Building Software Through Idea Extraction

[Tiago]

I’ve tried a few businesses and they didn’t really work out. As a matter of fact, most of the times I didn’t even start. I’m going to change this, right here, right now.

This thread will be here to keep me accountable, as well as maybe pass on something valuable to a fellow fastlaner along the way.

I’m going the idea extraction way. I’ll use @MTF's "Let's Get Offline And Solve Some Real B2B Problems" thread as a rough guide.


I will eliminate industries that:

• are difficult to get a decision maker on the phone
• are too technical
• don’t have people with the mindset I’m looking to interact with
• are smaller than 10.000 businesses in my country
• have a revenue lower than 100k per year

I am left with these industries:

Hotels and Guesthouses
Construction Equipment and Services
Real estate - Buying, Renting & Selling
Pharmacies
Gym Clubs
Automotive Parts - Selling & Distribution
Bars & Clubs
Automotive Repair Shops
Shoe Retail Shops
Construction Materials
Used Car Dealerships
Fashion Retail Shops
Restaurants
Real Estate Management

I will further eliminate industries that don’t really interest me. My list is further trimmed down to:

Hotels and Guesthouses
Real Estate - Buying, Renting & Selling
Gym Clubs
Automotive Parts - Selling & Distribution
Construction Materials
Used Car Dealerships
Restaurants
Real Estate Management


I will dig deeper in these industries and come up with a picked industry next post.

I am also currently reading “Unlimited Power” by Tony Robbins. I want to improve on my mindset and achieve what I set out to do.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

Good luck @Tiago. I'll be watching your thread and try to help whenever I can.

Regarding the industries you've chosen:

• Real Estate - Buying, Renting & Selling - these people are very busy and you'll probably have to reach them by phone (cold emailing won't work very effectively)
  
• Restaurants - decision makers are extremely busy

Please keep in mind that in some industries people are pitched all the time and it's very hard to reach decision makers.

It won't hurt you to explore several industries. For the next few days, you can reach out to people in 2-3 industries to find out which one is most responsive.

 

[Tiago]

Thank you @MTF, I'll do my best.

I agree with those points. I'm going to be scraping off contacts and emails from the top 15 players in each industry, and after that send each a personalized email.

I've also added death care services in my list, as it's a business that won't go away soon and is very outdated.

 

[Tiago]

I'm going for the top players in my industry, and it's really hard to get their email addresses. That's fine though, just means I have to try different angles at getting them.

Also, today on ProductHunt, a new tool appeared that is gold for whoever is trying to get email addresses from a company. Check out emailhunter.co

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

I found LinkedIn much easier and more effective in reaching top players than cold emailing them. I guess that direct mail would work even better.

 

[Tiago]

So far I've:

• Emailed 50 people in my niche, each with a personalized email.

• Created a CRM embedded with gmail using streak.com (can really recommend it)

• Created a process system (detailed here https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/co...eate-a-abnormal-work-ethic.59975/#post-457456)

• Learned more about NLP, which is being really good for keeping my head in the game.

Oddly, I received only ONE reply, and that was from a direct contact (friend from a friend). I thought they were going to be more responsive about emailing.

What I'll do next:

• Drum up a script for cold calling. Maybe emailing is the wrong way to go.

• Better define my customer avatar as in what is their demographic, annual income, gender, family status, location, what they like about their work, main form of communicating with their clients, where they spend most of their time and what is important about them.

• Start cold calling. I'm not too nervous about it. I don't remember who posted a few days ago why he doesn't stress out about cold calling and it resonated with me. These people need me. I'm saving them money, time and giving them a better way to do business. Nothing stressful about that.

 

[Tiago]

Okay, things have been moving!

I've received a few responses to my emails and they all talk about the same problem. I have an idea in my mind that could help them generate more revenue and bring in more clients.

This is just an assumption though, so now I'll:

• Schedule 30 talks or meetings to confirm this need and validate the idea. If they're interested, pre-sell them on a closed beta.

• I would like to offer them something of value in return for their meeting, so I'l prepare a little gift or maybe some valuable information they can use in their business.

• Talk to independent developers in my city. I see lots of developers meetups, next weekend I'm also participating on an event called "Startup Weekend" where you build teams and create businesses in a intensive weekend. I'm sure I'll meet some interesting people there.

So far I've:

• Written how my product is going to look like, so developers can better understand the scope of the project.

• Got a meeting scheduled for Monday for idea validation.

• Prepared my cold calling script.

• Sorted out 30 top players in my industry to call them these next few days for idea validation.

• Talked to my local developers agencies asking for a quote on my project.

• Read more on "Unlimited Power" by Tony Robbins. What a great book! Thank you @AndrewNC and @MTF for motivating me to read it.

• Read the A Reading Strategy That Actually Works and sorted out some of my favorite books and took some notes of it on Evernote.

• Added another thing to my system which is "Implement one lesson from a good book per day in your life".

P.S.: The power of systems! I have in my system to contact one person that I either look up to, admire their expertise or their way of life. I did this, but never would've dreamed that person would answer me, but he did! He is actually helping me find good developers to get my project going. I really look forward to being able to provide him value too in the future as he has for me.

Thanks @Silverhawk851 for your post !

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

Tip: if you want to show developers how your product is going to work, don't write about it - create detailed mock-ups with "if-then."

 

[Tiago]

Update!

I've talked to lots and lots of people in my niche, and they all have the same complaints. So I went, thought of a software which could eliminate all those pains and proceeded to validate.

I've also written a pitch, with a little elevator pitch, what problems customers have, my solution, size of market, a short business model, my competition and how I'll acquire customers.

So I went on and called them with the solution, and out of 35 people asked, 33 said they would use it and pay for it. This is amazing news!

I love this idea as well because it provides so much value to them and to their clients, and it would facilitate their lives immensely.

My next big task is finding a development team. I would like 1-2 developers, 1 mobile developer and 1 designer.

I don't want people only for their technical knowledge. I want people who are positive and who like new challenges and experimenting. I believe a company is only as good as its people.

These are the ways I'm thinking of finding people for my team:

Development related events.
Meetups through meetup.com.
Talking to university professors, if they have any exceptional students who they could recommend.
Contact top players in software companies in my region.
Searching people through Facebook, LinkedIn and Twitter and reaching out.
Making a video like SnazzyRoom (I wouldn't know how to distribute it properly though. Ask for friends to share it in Facebook?)

Do you have any other ideas on how to find good developers for your team? Or any advice on hiring them?

 

[tafy]

My advice is that you need luck and perseverance. Good luck man.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

out of 35 people asked, 33 said they would use it and pay for it.

Please, please, ask them to send you money right now to fund the development. Asking people if they would buy means nothing. There's no commitment. Asking them to give you money right away - that's the true test. Show some mock-ups and other stuff, but please ask them to pay now.

 

[wolfie]

Awesome action taken so far just don't forget, someone saying that they are willing to pay for something and them actually handing out the money are two very different things. Not saying they don't love the product, just don't forget, presales are KING. Good luck, ill be following along!

 

[Tiago]

I'm not sure how I would best pre-sell here. The price scales up the more users they have, but I'd offer it free it they have one client only, and start charging when user > 1.

How could I get a pre sale on something that I'd offer for free first anyway?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[wolfie]

The question then becomes how can you provide them enough value upfront, that they would want to give you money before its developed. Ask them if they want to be a premium member for this software? The benefits might be that they get all the updates and releases early, if they get in early they get to choose the features that they want. Think of some benefits that you can provide them. Always try to make it a win-win situation.

Just some ideas!

EDIT: Also going along with what MTF said earlier about the mockups, the best software I've seen is keynotopia. If you can build the rough draft with that, you can use it to show your developers and also use it to show your clients you are serious about this and that you need money to fund it.

 

[Tiago]

Update:

• I've been talking to more and more clients, learning about their problems and building an email list.
• Went four days on a Developers Conference here in my city and made lots of contacts and got a few good recommendations.
• Contacted all organizers and lecturers of that conference.
• Went to a few developer meetups to get leads.

My biggest focus and effort right now is finding a good developer team. I would need at least two to launch my first product, with a responsive mobile website. After I've launched it, I'll work on a native mobile app.

The search for good developers in my city is absolutely insane. We are called the innovation center of Brazil, and because of that there's a lot of competition. Which actually is a good thing, it's making a lot of people move here because of jobs.

About the pre-sales. I understand they are king, but I'd rather focus my efforts in building the software and a customer list. I have money to fund this and know that if I provide value, they will use it.

That's also another reason why pre-sales are hard here. My website doesn't instantly offer them benefits. They have to use it, acquire clients through the platform (which I will teach them step by step how to do it), and after they get how it works, their growth is exponential. It's a lot of content I have to prepare, to write well and make it understandable.

 

[tafy]

I have money to fund this and know that if I provide value, they will use it.

If you can self fund this is great, then you are able to raise money later on for equity or if you are lucky you dont need to raise more money (but you probably do)

pm me when you start the whole thing as I am going through the same thing but nearly done on product development.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Tiago]

So I've just talked to another 5 clients today, all of whom loved the idea. Slowly building an email list.

This list is just for validation right now, and to show prospective developers that we have a real business going here, not just a "Hey I've got an idea let's build it" kind of thing. Once I get the development going, I'll build a landing page to get early adopters, slowly drip feed them valuable content and our progress.

I've talked to two developers this morning. They didn't have the necessary skill set though. Even though I value the person more than their skills, they still need to have some technical knowledge to do quick deploy of the software.

With every meeting I'm getting valuable lessons though. A lot of the times they have some tips to give me (today they gave me some GREAT suggestions about the usability of the website). I'm also learning how to interview better, seeing as this is new territory for me.

Best thing of the week: A developer I met at the Developers Conference that happened here is a real rockstar in the JavaScript development community. He's a really cool dude and down to earth, and he is hosting a meetup this Saturday with around 75 attendees. I've been talking to him and he offered to let me go on stage to do a quick pitch of my idea! I have begun refining my pitch immediately and will be practicing it until Saturday. Let's see how it goes!

 

[Tiago]

The one thing that is helping me tremendously, and I wanted to share this as I'm certain it could be of value to someone here.

Talking with your customers before launching.

I know, I know. We've all heard that before. But there's still people who don't do it. Just yesterday I learnt about a colleague that spent 9 months building an app for comparing grocery prices from different stores, and when he went to pitch to the big stores, nobody wanted. They said people who compare prices are not their target customers and they have absolutely zero interest in it. 9 months down the drain.

Talking to customers gave me so much insight. There were problems I thought they faced which didn't even exist. They uncovered new, huge pains that I couldn't possibly imagine. Right now I'm always starting off my conversations with this one sentence:

"What is the biggest problem you face in your job today?"

What this does is allow me to focus on the main problems they have and spend all my energy building a product that will eliminate them. Another BIG reward is that I can extract the 3 biggest problems they have, and use that in my future landing page copy, directly resulting in sales.

Tip: Record the calls you make. You can analyze them after the call better and you can present them to new members of the team or investors as a part of your pitch. I use Skype and record with QuickTime Player.

 

[tafy]

The grocery comparison thing is a big market, his customer isn't the grocery shops but consumers, he was asking the wrong people tbh.

Here in the UK its very big, you can look at a recipe which connects to one of these comparison websites and it tells you the price to buy all the ingredients from which supermarket.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Tiago]

Yes, but for that they need access to the inventory of the big supermarket chains, and they won't give him access. I hope they do succeed, but as far as I know they already dropped the project.

Yesterday I talked to a developer and it was the best meeting I've ever had! Really humble, down to earth guy, fun to be around, intelligent and has around 6 years experience developing. I know this is going to be my first hire! He is a mobile developer, and I need one back-end and another front-end developer to get it going. We agreed to do small freelance projects of 2-4 weeks at the beginning to see if we can work together and so I can see his code quality. As I'm not able to review his code, I'll ask for an expert friend to go over it and see if it's clean and well documented.

Tip: For anyone starting a business in the SaaS world, I'd really recommend the Groove blog. They have some great content on first hires, how to optimize for conversions, what to watch out for, tools and tips to increase performance. Really a great blog.

 

[tafy]

Groove blog is great!

Well they managed to get the data in the UK, then what they did was partner up with one of the big supermarkets so that after you have done your shopping it told you how much you saved against its competitor, and if the bill was higher than a competitor it would automatically print out a coupon for the difference to use on the next visit.

Then that supermarket went big on advertising saying they guaranteed the best pricing or they will pay the difference.

Now to give up on this project is a bit of a shame, all they needed to do was do stuff that doesnt scale, like pay people to go check prices weekly in each chain for the items in question. Sooner or later with old prices getting shown they will want to open up their data to the company, and do a marketing deal like I mentioned above.

So your project sounds kinda large if you need 3 developers, good devs are like $4-6k a month, so you better have deep pockets?

 

[OverByte]

Do you have any other ideas on how to find good developers for your team? Or any advice on hiring them?

I would recommend reaching out on Linked In or any public meetups as you are doing. I would definitely stay away from anyone who doesn't have actual experience (no college kids, new hires, etc) of at least 2 years and ideally more. A seasoned developer will make far less mistakes and get product out much quicker.

My words of wisdom would be to make a very bare bones MVP release as soon as possible and build metrics into everything (using Google analytics or similar tool). This is because you won't know what features users will actual use until they actually start using those features and you see it with hard data. Even if a user tells you they think a feature would be great, start with a very basic version, and see if they use that before building anything complex/costly. Then you can iterate based on received feedback. Less waste, more value.

I'd recommend you read The Lean Startup. It describes an iterative approach to developing capability. Getting stuff out early and getting feedback and soon as possible. It's pretty short and has a lot of great advice and case-studies of real businesses.

In my experience (some startup / some big players) you're better off shipping something early and getting feedback (even if it isn't anywhere near your product vision) than spending a lot of resources building out capabilities people may not use. The early feedback will allow you to validate a lot of assumptions you will inevitably have to make while designing the product vision.

Once you have the MVP clearly defined and you have a strong developer you know you are going to hire I would recommend going over the entire list of requirements for the MVP with him/her and asking them how long it would take them to develop (alone). If the time is far greater than you would like then look at bringing in more people. A lot of times on a software project more people will lead to diminishing returns as they tend to get in each others way, introduce bugs, want to do things different and so they refactor the code, etc. It works much better if you have a clear segregation in capability (like a backend & frontend piece) however, if the work is scope is small enough (and I believe for MVP it should be) if you find 1 developer with the requisite skill set then they may finish the job more efficiently than hiring multiple developers. Just food for thought.

Finally, if you are going to expand into a mobile app / multiple clients in the future. Make sure all front ends (including webrowser) are completely driven off of API calls (like REST API) served up by a backend for all data they need. That way when you go to develop the additional clients you know they have all the data they need (since they may not be co-located or have access to same services - such as database, etc).

Hope that helps.

If you have any specific technical questions or questions about dealing with developers (outlining requirements/use cases, user stories, design guidelines, etc) don't be afraid to reach out to me on PM. I have quite a bit of development experience (though most of it is non-web).

Good luck, looking forward to hearing about your progress.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MTF]

I'd recommend you read The Lean Startup. It describes an iterative approach to developing capability. Getting stuff out early and getting feedback and soon as possible. It's pretty short and has a lot of great advice and case-studies of real businesses.

I'd read this book first: https://gettingreal.37signals.com/

I found The Lean Startup very confusing and boring, but that's just me, a non-technical person.

 

[Tiago]

@tafy That is true. I will talk to them and try to help them see it by another angle. They could turn it around if they wanted to.

@OverByte I'm searching for people with at least 3 years of developing experience. This is what I would be doing, a really, really simple MVP so they get to know how it works and get feedback from the users. Myself being a UX tester I really emphasize on simplicity. It's also one of the biggest suggestions my clients gave me "It has to be easy to use." The advice of building metrics into everything is gold, thank you. Groove has been doing, they gather data from EVERYTHING and then you can build assumptions on that and test out removing features, tweaking some, adding a little here and there to optimize performance.

I've heard about the Lean Startup, but never read it. I understand the basic concept behind it though, to do an iteration of your project, get feedback, evaluate, act and do it all over again, trying to maintain the feedback loop as short and tight as possible. I'll give it another look.

That's a great idea about getting only 1 developer! The project itself though, even if only an MVP, does have a lot of back-end that needs programming. I'll ask a good friend developer of mine how long he'd take to do it.

Thank you for the tip about the API. As a native app is an absolute must, this will help a lot.

@MTF Already read a bit and it's really good. Thanks for the share.

 

[tafy]

I dont know what your building but if you want to make a bare bones mvp then you only need 1 developer and 1 designer. You dont need mobile app version at all if you make it responsive, but depends what your making, maybe it really needs an app? who knows.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[wolfie]

One of my buddies builds software and just posted this. He's built 5-6 different monthly software businesses. Thought it might be useful for ya.

Little software development hiring tip for anyone looking to get started and want to avoid a major pitfall

1. Make everything part time and on a weekly basis for at least the first two months. Also start them off with a very small job (like coding a UI or web page)

2. The single most important quality in a developer is their ability to communicate and be timely. Most software does not require a coding genius to get the job done and decent coding skill + consistent work is all thats needed.

When you are hiring online (Aka non office jobs) you will constantly run into developers who do not message back quickly or are a pain to get a hold of.

When you first get started, you will probably think because a person can code they are "important". Trust me they are not, and millions of people can code and will kill to work somewhere consistently. Whats important is your direction and getting stuff done,

Kick these f$@kers to the curb the second they do this without an excuse no matter how talented they are. The amount of damage they can do to your business via time wasted and the time it takes to replace them is insane.

Again, do not put up with this and do not invest much in any developer no matter how "important" they seem

Be good to people, but if people cannot respond timely fire them in the first days of working with them.

Just kicked 2 of these shenanigans to the curb today within 2 days of their test work. Hire slow and fire fast, fast, fast.

 

[Tiago]

While building my pitch for this weekend, I just noticed a big thing!

I was adding a feature that not even ONE of my clients said they were having pain with. I thought it was important and I would like to have it if I were in their shoes. They didn't say they needed it.

Sometimes you just have to step back and look at the whole thing.

Eliminating this unnecessary feature will cut down development cost by quite a bit.

 

[Tiago]

My pitch is ready! Hope they like it

How I structured it:

1. Very short introduction of myself
2. Short description of the SaaS
3. How I got the idea
4. The 3 main problems I extracted
5. How I validated
6. Market & Competition
7. Who I'm looking for and values of my company

Any last tips?

Note: It's a pitch for developers. I'm speaking on stage in front of 100 developers this weekend on a meetup, searching for talent to do this project.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[OverByte]

Looks pretty damn good. Good luck!

 

[Tiago]

So, the meetup went great! I got lots of people interested and applying for interviews.

This week I've interviewed 10 people, and have around 15 more scheduled. I have two candidates which I like, I'll keep interviewing more people and see how that goes.