High Value PPC/SEO Services

[csalvato]

In the past, I picked a random niche and just ran with it. It was based on my love of bodyweight fitness and acrobatics. The product is an eBook with optional video package that I sell on chrissalvato.com, mostly through free signups for a challenge I created.

The traffic comes from SEO, my affiliates and guest posts. I currently have 13500+ subscribers and several hundred customers.

Currently, it's making in the low 5 figures yearly, but when I learned more about internet market research (SEMRush, SpyFu.com, keyword research, Google AdWords), I realized the cap on this market was pretty low. Even if I scale my business to 10x what it currently is, I will be at 100k/year. And because I am my brand, it can't lead to a liquidation event. There was no exit strategy, and it's off my ultimate goal.

In the latter part of this year, I did some experiments and built out a few "niche sites" for generating lead-generation affiliation revenue, and AdSense revenue. These experiments were a success (generating $300-$400/month), but again, I don't like the affiliation revenue model because it relinquishes a lot of control.

With my newfound skills in SEO and PPC, I started from scratch. Instead of working from my "passions" first, I put together lists of people/businesses with HUGE bankrolls, where paying someone $5-$10k/month is a reasonable investment for PPC/SEO advertising.

That way, if I get 3 clients, I can be at 15-30k/month easily. I can always scale to more clients by hiring staff to handle accounts.

This list includes:

• High Powered Consultants
• Doctors/Surgeons/Dentists
• Architects/Architecture firms
• Custom Home Builders
• Luxury Real Estate Agents
• Medical Device Companies

I am sure I can make a list of about 100 different categories here, but I stopped at about 6 because all of these interest me.

I started to do research and called people in my network. It turns out I know someone who works for a high powered surgeon. She disclosed that they are spending upwards of 10k/month on their PPC. Since I also have experience in the medical field already, I decided to pursue this niche.

The past few months have included several direct marketing and cold calling experiments. So far, nothing is working. I am keeping at it, with my next direct marketing experiment being formulated as we speak.

So far, I have invested over $1k in trying to get my first client, and the barrier of entry here seems pretty high, so I think I am on the right track.

Will provide more updates if people are interested.

 

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[csalvato]

3 weeks ago I started an experiment, and I am finally getting some results...

I put together some direct marketing "shock and awe" packages in an attempt to generate leads. Rather than sending out 1000 mailers, I spent about $1000 to send out 11 highly detailed, highly personal packages in bright red boxes.

Each box contained two bound reports with the prospect's name, along with about 10 other smaller slips, cards and flyers, with hand written sticky notes and hand highlighting and hand written notes within the bound reports.

So far, the results are somewhat inconclusive, but here's what happened:

1. I sent out the mailers after ~2 weeks of preparation and research.
2. 10/11 mailers were delivered within ~2 weeks (one is still on it's way for some unknown reason) (long delivery is bc they were sent to US leads from the UK).
3. I haven't received a single call or email from anyone I sent to after 4-6 days

So, the experiment kind of sucked in terms of creating inbound leads (unless these people just take a REALLY long time to get around to things that interest them...they are very busy people who have phone gatekeepers, afterall).

But, my wife and I spent a few hours working on an email script by calling OTHER people who didn't get a package, pretending that we sent one to them and asking if we could leave a message/voicemail. (Collectively, we have about 10 years of phone sales experience of high value products).

After about 6-10 trial calls, we hit on a script that ALWAYS resulted in a message taken or us leaving a voicemail.

So we started calling each prospect on the phone, and got an answer from a receptionist with 9/10 who received packages. Most people took the message, but we could tell there was little or no interest.

There were 2-3 that said they DID receive the package and took a message, and didn't seem completely turned off...even providing times that are best to reach the prospects directly.

So, right now the results are inconclusive whether or not this has intrigued people enough to engage in a phone conversation. But my original experiment was to try and see if I could get people to CONTACT ME who were highly interested. This has turned into glorified cold calling...

My wife is determined to continue the cold calling and trying to get these people on the phone...but I am thinking of abandoning it and trying other inbound marketing methods. I am thinking of doing one or both of these:

1. Sending out 1000-2000 direct mailers that include a URL where they can sign up for a free report. Even a 1% return would mean 10-20 leads that have opted-in and would be more likely to buy. Cost would depend on the total sends...but probably in the $800-$2000 range.
2. Swiping copy/marketing tactics from competition in the field who use PPC for lead generation. CPC in this area is like... $7-$15/click, but I can set a budget of $1000 and see how many leads I can generate with that value. If I were going to be conservative and estimate a 1% conversion rate, though, it would probably take $1500-$3000 to get my first real lead.

Any thoughts/feedback welcome.

 

[bella5]

Have you checked out source-wave.com? There's a couple of videos on there about getting high end SEO clients - it's not something I've ventured into but I have watched one of the videos, from memory he uses targeted FB ads and then pushes to a webinar which starts the funnel.

 

[csalvato]

I saw that video, actually. I actually tried that approach, but call bullshit on it (or, in other words, it didn't work for me).

After 2 weeks of ads and $500 in ad spend on FB, I generated a total of 9 leads, no one showed up for the webinars and no one responded to my emails after that or watched the recorded videos.

I used his same ad text and landing page, so something doesn't add up there. Either he had a very different experience, I had bad luck, or he never actually tried that method himself.

I could iterate on that, but abandoned it after my bad experience there.

 

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[jon.a]

You're selling a how to handstand deal?

 

[jon.a]

You're selling a how to handstand deal?

Okay never mind, I see that you're selling a marketing package/service.

 

[MVDH]

Speaking from experience, and working with high end SEO/PPC clients, they don't care about your service.. they don't care about you.. they care about, "I can make you an extra $xxx,xxx per month"... get that across and they will be all ears!..

A sneaky tip, is to find large companies, and find out who the CEO/Decision maker is... then find out who their assistant is, and send them an email addressed to the decision maker..

Hi <decision maker>,

I did some research on <whatever>, and found that I see an opporutnity to produce an extra $xxxxxx of revenue for you a year.

If you're interested, give me a cal.. yada yada yada..

The key is to send this to the assistant..

why?

Because it is addressed to the decision maker, so likely she will send this on, if she doesnt, you follow up the e-mail and copy in the decision maker, that way it makes her assistant almost look bad for not forwarding this on...

The key is of course to address the decision maker, so the assistant gets the email and is likely to pass it on, as you called him by first name.

 

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[Tom.V]

I make hundreds of calls per day to businesses for high end SEO services. Go for the pain, look for the ones who got hit hard by updates. As for the secret sauce to prospecting, it's volume. Remember that the landscape has changed, everyone has been burned before, and is not all willy-nilly about SEO anymore. It's a really hard sell, but it can be done. As far as the BHW direct mail tactics, they may have worked back in 2010, but now, probably more of a waste of funds. The market has reached a different level of sophistication.

 

[csalvato]

For anyone interested, here is a set of the documents I included in the direct mailer that DIDN'T work.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u0pqat7jsl3n4nw/AAA0-yI-Spc4HAbU51Y5KmSsa

A sneaky tip, is to find large companies, and find out who the CEO/Decision maker is... then find out who their assistant is, and send them an email addressed to the decision maker..

Is this information publicly available? I have tried to find information like this in the past but I couldn't figure out a way to get it reliably.

I was using skalivecounts.com (lead buying service) to get the mailing addresses of the practices, but was sending the packages to the surgeons themselves. They don't sell email addresses, and companies who do don't seem to disclose the addresses but send to the list on your behalf.

I can buy people who fill a different role, but "assistant" isn't on the list. It might be "Administrator" or "Director of Marketing", but that seems like a random guess...

Any light you can shed on how getting this info is possible?

I make hundreds of calls per day to businesses for high end SEO services. Go for the pain, look for the ones who got hit hard by updates. As for the secret sauce to prospecting, it's volume. Remember that the landscape has changed, everyone has been burned before, and is not all willy-nilly about SEO anymore. It's a really hard sell, but it can be done. As far as the BHW direct mail tactics, they may have worked back in 2010, but now, probably more of a waste of funds. The market has reached a different level of sophistication.

I didn't get the tactic from BHW, but from reading Direct Marketing to the Affluent by Dan Kennedy. I am not sure if direct mailings are a passing fad though, as its something that has been effective for over 100 years. I could be wrong though since I am still new to them.

Even then, hundreds of calls? Cold calls? Is that the basis of your business? Is that really the best way? In my experience, inbound marketing was always more pleasant and repeatable for both parties, but I could be wrong here...any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[RHL]

Any thoughts/feedback welcome.

Yeah, you're going about this bass ackwards and it's costing you money.

Messages are worthless, whether on machines or receptionists, unless you're trying to reach someone of god-tier status where their secretary is basically a high-level executive as well, like the VP of Exxon-Mobil or something. Letters are worthless. Emails are worthless. Person to person, voice to voice, that's the fast way to get anything done. If they can't talk, don't leave a message, figure out when they can talk and call them back.

What you need to do is provide your services to a few local buisinesses that loosely fit your profile, and if they won't accept, do it for free or at a greatly reduced rate, where they can't say no.

Then, once you've done that and increased their traffic and conversions, take that information to future clients as your opener. "I increased Fairview Dental's list of regular patients by 8% in just 6 months. I can do the same for you!

Now, I admit that I'm a little bit of an idealist when it comes to selling. I don't like the approach where you sell a product that factually compares unfavorably to the competition for the same price as a much better one just by force of branding and exclusivity. For me, I like to let the value I'm providing drive the sale 100%. If that's not you, that's fine, but that makes building a reputation much harder. If you know you can deliver the results, do it for someone, even if it means working on the cheap the first time, and let the word spread by getting news of your results out there. Results and value should be the first thing out of your mouth after your name every time you make a call.

 

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[Stu_Hefner]

How about the old-fashioned way?

Schedule a meeting with a decision maker in person and organize a presentation in detail so you can show him exactly how you will make them x amount.

Had the privilege of interacting with some people in the industries you target and they seem to be bombarded by SEO internet marketing pitches all the time.

The market has reached a different level of sophistication.

This.

 

[themaxx]

Chris! Great to see you posting here - I actually came across your handstand product through eatmoveimprove.com. I was planning on buying it once I completed the free ebook, but alas, I never got started... but I'm still on your mailing list! Although I haven't received anything since 4 December....

Anyway if you're interested in high value PPC, you should definitely check out Taewoo at freshsupercool.com. He's recently started advising dentists on PPC, and there should be some crossover with your work with surgeons. Some of his most recent posts talk about how he works on high value PPC.

All the best!

Pete

 

[Eskil]

She disclosed that they are spending upwards of 10k/month on their PPC.

Also be aware that even though a company is spending $10k or more on paid traffic, that doesn't mean they are willing to spend that on someone to help them. Some companies will spend thousands in CPC / click costs, but get really stingy when it comes to paying a specialist or agency on top of their already high click costs.

 

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[mlk]

Have you thought about ranking a site in the medical device niche (or any else), generate leads and sell those instead of your service?

Thats win-win, otherwise you are just one of the thousands of "seo" providers.

 

[csalvato]

Before answering your questions, I just want to say this was the first day I enjoyed work in about 8 months. Literally, 8 months of hating working for myself, and today I had my first good day.

The past 8 months felt like lots of work with little reward and the rewards I did gain weren't sustainable or didn't have lasting, profound effect.

Today, however, I called medical marketing firms and pitched an idea to about 15 of them. On my first call, I pitched the idea and the woman said "We would find that VERY appealing. Send more information via email."

It was the first time I had interest in a high value product, and I feel like I'm on the right track, but still not there yet.

Later in the day I realized there might be some legal snags, but I'll sort that out after validating if it's a good idea or not.

Anyway, onto your feedback, which I greatly appreciate.

What you need to do is provide your services to a few local buisinesses that loosely fit your profile, and if they won't accept, do it for free or at a greatly reduced rate, where they can't say no.

I think you're right in most cases, but I don't think this approach is best for me:

1. There are no local businesses I can walk into and force myself on because I live in the UK, and would prefer to be paid in USD as I am moving back to the US within a year. It also opens up liability in VAT, US taxes and other shit if I start accepting British money for trade.
2. I already HAVE experience with these services. My problem isn't the product I offer (I concede that I probably need to refine the USP). I don't even get to TELL them about the product at this point because I haven't even figured out a way to get past the gatekeepers. The real problem is getting to talk to decision makers, which is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT in this industry and has been taking some hacking. I spoke with 10 internet marketers for surgeons today, and several of them said how difficult it is to get them on the phone and make a decision; and provided tips on how I can hack around that.

How about the old-fashioned way?

Schedule a meeting with a decision maker in person and organize a presentation in detail so you can show him exactly how you will make them x amount.

Had the privilege of interacting with some people in the industries you target and they seem to be bombarded by SEO internet marketing pitches all the time.

I agree I need to get in front of a decision maker...but thats the hard part.

For this niche, getting in front of the decision maker (or puzzling out the decision maker) is difficult. I was previously practicing single-doctor practices.

I got a tip today from another marketer in this space saying that single-doctor practices aren't good, because they tend to be terrible at delegating and releasing control. 6-7+ surgeon practices are much better.

Chris! Great to see you posting here - I actually came across your handstand product through eatmoveimprove.com. I was planning on buying it once I completed the free ebook, but alas, I never got started... but I'm still on your mailing list! Although I haven't received anything since 4 December....

Anyway if you're interested in high value PPC, you should definitely check out Taewoo at freshsupercool.com. He's recently started advising dentists on PPC, and there should be some crossover with your work with surgeons. Some of his most recent posts talk about how he works on high value PPC.

Hey dude! Thanks for the feedback! I am glad you liked the program, but if you want to handstand, you have to finish the first 28-days of the challenge, at least. Handstands are a habit

I don't send out regular content to the handstand list tho, and that's why I have 13200 people on my list who haven't bought anything. I know there is opportunity there (Noah Kagan just ripped me apart for an hour last night on Skype telling me I have opportunity there...), both in how I present my products, how I grow my traffic, how I create affiliates and how I sell to my list...

...but I honestly don't think that I can grow that product into something that is going to make 10k/month or help me hit my target of millions...and if I can, it likely doesn't have a great exit strategy.

And even if it does, I really HATE writing regular blogs and fitness books. While my book is awesome (I have like 100 testimonials on it and the challenge), I found it completely drained me, and the return on each blog post was F*ck-all most of the time.

I don't like writing for 4 days straight to put out a high quality article that doesn't make me more money... Helping people is great, and I love my handstand challengers, but at some point I need to put bread on the table!

Also be aware that even though a company is spending $10k or more on paid traffic, that doesn't mean they are willing to spend that on someone to help them. Some companies will spend thousands in CPC / click costs, but get really stingy when it comes to paying a specialist or agency on top of their already high click costs.

That's a great point, but this particular friend told me they are paying a firm (www.mdconnectinc.com) to handle everything, and paying them upwards of $10k/month. I called MD Connect today to talk about the market, actually.

That aside, you're absolutely right. A rep from DoctorSites told me that the small practices HATE to relinquish control a lot of the time, and you have to hack around getting to talk to the right person at the right time...

Have you thought about ranking a site in the medical device niche (or any else), generate leads and sell those instead of your service?

Thats win-win, otherwise you are just one of the thousands of "seo" providers.

Yes, actually, but not just ranking a site. I thought of driving traffic to that site via PPC, as well. Something like this (http://www.autoinsurancelab.com/), but for cosmetic surgery leads instead of auto insurance quotes.

I spoke with over 15 marketing firms today in an attempt to see if my idea was a good one, and if they wanted to partner up to see it get developed. About 10 of them asked for more information via email.

It was a good feeling so I am starting to think I am on the right track.

 

[csalvato]

So I changed my approach and product idea a bit....

I called some cosmetic surgery marketing agencies to bounce a surgical lead generation idea off of them. Some hated it, but some loved it.

I have tried to get the marketing person for surgical practices on the phone directly, but the gatekeepers completely shut this down. I am told to send an email to the general office mailbox, call back later, etc. But I never get to talk to the marketing person, after calling about 20 practices.

One practice told me they think my system violates some laws, and hung up the phone on me.

So I have a few options:

1. Pivot back to SEO/PPC services for this niche, because that would fall under "professional services"
2. Contact legal people, and see if this is something that is legal. Afterall, ZocDoc and similar companies collect a monthly fee, but again this may fall under "professional services" Some of my reading indicates it might be legal, but then my system isn't as "No Risk" as I was hoping.
3. Pursue a lead generation idea in an area that is not as highly regulated.
4. Pursue something completely new...back to the drawing board.

Any thoughts/feedback appreciated.

 

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[csalvato]

So I have a few options:

1. Pivot back to SEO/PPC services for this niche, because that would fall under "professional services"
2. Contact legal people, and see if this is something that is legal. Afterall, ZocDoc and similar companies collect a monthly fee, but again this may fall under "professional services" Some of my reading indicates it might be legal, but then my system isn't as "No Risk" as I was hoping.
3. Pursue a lead generation idea in an area that is not as highly regulated.
4. Pursue something completely new...back to the drawing board

Contacted a lawyer who wrote about this topic. He said what I was planning to do, apparently, is very illegal.

So I either bring the idea to another market, find a different way to satisfy this market, or go back to the drawing board.

 

[jon.a]

Contacted a lawyer who wrote about this topic. He said what I was planning to do, apparently, is very illegal.

So I either bring the idea to another market, find a different way to satisfy this market, or go back to the drawing board.

Will you share the idea, so that others can learn from your mistake?

 

[csalvato]

Will you share the idea, so that others can learn from your mistake?

Sure, kind of silly not to...sorry!

It was a lead generation system for surgeons. Surgeons would pay-per-lead generated. So, instead of signing up with a marketing/ad agency for $10k/month or more, they pay $50-$400/lead. Thus, it would remove financial risk in a very risk-averse market.

The laws prohibiting such an arrangement vary from state to state. After speaking with the guy who wrote this article, it turns out that this idea is very illegal in NYS, and can cost doctors their license.

I'm going to see if I can find a state where this IS legal, but the legal overhead for this project will be huge. Any state I delve into would need a numerous consultations/intervention from a state legal professional, most likely.

It can still work in some states most likely, though.

I may be able to circumvent this in all states if I work out a legal revenue model/cost structure...one that isn't tied to patient or referral volume.

For example, if you pay $X/month and I can guarantee X leads/month, but if you get more or less the price structure doesn't change. This may not be unique enough to existing marketing/ad agencies, so I would have a hard time differentiating with this model I think...

 

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[RHL]

Some companies will spend thousands in CPC / click costs, but get really stingy when it comes to paying a specialist or agency on top of their already high click costs.

This, it's like how people, over the course of ten years, will piss away $6,000+ on unused exercise equipment and gym memberships, when six months with a personal trainer and $1,500 would have gotten them better results.

 

[LTL]

Sure, kind of silly not to...sorry!

It was a lead generation system for surgeons. Surgeons would pay-per-lead generated. So, instead of signing up with a marketing/ad agency for $10k/month or more, they pay $50-$400/lead. Thus, it would remove financial risk in a very risk-averse market.

The laws prohibiting such an arrangement vary from state to state. After speaking with the guy who wrote this article, it turns out that this idea is very illegal in NYS, and can cost doctors their license.

I'm going to see if I can find a state where this IS legal, but the legal overhead for this project will be huge. Any state I delve into would need a numerous consultations/intervention from a state legal professional, most likely.

It can still work in some states most likely, though.

I may be able to circumvent this in all states if I work out a legal revenue model/cost structure...one that isn't tied to patient or referral volume.

For example, if you pay $X/month and I can guarantee X leads/month, but if you get more or less the price structure doesn't change. This may not be unique enough to existing marketing/ad agencies, so I would have a hard time differentiating with this model I think...

I might be late on this but ..... there are ways around this if you take ownership in that company instead......
Being a part owner of a practice is more powerful than just "selling leads"

Lawyers are not creative thinkers -at all. You'd have to speak to 100 lawyers and even a few judges before
you got one who can think outside the box.


How you present the idea though is where it takes some skill....

Please give us an update on your endeavors........I really loved how you targeted the high end clients

The only thing missing was a weekly follow up of more packages, voicemails and emails*




*I haven't looked at your material yet but I bet it's gold

 

[csalvato]

I might be late on this but ..... there are ways around this if you take ownership in that company instead......
Being a part owner of a practice is more powerful than just "selling leads"

Lawyers are not creative thinkers -at all. You'd have to speak to 100 lawyers and even a few judges before
you got one who can think outside the box.


How you present the idea though is where it takes some skill....

Please give us an update on your endeavors........I really loved how you targeted the high end clients

The only thing missing was a weekly follow up of more packages, voicemails and emails*




I haven't looked at your material yet but

Old thread.

Maybe this would have worked, but I stopped pursuing this idea shortly after. I am still in the lead gen space, though.

 

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[LTL]

Old thread.

Maybe this would have worked, but I stopped pursuing this idea shortly after. I am still in the lead gen space, though.

No maybes about it.......it would have worked


So who do you sell to now ? and how did you get them as clients ?

 

[csalvato]

No maybes about it.......it would have worked


So who do you sell to now ? and how did you get them as clients ?

I am curious, how do you propose I cold-call my way into a partnership with an established firm/practice?

EDIT: I sell to a big lead buyer in the education space. I created a web property and they contacted me.

 

[LTL]

I am curious, how do you propose I cold-call my way into a partnership with an established firm/practice?

EDIT: I sell to a big lead buyer in the education space. I created a web property and they contacted me.

You can't cold call it- that's a tactic. You need a strategy- there's a difference ....

I know how but frankly it's a lot to cover here* and it seems you've moved on to something else

Just know that what you thought was impossible is possible through taking ownership
and do some research if you are serious.......

 

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[csalvato]

You can't cold call it- that's a tactic. You need a strategy- there's a difference ....

I know how but frankly it's a lot to cover here* and it seems you've moved on to something else

Just know that what you thought was impossible is possible through taking ownership
and do some research if you are serious.......

One big lesson I learned in the past 6 months or so, "being serious" makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for the insights, and the vote of confidence.

 

[LTL]

One big lesson I learned in the past 6 months or so, "being serious" makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for the insights, and the vote of confidence.

you'll figure it out.... i hate giving outlines because id have get into deeper more in depth explanations on how to find owners like that, what to say, how to position yourself, how to get the legal work done for free etc.....


but good luck, i'll probably revive this thread in 6 months or a year to see how far you got

 

[Alan at SE]

My thought is that you have a fairly decent sized email list, why not try to make your personal site a six figure business? No 'clients' to deal with and potentially more freedom.

As for your new idea, its been really common lately to generate local leads and sell them. Some guys in our academy are doing mid to high five figures a month going after the lucrative verticals.

Good luck either way. There's always big money in this service industry!

 

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