Gullible MLM junkies. SOS

[Simon Ashari]

He through out a number that was 603% success rate (wtf does that even mean?)

And here's me thinking the maximum success rate was 100%. Sign me up. I'll try find the company's site too (for a laugh).

 

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[Tommy92l]

The thing that is truly bothersome is the MLM superiority complex. When they say that they are their own boss, it enrages me. Do you decide on what their health benefits are, or set their hours? Shit, can you even fire them!? LOL. It's always the kids with the backwards hats posting them holding a bottle of Verve saying "Yeah bro, whoever does 9-5 is an IDIOT!". They brainwash these kids and have no humility while doing so.

It's not the product that I don't like, well, actually it tastes like shit and for the most part you're thinking "What product", since they never teach you how to sell it. It's the "I SELL VERVE! I'M BETTER THAN YOU! YOU'RE AVERAGE!", brainwashing bullshit that gets to me.

If they are making money for a short run and milk da F*ck out of it, good for them! That's not sarcasm, seriously, good for them. What is so crazy is that when I went to one of these meetings they told me something along the lines of
"We have the same advertising budget as redbull, and while they're doing commercials, we're making it more personal. We are involving YOU to advertise it, you are on the front lines of something HUGE! That no one else knows about!". I rarely curse but here I go. I know this may come as a shock, but Rebulls marketing works so well because I WANT to be like the dude jumping out a helicopter or doing backflips in a dirt bike. Verve hasn't sold me because I don't desire to be like the F*cking a**hole putting everyone else down who doesn't buy his product.

Clearly the owners of redbull are the idiots here. It's not like every single person has heard of their product. "What's a redbull? I only drink VERVE", said no one, ever.

 

[oddball]

I like the direct selling party plan model. Just have good products/services, something consumable is best for repeat orders and provide a good value to consumer and PT/FT income opportunities. The key sustainable part is in the product/service being a value, not the recruitment and biz opp fee. When companies value proposition is mostly just recruiting and splitting the bizop fee is where you get into pyramids and unsustainability. You have to provide value to the consumer and that will drive the rest. The biz model is agnostic but gets a bad rap, there are good ones and shady ones and we hear a lot about the shady ones. They are just bad businesses like any other no matter if its an online biz, shady retail biz, scammers etc...

Direct selling is just another way to go to market. Not having to have sales people, manage brokers/mfg reps to sell to wholesalers and distributors all taking a cut, then retailers doubling the price frees up commissions of 25% and more in various compensation to the sales org.

Buffett bought Pampered Chef doing 750million a year, debt free, positive cash flow i think about 10 yrs ago. That company grew fast, 200+% a year for several years. Don't know where it is now. Kitchen gadgets aren't exactly consumable so I'd say they have had lots of turnover once a person sells gadgets to their circle of friends/family.

Look at the newer ones who grew like mad. Nerium, Isagenix etc... I also think Herbalife gets somewhat of a bad rap, they've been around for 30 yrs. Mary Kay another long term direct sales org. etc...

With todays technology and especially the fulfillment and direct distribution options (amazon, ups, fedx, fulfillment houses, supply chain applications) it makes it much much easier to go to market direct vs. the traditional wholesale distribution retailer route if one chooses to.

For people on this forum who are entrepreneurial, joining one will generally not get you too far unless you are a super recruiter and bust your butt, but if you can do that, you might as well start your own and build your own equity.

I saw this got revived and just quick searched to see if anyone mentioned Herbalife. Herbalife is in a world of shit right now and they have been on the radar for over a year since Ackman released he had a billion dollar short on the company. I don't think Ackman will come out on the losing end of this, I don't feel like typing an essay right now but I feel pretty strong about it. FTC recently stepped in to investigate and now the FBI as well. Vemma, which is a newer company with similar structure, has had trouble in Italy with being a pyramid scheme and recently changed its policy. IMO, they did this not uonly because what has happened in Italy, but also because issues with Herbalife. Like I said, I think Herbalife is going to lose and it will completely change the MLM industry moving forward. The companies like Vemma that compensate you based on recruitment instead of sales will die.

 

[Simon Ashari]

"I can't let him be average"

Just lost it right there.

Didn't know there were MLM memes. Genius.

 

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[oddball]

The thing that is truly bothersome is the MLM superiority complex. When they say that they are their own boss, it enrages me. Do you decide on what their health benefits are, or set their hours? Shit, can you even fire them!? LOL. It's always the kids with the backwards hats posting them holding a bottle of Verve saying "Yeah bro, whoever does 9-5 is an IDIOT!". They brainwash these kids and have no humility while doing so.





It's not the product that I don't like, well, actually it tastes like shit and for the most part you're thinking "What product", since they never teach you how to sell it. It's the "I SELL VERVE! I'M BETTER THAN YOU! YOU'RE AVERAGE!", brainwashing bullshit that gets to me.

I hate Vemma with a passion. This biggest lolz I get is when they try and convince me its not a pyramid scheme and I don't know what I'm talking about, when I ask if they have spoken to the FTC about it they shut up fast. I spoke with Mr. Vader Nat who is considered the the Kraken of the FTC, while he couldn't tell me much, everything I mentioned about Vemma pointed it to a pyramid scheme.

I tried to ask one of the high up leaders how much he pays per can so he knew how much to charge for them he told me "I don't sell anything, I'm not a F*ckin girlscout." They think they are so business smart but their ignorance is mind blowing.

 

[oddball]

If anyone cares to look into Vemma/Verve, if you ever see anything from Truth in Advertising, I'd like to think I had a part in it. A lot of what they discovered they did on their own but I initially contacted them and helped them a lot when they started researching. I even spoke with someone from the New York Post but she didn't mention me because I was smart enough not to get suckered in.

 

[Tommy92l]

Would you agree that they truly are excellent at brainwashing , though ?

 

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[oddball]

BK is a genius, I will give it to him, he knows how to market. He saw social media as a key part to marketing and completely took control. Plus, he recruited smart guys to push it.

 

[Simon Ashari]

@parkerscott Just had a look at the wakeupnow video. Hilarious. Has every generic MLM sales tactic in the book.

The sad thing is, it works.

 

[parkerscott]

I dont understand how people fall into this even when their friends tell them not too. Oh yeah i forgot they dont want to be average

 

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[Tommy92l]

Do you know what it is? It's the socially accepted entrepreneurial route. What do I mean?

Mom, dad, friends.... Guys, I'm staring a business
Response: You don't have the genes for that! You're just not cut out to be a business man! You will never afford a loan! It will fail just like my friends, uncles, nephews, friends, dad's did!

Mom, dad, friends..... guys, I'm joining amway!
Response: Good for you! That's totally socially accepted since you're not really taking a risk! Oh man, you're gonna fit in like everyone else at Amway!

It's bullshit.

 

[Simon Ashari]

Do you know what it is? It's the socially accepted entrepreneurial route. What do I mean?

Mom, dad, friends.... Guys, I'm staring a business
Response: You don't have the genes for that! You're just not cut out to be a business man! You will never afford a loan! It will fail just like my friends, uncles, nephews, friends, dad's did!

Mom, dad, friends..... guys, I'm joining amway!
Response: Good for you! That's totally socially accepted since you're not really taking a risk! Oh man, you're gonna fit in like everyone else at Amway!

It's bullshit.

I think you're right. And the sad part is, the only person the kid is likely to sell to are his parents, other family and friends.

He will get them to buy in and then get them purchasing the company's shitty and overpriced product. No stranger or acquaintance he tries to sell to will buy.

 

[Silverhawk851]

"I can't let him be average"

"DUDE I JUST SOLD MY MOM 3 BUILDER PACKS.

hahahahha EPIC. Some broke kid who just got back from a motivational talk is reading this right now and shaking his head furiously at us "haters" Lol

It's good to understand sales, learn communication skills, develop yourself, hey even hang around other motivated people rather than pothead drug-dealers.

But what I despise is, MLMs teaches alot of kids to be all image and no substance. Since social media is how they get most of their motivated "hires" they have to openly portray a great life.

This leads to incessant flaunting of rented/leased entry-level cars, talking down to actually successful people, and living through a false image.
In this is desperate desire to fulfill this image, they end up going in debt and buying the very thing that shackles them to mediocrity.

Instead of actually accepting circumstances, and working hard on creating a value-providing business, the lesson taught is work hard to develop a million-dollar image, and things will "come" when you live in "prosperity".

I've even seen a 19 year old kid in a suit making about $10,000 a year have a experienced Real Estate Investor bring his business plan and edit it with a red pen as a consultant. LOL I didn't know to shake my head or shake the Investors head

 

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[parkerscott]

I dont want to live on this planet

 

[UsmaanJ]

Are you sure they are making what they say they are making?

I know lots of mlm'ers who "know of their boss making $10K a week" but they won't show you. And you don't see their expenses either.

How much they say they make and what they really make varies greatly.

If I'm honest with you I have not seen the money personally. However I have seen a change in lifestyle, quitting jobs, looking for offices. Some of the guys I'm talking about were BROKE AS F**K. But now they are buying expensive suits for their 'meeting', buying flashy car etc.

 

[Simon Ashari]

hahahahha EPIC. Some broke kid who just got back from a motivational talk is reading this right now and shaking his head furiously at us "haters" Lol

They've been told to avoid 'dream-killers' like ourselves.

 

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[Nosferatu]

Story time.


Today i was approached by an assistant in another suite that happens to work in the same build as i do.

She called me over so she can show me "something" -- at this point i was assuming she needed help moving something as they were moving their stuff to another level of the building (renovations & such) -- she tells me "no" -- she just needs me to watch something. I go to her desk and look at her screen, when she hits the play button on me.

5 Seconds into the video playing, and by reading the footer of the website (dream tours) - i knew this girl landed into some MLM funnel and is now trying to recruit me. I said "Oh this is an MLM, i'm not interested in this...." -- faster than i could finish my sentence, this girl starts demanding/asking me all sorts of questions about why i don't do it -- and why i wouldn't want to make more money -- and how much am i making now -- etc -- at some point she starts firing off tons of reasons why she's doing so great in this program and that she made her money back already.. i told her, im not interested in that because it's not a real business -- it's a pyramid scheme. She proceeds to tell me that if i joined i wouldn't be needing a job and that her boyfriend buys $400 pants and $600 shoes, and that she could quit her job at any moment, and that she's going to be rich... etc etc -- i just couldn't understand it -- how this conversation went soooooo off the deep end so quickly. I chuckled to myself because here we are - your promoting this "opportunity" to me, getting mad at me because i'm not interested, then have the nerve to make assumptions of my finances. And she's the one coming to work everyday as an entry level, part-time assistant.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time i've been approached by an acquaintance or friend about this. Yet here we are, many months later these people are still broke. MLM's only works if you're on top of the food chain. Period. There is almost no value in joining an MLM, unless it's to train you to get out of an MLM, and help you transition into a real business.

 

[Tengen]

I'm glad so many people here are wary of the MLM model. I have a visceral disgust for them and their tactics.

 

[parkerscott]

Story time.


Today i was approached by an assistant in another suite that happens to work in the same build as i do.

She called me over so she can show me "something" -- at this point i was assuming she needed help moving something as they were moving their stuff to another level of the building (renovations & such) -- she tells me "no" -- she just needs me to watch something. I go to her desk and look at her screen, when she hits the play button on me.

5 Seconds into the video playing, and by reading the footer of the website (dream tours) - i knew this girl landed into some MLM funnel and is now trying to recruit me. I said "Oh this is an MLM, i'm not interested in this...." -- faster than i could finish my sentence, this girl starts demanding/asking me all sorts of questions about why i don't do it -- and why i wouldn't want to make more money -- and how much am i making now -- etc -- at some point she starts firing off tons of reasons why she's doing so great in this program and that she made her money back already.. i told her, im not interested in that because it's not a real business -- it's a pyramid scheme. She proceeds to tell me that if i joined i wouldn't be needing a job and that her boyfriend buys $400 pants and $600 shoes, and that she could quit her job at any moment, and that she's going to be rich... etc etc -- i just couldn't understand it -- how this conversation went soooooo off the deep end so quickly. I chuckled to myself because here we are - your promoting this "opportunity" to me, getting mad at me because i'm not interested, then have the nerve to make assumptions of my finances. And she's the one coming to work everyday as an entry level, part-time assistant.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time i've been approached by an acquaintance or friend about this. Yet here we are, many months later these people are still broke. MLM's only works if you're on top of the food chain. Period. There is almost no value in joining an MLM, unless it's to train you to get out of an MLM, and help you transition into a real business.

I felt your pain just reading that. Also being the 20 year old kid that I am if I want to use facebook there is no way around seeing this stuff other than blocking nearly everyone or just not logging in. I cant even offer them advice without me being wrong.

 

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[Nosferatu]

I felt your pain just reading that. Also being the 20 year old kid that I am if I want to use facebook there is no way around seeing this stuff other than blocking nearly everyone or just not logging in. I cant even offer them advice without me being wrong.

lol funny you say that -- this assistant was a 19 year girl who had the answer to just about everything. I have a few people on my facebook page that invest in dream tours - another female, but slightly older -- every single one of those facebook posts are just promoting the MLM. It's sad.

 

[IceCreamKid]

I chuckled to myself because here we are - your promoting this "opportunity" to me, getting mad at me because i'm not interested, then have the nerve to make assumptions of my finances.

Every time someone approaches me and uses the phrase, "I have an OPPORTUNITY for you", my brain instantly senses it as an MLM and I mentally check out. You cannot convince the zombies that they are wrong.

Lost one of my best buddies because he got sucked into an MLM and it completely changed his character. 5 years later, he's still saying that freedom is just around the corner for him.

 

[parkerscott]

lol funny you say that -- this assistant was a 19 year girl who had the answer to just about everything. I have a few people on my facebook page that invest in dream tours - another female, but slightly older -- every single one of those facebook posts are just promoting the MLM. It's sad.

Could have seen that age coming. Im at the know it all stage too but, atleast I will take criticism and, apply it if the person has enough credibility or what they are saying makes sense. I think because they spend so much to gain entry they are left trying to promote it so hard. If you put 500$ into a new bicycle that was supposed to haul you to work and the back hub blew out you would try to make the hub work rather than trashing the bike because the hub costs too much to replace. I think after they invest the money they dont want to chalk it up as a loss, so they beat it like a dead horse till they break even. Then after they break even they probably think "hey im on an upward slope" and continue to promote then the mlm dies off and so does their dream and they are left with no friends.

Every time someone approaches me and uses the phrase, "I have an OPPORTUNITY for you", my brain instantly senses it as an MLM and I mentally check out. You cannot convince the zombies that they are wrong.

Lost one of my best buddies because he got sucked into an MLM and it completely changed his character. 5 years later, he's still saying that freedom is just around the corner for him.

5 years!!!! 5 years!!!

 

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[Simon Ashari]

at some point she starts firing off tons of reasons why she's doing so great in this program and that she made her money back already..

Unfortunately, almost 100% of pitches to join MLM do not talk about the product they sell (at least not until the very end, when it's an afterthought).

The talk is all about 'freedom', 'building your cash cow', 'escaping the rat race' etc.

I know of one friend who got into MLM and actually sold product to people who weren't his parents or friends.


He would sell a few website packages for $2000 and get $400 of that as commission. I thought to myself: "you could have spent $400 hiring someone to make the website for them and pocket the other $1600 just like your company is doing."

The company also sold vitamins, go figure.

 

[CommonCents]

I saw this got revived and just quick searched to see if anyone mentioned Herbalife. Herbalife is in a world of shit right now and they have been on the radar for over a year since Ackman released he had a billion dollar short on the company. I don't think Ackman will come out on the losing end of this, I don't feel like typing an essay right now but I feel pretty strong about it. FTC recently stepped in to investigate and now the FBI as well. Vemma, which is a newer company with similar structure, has had trouble in Italy with being a pyramid scheme and recently changed its policy. IMO, they did this not uonly because what has happened in Italy, but also because issues with Herbalife. Like I said, I think Herbalife is going to lose and it will completely change the MLM industry moving forward. The companies like Vemma that compensate you based on recruitment instead of sales will die.

I have my doubts that much will happen other than a slap on the wrist. Chances are just as good that ackman gets caught in a short squeeze. Icahn and others are on the other side of the trade and now have 5 board seats. Ackman has been throwing around his #$%^ in a case of hedge fund hubris and might find himself in the regulatory vice. It was recently disclosed he had an agreement to pay a whistleblower up to 2.5 million bucks for going public. Are there ethics issues w/ Herbalife, probably, but definitely w/ ackman as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/herbalife-investigation-part-whistleblower-23449064

One of Ackman's employees already left his company for INSIDERS trading after telling his roommate about the impending ackman trade.

Ackman has another gig frontrunning acquisitions teaming up w/ the potential acquiring ceo. It's walking a fine line of INSIDERS trading, if not ethically challenged.

So far the accusations against herbalife are on the basis of ethics, and not illegality.

 

[liquidglass]

MLMs are a very interesting market. But just like MJ talks about in his book, people get into it because of the low barrier of entry and then they wonder why they aren't wildly successful.

People get into MLMs because it's easy to spend a few hundred and call yourself a business owner rather than be original and try something which would risk failure.

But personally I think there are lessons in everything. Analyze how MLMs get people so excited and literally get them to run around like crazy and invite people to their house to watch a DVD and apply that to hiring new employees for your business to make them brand promoters.

 

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[Tommy92l]

This reminds me SO much of an MLM pitch

 

[MJ DeMarco]

If I'm honest with you I have not seen the money personally. However I have seen a change in lifestyle, quitting jobs, looking for offices. Some of the guys I'm talking about were BROKE AS F**K. But now they are buying expensive suits for their 'meeting', buying flashy car etc.

C'mon bro. Don't be fooled.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

With all the great MEMES in here, this has gone GOLD!!!!

 

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[Simon Ashari]

This reminds me SO much of an MLM pitch

Found this video (below) by following one of the links in this thread. Was laughing my a$$ off the entire time watching it.

Wonder if the check is actually being cashed. Or if they actually bought the car to give away (as opposed to renting it for a night).

Everyone getting excited about the car they 'gave away'.

Have a look at the ring at 3:34... can it get any more cheesy?

 

[oddball]

I love this bit of marketing, Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and several others all said the same EXACT things...crazy, right?

Ok ok, I'm done...