Fed Up With Your Country? Where Is Left to Go?

[MJ DeMarco]

I feel like everyone I speak to wants to leave their home country lol.

Slim pickings to pick from...

Tyranny everywhere.

I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time high and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Who appreciates entrepreneurs and job providers?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

I'm betting the objective is to turn vaxinated citizens against the unvacinnated, transferring the blame of lockdowns from the politicians to citizens who want nothing to do with a rushed vaccine.

The media will convince the sheep that the lockdowns are to blame on the "anti-vaxxers," not politicians.

What's going on in the world is like watching a low-IQ prime time movie on NBC, except it is real.

 

[Fox]

Out of these, @Fox can talk about Ireland but as far as I know he doesn't think the country is heading in the right direction.

Just did a week in Ireland and apart from seeing my family it was fairly depressing.

When I was younger Ireland seemed amazing and now it just seems like a place with a million different rules and a government that will tax/fine/ban/restrict you at every move.

Here is a photo I took last week that sums it all up...



Over the last year a lot of countries showed their true colors and Ireland for sure showed theirs. They had Europes worst lockdown and a zero-IQ approach towards dealing with things. They just locked everything down, took out massive debt, and went into "look how safe I can be" virtue signalling.

When I went back last week they still had a ban on indoor dining. They are the ONLY country in Europe doing this.

For me I can't live there - I just can't trust the government with my life and freedom.
Ireland has some of the best people, food, and scenery possible but as a country it is just driving off a cliff.

On the other hand living in Poland has been amazing. No one bothers me about anything, everyone is super friendly, the place just feels free and happy, and they have great positive values and work ethic.

Even making this post is depressing so I will leave it at that.

In short if you are thinking Europe then go EAST - Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Georgia, Russia, Serbia etc. All of these countries will do well as the West of Europe hits the wall over the next 5-10 years.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

A country can survive bad politicians, but it cannot survive the legion of idiots who continue to vote them in.

When government proxies control the media, you control the lemmings.

At this point, if Facebook or CNN told the populace to stay home forever because it would help "the children", the majority wouldn't question it. And if you didn't comply, you'd be branded an "X" (enter some derogatory label here).

 

[Kak]

Yea, I'm serious. So I guess we should just all run away? And eventually deal with a similar fate wherever you go? I'm not sure this is something that can be outrun, longterm. Like I said, I share the same concerns as most about this country. Whats going on here sickens me. It just doesnt feel right to me to promote a run away mentality. If it sucks here so bad, why do most try to come here?

You know what, my question of why dont we pull together as a people was quickly answer on this forum today.


You're re-stating my own premise..I'm well aware of what why and how the protests happened in the past year or so. The point is we need to figure out how to organize, peacefully, to get our freedoms back.

I used to be there man and I can fully sympathize.

Believe it or not, I was the most patriotic guy I knew. I LOVED America and the principles it used to stand for. Key phrase, used to.

Today? I feel betrayed by the place I used to love. We are on a seriously self destructive path and voting harder isn’t going to fix it. Now I’m starting to see this place for what it is… Mediocrity. Expensive mediocrity, propped up by propaganda that sells us a bill of goods that we no longer have.

Think about the propaganda machine in China. The Chinese are all programmed to believe that China is the best country in earth. Russia. Hell, probably even Canada. America does the exact same thing, perhaps even more so. The programming wore off of me.

My life, and the prosperity of my family and future generations is worth more to me than the country I was born in. Physically fighting people that literally don’t want a better life, or even slogging through a life of government imposed hardship to hopefully “save America” isn’t my idea of leaving a legacy.

When I do leave, I will wish you the absolute best in your fight, but my fight is business and doing things that directly impact my family’s future.

I recently decided to look at my Ancestory.com family tree. On my mom’s side they came over from Italy in the late 1800s. On my dad’s side from Ireland in the mid 1800s. Can you imagine the sacrifices they made? They would likely never see family they left behind ever again. They literally sacrificed everything for a better life in America. They would be so pissed off if they saw what America has become.

I don’t have to sacrifice 10% of they did for the future of my family.

Ask yourself what America stands for now, because we don’t have a constitution, a bill of rights, or founding principles anymore. They may be memorialized, but they certainly aren’t upheld.

To answer your question about why the many are controlled by the few… It is because you are a minority. Someone that wants to build. The majority wants to take, not make. The USA has government problem because it has a people problem. With this said, freedoms won’t come back.

 

[StrikingViper69]

The above three posts make the most civil disagreement the internet has ever witnessed.

 

[MTF]

@Timmy C, the way I see it you have two rational options:

1. Tune out and move on with your life. There's no way to win this and the personal cost is way too high. All the stress, peace of mind, and time you've lost being angry at it cost you way, way more than you'd ever want to give these people. You could have spent these resources making more money to ensure more personal freedom in the future.

2. Move elsewhere (whether in Australia or abroad if you can) where the environment is more conducive to peace of mind and less populated with people who constantly ruin your life talking about it, or worse, condoning it.

The option that doesn't work is resisting and spending so much mental energy on it. The lawsuit isn't going to change anything. There have been countless similar initiatives worldwide—protests, lawsuits, respected scientists speaking out—and they have never changed anything.

Perhaps it sounds cowardly but sometimes the only option you have is to figure out how to best live your life and let the world burn. Hence this thread suggesting places that offer better opportunities.

As a side note, starting next year, the country where I live will burden me with paying for the public healthcare of an ever-growing group of people whose only job is raising children (and collecting government assistance).

My flat tax rate of 19% will go up to 28% (a 50% increase). For context, a year before, they introduced a "solidarity" tax on "wealthy" people forcing them to pay an additional 4% for the disabled (as if the rich are to be blamed for it) and for the retirees (so that the government can give them an additional pension and secure their votes). I'm pretty sure that soon they'll come up with another ridiculous tax to tax productive people even more (while giving more to the non-earning people who vote for them).

I won't deny, I was f****** pissed off when I heard about it. But now I refuse to let them control my emotional state. I'll restructure my business in a way to pay the same amount, or ideally even less tax, whether it's going to be in my country or by taking it elsewhere.

Be like a boxer who gets hit in the face and instead of getting angry, gets sharper.

 

[GIlman]

@GIlman
Do you mind clarifying if you are taking the vaccine or not? Thanks.

I am 45, at this time I have elected not to take this particular vaccine. I based this on my lack of any underlying health conditions and age. If I was older and had some significant healh issues I would reconsider, and very well might have gotten the jab.

My kids 24 and 20 have not taken it either, but that is likewise a risk/benefit analysis.

In general I am not anti-vax at all. I have received a large number of vaccines over the years, because I have traveled all over the world and risked exposure to things many people haven’t. But those vaccines have undergone a very different testing than this one.

My personal belief with this vaccine, and all of medicine, is that everything is individual. You should consider the health and risk of the individual compared to the benefit and risk of the treatment. Then make a decision which risks you choose to make, treatment or no treatment. It’s not a one size fits all solution.

 

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[Kak]

I waste so much time arguing about politics, that I’m considering just running for office sooner than later.

It is discouraging and it seems like a person can do so little.

But, at risk of being super cheesy, the little things a person does can echo and change the world.

This goes with the internal locus of control.

I almost believe that the world is a self fulfilling prophecy. If we start saying “America is a free country”, perhaps it will be. And this goes for every country.

But at the very least...we can do our best. In small ways. Every day.

Maybe the right approach is to shoot the bird at them and walk away. I want to do it as bad as everyone here. But maybe that doesn’t really work either. Maybe you can leave while still trying to have a positive effect on the world.

I am not criticizing or taking a side, just suggesting some ideas and thoughts.

Also don’t discount the thought that some states could try to separate. It is a long shot, but could be a good way to save the good parts of the body from its rotting parts.

Here’s my issue with running… And you know I have considered it…

What do you want? What policies are you going to push for? It doesn’t matter what they are, but for me it’s taxation. The black hole of a government, that does nothing I actually want, getting half of the value I put in to the world, is modern day slavery, and every minute I spend working 6 months of the year to pay them, life gets further and further sucked out of me.

So I want no more than 4% income taxes and 0% capital gains. Perfectly defined.

So I have two options…

Run for office and “be the change I want.” So I run for Congress and spend tons of time, money, and effort to MAYBE win. Most don’t, and their journey ends here. Let’s just say I win. Now I am fighting my peers in Congress for my agenda in a zero sum game with other congressmen. Most don’t get what they want, but let’s just say, after the give and take, we temporarily lower the income tax rate 3 percent for 2 years, and raise sales tax for the privilege. I pat myself on the back for my “hard work” over the better part of a decade, and a “win” feels good. (This is seriously how it goes.)

A decade of working on something you have very little influence on, lowered the federal income tax rate to 34 percent from 37. Capital gains is left for another day. And sales tax is up a percent and a half. Are your problems with America now fixed? Nope.

or

I can put my belongings in a container, buy a plane ticket to Puerto Rico, and have the actual tax cut that I wanted all along, in a week.

One is so much deeper within my control it’s not even funny. Believing that through involvement in politics, I could actually change this place, was one of the most external locus beliefs I have ever held. It was just a different way to put my hopes and dreams of a better life in the government.

 

[GlobalWealth]

It's already pronounced to be mandatory in France for health care workers:

"Health Minister Olivier Veran said health workers would not be allowed to go to work and would not be paid if they are not vaxinated against C0VlD-19 by Sept. 15.

"By Sept. 15, all health workers must have had their second dose," he told LCI television, without explaining what sort of controls would be in place to impose the measure."

Surely, they won't be able to apply for unemployed benefits when fired due to vaccination refusal.

Step by step my worst nightmares are becoming reality.

If someone chooses to get vaxinated, that's there choice.

I take serious issue when it is mandatory and forced.

That violates every human rights law in the books.

 

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[GIlman]

2020/21 has opened my eyes to is how quickly population dynamics and areas can change. I actually feel like I as very naïve and overly trusting before 2020. Looking at different places to potentially have a second residence or backup, it feels like a dynamic situation where things anywhere can slip quickly into authoritarianism, which now seems to me to be human nature so long as the "right" set of conditions exists within the population of that area.

I'm sure many others have had a major shift of perspective of the world and the people it in. I ran across a series of quotes from a guy named Zuby, about things he learned (or had confirmed) in 2020/21. I have learned/confirmed many of these myself but he does a great job boiling them down and expressing them.

1) Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right.

2) At least 20% of the population has strong authoritarian tendencies, which will emerge under the right conditions.

3) Fear of death is only rivalled by the fear of social disapproval. The latter could be stronger.

4) Propaganda is just as effective in the modern day as it was 100 years ago. Access to limitless information has not made the average person any wiser.

5) Anything and everything can and will be politicized by the media, government, and those who trust them.

6) Many politicians and large corporations will gladly sacrifice human lives if it is conducive to their political and financial aspirations.

7) Most people believe the government acts in the best interests of the people. Even many who are vocal critics of the government.

8) Once they have made up their mind, most people would rather to commit to being wrong, than admit they were wrong.

9) Humans can be trained and conditioned quickly and relatively easily to significantly alter their behaviors - for better or worse.

10) When sufficiently frightened, most people will not only accept authoritarianism, but demand it.

11) People who are dismissed as 'conspiracy theorists' are often well researched and simply ahead of the mainstream narrative.

12) Most people value safety and security more than freedom and liberty, even if said 'safety' is merely an illusion.

13) Hedonic adaptation occurs in both directions, and once inertia sets in, it is difficult to get people back to 'normal'.

14) A significant % of people thoroughly enjoy being subjugated.

15) 'The Science' has evolved into a secular pseudo-religion for millions of people in the West. This religion has little to do with science itself.

16) Most people care more about looking like they are doing the right thing, rather than actually doing the right thing.

17) Politics, the media, science, and the healthcare industries are all corrupt, to varying degrees. Scientists and doctors can be bought as easily as politicians.

18) If you make people comfortable enough, they will not revolt. You can keep millions docile as you strip their rights, by giving them money, food, and entertainment.

19) Modern people are overly complacent and lack vigilance when it comes to defending their own freedoms from government overreach.

20) It's easier to fool a person than to convince them that they have been fooled.

21) Most people are fairly compassionate and have good intentions (this is good) As a result, most people deeply struggle to understand that some people, including our 'leaders', CAN have malicious or perverse intentions (this is bad).

 

[Timmy C]

 

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[MTF]

Another question worth discussing: HOW do you diversify yourself across different countries? I think we're past a world where you could have 100% of your life in one country.

As the recent months have shown, a country can turn into a complete shithole very, very fast. Or as they say, slowly, slowly, then all at once. So even if you're fed up with your country and move elsewhere, there's no guarantee it won't turn into another shitty place within the next few years.

So here are some ideas how to spread your life among many countries (brainstorming in no particular order):

• Own a business that is easy to incorporate elsewhere if needed. Offline businesses are terrible in this aspect. Meanwhile, I can move my publishing business virtually overnight.
• Own an international business. If you have clients in one country, you're at its mercy.
• Invest globally. The fact that you were born in a given country doesn't mean you need to invest all of your money there. Spread it geographically, ideally by investing in countries with different cultures, laws, sizes, economic development level, etc. So, for example, it's better to diversify between Lithuania, Moldova, Bulgaria, Mexico, Singapore, and Taiwan than invest in the US, Canada, Australia, Ireland, and the UK.
• If investing in just one market (most likely the US for most people here), choose multinational companies that can move to a friendlier jurisdiction if threatened by the government.
• Keep precious metals in safe for wealth protection (neutral) jurisdictions (Switzerland, Singapore).
• Network globally. If you have friends, associates, etc. only in one country, your social life will take a hit if you have to move. It's also a good idea to make international friends to be able to better understand other cultures, know how to adapt quickly, and know what's really going on in these other countries.
• Travel to test-drive new places. Don't stay in a hotel. Rent a place at Airbnb that is located in an area where locals live so you can experience what it's like to live there. Rent a car to learn what it's like to drive one in another place (unless you don't own a car in your main country). Buy in the local supermarkets and eat local food. Pretend you're a local.
• If you can afford it, build a "part-time" life in another country (or several) so that if you have to move, you already understand the local culture, laws, tips and tricks, know how to get around, have your favorite places (supermarkets, gyms, restaurants, etc.). Thanks to my travels, I now have a few places around the world where I could live comfortably right away because I spent there at least a couple of weeks, and sometimes months.
• Speak at least one major foreign language. The more, the better. I strongly suggest Spanish because it's the national language of 20 countries plus Puerto Rico and is useful in several other countries and territories. If you speak Spanish, because of its similarity to other languages, you'll also have a basic understanding of Portuguese and a little bit of Italian and French. French could be also useful though most of the 34 French-speaking countries are in Africa. Russian could be useful if you're into Eastern Europe. Arabic is spoken in many countries, too but each country has a different dialect that is often so different from another country's dialect that it's not really that useful internationally.
• If English is your second language, never settle for "good enough." People who don't speak English well are at a huge disadvantage.
• Gain second residency in another country or perhaps apply for a digital nomad visa just in case. I guess this is a little less important for EU citizens as you have easy access to many countries.
• Gain second citizenship. Easier said than done and if you can't get one via ancestry, the only realistic way to get it without moving elsewhere for a few years is to buy one (legally).
• Be a minimalist and have few obligations. The less stuff you have, the easier it is to be flexible and move.
• Be open to new cultures, cuisines, different ways of doing things, etc. The more adaptable you are, the easier it is to thrive in life.
• Be interested in what's going on in other countries, and particularly those you'd like to visit or where possibly you'd want to live full-time or at least part-time. It's never a bad idea to have at least a basic understanding of your target country's history, politics, culture, inner problems, challenges, geography, etc.
• Embrace cosmopolitanism. Whatever it is, your country is not the greatest country in the world. You owe it nothing. You're its citizen simply because you happened to be born on this piece of dirt at this moment in time. The world is what it is because of people from all countries, all cultures, and all beliefs working together. Nationalism is a disease.

I'll add more in another post if I think of anything else.

Any thoughts? Experiences? Plans you'd like to share on how you want to approach this?

 

[GIlman]

​

​

Dr. Pierre Kory testified to lawmakers in December about promising COVID treatment ivermectin​

Physician slams YouTube's 'extremely misguided' decision to pull Senate testimony about COVID treatment

Dr. Pierre Kory is speaking out after YouTube took drastic action by removing his recent Senate testimony that discussed a promising coronavirus treatment.

www.foxnews.com

This doctor spoke at a Senate hearing and got censored/removed from Youtube​

"The drug, which is used to treat tropical diseases caused by parasites, showed promising results in a study performed in Argentina last year. In the study, 788 healthcare workers received ivermectin, while another 407 did not. Not a single person who received ivermectin contracted C0VlD-19, while more than half of the group who did not receive ivermectin did contract the virus."



Ivermectin is very cheap and could be widely available, it could end the pandemic.

Yes, ivermectin is one of the therapeutics I was referring to in my last post. Here is the situation with ivermectin.

there have been several studies such as the one you referenced with the health care workers, that have shown high effectiveness to a very high statistical probability. There are many different studies that have also shown effectiveness.

There are also some studies where ivermectin was not effective, but like all things you have to look at the details. These studies that did not show therapeutic effect were in very sick like ICU patients. Here’s the thing though, with viruses, once the cat is completely out of the bag antivirals typically are not effective. We know this from past experience with drugs like tamiflu for flu.

The CDC and people that push against ivermectin say we need a large randomized controlled trial as if that is the only acceptable evidence in medicine.

There has been a large meta-analysis of the existing studies which is the next step typically above a randomized controlled study. If your not familiar, a meta analysis looks at a large number of studies and basically takes all the data to see what the effect is across all the studies.

This meta analysis showed ivermectin to be highly effective for prevention (prophylaxis) as well as early treatment.

But here is the problem with the medical authorities insisting on large scale randomized controlled trials as the only standard they will accept, they are extremely expensive. Think like $20 million, but is the CDC putting up funding to look into this drug….nope. Is private industry ponying up to pay for such a study…nope.

Historically ivermectin has been an very safe drug, used in Africa long term as prevention of river blindness. In fact many of you are probably familiar with Ivermectin if you are dog owners (don’t take your dogs medication, that’s not what I’m saying). You know that heart worm drug you give your dog, it’s typically Ivermectin.

So we have a drug that has been widely used, safe as far as drugs are safe, that shows a high degree of effectiveness in the meta analysis and other studies out there. But we can’t give it for Covid because it’s unproven and therefore risky.

Lets shift gears for a second, what about the other therapeutics like Remdesivir? It was rushed into the war against Covid, with no long term safety data, and limited studies on the effectiveness of Covid. But it’s something like $1000 a dose (I don’t know the exact amount I just know it’s expensive). Yet this was recommended by the CDC in their treatment protocols.

What about the vaccine, we skipped animal studies, for instance there was no study of reproductive toxicity. There were then limited trials of use in humans, which has caused a huge number of short term side effects, and we have zero long term data. On top of this we are not even rigorously tracking the side effects and deaths.

In a typical emergency use authorization there is rigorous data collection. They follow and follow up patients to see what happens. Ask anyone around you who has gotten the vaccine, how many times after the shot have the received follow up calls or contact about their problems. There are two systems vsafe and Vaers which are voluntary reporting databases. There is a lot of noise and any side effect signal you see is a massive under estimation because they are voluntary reporting.

Yet we are told that this vaccine is the safest most studied vaccine in history. That is an obvious lie, we don’t know what the long term safety is because there is no data since it’s so new, and it’s not being as rigorously studied like it should be.

Now what about general safety of vaccines? Vaccines can be some of the more dangerous therapies we give. Think about a typical drug, it may damage an organ or do something bad while it’s in your system, but when you stop giving it the damage typically stops (although you may have to live your life with the consequences of that damage for life).

A vaccine in comparison actually changes your biology, it causes your immune system to respond in a different way than it did before, typically forever. So once vaxinated there is no way to remove and revert to the unvaxinated state.

So compare if you will the standard required for Ivermectin and other cheaper drugs compared to new drugs and vaccines. They are light years different. The “safety”, ivermectin is about as safe as any drug and we have massive experience in billions of doses and decades of experience. Vaccines, new fancy therapeutics, long term safety unknowable because long term safety is determined by time which you can’t speed up.

To me what I believe is happening is we are entering into a world of the Medical Industrial Complex. This is a world where there is coordination and protection by the very agencies that are suppose to regulate the pharmaceutical companies to help accelerate and push their drugs. I have heard, but have not verified, that Fauci has a financial interest in the mRNA technology…take that as a rumor unless you dig out the actual details.

There is one other change I am seeing, that scares the hell out of me. I’ve been referring to it as medical communism. In the past we believed in individualized care. The doctor and the patient discuss that patient and what is right or appropriate for them, all the context of what is right for the patient.


Now we are talking about every human on earth being vaxinated, the rational is that you could in theory harm someone else if they get sick, so your health and well being should be secondary. If you don’t take it you will be punished and unable to participate in society.

I am not anti vaccine, in fact I recommended my parents get it because they are older and therefore at significant risk. For my children in their early twenties I have encouraged them to wait, because their risk is minimal from Covid and risk especially long term from the vaccine unknown. That is how medicine is suppose to be practiced, individual by individual.

That is a truly horrifying change of perspective, in that view we are just cogs as long as the machine is better we are disposable.

In general I dig a lot. I don’t trust the words of experts, I dig into the studies and data and use that to decide if I agree or disagree with the opinion and recommendations of any one person.

 

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[Fox]

Paid for my parents to come out to Poland for a week in September from Ireland.

My dad refused to take the vaccine so it will be the first time he will be able to eat at an indoor restaurant this year.

I am looking forward to giving them a "freedom" week away from the madness of Ireland.

 

[Kak]

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”

-Alexander Frazier Tytler

The USA is living on borrowed time at this point.

So if I were to pinpoint where the USA is right now on this cycle, we are past selfishness, we are past apathy, we are embracing dependence like never before. Bondage comes next.

Cuba on the other hand… In bondage, dreams of better lives, and are testing the waters with “great courage.” Liberty is what’s next for Cuba. Got to love the location!

 

[Xavier X]

I've lived in (or visited) 30 countries so far. My opinion is that most might be comparing their biggest gripe with their own countries to their favorite aspect of "the other side."

Since I typically spend 1-3 months in each country (sometimes longer), I interact with a lot of locals, tourists and "expats." In my experience, most foreigners operate in a bubble which provides the illusion of an ideal existence. This bubble does not mean you don't visit local places or interact with locals.

It just means your reality is so removed from the daily realities of the locals that you are sheltered from it. This is not necessarily a "you are rich, they are poor" thing. Or even that you intentionally avoid local integration.
It's the nuances of local politics and its tensions. The nuances of languages you don't understand well enough. The inter-ethnic, inter-tribal and inter-racial undertones. The economic strife, and a long list of things many foreigners are blind to, even if it's not their intention to be.

It just doesn't affect them enough to notice. Think of it the way you never think of nitrogen when you inhale air, to breathe. 78% of dry air is nitrogen, and only 21% is oxygen. However, oxygen is what fuels your reality, so it's all your mind registers when you think of breathing. This doesn't mean nitrogen isn't there in a significant way.

As a result, you can have someone leave the US and set up base in a place with even the worst dictatorship, and say, "you know what? It's pretty great. Great weather, great food, fast internet, and I can run my business here." The other horrors seem to vanish or the bubble creates an illusion of being impermeable to them.

I could elaborate on a lot of other things, but to keep this post shorter, I'll just re-iterate. Being unaware or sheltered from the real and negative aspects of a society isn't equivalent to it being a better one. At the very best, you might get a trade-off that works in your favor, and you can live with.

 

[GlobalWealth]

Mexico? I think you need to do more research.

Hmmmm, let's see.

Mexico took a pragmatic approach to covid, didn't close borders, didn't destroy businesses, low cost of living, diverse country with great beaches, highland areas, and cities, great food, warm inviting people......

Or, you could listen to @robertwills who apparently has never been to Mexico (or anywhere else it seems) and gets his information from CNN, FOX, MSNBC, and the state dept website....

Up to you.

Personally I spent 3 months this year in Mexico. Had an amazing experience.

Did some medical treatments that aren't even possible in the US with amazing results, improved my health dramatically, lived on the beach with amazing weather and great food at half the cost of living in the US and felt completely safe at all times.

But what do I know? I've only traveled to 80 ish countries, lived in a dozen or so, speak to clients from around the world daily....

 

[GIlman]

for anyone who hasn’t read it, the book gulag archipelago by Alexander Solzhenitsyn is enlightening. It is the real life story of Solzhenitsyn, and the there are parallels from the rise of the authoritarian soviet state and the horrors the committed and what is going on now in many places.

Our ignorance of history will dictate that we must repeat the same lessons over and over again. It seems in many places like Australia they are at the beginning cycle from the book where people are rounded up all I’m the name of safety and betterment of society.

BTW, if you buy the book, I’d recommend the abridged version with the forward by Jordan Peterson, the unabridged version is around 2,000 of pages.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time low and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.

Just need to make sure that people have a steady supply of F-15s and nukes.

 

[Deleted85763]

Caribbean islands (even US territories) are about the most economically free places on earth, also a lifestyle I like. Costa Rica is a place that intrigues me, as well as Panama. The Baltics are also intriguing to me, but less likely.

My theory isn’t that these places are inherently more free, I just think they know what’s best for them at the moment. And I’ll take what I can get.

If I have to learn a new language, I would prefer it to be Spanish.

I would sell a testicle to be a Singapore, or Monaco citizen. Probably the two best places on earth, just by pure numbers. Never going to happen though.

Being an American and having the renunciation thing looming over your head, you have so fewer options. You really need different citizenship to just leave and live somewhere else, because if I just moved to Singapore tomorrow, I’d still be an American subject. So there’s no point to the move.

I thought about creating another country via floating platforms in the sea or by buying/renting large amounts of land in a developing country and starting an enclave of complete free trade where the only rule is "Do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else." If you think I'm joking I'm not. I know one of the wealthiest families in the world and I also know a royal family In fact they just emailed me and I emailed them back the last hour.

If you think it can't be done, we'll you might be right but you never know. I'm at a point in my life where I would want to do something like this.

I've lived in and visited a number of different countries, both developed, undeveloped and one with elements of prehistoric. Judging if the place is "better" is complex and is quite subjective. One thing that the US has that no other country has is that it's citizens have freedoms and protections that are very deep. Most citizens have no idea just how good they have it, regardless of all the incompetence, waste and abuse government at all levels has. For example, the US has no national language. To me that is like being able to take a deep breath!

As far as entrepreneurs go, they need absolute freedom to bring out the best of them. As I indicated above, to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't violate the rights of anyone else. That's the world I want to create.

 

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[GPM]

I'd rather fight

To me moving my money somewhere else is fighting. Physically staying to fight seems insane to me, as to me it's literally just some piece of dirt I was born on. Being born somewhere doesn't give me any ties to this area, other than growing up loving mountains and forests. I can get mountains and forests a lot of places, and just come visit these ones anytime I want.

 

[Madame Peccato]

I see a lot of doomposting in this thread, but I feel like things are going to get better soon! I expect this nonsense to be over by winter / next spring.

I don't have any logical explanation for this. Just my gut feeling.

Keep your chin up The average person is scared of strong people, that's why they behave the way they do. Be strong.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

36.3% of Canadians are overweight, 26.8% are obese.

Going to Costco is the ultimate clown world.

Love these people who are so obese that they're in motorized carts because they can no longer walk their weight, but they're dutifully wearing their masks. And yet a curious look into their shopping cart shows supersized blocks of cheese, Cheetos, and a case of Coke.

HEaLth!

WeAr YouR MaSk So YoU caN be HealTHY!

The world has been taken over by insanity.

 

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[ZF Lee]

I feel like everyone I speak to wants to leave their home country lol.

Slim pickings to pick from...

Tyranny everywhere.

I worry about this as well. But leave to go where?

Before the worst of this pandemic came about, Asians (especially my country) were all about gathering enough degrees or cash to run away to the West (EU, USA, Australia)

While the Westerner folks are all about dropping in on China, Southeast Asia, and even East Europe (for whatever reasons like low cost of living, running away from student debts, seeking entrepreneural opportunities in developing countries, yadda yadda yadda...)

But currently...I've no idea how all this migration will balance out.
At some point, most countries will agree to mass vaccinations and passports.

There's the cycle to think of as well:
1.The cream of the crop runs away to Nice Nation, away from Shit Nation.

2.The lesser, sheep-minded folks left in Shit Nation see the green pastures of Nice Nation.

3.Sheep folks crowd over to Nice Nation in droves.

4. Nice Nation has to toughen immigration laws, or else they get swamped with a migrant crisis and raise the ire of their own people who think their jobs will be stolen. But tighten too much, and some human rights body marches in, claiming its a violation of the right to travel.

5. Shit Nation becomes more shit with less people and less brains
(unless it can pull off a China. It sparked a huge wave of Chinese diaspora that spread around the globe when the Qing Dynasty was trashing the country...but somehow now China's pulling in MNCs and not a few Westerners)

I was just thinking the same thing, the level of disdain and hatred for world governments is at an all time low and people are getting fed up, from AU, to CAN, to Malyasia, to Italy, to the US -- people are tired of being managed like cattle.

When people say they want to leave, I say, where? Georgia? Estonia? Costa Rica? Mexico?

Right now it appears the lessor-developed countries have more appeal.

Singapore haha.
But they gotta get their travel bubble up.

Looking back at history, the old leaders of Asian countries who brought them independence used to go overseas to study, gather resources, and then come back to change the nation for the better.

That was servicehood. Now folks just go overseas and don't come back because it's easier to enjoy your own comfort far away. They don't make leaders like long ago now.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

No, I'm actually correctly observing

 

[SharpeningBlade]

meme from twitter... made me chuckle.

ant1-v@x twitter is a pretty fun niche in social atm.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

you know, you don’t have to listen to your internet marketing guru who only makes 28k/year BUT you have to listen to people who have never opened a medical textbook in their life

@GIlman is a medical doctor. He posted a 50+ page lawsuit with dozens of medical citings from doctors in the field.

Did you read it?

Of course you didn't.

And I guarantee he has read more medical textbooks in his first year in med school than you've read your entire life. But I know, he's not on your "approved list" of experts which only your government leaders allow.

enjoy your confirmation bias

Enjoy your backfire effect and self-administered slavery.

 

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[Kak]

"Fed Up With Your (Pandemic) Life? Here's Where You Can Vent."

We are talking about being fed up with our countries... The foundational reason for wanting to leave. Covid policy is at the top of many people's mind from more than just a business freedom sense, but from a personal freedom sense as well.

I think it is absolutely appropriate for the discussion. Here is what I have learned... Australia sucks a$$, and don't spend time there. That said... Thanks @Timmy C for the insight.

Thankfully, in Texas, I am living my life like normal, and have been pretty much the entire time, in defiance of mask orders and lockdowns initially, and now that the policies are gone.

Covid means nothing to me. I have wanted to move for economic reasons for longer than covid has been around.

 

[GIlman]

First, that’s because I’ve never read a medical book that I’m not pretending to know more than people who spend their entire life in that. Just like I’m not pretending to know more of you in business. Sure, I’m not saying that everything you say in business is right, but I have to ARGUMENT on why you’re wrong, otherwise my opinion counts 0.

second, didn’t know about Gilman’s life and don’t want to be rude or anything but…why do we have to believe him and don’t believe the others thousands of medics that are saying the opposite? Because they are on your “non approved” list?

we have 99 medics that say one thing, and 1 medic that says the opposite, and we have to give credit to this (not Gilman, in general) contrarian (don’t know if it’s the right word, sorry) medic? Why? I’ll tell you why, because going against the crowd makes you feel more intelligent and special, so you find every excuse to do that.

I’m really not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m simply trying to provide information and data that allows people to use their own critical thinking to arrive at a conclusion that makes sense to them. Hopefully when people read what I write they ask why is that? What does that mean? Why could that be right? Why could that be wrong? How does that relate to the understanding I have right now? Ultimately I hope everyone would dig in and inform themselves about more issues.

If you haven’t read that lawsuit, I would highly encourage it, because it lays out the areas with Covid and treatment where we have either gone horribly wrong and it’s well documented, or where there are concerning data or trends.

Do you have to accept every claim they make in it? No!! But if you reject something they say, ask yourself…on what basis am I rejecting this? What flaws are their in their assumption? What data or experience contradicts what they are re claiming? What are my biases that may make me accept or reject something whether it is true or not?

The thing about safety of anything though, it’s an indirect determination. You cannot test for safety per se, all you can do is watch for other problems and then try to link that problem to the treatment as a cause. Safety is the absence of bad outcomes. That is much harder to determine than it seems.

The issues with the Covid vaccine is that we have not done many of the studies that typically go into ALL fda approvals. Critical animal studies were skipped, the phases of trials were all compressed and combined. What’s the problem with that approach? Well in a typical experiment you design it to try and isolate the difference between study populations to one variable. How to you meaningfully compress that?

I have been hearing rumors of the vaccine receiving full FDA approval in the coming months. To me personally this “approval” will mean nothing, because I know all the steps that have been skipped. Certainly the typical phase 4 study, which takes years to complete (usually 2-5 years), and is intended to look for long term safety cannot have been completed - there is simply not enough time.

FDA approval should mean that a treatment has undergone the same rigorous examination and scrutiny that all treatments do. If Covid vaccine has not run the full FDA gauntlet, then what does the stamp of approval even mean? As an analogy if a car is typically crash tested from 10 directions but some car was only tested from one direction, would the safety rating mean the same thing to you? The point of safety testing is to be comprehensive so things don’t fall through the cracks.

There is enormous political pressure for the FDA to approve it, which seems to be the real driving force here - certainly it’s not the volumes of scientific data that accompany a typical approval.

From my own personal experience, I have seen a noticeable increase in the number of young people (20’s-40’s) coming in with stroke symptoms that began around the time the vaccine rolled out. In the past this was exceptionally rare in these age groups. Now it’s not uncommon for me to see 2-4 a day. Can I say this is related to the vaccine? No I can’t. It could be just as easily a complication of Covid infection itself. Or maybe some fact entirely different such as changes in referral pattern, which could mean that I SEE more cases but the actual # of cases in the population is steady. However, does this trend raise questions and concerns to me…yeah, until I have some well reasoned or data driven explanation.