of your life.
• Death is unavoidable. All human suffering (which is markedly different from physical pain) stems from our attempt to delay our own demise. We have a number of natural instincts that will trigger a pain response whenever we feel threatened in any way.
• Pain and pleasure are modulated by the same neurologic pathway - the mammalian reward system. This means that blindly pursuing hedonistic pleasure will, paradoxically, lead to pain.
• Life as a biological phenomenon is fundamentally brutal and unforgiving. Natural selection happens when the fast predator sinks its teeth into the slowest gazelle. This is not a fun experience.

These are all objective facts of our world.

What you choose to do with them is up to you.

You can be the delusional hippie that covers his eyes, or the compulsive maniac who is obsessed with death and suffering.

Both extreme ends of the spectrum are stupid and destructive ways to go about living life.

---

What I was actually saying in my original post, the one that you failed to understand and made this unpolite remark on:

This person has associated his way of life with difficulty, pain and suffering. He eats it for breakfast.

is that, in my own personal experience - which is obviously biased and highly subjective - I've observed that anything worth doing in life requires a substantial amount of effort and sometimes enduring a very high degree of physical pain (e.g. lifting weights to become a better athlete).

Trying to avoid this pain and effort and looking for a shortcut that does not exist will result in even more pain down the road because you will miss the F*cking target and fail to achieve your goal.

Which is why I've said that it's better to learn how to enjoy the pain - or, in other words, to fall in love with the process.

 

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[AceVentures]

Yes.


Yes.


Yes.


No.

Our life experience is created entirely by us, in our own minds.

There are, however, some facts that are objectively true regardless of whether you agree with them or not:

• Our bodies are covered with pain receptors from head to toe. You will experience some degree of pain every single day of your life.
• Death is unavoidable. All human suffering (which is markedly different from physical pain) stems from our attempt to delay our own demise. We have a number of natural instincts that will trigger a pain response whenever we feel threatened in any way.
• Pain and pleasure are modulated by the same neurologic pathway - the mammalian reward system. This means that blindly pursuing hedonistic pleasure will, paradoxically, lead to pain.
• Life as a biological phenomenon is fundamentally brutal and unforgiving. Natural selection happens when the fast predator sinks its teeth into the slowest gazelle. This is not a fun experience.

These are all objective facts of our world.

What you choose to do with them is up to you.

You can be the delusional hippie that covers his eyes, or the compulsive maniac who is obsessed with death and suffering.

Both extreme ends of the spectrum are stupid and destructive ways to go about living life.

---

What I was actually saying in my original post, the one that you failed to understand and made this unpolite remark on:



is that, in my own personal experience - which is obviously biased and highly subjective - I've observed that anything worth doing in life requires a substantial amount of effort and sometimes enduring a very high degree of physical pain (e.g. lifting weights to become a better athlete).

Trying to avoid this pain and effort and looking for a shortcut that does not exist will result in even more pain down the road because you will miss the F*cking target and fail to achieve your goal.

Which is why I've said that it's better to learn how to enjoy the pain - or, in other words, to fall in love with the process.

I say the process need not be painful.

But have it your way.

 

[MitchC]

I say the process need not be painful.

But have it your way.

Agreed

What’s so hard and suffering about eating delicious healthy food and doing fun workouts and being fit

Why does everyone assume it’s suffering not to eat the most putrid unhealthy food possible to the point you give yourself diabetes

Or train so hard and in such an unenjoyable way that you suffer

Or build a business you hate and run it in a way that you are suffering every day

You can wake up eat healthy train hard and have a successful business and enjoy it

For a forum so big on process over event it seems strange to promote the process as it has to be suffering

You couldn’t pay me to eat McDonalds every day it’s disgusting, I’d rather eat healthy. Why does that have to equate to suffering.

What’s suffering about creating a business that helps people and working with and helping people you like. Making your dream come true, bringing your ideas into the world. Making money.

Humans have an innate desire to create and improve, I think it would be more suffering to not be able to work or do or build or create anything, to not be improving fitness, to not be eating healthy

I read deep work recently and he mentioned how people are happiest when they are in flow state doing deep work, and I believe it.

Would you really say when you are writing your 40,000 pages you are suffering @MJ DeMarco ?

I think this post is being misinterpreted

If you view these things are suffering, or turn them into suffering, you are setting yourself up for failure or misery, because you either quit to avoid the suffering or suffer through it and suffer

The better way would be to enjoy them, that way you are not having to push through suffering you want to do it, and you aren’t suffering daily as you enjoy it

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Would you really say when you are writing your 40,000 pages you are suffering @MJ DeMarco ?

I never said anything about constant, ongoing suffering. However, choosing easy is the most direct path to that life.

I'm making a distinction about choosing hard over easy with respect to decision-making.

I choose to write, HARD, when I could easily choose EASY and go to sleep, watch a movie, or scroll 2 hours on TikTok. Sometimes that writing involves suffering, sometimes it is fun with a flow-state.

I choose to eat healthy, HARD, when I could easily choose EASY and eat trash like 95% of the population.

I choose to hit the gym for two hours, HARD, when I could choose EASY and watch sports on the couch all day.

Right now I can barely walk due to an intense leg workout which was HARD with admittedly, some suffering. I get paid EASY with daily fitness and vitality.

Because I consistently choose temporary HARDs in my life, I live an enduring EASY.

And I wouldn't change a damn thing.

 

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[Jrjohnny]

"The Easy Peasy Method" which I absolutely loved and recommend. TLDR the book is about quitting porn addiction in a totally foreign way by flipping your brain to dislike doing bad things and to like good things.

there is no concrete “good” and “bad”

Coke addicts might think snorting everyday is great, fat people might think eating all day is the best.

It’s like hot iron. You have a shape in mind (purpose), and both positive and negative experiences help you get to that shape. Trying your best to avoid those negative ones or the positive ones is kind of like trying to get the iron to shape itself.

P.S. another good book is the subtle art of not giving a f*ck. Might counteract the morals of the easy peasy book, but I like it.

 

[Panos Daras]

When you create a plan to improve your life, it has to be something you can stick with for the rest of your life.

It might be hard sometimes, but it shouldn't be hard all the time.

At the end of the day, your routine should match your values as a person.

So, don't engage in self-destructive talk and behavior because they won't get you far. Treat yourself as your best friend. That's all you really have.

Yes, you can be fit and enjoy your workouts. Not 100% of the time. Sometimes you need to push yourself to go to the gym.

Yes, you can be thin and enjoy your diet. Not 100% of the time. Veggies are important too.

Yes, you can be a successful businessperson and enjoy your work. Not 100% of the time. Tax returns are essential but boring.

Life is much more nuanced.

What works for me is starting with small steps and building up resilience from there. One step at a time, you become stronger and better.

Hope that helps.

 

[Jon822]

There's some truth to this but it's mostly bs. In a context where easy is synonymous with efficient, then choose easy. In all other cases, plan on working hard. And more importantly, you shouldn't even waste thought on how difficult something is or will be -- just do what needs to be done. Otherwise, a job is the genius choice.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

This entire thread is a waste of time. Nothing actionable or insightful, the original post is LinkedIn style shitposting. “Here’s some totally arbitrary mental model I vomited out with no testing”.

That dumpster fire of a thread on getting laid was more useful than this.