Andy's Inbound/Sales Braindump

[Black_Dragon43]

If people are using that argument then I'll nod, smile, and move on.

Do you think that that's for the best though? This stuff gets me very riled up, because all this "fake" stuff, and lying actually makes the entire marketplace worse for everyone - for clients, and for sellers. Your potential prospects no longer trust you, so you suffer, and your clients struggle to find a reliable supplier because of all the BS out there. In addition, a lot of small business owners make VERY costly mistakes which put them out of business.

You yourself mentioned that when you tried to join a group for Irish business owners, the initial reaction was to label you as a marketer and not to trust you. Why do you think that is? Because these small business owners have seen on their own skin how dangerous the lies and fake information out there associated with marketing is. So we're all hurt by it.

Have you read Cialdini's Influence?

At the end of each chapter, the way to circumvent the method of influence discussed is always to be aware that it is a deception. And that it is carried out with ulterior motives. That things are not what they seem, or what the opposing party is trying to make them look like.

Cialdini goes further, and says that we have a duty to unmask the deceivers, since it is the only way to stop them.

Now, if every time when we encounter deception we turn away and go a different path, are we really helping to build a better marketplace for everyone? Are we really doing the most to help our clients?

 

[maverick]

Results is all what matters. This is my approach and these are the results that we've gotten for other clients.

People that use ad hominem attacks are weak. Be indifferent towards them.

Funnily enough, politicians only seem to be using ad hominem attacks nowadays.

 

[maverick]

I'm not disagreeing with the points you're making but they do all boil down to results.

An existing track record = results
You get knowledgeable through trial-and-error and experience = results
When you hire someone (ESPECIALLY on a sales/marketing role AND being an external company), you want them to add more value to the company then what they cost in expenses = results

 

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[Black_Dragon43]

I'm not disagreeing with the points you're making but they do all boil down to results.

An existing track record = results
You get knowledgeable through trial-and-error and experience = results
When you hire someone (ESPECIALLY on a sales/marketing role AND being an external company), you want them to add more value to the company then what they cost in expenses = results

I disagree (leaving aside that you're equivocating on the word results).

To give an example. I have hired a copywriter, who actually happens to be a member of this forum (I didn't know it at the time when I hired him. And he didn't know I was a member here either). When I hired him, he had 0 experience from what I could see. No previous clients, no results to show either from what I saw. And he was upfront about it. I liked that.

What he did have however was a portfolio that he created to show his skills. He had 3 sales letters, one for a product of his own that he was creating, and 2 for brands that he liked. He also sent me a list of the material that he studied for his education.

I had a chat with him, and we discussed some of his writings and what he had read.

I hired him on the spot. The moment I saw that, I knew I was dealing with a winner.

He was one of the best out of house copywriters that I ever hired. He only worked with one of our clients, but he did a PHENOMENAL job, on what was a huge project. He wrote sales pages, emails, sales scripts, powerpoint presentations and more. A truly outstanding person.

And I will say this: if the market wasn't so DUMB to care just about results, I would have had to pay a fortune to hire him. It's just the truth.

Results and experience are overrated by inexperienced business owners. And that's a fact, that I know on my own skin, because I've hired a ton of different people, and have seen a ton of different situations.

What should be valued most is knowledge and character. Which even many of the so called experts have very little of unfortunately.

When you hire someone (ESPECIALLY on a sales/marketing role AND being an external company), you want them to add more value to the company then what they cost in expenses = results

I don't look for that. I have no way of knowing if they will add more value to the company than they cost without trying them. Maybe you are a Nostradamus, I certainly am not . And once again, let's not forget that marketing is not an exact science. You could hire a very capable person and it can fail to work out. There are no guarantees. What I want in my corner is somebody who knows what they're doing, a real world-class expert with strong moral values, who has the knowledge required to make the best of the opportunity in front of him (which does NOT necessarily mean that he will succeed). That expert may never have worked for another client in his life. That doesn't matter.

 

[Andy Black]

Just sent to my newsletter:

Tips sending emails to people you've already chatted with

Someone asked how to send an email to someone they've already chatted with.

My personal preference is to write so people can scan/skim instead of having to read.

I generally use a 3 paragraph style with my emails:

1. Why I'm writing (1 short sentence).
2. The meat (1-2 short sentences).
3. What they can do if interested (1 short sentence).

If I'm trying to resurrect a conversation I've had previously then my goal would just be to start a conversation. If they're interested they'll reply. If not I'm happy to move on.

Note how I don't ask them outright if they need help. I ask if they know someone who needs help. If they need help then they can raise their hand, but I'm not putting pressure on them.

Also note how I mention Google Ads twice. I want them to think of me whenever Google Ads comes up.

Here's an example of what I might send:



Hi Bob

We spoke last year about Google Ads and getting more visitors to your website.

Some space has cleared up in our calendar and I'm wondering if you know anyone who's looking for help with their Google Ads?

Hope you're well.

Andy

 

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[Andy Black]

Blimey. Look what I wrote almost 10 years ago in my intro thread. 9 years later I'm still giving the same advice.

For people wondering how I get local businesses as clients (which I don't have many of by the way):

I don't consider myself an expert at face to face sales by any means, but off the top of my head...

Search Engine Marketing is all about being found by the people already looking for you. They are the easiest to sell to.

Once I started taking my own medicine and only taking inbound leads (word of mouth referrals, people finding me on LinkedIn), then everything fell into place.

Forget "selling"... it's all about helping them. If you focus on what they want, and not on what you want, then they see that and you're pushing against an open door.

Oh, and I know my website looks crap, but that's not the point. I only want to deal with people who are interested in the content, not the prettiness of the site. I will eventually beautify it, but it's not a high enough priority for me at the moment.

I am always open to meet businesses for a coffee. They buy me lunch, I waffle. It helps me to hone my stories.

I like telling stories. People remember stories, and I always tell the story about my brother-in-law.

I'm crap at closing, but I think that's mostly because I'm not really chasing the sale. If they're interested, they will circle back. If they aren't interested, I don't want to waste my time.

You *really* need to make sure you're not wasting your time on the wrong prospects.

Find out as quickly as you can whether they see the value in what you do, or the cost.

If the conversation is all about costs, then run. They will NEVER change, and they will always be squeezing you.

If their eyes light up because you provide exactly what they have been looking for, then you're in business (if you want it).

It's just then a case of working out HOW to align both your interests.

I've ended up going down the flat monthly rate route because that's how they mostly want to pay, and it's easiest for both parties.

Most small businesses have zero tracking, and most have a "budget" mentality rather than an "ROI" mentality.

"Let your customer pay you however they want to" was a line I read somewhere.

At the end of the day, a flat rate, % of PPC costs, pay-per-lead, pay-per-sale, % of profits, etc are all just different ways HOW to do the same thing.

Also, you're going to spend a lot of time dealing with them, so trust your gut, and only work with people you enjoy the company of.

(The reality is that I like producing content, and coaching and training. So rather than run campaigns for small businesses, I'd rather create some sort of info product and/or subscription based coaching site that helps them to get better themselves. If I can get to 50% creating content/coaching and 50% managing campaigns, then I'll be happy.)

 

[Tommo]

When your back's against the wall...

Someone gave me this advice a few years ago and it's got me out of a bind quite a few times since. On one occasion I was 2 days away from our mortgage payment looking at an empty warchest. This advice helped.

The advice?

Start sending hand crafted emails to all the people you've ever done work with. Make it short, friendly, and non-needy.

Example:

Hi Bob,

Hope you and your family are well.

Just thought I'd let you know some space has cleared in my calendar. If you need any help with AdWords or know anyone who does then just reach out.

We must catch up soon. It's long overdue!

Speak soon,
Andy

...

The important part is saying some space has cleared in your calendar. This isn't needy, but has them thinking how they can help you fill it.

Magic

 

[ManlyMansNegator]

I like this thread!

 

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[DisLife]

Hey

Thanks for the reply. I don't want to hijack your thread, but I did want to answer you...

I worked for an Oracle consulting company for a long time (developer/dba/infrastructure) and was privy to the quotes they were sending out to companies. Generally, they would average around $150 an hour. This is the competitive bill rate for consulting companies in the area. I actually enjoy the day to day work. To me it's mostly like trying to figure out a puzzle. My fast lane business is to build my own consulting agency. I spent a lot of years fighting against that, trying to build other businesses, since Oracle was my day job. I've had more success embracing that for the fast lane since I already have credibility in the marketplace and a larger network of people that I've already provided value to in my past as an employee. Those were my initial sales.

Trying to build up the inbound sales is a timely topic for me, since this is where I've plateaued. I'm toying with the idea of bringing in a sales person that has connections in the industry. I just want to look at what else I could be doing myself before I take that step. The complementary services idea is a great idea and something that I'm going to pursue.

Something else that worked well for me was to get to know businesses that provided complimentary services so that they could send me into their client sites either as a whitelabel subcontractor or just as a referral. One that springs to mind was a certified AIX and SAN shop. They didn't provide Oracle DBA services, but their clients often had a need for an Oracle DBA. I even got through to the interviews in a similar business to setup their Oracle DBA services wing. I didn't follow up on any of this because I wanted out of that industry.

 

[handog]

How I sometimes sell after someone has agreed to speak/meet me

Here's a 3 min video.

View: https://youtu.be/TPX85thTqvA



Great tips in the video. I especially like the idea of leaving something memorable with someone that continues to help them after the conversation is over.

 

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[ChristianS]

Really great content! In Germany now some gurus are telling you how to found an agency. Never bought a course, but what I saw in testimonials I think it is exactly this knowledge where they want XXXX € for.

Another question, I know it is kind of BS in my head but....

What if you choose, that you want to do something else? I think you can't easily get out of this because there are clients depending on you. In your posts I read that sometimes you are so full with orders, that you can't onboard new clients. I also think this business is hard to scale, because if you want, you need to found an agency. I don't now how it is in Ireland, but in Germany it would be hard to find employees with the needed skills. So don't you have fear to be stuck in forever?

I think I have to get inside to read all your posts there sometime.

 

[100ToOne]

Dude this thread is one of the best out there. Keep dumping!

 

[Andy Black]

What really tickles me is how we’ve sold over 40 landing pages without having a landing page to sell them from. And that I still don’t have a website to speak of, just a holding page for my business, and a personal branded domain that redirects to my LinkedIn profile - and I’m in the digital marketing space!

This reminds me of this thread:

• You don't need a website, you need sales

 

[James Fake]

I create an imbalance in the universe and let it try to right itself.

x 1000

 

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[mdivljina]

Can I just pop in and say thank you haha. Like I'm starting my cold calling today trying to sell my Adwords services to local business owners in Croatia and I'm definitely going to implement what you said and just offer them an hour of everything I know without a sales pitch. That's gonna be grand!

Thanks again and cheers!

 

[Miketing]

Well done applying it!

Did you email people? What did you write?

Mostly emails, yes. I sent a couple messages on Upwork and Skype but not even a reply to those. Nearly all the emails I sent at least got a response though, even if they weren't interested in my services.

Come to think of it, maybe I should try following up with the non-repliers some other way as well. They could just not be active on those platforms anymore.

Anyway, here's the one I sent to this guy who showed interest (just after NY obviously):

"Hey <Name>, Happy New Year!

How’s business these days? Still working from Dubai?

I thought I'd reach out and let you know some space has cleared in my calendar. If you need any help with Facebook Ads/funnels or know anyone who does then just let me know.

To the happiest and most productive year yet!

<My name>"

I was thinking afterwards that maybe I should have said something more results-oriented rather than "Facebook Ads/funnels" though - e.g. "If you need any help driving traffic and sales". What do you think?

 

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[Andy Black]

Mostly emails, yes. I sent a couple messages on Upwork and Skype but not even a reply to those. Nearly all the emails I sent at least got a response though, even if they weren't interested in my services.

Come to think of it, maybe I should try following up with the non-repliers some other way as well. They could just not be active on those platforms anymore.

Anyway, here's the one I sent to this guy who showed interest (just after NY obviously):

"Hey <Name>, Happy New Year!

How’s business these days? Still working from Dubai?

I thought I'd reach out and let you know some space has cleared in my calendar. If you need any help with Facebook Ads/funnels or know anyone who does then just let me know.

To the happiest and most productive year yet!

<My name>"

I was thinking afterwards that maybe I should have said something more results-oriented rather than "Facebook Ads/funnels" though - e.g. "If you need any help driving traffic and sales". What do you think?

I like that you said Facebook Ads. You’re now positioned in their minds as “The Facebook Ads Guy” the next time someone complains to them that their Facebook Ads are running like a dog.

 

[Andy Black]

Here's a video chatting about a lot of this stuff:
> AndyTalks with Sonny about getting his 1st digital marketing client

 

[maverick]

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All your examples in the last paragraph can also be manipulated.

Key quality for successful business owners is the ability to identify and harness talent. If you share your approach, results and spiel but they choose someone else to do the job then fair play to them.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

All your examples in the last paragraph can also be manipulated.

Two things:

1. People tend to manipulate the things that other people care most often about, on average. On average, people care about results (DUH!). Hence the attention and focus is on manipulating results. I actually have a guide about hiring freelancers that is selling on some forums (not here), and I go over this. I have hired close to 100 freelancers by now, and spent around $40,000 on them.

As a side note, I could never understand why people are so blinded by results, but most still are.

2. Character, an existing track record, and direct knowledge cannot be manipulated, at least not that easily. I know how to run FB ads. If I hire someone to do it, I know what they need to do. They're not coming in to some dummy business person that doesn't know what he's doing and just wants to see results. No, they come face to face with an expert, probably one who knows more than they do in most cases. So I will ask them technical questions. I will see what strategies they suggest. I will see how they carry themselves. What they put the accent on, and so on. I tend to hire people who are HONEST, even when it doesn't benefit them, who have an existing track record, and who are very knowledgeable. I don't care about results - I know marketing is not an exact science to begin with, and you could be very good at getting results for client A, and terrible in doing so for client B. But knowledge, character, and experience are the three most important factors.

 

[tonibob]

Results are important, as this is how you get paid. If there is no added value, why would somebody pay you?
Regarding choosing who to work with it is totally different matter, if you choose the person with the greatest results and he has no character, no integrity, no energy, just showing of his results, you have made really bad choice. I believe everybody with a Character who has Integrity, Energy and Honesty can achieve tremendous success, despite the fact he has 0 results. Results are not constant, but Character is!

My two cents on the heated debate .

 

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[Andy Black]

Yeah, I know, I've seen that. My point though is that the only reason she started by distrusting you is that the marketplace has become filled with snakes. We all (clients and honest service providers) get hurt when deception becomes more and more common, and the trust between service providers and clients gets eroded.


I have asked you this before, and you have told me that you prefer shrugging and doing your thing. But do you reckon that this improves the situation? Do you just not want to deal with it? Do you think it's not worth dealing with? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from on this, since I think that we both agree that deception in the marketplace is a problem for all (honest) participants. My question is really, how should we go about solving this problem, together, as a community? And what should we do as individuals?

My goal is to help my clients get found by consumers looking for them. Me going on a crusade doesn't help my clients. I can't invoice them for going on a crusade either.

I'm not bothered what the marketplace is filled with, or what everyone else is doing. Sure, I keep an eye on it to make sure I don't have their signature but I'll run my own race. In fact, I think all the BS is making it easier to stand out and get clients.

 

[Nomads]

As requested by @Andy Black here are some notes I wrote up on this topic.

Basically, picked out the parts I found most relevant to my business & didn't want to forget. Copy & pasting some aspects and wrote my own little notes. May be useful to someone new reading this thread as well! Also has information from the Spend Your Money On Diesel & Coffee thread.

Sorry if it's a bit all over the place. Was really supposed to just be notes for myself but hopefully someone can find value in it as well!

Let everyone know what you do
Talk about what you do naturally with everyone you see. Drop it into conversations and share. Become known as a resource for what you do and share advice for free wherever you can so people remember you.

Tell everyone - think of interesting aspects of what you do and use those as talking points as well. Don't drone on about the technical aspects, but talk about the aspects that people care about. I.E. #1 Google Ranking, Fast Loading Websites, etc.

Want to get known as the “XYZ Guy”?
- Talk about XYZ
- Help people with XYZ
- Be seen to help people with XYZ

Show Don’t Tell
On top of talking make sure you SHOW what you do. Tell stories that SHOW how you do it.

"Oh, I know a guy who does AdWords. He helped his electrician friend get going by running ads and finding out that 5,000 of the 10,000 searches one month were to do with washing machine, cooker, and oven repairs. They then built washing machine, cooker, and oven repair websites and shutdown the electrican website. His friend’s phone then leapt off the hook."

Ask about them first - ASK what they do - relate it back to what you do.

Example being about to show how keyword rankings from SEO have increased since the new website. Show them actual analytics.

Follow Up With People
Send hand-crafted messages to everyone you know. In a short, friendly, non-needy way offer your help.

Example:

Hi Bob,

Hope you and your family are well.

Just thought I'd let you know some space has cleared in my calendar. If you need any help with AdWords or know anyone who does then just reach out.

We must catch up soon. It's long overdue!

Speak soon,
Andy

The important part is saying some space has cleared in your calendar. This isn't needy, but has them thinking how they can help you fill it.

Contact People You Know
Contact people who already trust you and have done business with you. Meet with people and try to talk to them and see what they need. Let them tell you their problems and help them solve them.

Good relationships are beneficial as that person will spread your name around.

Offer to meet with people and help them with their business over lunch - no sale necessary. Give 100% of the best advice you can in an hour or so to them. No pitch, no sales. Chances are they will ask YOU to help them in the end instead of doing it themselves.

Contact old connections you have lost touch with, etc and do this for lunch frequently.

Consider the following plan:

1) Use your existing network first.

2) Add to your existing network by doing such a good job that clients refer you on, and by being seen to help folks.

3) Use cold traffic *after* you've worked out how to sell to people who already know, like, and trust you.

Talk to Everyone
Tell EVERYONE what you do and SHOW how you do it and how it could help them with their problems.

Even if someone doesn’t become a client, it is one more person who knows you and what you do. They can pass that along to someone who may become a client.

Brief Emails
Give a website owner something of value in a quick email without selling them anything.

“Hi,

Spotted a wee typo:

<screenshot>

Andy”

.

“Hi,

I get this when I click on the Facebook link on your website:

<screenshot>

Andy”

May open a conversation where you can then offer more help.

If not it ultimately loops back into getting your name out there and in front of people so that they may think of you next time they need help. Offer value & service wherever possible.


Diesel And Coffee
Put in the effort to build relations and don’t just try to sell people things. Reconnecting with past connections will pay off enormously in the future.

Reach out to contacts you have lost touch with and try to arrange a time to meet and catch up. Don’t go in with a sales mindset but rather approach them with an open conversation about how you could both possibly help each other in the future.

Specifically for connections that own/manage businesses.

Loops back into following up with people you know & following up with people.

The more you get your name in front of people casually and share what you do, the more likely you pop into mind when they actually need your help.

 

[Andy Black]

Ha. This was cool.



I wrote it up a bit more here:

• Your freelancer website doesn't have to be complicated

 

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[Andy Black]

Posted to my Figuring Out LinkedIn thread just now:

So a 1st connection who I'd never chatted to or messaged spotted my posts on LinkedIn recently.

Two months ago he started in a new company as Head of Growth and realised they needed Google Ads help.

We hopped on a Zoom with his marketing manager where I looked over their shoulder at their account.
(Exactly like I describe here.)

They became a €3k/mth consulting client this week.

All through the power of me being positioned as "The XYZ Guy" in his mind.

Note that most of my recent LinkedIn posts have NOT even been about Google Ads. Google Ads is sprinkeld into those posts and it's enough to put me top of mind with someone who already knows what I do.

Note that I didn't need a website for this either. Maybe he checked it out as part of his due diligence, but it's equally likely he didn't. The conversation started in LinkedIn DMs and then we took it to Zoom.

 

[Andy Black]

A convo today:

 

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[Nomso8370]

The TL;DR about positioning yourself

Want to get known as "The XYZ Guy"?

1) Talk about XYZ.

2) Help people with XYZ.

3) Be seen helping people with XYZ.

This is the best thing I have read all year. It is right on time. Building my brand as an "Engineer in Personal Finance", and been failing at it. I now have a target. Thank you again.

 

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[Andy Black]

This is the best thing I have read all year. It is right on time. Building my brand as an "Engineer in Personal Finance", and been failing at it. I now have a target. Thank you again.

I'm glad it helped.

I don't know what an Engineer in Personal Finance is. Maybe people don't. Take note of how other people introduce you and what they call you, and consider leaning into that.

 

[DW85014]

Reach out to people who already know you


In the last few weeks I've had to hustle up a few clients to get my revenue back up to minimum levels.

The approach of contacting people who have already done business with me has worked very well.

Also, I deal a lot with agencies rather than end clients. So when they know I am available again, they can bring a few new clients to me in one go.

The beauty of subcontracting to agencies is that they do the selling for you, because they want to sell in their whole bundle of services, and you're just supplying part of it.

Are there local agencies near to you? Can you connect with agency owners on LinkedIn and say you've just gone freelance and would like some advice on how to grow your business?

I know a guy who recently jumped from permie land to setting up his own agency and he's done this. The absolute majority of marketing directors or agency owners he's contacted have congratulated him on the move and congratulated him on reaching out. If they are free they have all accepted his request to meet for a coffee.

I met this guy for a coffee too.

When you meet people, be open, be honest, and listen to them. Take action, and let them know you have. Also, manners (please and thank you) go a VERY long way.

You need to specialise and have them remember you as "The XYZ Guy". For me it's "The AdWords Guy".

Maybe you specialise in skillset ("The Guy Who Does Google Shopping Ads"), or maybe you specialise in vertical ("The Guy Who Builds Websites & Campaigns For Vets").

Go into each meet with an open mind. Don't push an agenda. Let them talk and try to find out what it is they need.

Try to break the "dance" of two people talking formally. Open up and converse with them as person to person.

If they know what you do, how you do it, what results you get (preferably by telling stories they can remember and retell to others), then your actual work is likely to come from THEIR network, not necessarily them.

Ideally, they leave knowing you as "The XYZ Guy" so when one of their friends or clients says they are having problems with XYZ, your name pops into mind immediately.

A few good relationships where you've met and know them is worth way more than 100 cold calls imo.

Business is all about relationships.

Hope this helps.

Awesome thoughts !

 

[heeya]

Thank you for valuable posts.

I have a question for you.
I'm new in marketing and trying to get clients from freelance platform. I really want to help solving their marketing problem, but I'm not sure I can make results. Is it because of my mindset or I really don't know. It would be appreciated if you could give me advice.

 

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