Fed up with your country and people? Where is left to live in peace in 2022.

[OneManWolfPack]

Hello guys,

I really enjoyed the thread Fed Up With Your Country? Where Is Left To Go? I was happy to see a lot of great advice about where to move with "C" craziness. Right now, we do have not only C19 but also war in Europe which can escalate a lot, and even if not, the situation is not going to be good anyway soon, and the tension will stay sure for years. I'm pretty fed up with my country(no matter where I live, but it is 4 seasons quite cold, not too much sun). I'm considering moving to one location which I will probably pick for my retirement. I can choose any destination in the world. What would you think to be a good one? What one would you like? I'm watching especially for:

Countries that show less stupid C19 restrictions were a great indicator of how foolish people and their governments are. Period. I would never go to Australia, for example, never ever. I wanted to go there, but it was a permanent "no, no."
- Political safety from war - I think that any place like Germany, the Czech Republic, Poland, and any nearby Baltic sea can be safe in terms of nuclear or conventional war threat
- Looking for places with well established nuclear plants, I would not like to live close to one, so I would pick a city far away from one with no potential of a new one close
- Looking for a place with good freshwater independence and exceptionally good food independence with an opportunity to grow some food on your own
- I was considering some islands, but I would not like to be dependent on a ferry or plane to get out of there if SHTF, so this would be my little "no, no," but if you know islands with reasonable self reliance I could consider those as well
- I would still like to have the possibility to have access to things like amazon prime deliveries, easy accessibility to the airport, ferries etc. to travel the world when it gets better and to have a chance to move far away just by car if needed

Any ideas? My first bet was the Canary Islands. I was even looking for a home there in La Palma Luckily I did not find anything My main objection is that it relies on others too much, hard to travel from, so I'm moving toward continental Europe. Are any people in Spain right now? I was thinking about Malaga, for example, any experience? I like that city is close to the city and mountains, has a big airport, far from nuclear plants, I do not feel that anybody would like to fight over it. But it is still close to all those war opened countries. I'm not sure also how are politics in Spain? How the restrictions, mandatory jabs, and all that was? What is the situation of food supply and freshwater out there? Water quality in general? I was also thinking of Switzerland but now I'm more toward the sun than winter. I was considering Thailand, but because of the geopolitical situation with Taiwan, this region will be hot as well for sure now or in the future.

I know that my points can be extreme for some, but the most important thing is just to live a peaceful life. I was doing really crazy things in my life in the past, but I just had enough of all that. The situation in the world is hurting my brain so much with all those super-intelligent people out there ruling the world. The approach to life of those marvelous, free, open-minded new generations also makes a massive pain in my head that I just cannot listen to and watch anymore. So I plan to semi-retire to do as much as needed to live a comfortable life. A lot of sun, fresh air and peace.

Hope to get some good advice from you out there. I see a lot of brilliant thinking people out here. And it is not common those days.

Have a good day guys!

 

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[MTF]

Countries that show less stupid C19 restrictions were a great indicator of how foolish people and their governments are. Period. I would never go to Australia, for example, never ever. I wanted to go there, but it was a permanent "no, no."

One of the countries that I most enjoyed visiting was Australia. I felt so good there I even considered moving there. After C19, I also view it differently.

- Political safety from war - I think that any place like Germany, the Czech Republic, Poland, and any nearby Baltic sea can be safe in terms of nuclear or conventional war threat

Based on what you wrote in your post, I assume you meant they aren't safe?

I'm not sure I agree with that. As apocalyptic as media may paint it, NATO countries are way safer than you think. But maybe let's leave this topic aside.

- Looking for places with well established nuclear plants, I would not like to live close to one, so I would pick a city far away from one with no potential of a new one close

I don't get it. You want a place with nuclear plants but don't want to live close to one? Or a place where they won't build one?

There are plenty of countries that don't have nuclear plants. In fact, the vast majority of countries don't have them. Only 31 countries have operating reactors.

- Looking for a place with good freshwater independence and exceptionally good food independence with an opportunity to grow some food on your own

This may help for food security:

Global Food Security Index (GFSI)

The Global Food Security Index (GFSI) is an annual assessment measuring food security through affordability, availability, quality and safety, and sustainability and adaptation metrics worldwide.

impact.economist.com

For freshwater, that might be a bit hard if you also want nice, sunny weather most of the time.

- I was considering some islands, but I would not like to be dependent on a ferry or plane to get out of there if SHTF, so this would be my little "no, no," but if you know islands with reasonable self reliance I could consider those as well

This actually can be helpful because it means people wouldn't be able to get there and the island could be sheltered from the bad stuff. New Zealand is one such example (as proven by C19).

- I would still like to have the possibility to have access to things like amazon prime deliveries, easy accessibility to the airport, ferries etc. to travel the world when it gets better and to have a chance to move far away just by car if needed

Oh man you're making it so difficult. Amazon Prime doesn't operate in that many countries:

of October 2021, Prime memberships are available in 23 countries: Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, Poland, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, the UK, and the US.

Any ideas? My first bet was the Canary Islands. I was even looking for a home there in La Palma Luckily I did not find anything

I lived in the Canary Islands last year (or more precisely, switched islands every 1-2 weeks for 2.5 months), including La Palma.

I could say a lot about the archipelago but if deliveries from online stores are important to you then this is not a good idea. Most online stores (including those based in mainland Spain) don't ship to the Canary Islands because of ridiculous customs policies (you're in Spain but in reality you aren't).

Are any people in Spain right now? I was thinking about Malaga, for example, any experience? I like that city is close to the city and mountains, has a big airport, far from nuclear plants, I do not feel that anybody would like to fight over it. But it is still close to all those war opened countries. I'm not sure also how are politics in Spain? How the restrictions, mandatory jabs, and all that was? What is the situation of food supply and freshwater out there? Water quality in general?

I like Malaga. Southern Spain is dry with droughts occasionally affecting the region. A lot of food is grown there and in some areas you can even grow tropical fruits. Tap water is 100% safe to drink but depending on the area sometimes the taste isn't that great. Also, in many places there's shitty infrastructure (old pipes) and you can't throw toilet paper into the toilet.

C19-wise, Spain was absolutely F*cking ridiculous and one of the worst in the world. Almost every single Spaniard was 100% obedient with mask-wearing, wearing it literally everywhere.

I saw this so many times and I still couldn't believe it. 6-year old kids playing football wearing masks outside in 25+ degrees Celsius weather in full sun. People driving cars masked. People walking alone on an early morning with nobody in sight wearing a mask. People hiking in a mask. Surfers wearing a mask on the beach.

You couldn't enter a supermarket with your mask under your nose and if they saw you lowering it even for a second they'd be shouting at you already.

Politics in Spain are a complete disaster and Spain is one of the most socialist countries in the world. Economically, the situation is also terrible and unlikely to change anytime soon.

I know that my points can be extreme for some, but the most important thing is just to live a peaceful life. I was doing really crazy things in my life in the past, but I just had enough of all that. The situation in the world is hurting my brain so much with all those super-intelligent people out there ruling the world. The approach to life of those marvelous, free, open-minded new generations also makes a massive pain in my head that I just cannot listen to and watch anymore. So I plan to semi-retire to do as much as needed to live a comfortable life. A lot of sun, fresh air and peace.

Don't get me wrong but I think the problem is largely inside your head, not in the world. Based on your alarmist/pessimistic tone in this post, I'm sure that wherever you go, you won't ever find peace. Also, it seems like you did zero research on the places/criteria you mentioned in your post.

I only did it for you because I love talking about this topic but generally speaking, people on forums like this don't like people asking questions with answers that are easy to find in Google.

 

[OneManWolfPack]

Hello MTF,

I appreciate your reply.

You are correct; I think that anything in the mentioned region is safe anymore. I do not care about NATO. When I saw how people in power easily make decisions about other people's lives, I understand that we are just pawns on the chessboard, and literally our life does not matter at all. We are ruled mainly by idiots, and I would never die for those idiots. Do not get me wrong, in the past, I was the first person to go to war, and I have the knowledge and skills to do it, but I know I will never go on this path anymore until it is my or my family safety.

I was looking for something like GFSI - really appreciate it.

As for the Island, I know the pros, but I was thinking about smaller islands like Canari. Of course New Zealand is another ball game and I would not consider it as small island and I think they are self-sufficient.

As for Amazon Prime this is a metaphor, I mainly meant that online shopping is not a problem, like you mentioned on Canaris.

As for the Spain I sadly thought so about restrictions. I read all the previouse mentioned tread, and I was hoping this was not the case for Spain. Thanks for a reminder.

As for nuclear plants I have no problem with them but would not like to live with a 100 km range close to them - this is just a bonus if will happen I'm ok but as far as possible will be an extra point for location

As for my pessimistic approach I'm maybe little more pragmatic those days even if Im in my mid 30s. I paid so large amount of taxes in my life, working so hard, and now even if I try to preserve my wealth, it is job of itself, that frustrates me. And I'm little done to pay taxes for all those lazy people out there...

I will be honest that I tried to do some research but I work on my current company, growing a new brand from scratch, selling some of my real estate, work on wealth preservation, and sorry, I will honestly admit that I did not have time to do a ton of research those days. Especially now. So I was hoping for some answers, and even just yours helped a lot and saved me a lot of time. If we left everything to google, the forum would have no sense. Don't you think? Especially since I'm looking for a view of people from a different class than the average google user, and I know this forum is a good place. And with the current situation and dynamics, I think a lot of views have changed.

Really appreciate it MFT. Thank you!

 

[Chapas]

It's almost impossible to find a place that ticks off all the boxes. I have had the same issue (probably why I have lived in 9 countries now haha).

I happened to fall in love with our 9th country though, and I hope that we can stay here for the long term. The only thing about it I do not like is again the Covid compliance rate. Probably the highest vaccination rate in Europe, and like MTF writes, it is so weird watching people driving alone in cars with masks on or walking their dogs on a completely empty beach with a mask on.

Nevertheless, after being here for 4 months, Portugal feels like home for me. I honestly love everything about it. Even the sometimes slow service and inefficient bureacracy. The people here are probably the best thing about the country. They are more quiet than the rest of the Southern Europeans, and a bit less outgoing. But they compensate that with being more genuine. I look like a massive tourist and not a single time has anyone tried to scam me or squeeze some extra cash out of me. Honest, friendly and family-oriented people. Which might also be one of the reasons for their high Covid compliance.

Sometimes being in Portugal feels like I arrived 20 years back in time. Where life was more simple and much happier. Having spent most of my life in Scandinavia, this is a totally different world. The pace is much slower, and even though people here earn less and work more, they are still much happier.

The country is so underrated. It is beautiful and full of history. So many amazing places to go for a daytrip or a weekend. It is on the edge of Europe, so it is kind of forgotten. Unless Spain wants to conquer Portugal someday, I don't see a war happening here.

Living in Sweden for the last years, I have been slowly experiencing how Sweden is losing it's culture. It is basically not Sweden anymore. I am an immigrant and refugee myself (30 years ago), so I understand people's desire to search for a better life. But Sweden will soon be in a situation that it cannot control or reverse - which is also one of the reasons we moved from there to Portugal. I want my kids to grow up in a safe environment - and Sweden will not be able to provide that in 5-years time.

As mentioned before, Portugal is on the edge of Europe. They will not have the problems that Sweden has. No refugee wants to come here. Everybody wants to go where the money is; Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, UK etc. Those who made it to Portugal are hard-working people - well-knowing that the government will not provide for them at any point. I honestly feel safer in Portugal than in Sweden or Denmark, and my wife feels the same.

And again - nothing against refugees. I was one myself. But Scandinavia and Western Europe is very polarized and the culture difference is starting to show a bad trend. And I do not see it getting better.

This was a bit of a freestyle, and probably not the best advice I could give you. But if anyone is looking for the good old lifestyle of 10-20 years ago, honest and friendly people, beautiful nature and cities, good and fresh food and the feeling of safety, then I can highly recommend Portugal. Just hope that they don't go bonkers with new restrictions when the new variant arrives after the summer!

Oh btw. They have some great islands here. Madeira and the Azores. Madeira should be a cool place to live. Azores are having some issues with volcanoes at the moment, but also a possibility if you are looking for island life.

 

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[OneManWolfPack]

@Chapas This is what I was exactly looking for. Thank you for your input.

I know it will be hard to tick all the boxes but I would like to tick as much as I can. Some points are more important and some not. It is just good to pick location closes to perfect.

Honestly, I was thinking about Portugal as well, with all the reasons you mentioned. So mainly the low income, low life cost probably, lower than in other places. I'm not keen on wealthy countries as I do not search for a job. I can run my business from worldwide in most cases. Even if most operations are in one country, I can manage it from anywhere.

As for refugees, I feel the same as you. It is different when you have few expat(low percentage of the population) and a whole bunch of refugees just to save the economy from collapsing or for any other reasons they say.

Portugal was on my radar but I was affraid about their reaction to C19.

Do you think it is more challenging even than in Spain? Were jabs mandatory? The non-socialist approach is something nice to hear.

I always wanted to visit Madeira as a holiday travel, for living it would be worst for the reasons I mentioned. I think that continental Europe would be a better overal choice.

I deleted from my list USA for example, I visited a lot of states there and even if I like a lot about USA I do not think it is good place to live and It will be just worse when dollar will not be a reserve currency which with that USA current approach will accelerate even faster I thought in the past.

I would love to live in Dominican Republic but I think it is not so safe in real-life situations and it is an small island with a Haiti neighbor.

I heard a lot of good things about Mexico from the previous topic, but still, I do not feel good about Mexico and cartels, etc. I think that Europe is still better destination for next 20 years for sure. Especially Portugal/Spain region.

My only concern about Spain is their politics which was learned by MTF and their C19 reaction. But we need to remember that any other country in future can change their reaction both ways. And I feel that C19 nightmare will come back sooner rather than later. But after you will buy house, settle down, restrictions may not be such a problem if you do not work in a normal job and you do most things from home.

I liked Malaga as there is a lot of expats and I think you can feel more normal as a "refugee" rather than in other regions. I like it is one of the cheapest regions in Spain but still good large airports, ferries, mountains, sea, good weather, good food, far from central Europe, looks relatively safe. Do I miss something? Would like to hear as much negative stuff as possible

Maybe any other good ideas?

@Chapas, which places did you not like? Maybe this will also help others not to pick those countries?

 

[MTF]

Oh btw. They have some great islands here. Madeira and the Azores. Madeira should be a cool place to live. Azores are having some issues with volcanoes at the moment, but also a possibility if you are looking for island life.

Madeira is cool. I was there for a week last year and really enjoyed it. It has its problems as well (takes months to get anything shipped from the continent or you pay 2-3x the price locally) but it's a nice place for a laidback lifestyle.

Portugal was on my radar but I was affraid about their reaction to C19.

Do you think it is more challenging even than in Spain? Were jabs mandatory? The non-socialist approach is something nice to hear.

Portugal is the same as Spain, if not maybe even worse as southern Spain was a bit more lax in their approach.

Socialism is very common in Portugal. They just can't afford to give that much stuff to people but socialism is completely normal in Portugal to the point you have "headquarters" (or whatever it's called) of young socialists in many places.

I always wanted to visit Madeira as a holiday travel, for living it would be worst for the reasons I mentioned. I think that continental Europe would be a better overal choice.

For ease of living the continent is better. For climate, continental Europe isn't that great.

I would love to live in Dominican Republic but I think it is not so safe in real-life situations and it is an small island with a Haiti neighbor.

Yep not super safe. There are safer areas (Cabarete or Las Terrenas) but overall it's not the safest place around.

I heard a lot of good things about Mexico from the previous topic, but still, I do not feel good about Mexico and cartels, etc. I think that Europe is still better destination for next 20 years for sure. Especially Portugal/Spain region.

Some areas of Mexico can be very safe (like Mérida in Yucatán) but overall the country safety-wise is incomparable to Europe.

But I don't agree that Portugal/Spain are better destinations for the next 20 years. Economically, they're so F*cked I can't imagine a bright future for them anytime soon unless they completely change their approach to taxes.

Perhaps for retirement these countries are okay but one can't forget that if young people can't find a good job (which is what's happening to like 50%+ of young people in Portugal and Spain), the country is going to have a terrible future as most of them will leave, turn to crime, or waste their skills working a menial job.

 

[Chapas]

@Chapas This is what I was exactly looking for. Thank you for your input.

I know it will be hard to tick all the boxes but I would like to tick as much as I can. Some points are more important and some not. It is just good to pick location closes to perfect.

Honestly, I was thinking about Portugal as well, with all the reasons you mentioned. So mainly the low income, low life cost probably, lower than in other places. I'm not keen on wealthy countries as I do not search for a job. I can run my business from worldwide in most cases. Even if most operations are in one country, I can manage it from anywhere.

As for refugees, I feel the same as you. It is different when you have few expat(low percentage of the population) and a whole bunch of refugees just to save the economy from collapsing or for any other reasons they say.

Portugal was on my radar but I was affraid about their reaction to C19.

Do you think it is more challenging even than in Spain? Were jabs mandatory? The non-socialist approach is something nice to hear.

I always wanted to visit Madeira as a holiday travel, for living it would be worst for the reasons I mentioned. I think that continental Europe would be a better overal choice.

I deleted from my list USA for example, I visited a lot of states there and even if I like a lot about USA I do not think it is good place to live and It will be just worse when dollar will not be a reserve currency which with that USA current approach will accelerate even faster I thought in the past.

I would love to live in Dominican Republic but I think it is not so safe in real-life situations and it is an small island with a Haiti neighbor.

I heard a lot of good things about Mexico from the previous topic, but still, I do not feel good about Mexico and cartels, etc. I think that Europe is still better destination for next 20 years for sure. Especially Portugal/Spain region.

My only concern about Spain is their politics which was learned by MTF and their C19 reaction. But we need to remember that any other country in future can change their reaction both ways. And I feel that C19 nightmare will come back sooner rather than later. But after you will buy house, settle down, restrictions may not be such a problem if you do not work in a normal job and you do most things from home.

I liked Malaga as there is a lot of expats and I think you can feel more normal as a "refugee" rather than in other regions. I like it is one of the cheapest regions in Spain but still good large airports, ferries, mountains, sea, good weather, good food, far from central Europe, looks relatively safe. Do I miss something? Would like to hear as much negative stuff as possible

Maybe any other good ideas?

@Chapas, which places did you not like? Maybe this will also help others not to pick those countries?

Glad I could help a bit

And yes. Honestly, I feel bad about blaming refugees. Better to blame governments. Sweden took in 1 million refugees from Afghanistan, Syria etc. in just the last 4 years. That's 10 % of the population. What do you expect from there?

Denmark took in a lot of refugees in the 70's and 80's from Turkey and other countries. But there was a plan there. People got work, they integrated. All worked out well (mostly). But when you take in 1 million people without a plan for them - it is doomed. You cannot just put 1 million people on welfare and move them to the suburbs of the cities. Of course shit will go down if you don't integrate them. So everyone is at fault here.

Can't really compare with Spain. My friend lives in Barcelona. She says they can go to clubs as normal, but to go to gym's they have to wear masks while training. That sounds so messed up.

No mandatory jabs. I remember Portugal actually being one of the countries against mandatory jabs and jabs for kids. Unlike Denmark, who did everything possibly to promote jabs for kids. Disgusting.

Honestly mate, I always liked the placed I lived. Have nothing bad to say about them. All had their ups and downs. The world changes so quickly these days that my advice for those countries will already be outdated. Amongst the countries are the US, Russia and Denmark, but they have all changed so much since I lived there (probably all to the worse lol). But while I lived there I loved it. People were amazing, and probably still are. Politics are the root of all evil.

Any questions you have, please ask. Loved the last edition of this thread, so happy you started a new!

 

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[Chapas]

Madeira is cool. I was there for a week last year and really enjoyed it. It has its problems as well (takes months to get anything shipped from the continent or you pay 2-3x the price locally) but it's a nice place for a laidback lifestyle.

We plan to go there for a week or two in the summer. Would appreciate any hidden tips!

 

[Jeannen]

I moved to Indonesia, last year
A full tank on a scooter is $4, you can eat for $5-10/meal using the local Uber eat, or $2-3 in cheap restaurants.
You can rent a studio for $200-$700 depending on the comfort level you're looking for and the location. The weather is hot, often sunny.
It's a growing country (GDP is +5%/year) and pretty sure there are lots of opportunities if you look around.
People are incredibly welcoming and way more respectful compared to Europe. I'm getting my residency permit this month normally

Best decision I've made.

 

[Chapas]

I moved to Indonesia, last year
A full tank on a scooter is $4, you can eat for $5-10/meal using the local Uber eat, or $2-3 in cheap restaurants.
You can rent a studio for $200-$700 depending on the comfort level you're looking for and the location. The weather is hot, often sunny.
It's a growing country (GDP is +5%/year) and pretty sure there are lots of opportunities if you look around.
People are incredibly welcoming and way more respectful compared to Europe. I'm getting my residency permit this month normally

Best decision I've made.

Always heard great things about Indonesia. How do you see their future the next 5-10 years? Did you move to Bali?

How easy is the process of getting a residency permit? And how is their approach to Covid and vaccination? And how about taxes? Sorry for the many questions. Just curious about Indonesia.

 

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[MTF]

We plan to go there for a week or two in the summer. Would appreciate any hidden tips!

Not sure if I can offer any super secret tips.

Location:

Stay by the coast. The mountains get chilly and are usually cloudy. The best area for surfing is around Porto da Cruz (Praia da Maiata). If you don't surf, stay somewhere between Machico and Funchal for easy access to most stuff on the island.

Do eat bolo do caco (Madeiran flatbread). Visit Seixal for some really awesome tropical-like coastal views. Definitely rent a car or you'll miss a lot of the fun. Drive across the entire island to see its variety.

I wish I could give you a list of the best viewpoints on the island but the truth is that most of them are awesome, particularly in the mountains.

There's a "hidden" (not popular, unlikely you'll meet anyone there) but incredibly awesome viewpoint over the eastern part of the island called Viewpoint Calhau da Furna do Bode (from the parking lot/road you have to walk for a couple of minutes through some rocky/dusty terrain to get there). That's the view:

 

[Deleted70138]

Through my research and some thinking I've found out, that the best country to live is New Zealand.
Why?

• Least affected by a possible nuclear war
• Somewhat of a perfect climate (North island - vineyards, south island - ski resorts)
• No extreme ideologies
• Ease of doing business
• Historically stable economy & currency
• Self-sustaining agriculture
• High level of economic development

Change my mind!

 

[OneManWolfPack]

A lot of great input here.

@Chapas The old thread was also great for me, so I'm happy that we start something fresh here. Especially since and from the intentions of the previous topic so many things have changed from the beginning of this original thread. I honestly started to read this forum only because of this thread as I realized that there are more people like me in the world. The idea of a private country mentioned in the middle of this thread was my dream for several years. I even started to think how many wealthy people we would need to buy some small country to create a living. I realized that it would be probably cheaper to win an election in one of those, but this could end up in civil unrest as most of the people would not like the rules of the entrepreneurs who want to work as most people think that money is miraculously made by governments from thin air(or money printers as they really are now), so they do not need to do a lot. What this lead to we see now. Honestly I did not even read TMF MJ book till last year. I read it mainly from curiosity(Horrible title stopped me from reading it for years) and even if I do not agree with everything MJ says but agree with a lot. I respect him for what he is doing, and I have a similar approach to life/work in many situations. We think the same way in many applications; just my "Fastlane" way started when I was a kid.

I do not have much time to write on forums like this or any others, but if some topic is critical, I start a topic, which is rare for me.

I understand you with liking the country you live in. I accommodate fast wherever I go as well. For me as I try to be as much self-reliant as I can, so I try to be as less reliant on people as possible. Those days you can outsource so many things that it is a paradise to live "off-grid" away of people, which in C19 situations is quite a great option.

@MTF as for Spain I look at it only the way that I hope it will not collapse totally in the next 20 years. I share your concerns about everything you said.

In my look at the location, I do not look at those things:

• Ease of finding a job - I do not plan to work in that country
• Ease to run business there - I want to continue my current business and I can do it remote
• I do not care about rent cost, I want to buy a finished home there, maybe more about cadastral tax if I would like to buy more than one property in the future

@Zaratustra I like your points about NZ. My only drawback of NZ? Real estate cost what I saw from just a brief look? RE looks really expensive there but I just checked few homes.

Do not get me wrong; I'm not so kind of a billionaire or even a well-established millionaire. I can afford a decent home abroard. I just would not like to liquid too much cash if necessary in this home as I would instead like to spend money to grow my new business idea right now, which will bring more profits in future I think rather than spending all those money in one Real Estate. Especially I'm not sure if I will even like new place 100%. I also do not want to waste time renting a home first, as inflation is so high right now that keeping money in the accounts each month is risky as it has ever been before. Of course, it is good to have some cash on hand if some collapse occurs, as opportunities will show, but I think that hard assets are king in those hard times. I want to buy something but If it is not necessary, I will not even move there but I want to have option "B" ready to go in a blink of an eye if I will be "done" with my current location.

 

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[MTF]

Through my research and some thinking I've found out, that the best country to live is New Zealand.
Why?

• Least affected by a possible nuclear war
• Somewhat of a perfect climate (North island - vineyards, south island - ski resorts)
• No extreme ideologies
• Ease of doing business
• Historically stable economy & currency
• Self-sustaining agriculture
• High level of economic development

Change my mind!

I've never been there but from what I've read/heard (which may be wrong), here are some potential minuses:

• very woke,
• socialism is cool,
• masculinity is bad,
• super far away from everything else so not much easy traveling,
• because of the above, some people may be close-minded,
• as in southern Europe, at least in the warmer parts of New Zealand buildings are of bad quality and they can get very cold during the winter,
• can be cold and cloudy (even the warmest and sunniest places in New Zealand aren't that sunny),
• xenophobic (foreigners can't buy property in New Zealand).

I'll definitely visit New Zealand one day as I'm curious what it's like on the ground. For me the climate makes it a no-no. But as a potential apocalyptic bolthole, it's definitely hard to find a better place though I'd rather live in a place that never requires heating (as staying warm is a big survival challenge without modern conveniences).

 

[Mammoth]

I've never been there but from what I've read/heard (which may be wrong), here are some potential minuses:

• very woke,
• socialism is cool,
• masculinity is bad,
• super far away from everything else so not much easy traveling,
• because of the above, some people may be close-minded,
• as in southern Europe, at least in the warmer parts of New Zealand buildings are of bad quality and they can get very cold during the winter,
• can be cold and cloudy (even the warmest and sunniest places in New Zealand aren't that sunny),
• xenophobic (foreigners can't buy property in New Zealand).

I'll definitely visit New Zealand one day as I'm curious what it's like on the ground. For me the climate makes it a no-no. But as a potential apocalyptic bolthole, it's definitely hard to find a better place though I'd rather live in a place that never requires heating (as staying warm is a big survival challenge without modern conveniences).

I lived there for a year a while back. You're pretty much spot on about everything.
Biggest electricity bill I've ever had was being there in the winter.
Beautiful place to visit. I doubt I'd move there again though.

 

[Jeannen]

Always heard great things about Indonesia. How do you see their future the next 5-10 years? Did you move to Bali?

How easy is the process of getting a residency permit? And how is their approach to Covid and vaccination? And how about taxes? Sorry for the many questions. Just curious about Indonesia.

I don't know if I'll stay there, but for the next 2 years I definitely see myself living there

For the residency permit, it's actually very easy if you put some $ on an Investor Visa.

For vaccination/covid, you need the vaccine to enter, but there are no real restrictions inside, only wear the mask while driving, and some malls require you to show the certificate. Other than that, it's pretty open

For taxes, the best is of course to consult a specialist, but they have a very attractive tax bracket for new companies (something like 1% for the first 3 years). Personal income is from 10% to 30%, but you don't need much to live there

 

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[OneManWolfPack]

One more thing guys. Do you think there is a list of countries which had the most normal approach to C19 anywhere in the web? No mandatory jabs, etc.? I think there should be a list of shame for all those stupid countries with all restrictions as well.

 

[MTF]

One more thing guys. Do you think there is a list of countries which had the most normal approach to C19 anywhere in the web? No mandatory jabs, etc.? I think there should be a list of shame for all those stupid countries with all restrictions as well.

The most sensible was Sweden. Even the countries supposedly without any restrictions still went crazy with something, like Mexico with masks. To my knowledge, to this day they go crazy with masks as well as with hand sanitizer (ask @GPM).

I don't think it's a useful criteria to compare C19 approach because pretty much the entire world went crazy. The only useful thing may be to get anecdotal evidence regarding how obedient people were (and not what the official rules were).

For example, both in Poland and in Spain masks were mandatory but in Poland, for pretty much the entire pandemic, many people wore them under their noses (me included) and nobody cared. In Spain, that wouldn't work at all (it took literally seconds to get called out). In Poland, many people even skipped masks in certain places (like gas stations) and nobody cared, either.

In theory, same rules. In practice, Poland was MUCH freer than Spain. And today in everyday life since the end of March there's pretty much zero restrictions (masks are required in healthcare centers and pharmacies but people don't care) and it's back to normal while in Spain people still have to wear masks in public transportation (and I'm pretty sure that a large percentage of population still wears them everywhere even though they don't have to).

 

[MitchC]

So I just want to share my experiences as there’s a few misconceptions in this thread.

1. I grew up in New Zealand, I would never move back. I think someone above nailed all the points, the people are closed minded, it’s cold most of the year, and the housing is rubbish. Not to mention the cost of living is insanely high and everyone is generally so poor, it’s no fun there no one can afford to do anything.

A few things that were missed, they also went full covid nazi but due to closed borders and having 0 cases were able to live in relative freedom during the bulk of it. Problem was when there was a case they had to get back to 0 which meant insane restrictions. Also they went big on vax mandates and the population embraced it like crazy, there was no public opposition to this lunacy. They’re super woke and absolute sheep, which was mentioned above.

2. I’ve lived in Australia for 9 years now.

Yes there was a lot of news articles about Australia going full covid nazi, however it was mainly 1 particular state with a particularly corrupt woke CCP despot of a leader.

Also the protests were a sign of the peoples views. The people here stood up and faught, which I liked. It started as a small minority but despite what the media shows turned into massive peaceful protests, hundred of thousands of people and they were every week. Nz took it lying down and encouraged it.

The state I live in closed it borders and had 0 cases for most of the time which meant limited restrictions. The people also generally hated the restrictions, I didn’t wear a mask the entire time and noone even looked twice at me. We have a left wing state govt but other than that I’d compare our state to Florida.

I believe it was the only state to have no statewide vax mandates for jobs. The vax passport was super easy to fake for restaurants and aside from no one ever checking them anyway I think it was only in place a few months.

All restrictions in aus are lifting now, although it’s election time in a month and I think the left wing party will win so that could be a huge problem after the election.

Other than that aus has:
Amazing people, super chill, so friendly
Money, the country is rich, everyone has money
Weather and beaches, amazing, year round
Super good infrastructure, everything is just nice, all the public areas, there’s walkways, parks, outdoor public gym equipment etc
Good food, I imagine we are very food independent too. Grass fed beef is just normal here, not like USA.

Yeah you could live in Bali or something and have good weather but man I hate to say it those places are dirty and a lot of things just really annoy you while you are there, the infrastructure is terrible.

I guess my main point is saying you won’t move to aus because of covid, while I can agree and I see the point, is like saying you won’t move to Florida or anywhere in USA because of California.

Also, if you think Nz is good but won’t move to aus because of covid then that’s dumb too, nz were the biggest covid nazis and their prime minister is the most woke WEF young leader there is.

 

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[MTF]

1. I grew up in New Zealand, I would never move back. I think someone above nailed all the points, the people are closed minded, it’s cold most of the year, and the housing is rubbish. Not to mention the cost of living is insanely high and everyone is generally so poor, it’s no fun there no one can afford to do anything.

That's funny that I got all of this right just from reading a bit about it.

The state I live in closed it borders and had 0 cases for most of the time which meant limited restrictions. The people also generally hated the restrictions, I didn’t wear a mask the entire time and noone even looked twice at me. We have a left wing state govt but other than that I’d compare our state to Florida.

Is it Queensland?

Other than that aus has:
Amazing people, super chill, so friendly
Money, the country is rich, everyone has money
Weather and beaches, amazing, year round
Super good infrastructure, everything is just nice, all the public areas, there’s walkways, parks, outdoor public gym equipment etc
Good food, I imagine we are very food independent too. Grass fed beef is just normal here, not like USA.

I agree with all of that 100%. That was my perception during my trips to the Sunshine Coast/Noosa area. I felt super comfortable because everything was clean, people were extremely friendly and laid-back, there were no homeless or poor people and in general it felt like a "proper" first world country (can't say the same about the places I visited in the US).

C19 changed my perception of Australia but you're right that we shouldn't judge one region by the entire country.

Yeah you could live in Bali or something and have good weather but man I hate to say it those places are dirty and a lot of things just really annoy you while you are there, the infrastructure is terrible.

100%. Right now my two top choices for a second home are Australia (Queensland) and Barbados. Barbados has a much better year round climate but it comes with many drawbacks of living on a tiny island that has to import everything and that has some issues more developed countries don't have (like poor education and crime).

 

[MitchC]

100%. Right now my two top choices for a second home are Australia (Queensland) and Barbados. Barbados has a much better year round climate but it comes with many drawbacks of living on a tiny island that has to import everything and that has some issues more developed countries don't have (like poor education and crime).

I live on the Sunshine Coast. Noosa was the best during covid, those people do not give a F*ck, I love it.

I'm not sure what Barbados climate is like but it's pretty good here, if you want it hotter year round you can go further north in Queensland, I lived up further for years and it's tropical there, if you go too far it gets way too hot, but being around the middle where I was was perfect. Sunshine Coast is south Queensland.

Thinking towards the future, the next crisis, it's going to be food shortages and continuing supply chain issues. The last thing I would do is move somewhere that has to import food. Add crime to that and you're asking for trouble. Surrounded by hungry people on an island who enjoy a bit of crime, and you are foreign, no thanks.

It sounds like I'm pushing Aus pretty hard but I'm actually not, I'm just sharing my experiences and some misconceptions. I'm actually hoping someone suggests something perfect, good food supply, decent infrastructure, good weather, relaxed and affordable life. There would for sure be some relatively unknown gems around the world.

Certain places in Vietnam maybe? I found it far more developed than Bali but still just as beautiful and with nice people and good weather. I'm sure their food supply is on point they have rice and farms everywhere. Maybe I'm being too hard on Bali I love going there, but after 3 weeks I'm ready to walk on a flat pavement without open gutters, drink tap water, drive a car on a highway and shit in a regular toilet.

 

[GPM]

Also, if you think Nz is good but won’t move to aus because of covid then that’s dumb too, nz were the biggest covid nazis and their prime minister is the most woke WEF young leader there is.

Her and Justin Castro could Duke it out to see who is better at giving ol' Klaus their heils.

Mexico is mask crazy. I feel like it is easing up though now. Most people still mask up in their cars and scooters, but I never wear one when going to a restaurant or anything anymore. Just at big box stores will I wear one. Still hand sanitizer crazy though. My daughter now refuses it and says "I don't want that poison on my hands dad". Which is both good and bad. Hand sanitizer has its use and it's time, however dousing in random stuff of questionable quality at every opportunity is not a good idea.

 

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[MitchC]

Her and Justin Castro could Duke it out to see who is better at giving ol' Klaus their heils.

Mexico is mask crazy. I feel like it is easing up though now. Most people still mask up in their cars and scooters, but I never wear one when going to a restaurant or anything anymore. Just at big box stores will I wear one. Still hand sanitizer crazy though. My daughter now refuses it and says "I don't want that poison on my hands dad". Which is both good and bad. Hand sanitizer has its use and it's time, however dousing in random stuff of questionable quality at every opportunity is not a good idea.

I was going to compare it to Canada actually. Shit weather. The Chinese have driven house prices to total unaffordability. And a communist Klaus Schwab puppet dictator running it. Difference is everyone’s asleep and loves her, only a couple of small protests and everyone I know there spoke out against them.

Bali is handing out $100 fines for no mask at the moment too. People love going to these 3rd world supposedly free places but they forget to mention the downsides of having corrupt police and governments and an uneducated population.

 

[MTF]

I'm not sure what Barbados climate is like but it's pretty good here, if you want it hotter year round you can go further north in Queensland, I lived up further for years and it's tropical there, if you go too far it gets way too hot, but being around the middle where I was was perfect. Sunshine Coast is south Queensland.

For me further north is out of the question as you can't surf there plus as far as I know the ocean and wildlife gets more dangerous.

As for the climate compared to Barbados, while roughly between October-April Sunshine Coast is glorious, the rest of the year is way colder than in Barbados. In Barbados, the temperatures almost never, even at night, drop below 23 degrees Celsius and during the day they're around 30 degrees year round.

The ocean temperature in Barbados is always at minimum 27 degrees (and goes up to 30-31) while in Sunshine Coast in winter it can drop to 20 degrees which requires a wetsuit (which I hate wearing).

If I were to live there between October-May that wouldn't be a big deal for me, though.

Thinking towards the future, the next crisis, it's going to be food shortages and continuing supply chain issues. The last thing I would do is move somewhere that has to import food. Add crime to that and you're asking for trouble. Surrounded by hungry people on an island who enjoy a bit of crime, and you are foreign, no thanks.

Yeah I agree with that. I lived in Barbados for 5 months which happened to be the first 5 months of the pandemic. Thankfully everyone was friendly and we had zero issues despite being white in a country with 90%+ black people (so sticking out a lot).

But I can't say I wasn't super worried the first few weeks and had trouble sleeping. Most people rely on tourism there so their sources of income disappeared overnight.

As for crime there, it's mostly in-family fights, men killing other men because of women, drug addicts, or gang-related crime. All of which very rarely happen in developed, safe countries (I don't consider the US so safe; I'm thinking more Europe).

Certain places in Vietnam maybe? I found it far more developed than Bali but still just as beautiful and with nice people and good weather.

You're always a foreigner in most of Asia. This is why I rule it out even as a second residence. I hate being treated like a tourist, particularly with no hopes of ever being accepted as a local.

 

[Mammoth]

One more thing guys. Do you think there is a list of countries which had the most normal approach to C19 anywhere in the web? No mandatory jabs, etc.? I think there should be a list of shame for all those stupid countries with all restrictions as well.

Countries Without Any Travel Restrictions Or Entry Requirements

These Countries Have Removed Mask Mandates For Travelers

This site is updated pretty frequently. At one point the only country on the first list was Mexico, but I've slowly watched the list grow.

 

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[MitchC]

For me further north is out of the question as you can't surf there plus as far as I know the ocean and wildlife gets more dangerous.

As for the climate compared to Barbados, while roughly between October-April Sunshine Coast is glorious, the rest of the year is way colder than in Barbados. In Barbados, the temperatures almost never, even at night, drop below 23 degrees Celsius and during the day they're around 30 degrees year round.

The ocean temperature in Barbados is always at minimum 27 degrees (and goes up to 30-31) while in Sunshine Coast in winter it can drop to 20 degrees which requires a wetsuit (which I hate wearing).

If I were to live there between October-May that wouldn't be a big deal for me, though.



Yeah I agree with that. I lived in Barbados for 5 months which happened to be the first 5 months of the pandemic. Thankfully everyone was friendly and we had zero issues despite being white in a country with 90%+ black people (so sticking out a lot).

But I can't say I wasn't super worried the first few weeks and had trouble sleeping. Most people rely on tourism there so their sources of income disappeared overnight.

As for crime there, it's mostly in-family fights, men killing other men because of women, drug addicts, or gang-related crime. All of which very rarely happen in developed, safe countries (I don't consider the US so safe; I'm thinking more Europe).



You're always a foreigner in most of Asia. This is why I rule it out even as a second residence. I hate being treated like a tourist, particularly with no hopes of ever being accepted as a local.

Sorry yeah that’s a very accurate assessment, I never surfed so it didn’t bother me, but not being able to swim in the beaches sucked when the weather was good every day. Locals did but I was too scared of the wildlife. Plus the cities are smaller which makes it even more boring.

Barbados sounds nice from that description, were they still importing all their food during that period? I think when the tourism dried up in Bali they all quite quickly would have gone back to the old way of life and living off the land. Although I did hear stories of food shortages and locals struggling to afford food.

Yeah that’s right if you went to Asia you’d have to go somewhere with a strong community of foreigners. The Vietnamese are much nicer and I think they have their own lives and industries so it isn’t as bad but in Bali you just get treated like an ATM which gets old very quickly.

 

[MTF]

Barbados sounds nice from that description, were they still importing all their food during that period? I think when the tourism dried up in Bali they all quite quickly would have gone back to the old way of life and living off the land. Although I did hear stories of food shortages and locals struggling to afford food.

Yeah they were still importing most of the food (and it's incredibly expensive). They started some government programs to grow more food on the island but as far as I know they're back to what it was before and haven't learned their lesson.

That's a huge problem on many Caribbean islands but I guess also in many places like Bali where it's more lucrative to live off tourism than grow food. And we all know what happens sooner or later when you depend only on one source of income.

 

[Jeannen]

Bali is handing out $100 fines for no mask at the moment too.

Only on scooters though, in the street nobody wears a mask

 

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[Jeannen]

That's a huge problem on many Caribbean islands but I guess also in many places like Bali where it's more lucrative to live off tourism than grow food. And we all know what happens sooner or later when you depend only on one source of income.

Bali got hit hard during the pandemic (right when I arrived) so everything was cheaper, but the criminality didn't increase that much tho. Also, with all the rice field and stuff, they don't need that much importing in case of emergency

But yeah, still agree that it's dangerous to rely on only one income source

 

[MitchC]

Only on scooters though, in the street nobody wears a mask

That might just be my new favourite covid restriction. I would love to see the science behind that.