If You Work Remote at a Job, Listen To This Advice.

[ZackerySprague]

Not sure if this will provide someone value, but here goes.

Several years ago, when I first joined this forum, I was working remotely at a public traded company for their delivery department for a security software based product. I was remote for 3.5 years even during COVID when it struck the states.

One of the things that I now regret is not taking advantage of this time. I was talking with one of the group members at our last Dallas-Fort Worth meetup. This by no means is for him, this post is for the general populous on this forum.

If you work remotely for someone at a job, take advantage of that time. Have a separate computer beside you with your jobs workstation. Buy an L shape desk at Ikea and a cheap chair. When you are done performing your tasks, work on your business on the side.

This is to a degree is going against the rules, but no means does it mean to ignore your job responsibilities. Keep your job a top priority while you are working on your business.

But if you ever get a chance to work remotely while a job, take advantage of it.

I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.

Working remotely to some degree for some people can make us lazy and not do anything. But that's the time you want to do something and fight the urge of being lazy. That's the time work should be done and ignore the temptations of not doing anything.

I just wanted to pass down some advice to someone who is maybe working remote right now or will.

If I could help someone, this would be one of the advises I'd passed down.

Cheers and Good Luck.

 

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[Jaxsss]

It's not a bad idea, I'm also doing it but really depends on what tasks or what job you are doing. For me I don't have many chances to do both since I need to be fully focused to what I'm doing at my job.

Just to add my two cents, on the other hand, if you have the opportunity to work remotely, travel as much as you can, I gained so much experience through that, met a lot of people that were like minded and also explored the world - all at once.

When travelling, I was more productive compared to my normal life back home. Changing your environment does make a huge difference.

 

[Johnny boy]

I used to manage employees and call customers and take sales calls for my lawn care business, while I worked full time as a car salesman.

Most of the day is doing jack shit so I would wander around the lot on my phone and do deals and run everything and then every once in a while I’d sell a car and make $500 and get back to work.

 

[ZF Lee]

It's not a bad idea, I'm also doing it but really depends on what tasks or what job you are doing. For me I don't have many chances to do both since I need to be fully focused to what I'm doing at my job.

Just to add my two cents, on the other hand, if you have the opportunity to work remotely, travel as much as you can, I gained so much experience through that, met a lot of people that were like minded and also explored the world - all at once.

When travelling, I was more productive compared to my normal life back home. Changing your environment does make a huge difference.

Same for me on the attention-span thing.

So I make do with 'working university' for now.

Wrap up my online client work while listening in on some video course to solve some specific biz problem or upskill.

 

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[random_username]

Not sure if this will provide someone value, but here goes.

Several years ago, when I first joined this forum, I was working remotely at a public traded company for their delivery department for a security software based product. I was remote for 3.5 years even during COVID when it struck the states.

One of the things that I now regret is not taking advantage of this time. I was talking with one of the group members at our last Dallas-Fort Worth meetup. This by no means is for him, this post is for the general populous on this forum.

If you work remotely for someone at a job, take advantage of that time. Have a separate computer beside you with your jobs workstation. Buy an L shape desk at Ikea and a cheap chair. When you are done performing your tasks, work on your business on the side.

This is to a degree is going against the rules, but no means does it mean to ignore your job responsibilities. Keep your job a top priority while you are working on your business.

But if you ever get a chance to work remotely while a job, take advantage of it.

I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.

Working remotely to some degree for some people can make us lazy and not do anything. But that's the time you want to do something and fight the urge of being lazy. That's the time work should be done and ignore the temptations of not doing anything.

I just wanted to pass down some advice to someone who is maybe working remote right now or will.

If I could help someone, this would be one of the advises I'd passed down.

Cheers and Good Luck.

Maybe this is my limiting belief, and maybe this is the reason I'm still not business wise where I want to be, but this is a terrible strategy. Bottom of the keg terrible. I didn't want to reply last night, but today I'm genuinely interested in what more successful people than me think on this topic. Maybe this is something I need to change about my beliefs.

First reason is that your superiors know when you do this. I saw it directly at my last job when people start doing this. It's obvious. I had to fire them promptly.
Second reason is that this a shit thing to do to your peers. They will hate you for being lazy, especially if it starts affecting their workload and stress levels.
Third reason is that world is a small place and people talk. That means that those people will talk around "Oh X is a shitter who jacks off on work", which will definitely at some point affect you. You never know who will become a manager or director of something, and who you will need later in your business.
Fourth reason is that if you start cheating on your job, you will start cheating on your business.
Fifth reason - "I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.". This is a logical fallacy. If you wanted to build a business you would've built it, your job makes no difference to that situation. It's a remote job, you have 8 hours for sleep, 8 hours to work, that leaves you with 8 hours to do whatever you want. What is even a "Fastlane business"?

I don't want to be rude, but this seems like you are giving yourself excuses and playing a victim card. I know, because similar thoughts pop into my head from time to time. And after thinking about it more, I always find at least 10 specific and precise things I could've done differently. None of that is ever "I could've worked on my business while I at was at my job".

 

[ZackerySprague]

I am expressing my regrets, not my limiting beliefs.

1. Not exactly your superiors won't know unless your told them. I am not adovating for you to do be lazy by any means when working your job. I did say to keep it your top priority. This strategy is when you have free time and thr work is done.

2. It will only be a problem with your peers if you don't do your fair share of the workload. Again this will be a "You" thing. You choose to be lazy at this point and if your peers notice it, that's a you problem.

3. People always talk, people will always be critical of you and have an opinion. If your are a lazy worker, then of course they will talk. If you reveal that you are working on a business of course they will talk.

4. You are not cheating on your job, nor are you cheating on the business. This strategy is by no means cheating if you are one of the best employees doing great work. My job technically wasn't "8" hours. It was when my boss needed me to show. I showed up and did a great job at what I did. As long as the work got done, he had no problems. I was never micro managed. Cheating would be finding shortcuts.

5. This was myself express a regret a loss of time wasted, staying comfortable and not building something of value. "What is a fastlane business" implies that you may not of read the books.

I am working/progressing in real life. I don't post about it on the forum. I deleted my progress threads.

 

[random_username]

If you worked for 3 or more years.

I am expressing my regrets, not my limiting be

1. Not exactly your superiors won't know unless your told them. I am not adovating for you to do be lazy by any means when working your job. I did say to keep it your top priority. This strategy is when you have free time and thr work is done.

2. It will only be a problem with your peers if you don't do your fair share of the workload. Again this will be a "You" thing. You choose to be lazy at this point and if your peers notice it, that's a you problem.

3. People always talk, people will always be critical of you and have an opinion. If your are a lazy worker, then of course they will talk. If you reveal that you are working on a business of course they will talk.

4. You are not cheating on your job, nor are you cheating on the business. This strategy is by no means cheating if you are one of the best employees doing great work. My job technically wasn't "8" hours. It was when my boss needed me to show. I showed up and did a great job at what I did. As long as the work got done, he had no problems. I was never micro managed. Cheating would be finding shortcuts.

5. This was myself express a regret a loss of time wasted, staying comfortable and not building something of value. "What is a fastlane business" implies that you may not of read the books.

I am working/progressing in real life. I don't post about it on the forum. I deleted my progress threads.

To be clear, this is not directed at you. This is more directed at all the younger people here who may take this as advice. Especially since I see that people liked that post. I disagree with this completely, and I feel strongly about this. I have no credentials yet that say I'm some super successful businessman, but I do have experience with these situations. I was a first or very early employee in multiple companies during my whole twenties. I've worked exclusively remote my whole life, and I managed people who did the things you are talking about in your post. I saw these things play out in real life, and actually dealt with these situations directly.

1. They will absolutely know. There is absolutely zero percent chance they won't know. Whether they will confront you depends on how conflict averse they are, does the company/country culture tolerate that, how much do they care about their job, how easily can they fire you depending on the law, etc. But they will know, it's just a question when and how will you get informed that they know it. It's painfully obvious when someone is F*cking around and is not in work headspace when you talk to them. It's especially obvious when you talk to people during 1-on-1s, and how concrete in their language they are.

2. Coworkers will talk and think of themselves better than any other coworker for random reasons. If someone is actually not doing their work, that is just ammunition for somebody else. People talk a lot of shit during their 1-on-1s about their coworkers for no particular reason.

3. If the word gets out that you are a type of person who is lazy, you will definitely lose opportunities in the future. When all the CEOs, directors and managers get together, they talk about people. All those people have their own ideas how things should be, some kind of code of conduct. There is always somewhere down the list an expectation that they want to work with people that honor their word. And if you betray that word in their eyes, they will share that between themselves. Depending how small that circle is in your country, that could be a problem. In my country it's a small circle. That could be your future potential business partners, your first customers, investors, mentors or connectors.

4. What is the point of your advice if there are 17 caveats? It's either good and solid advice that requires no caveats and explanations. Again, this is not directed at you specifically, I'm sure you were good at your work. But I don't see how this can apply to majority of the people. And I especially don't see how this will get anyone closer to their actual business goals.

5. Fastlane business is an abstract term used to simplify communication. There is no Fastlane business out there in the wild. There is a big difference between saying "I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years." versus "I could've built my Power BI automation tool that helps SaaS companies track their customer metrics 3 years earlier". Or whatever your business is, you get the point.

I've worked remote my whole life back when I had a job. The little secret of remote work is that trust is the most important thing. If you give other people any reason not to trust you, that relationship is over, and it's best to move on. The same principle applies if you are building a business where you remotely deliver something. Another little secret is that if you are in the office you see people reacting to you, and based on your social intelligence you adjust. There is a feedback loop. If you are working remote, you don't see all the slack messages about you, you don't get invited to 1-on-1s and Google meet calls, you are not in meeting when people discuss these things. If you are lucky, you get a direct person who will talk about it with you, if not, you lose your job and damage your reputation. There is a reason in person team building events are important for remote companies. That's where all these shit get's figured out, otherwise people become stuck in their own little worlds.

I personally managed at least 4 people that absolutely 1000% did this. Not one of them got any of their actual businesses of the ground. They were lazy in their job, and they were lazy in their business. And it's been years at this point. Meanwhile, I saw people who did quality work at their companies, quit their jobs and start their own successful businesses. All of those people were high performers in their jobs. These are highly anecdotal examples, but I've never saw any direct evidence of this ever working in practice, only the opposite.

Again, this is not meant to be rude or directed at you, but I strongly feel that this mindset is terrible. I'm more than ready to change my opinion if someone with a succesful business here has a good argument against it.

 

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[cornishpasty]

I’m currently doing this. It’s funny how quickly you can get your ‘workday’ done when you don’t have to stretch it out for 8 hours

 

[ZackerySprague]

Take it as you will. I've dedicated years of employment at various jobs and have seen great employees let go, also an entire department that I use to work.

I'm saying to still strive to be the best damn employee you could be, but don't ignore your own aspirations and goals. I realized I've wasted time and was just hoping that someone takes this failure and doesn't repeat my mistake.

Corporate America is not very forgiving, but if you have skills you will always find work.

They say regret is a good teacher. Time will move anyway. So it all comes down to a matter if we work on our business or not regardless of how time progress.

My past employers were pleased with my work and my peers said I did a great job.

I've never said to cheat, never cheat. Do the right thing. The goal here wasn't to say "Cheat at your job" for the younger generation. I'm saying be the best employee you can be, but don't let time slip away from you to reach your goals.

Cheers.

 

[Antifragile]

Maybe this is my limiting belief, and maybe this is the reason I'm still not business wise where I want to be, but this is a terrible strategy. Bottom of the keg terrible. I didn't want to reply last night, but today I'm genuinely interested in what more successful people than me think on this topic. Maybe this is something I need to change about my beliefs.

First reason is that your superiors know when you do this. I saw it directly at my last job when people start doing this. It's obvious. I had to fire them promptly.
Second reason is that this a shit thing to do to your peers. They will hate you for being lazy, especially if it starts affecting their workload and stress levels.
Third reason is that world is a small place and people talk. That means that those people will talk around "Oh X is a shitter who jacks off on work", which will definitely at some point affect you. You never know who will become a manager or director of something, and who you will need later in your business.
Fourth reason is that if you start cheating on your job, you will start cheating on your business.
Fifth reason - "I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.". This is a logical fallacy. If you wanted to build a business you would've built it, your job makes no difference to that situation. It's a remote job, you have 8 hours for sleep, 8 hours to work, that leaves you with 8 hours to do whatever you want. What is even a "Fastlane business"?

I don't want to be rude, but this seems like you are giving yourself excuses and playing a victim card. I know, because similar thoughts pop into my head from time to time. And after thinking about it more, I always find at least 10 specific and precise things I could've done differently. None of that is ever "I could've worked on my business while I at was at my job".

How you do one thing is how you do everything.

I’m an employer and give flexibility to my staff to work however and wherever they want. Years ago I was also an employee. My entrepreneurial life has been the ultimate hack - I worked harder than anyone as employee to learn the ropes and then start my own business in the industry.

Now as an employer, you nailed - I know when my staff aren't delivering value and they get fired fast. But that's not even that big of a deal.

The number one (#1) reason this whole thread is SHIT advice is this:

YOU are cheating YOURSELF. You think you are carving out time from your employer, but you aren't. You are trying to multitask - translation, you are going two things poorly. Entrepreneurship is about excellence. You fail at both your job and whatever "business" you think you are building. 3 years later @ZackerySprague you'll be back here posting another thread how you could have and would have...

Stop.

Just stop.

Do the work you got exceptionally well. Finish it. Then you are on your own time - go after building your own thing, side hustle. Uninterrupted. Disciplined. Become excellent at everything you touch and watch the world start helping you.

You don't need an L-Desk and a separate computer! You just need finish the work, stop and start working on your own. Your employer will promote you, and you'll leave anyways.

 

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[ZackerySprague]

How you do one thing is how you do everything.

I’m an employer and give flexibility to my staff to work however and wherever they want. Years ago I was also an employee. My entrepreneurial life has been the ultimate hack - I worked harder than anyone as employee to learn the ropes and then start my own business in the industry.

Now as an employer, you nailed - I know when my staff aren't delivering value and they get fired fast. But that's not even that big of a deal.

The number one (#1) reason this whole thread is SHIT advice is this:

YOU are cheating YOURSELF. You think you are carving out time from your employer, but you aren't. You are trying to multitask - translation, you are going two things poorly. Entrepreneurship is about excellence. You fail at both your job and whatever "business" you think you are building. 3 years later @ZackerySprague you'll be back here posting another thread how you could have and would have...

Stop.

Just stop.

Do the work you got exceptionally well. Finish it. Then you are on your own time - go after building your own thing, side hustle. Uninterrupted. Disciplined. Become excellent at everything you touch and watch the world start helping you.

You don't need an L-Desk and a separate computer! You just need finish the work, stop and start working on your own. Your employer will promote you, and you'll leave anyways.

I already do great job. Most employers were impressed and my peers said I do a great job.

Thank you for the advice Antifragile.

This was from a job from a past time. We all didn't work a full 8 hours when we were remote. But when we worked we did a good job.

I'm not implying to multi-task, but that downtime can be used for something.

It is how someone looks at it. And excellence is always required no matter what you do.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I knew there would be divergent opinions on this topic, and in the right situation it is great advice. In other situations, it is not good advice and lacks integrity.

Like many things in life, "it depends."

I did this when I worked as a chauffeur. Incredible downtime waiting at airports. I used that time to learn programming. I got this job because I knew it had a ton of downtime involved where I can work on my own ventures, in other words, I paid my bills, and advanced on my personal goals.

Brandon Sanderson worked overnight at hotels as a desk clerk and had incredible downtime while waiting for customers to roll in. He used that time to write his best selling books.

Some work security and are stuck at desks doing nothing but glancing at a camera for 8 hours. Instead of swiping IG, perhaps leverage that time better?

I understand the spirit of the post and I think it really depends on the job or the expectations.

Here's a good question to ask if you are treading a gray line of unethical behavior...

If you told your employer you were doing this, would they be OK with it?

Zack, I'm guessing your employer's answer would be NO.

When I chauffeured, the owner didn't care what I did to pass the time in between fares.

When I worked overnight security, my boss didn't care what I did to pass the time, as long as the rounds were made and the door manned. In fact, they recommended you find books to read during shifts (this was pre-internet).

In other words, my employers KNEW about the downtime, and they didn't care I was mentally focused on my own ventures.

 

[NervesOfSteel]

Buy an L shape desk at Ikea and a cheap chair. When you are done performing your tasks, work on your business on the side.

An L-shaped table will probably get you caught as the other end of the table falls within the range of your work laptop's camera. A larger table with 2 laptops side-by-side did the trick for me.

Maybe this is my limiting belief, and maybe this is the reason I'm still not business wise where I want to be, but this is a terrible strategy. Bottom of the keg terrible. I didn't want to reply last night, but today I'm genuinely interested in what more successful people than me think on this topic. Maybe this is something I need to change about my beliefs.

First reason is that your superiors know when you do this. I saw it directly at my last job when people start doing this. It's obvious. I had to fire them promptly.
Second reason is that this a shit thing to do to your peers. They will hate you for being lazy, especially if it starts affecting their workload and stress levels.
Third reason is that world is a small place and people talk. That means that those people will talk around "Oh X is a shitter who jacks off on work", which will definitely at some point affect you. You never know who will become a manager or director of something, and who you will need later in your business.
Fourth reason is that if you start cheating on your job, you will start cheating on your business.
Fifth reason - "I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.". This is a logical fallacy. If you wanted to build a business you would've built it, your job makes no difference to that situation. It's a remote job, you have 8 hours for sleep, 8 hours to work, that leaves you with 8 hours to do whatever you want. What is even a "Fastlane business"?

I don't want to be rude, but this seems like you are giving yourself excuses and playing a victim card. I know, because similar thoughts pop into my head from time to time. And after thinking about it more, I always find at least 10 specific and precise things I could've done differently. None of that is ever "I could've worked on my business while I at was at my job".

How you do one thing is how you do everything.

I’m an employer and give flexibility to my staff to work however and wherever they want. Years ago I was also an employee. My entrepreneurial life has been the ultimate hack - I worked harder than anyone as employee to learn the ropes and then start my own business in the industry.

Now as an employer, you nailed - I know when my staff aren't delivering value and they get fired fast. But that's not even that big of a deal.

The number one (#1) reason this whole thread is SHIT advice is this:

YOU are cheating YOURSELF. You think you are carving out time from your employer, but you aren't. You are trying to multitask - translation, you are going two things poorly. Entrepreneurship is about excellence. You fail at both your job and whatever "business" you think you are building. 3 years later @ZackerySprague you'll be back here posting another thread how you could have and would have...

Stop.

Just stop.

Do the work you got exceptionally well. Finish it. Then you are on your own time - go after building your own thing, side hustle. Uninterrupted. Disciplined. Become excellent at everything you touch and watch the world start helping you.

You don't need an L-Desk and a separate computer! You just need finish the work, stop and start working on your own. Your employer will promote you, and you'll leave anyways.

Hustling is a skill.

 

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[Kevin88660]

Not sure if this will provide someone value, but here goes.

Several years ago, when I first joined this forum, I was working remotely at a public traded company for their delivery department for a security software based product. I was remote for 3.5 years even during COVID when it struck the states.

One of the things that I now regret is not taking advantage of this time. I was talking with one of the group members at our last Dallas-Fort Worth meetup. This by no means is for him, this post is for the general populous on this forum.

If you work remotely for someone at a job, take advantage of that time. Have a separate computer beside you with your jobs workstation. Buy an L shape desk at Ikea and a cheap chair. When you are done performing your tasks, work on your business on the side.

This is to a degree is going against the rules, but no means does it mean to ignore your job responsibilities. Keep your job a top priority while you are working on your business.

But if you ever get a chance to work remotely while a job, take advantage of it.

I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.

Working remotely to some degree for some people can make us lazy and not do anything. But that's the time you want to do something and fight the urge of being lazy. That's the time work should be done and ignore the temptations of not doing anything.

I just wanted to pass down some advice to someone who is maybe working remote right now or will.

If I could help someone, this would be one of the advises I'd passed down.

Cheers and Good Luck.

Personally i wouldn’t try to do two high value task at the same time.

Maybe small things like settling my personal admin.

The best value you can get from a job imo is not squeezing time for yourself.

It is to learn the business fundamental of that trade and industry from an INSIDERS view without reinventing the wheel and burning your own money with your own mistake.

Your own perception decides how much value you brings back home.

The most valuable things are existing systems and templates that other people figured out using years.

A little bit more unethical could be a backup copy of the client contact list.

Go for the biggest fish.

 

[Jon822]

Not sure if this will provide someone value, but here goes.

Several years ago, when I first joined this forum, I was working remotely at a public traded company for their delivery department for a security software based product. I was remote for 3.5 years even during COVID when it struck the states.

One of the things that I now regret is not taking advantage of this time. I was talking with one of the group members at our last Dallas-Fort Worth meetup. This by no means is for him, this post is for the general populous on this forum.

If you work remotely for someone at a job, take advantage of that time. Have a separate computer beside you with your jobs workstation. Buy an L shape desk at Ikea and a cheap chair. When you are done performing your tasks, work on your business on the side.

This is to a degree is going against the rules, but no means does it mean to ignore your job responsibilities. Keep your job a top priority while you are working on your business.

But if you ever get a chance to work remotely while a job, take advantage of it.

I could have built a Fastlane Business for those 3 years while I was employed.

Working remotely to some degree for some people can make us lazy and not do anything. But that's the time you want to do something and fight the urge of being lazy. That's the time work should be done and ignore the temptations of not doing anything.

I just wanted to pass down some advice to someone who is maybe working remote right now or will.

If I could help someone, this would be one of the advises I'd passed down.

Cheers and Good Luck.

I've been in the same boat. Worked 5 hours per week remotely and played video games with the extra time. Complete waste of my time. All I can do is learn from it and not make the same mistakes.

 

[ZackerySprague]

I knew there would be divergent opinions on this topic, and in the right situation it is great advice. In other situations, it is not good advice and lacks integrity.

Like many things in life, "it depends."

I did this when I worked as a chauffeur. Incredible downtime waiting at airports. I used that time to learn programming. I got this job because I knew it had a ton of downtime involved where I can work on my own ventures, in other words, I paid my bills, and advanced on my personal goals.

Brandon Sanderson worked overnight at hotels as a desk clerk and had incredible downtime while waiting for customers to roll in. He used that time to write his best selling books.

Some work security and are stuck at desks doing nothing but glancing at a camera for 8 hours. Instead of swiping IG, perhaps leverage that time better?

I understand the spirit of the post and I think it really depends on the job or the expectations.

Here's a good question to ask if you are treading a gray line of unethical behavior...

If you told your employer you were doing this, would they be OK with it?

Zack, I'm guessing your employer's answer would be NO.

When I chauffeured, the owner didn't care what I did to pass the time in between fares.

When I worked overnight security, my boss didn't care what I did to pass the time, as long as the rounds were made and the door manned. In fact, they recommended you find books to read during shifts (this was pre-internet).

In other words, my employers KNEW about the downtime, and they didn't care I was mentally focused on my own ventures.

One employer knew that I was doing Web Design back in August of 2022. It was called a Conflict of Interest.

I know they didn't like it, but that was when I was hit with a lawsuit of $9,000 dollars.

By any means again. I'm not advocating for any gray area behavior. Tried to mention this many times.

Some employers don't even like the idea of outside employment because it advocates that your job is not enough and will try to fire you anyway.

Most employers will even have you sign documents and explain conflict of interest. So if you express interest theirs still a chance they might want you out. Some documents even stated that you should not have any outside employment of the job or to submit a clause. Of course being the integrity kind of guy that I am. I did submit the clause.

I apologize then if this post wasn't very high value. Didn't mean to cause a commotion.

Was just trying to help. Either way when you're employed and express you have a business outside of work. Some employers don't like it.

 

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[403burnout]

I feel like I'm missing something. In the top post @ZackerySprague says:

no means does it mean to ignore your job responsibilities. Keep your job a top priority while you are working on your business.

Then half the responses are crucifying him as if he's advocating being lazy.

Are we gonna pretend that every job in corporate America take 40 hours a week of locked-in work to do well? There is so much wasted time baked in to office jobs these days.

2 weeks from now is "employee wellness week". My employer is hosting "fun team-building events" like yoga hosted over Zoom for 2 hrs. Sorry not sorry, I'll be camera-off working on my own thing during that time, not crouched in front of my webcam like a weirdo.

Similarly, I worked on my own thing a couple weeks ago during the 2-hr company-wide DEI training where we learned about how racist capitalism is and that the word "efficiency" is a sign of white supremacy.

I've never been fired from a job or had a bad performance review. I don't find it particularly difficult to crush deliverables when others at the company are afraid to use the word "efficiency".

 

[ZackerySprague]

I feel like I'm missing something. In the top post @ZackerySprague says:


Then half the responses are crucifying him as if he's advocating being lazy.

Are we gonna pretend that every job in corporate America take 40 hours a week of locked-in work to do well? There is so much wasted time baked in to office jobs these days.

2 weeks from now is "employee wellness week". My employer is hosting "fun team-building events" like yoga hosted over Zoom for 2 hrs. Sorry not sorry, I'll be camera-off working on my own thing during that time, not crouched in front of my webcam like a weirdo.

Similarly, I worked on my own thing a couple weeks ago during the 2-hr company-wide DEI training where we learned about how racist capitalism is and that the word "efficiency" is a sign of white supremacy.

I've never been fired from a job or had a bad performance review. I don't find it particularly difficult to crush deliverables when others at the company are afraid to use the word "efficiency".

Don't worry man. I'm kinda use to it by now/kinda expect it by now, haha.

 

[Dark Water]

How you do one thing is how you do everything.

I’m an employer and give flexibility to my staff to work however and wherever they want. Years ago I was also an employee. My entrepreneurial life has been the ultimate hack - I worked harder than anyone as employee to learn the ropes and then start my own business in the industry.

Now as an employer, you nailed - I know when my staff aren't delivering value and they get fired fast. But that's not even that big of a deal.

The number one (#1) reason this whole thread is SHIT advice is this:

YOU are cheating YOURSELF. You think you are carving out time from your employer, but you aren't. You are trying to multitask - translation, you are going two things poorly. Entrepreneurship is about excellence. You fail at both your job and whatever "business" you think you are building. 3 years later @ZackerySprague you'll be back here posting another thread how you could have and would have...

Stop.

Just stop.

Do the work you got exceptionally well. Finish it. Then you are on your own time - go after building your own thing, side hustle. Uninterrupted. Disciplined. Become excellent at everything you touch and watch the world start helping you.

You don't need an L-Desk and a separate computer! You just need finish the work, stop and start working on your own. Your employer will promote you, and you'll leave anyways.

This is the kind of logic that leads to no phone policies, remote work shifting back into the office, and strict KPI monitoring. It also leads to employees getting taken advantage of. It might be the perfect mindset as an employer if you intend to extract as much value as possible out of your call center employees. It doesn't hold up as well for more evolved rolls, where there are things like autonomy and creativity in play. The delivery was perfect though, so kudos.

It's also wrapped in a fastlane-flavored tortilla of "excellence" but it's ultimately an appeal to slowlaners that the way into the fastlane is to work harder at their slowlane job. It lacks discernment, specifically around the fact that someone could be capable of driving progress forward for one thing while still having ambitions of their own.

The person already overdelivering and overperforming at their job is going to be hitting diminishing returns. The next step to this flawed logic? Start working overtime, cover your co-workers shifts, pick up Saturdays, and just keep going. You're only at 110%, why aren't you at 120%? Your phone is on 24/7 and you have to take a call halfway through dinner with the wife.

It's the exact situation high performers and motivated people, like those that found their way to this forum, want to avoid.

At the end of the day, if you're as driven and motivated and fastlane inspired as they come, you're not cheating your employer by having a second laptop up. Your other remote coworkers have YouTube up on theirs and someone else is catering to their kids. If you get your shit done, whatever that means as it is unique for each individual and job, no harm no foul. Maybe one person has to hit X amount of KPIs per day, while another one is on an engineering team that has to deliver project-based work monthly. You can overperform but unless you're in a sales job, the rewards are not scaling with the effort.

 

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[Robdavis]

I apologize then if this post wasn't very high value. Didn't mean to cause a commotion.

I think that this is a good thread. If you look at the number of quality replies, then I think that you can conclude that this initial post has added value.

The fact that many of the posters disagree, just gives everyone a chance to check what they believe and experience an opportunity to learn from other contributors. The disagreement isn't a bad thing in itself.

I have become more aware that this idea is highly industry dependent, some industries would be a lot more suited to this mindset than others.

 

[Kevin88660]

Speaking from an employer perspective, if your employee is not mentally exhausted from 9-6 and they can squeeze in extra time on their own, you failed as an employer.

The general rule, as from my own work experience in Singapore, is that employers always have 7-8 man power for a ten men workload. This is always to make it tight but not overwhelming. Because during a recession or slack period you also don’t waste too much money keeping the people. When things go a bit overwhelming either due to demand going up or people quitting, you have to ramp up your hiring quickly or it will be a vicious cycle of people massively quitting.

Keep trainings short and brief so that extra skill learning is done at off-work hours.

You squeeze juices out of the lemon by keeping the pressure on the headcount. If they still get work done (while doing their own $shit) kudos to them. Employers could care less.

 

[Panos Daras]

The 9-5 system is ripe for exploitation. An anachronistic turd of the past.
Exploit it as much as you can for your benefit.
If deliverables are met nobody should care.
Also, 9 hours of being -insert jerking motion here- "on call" are not the same as 9 hours doing Data Analysis and Software Development.
The thing is that owning a business is not a 9-5.
Especially in the beginning, it will be much more.
So keep that in mind.
Thanks, Zachery for sharing your thoughts and getting outside your comfort zone!
Peace.

 

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[Dark Water]

Speaking from an employer perspective, if your employee is not mentally exhausted from 9-6 and they can squeeze in extra time on their own, you failed as an employer.

The general rule, as from my own work experience in Singapore, is that employers always have 7-8 man power for a ten men workload. This is always to make it tight but not overwhelming. Because during a recession or slack period you also don’t waste too much money keeping the people. When things go a bit overwhelming either due to demand going up or people quitting, you have to ramp up your hiring quickly or it will be a vicious cycle of people massively quitting.

Keep trainings short and brief so that extra skill learning is done at off-work hours.

You squeeze juices out of the lemon by keeping the pressure on the headcount. If they still get work done (while doing their own $shit) kudos to them. Employers could care less.

More reason to be fastlane

I don't want my lemon juice squeezed

 

[MJ DeMarco]

I apologize then if this post wasn't very high value. Didn't mean to cause a commotion.

No apology needed. The thread encouraged discussion and there is no clear-cut, definitive answer.

I even agree with the diverging responses which is why, for me, is a classic "it depends" type of situation.

 

[ZackerySprague]

The 9-5 system is ripe for exploitation. An anachronistic turd of the past.
Exploit it as much as you can for your benefit.
If deliverables are met nobody should care.
Also, 9 hours of being -insert jerking motion here- "on call" are not the same as 9 hours doing Data Analysis and Software Development.
The thing is that owning a business is not a 9-5.
Especially in the beginning, it will be much more.
So keep that in mind.
Thanks, Zachery for sharing your thoughts and getting outside your comfort zone!
Peace.

Your welcome.

 

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[johnp]

This is an interesting topic. I built my business to over $10K/mo (got a progress thread on the inside) while employed, here's my take:

- I did it before work. 5am - 7/8am. Almost Everyday. and weekends. I rarely did things during the day while employed. I'm not perfect though. Sometimes I cheat and work on my business or answer a ticket. But I rarely if ever, do any deeper work. That is reserved for mornings and weekends.

- Did it take longer? I guess, but it helped me stay focused on high leverage, high impact activities to get to where I needed to be with my business while growing my cashflow from my job.

- Growth is about consistency over not days, not weeks, not months... but years. And in many cases, for some of us our job is our funding source. I re-invest what I make from my job to hire people to give me more leverage so I can then make more money to someday hit escape velocity. If I start to tank in performance and get fired then it puts everything I'm working on at jeopardy.

-Keeping things separate helped me get creative and forced me to be a better operator.

My view is that you don't need to be working on your business while working on the job. You need other people to be working on parts of your business while your working a job.

For me that's coding.

That's customer support.

That's stuff I can't do or don't want to do.

I'm there to manage it and then dive deep in my free time.

That's the model and that's what worked for me.

With that said, it's situational. I just don't think you have to feel bad or guilty if you're not actively working on your thing at all times. And I also think it's okay to occasionally jump in and handle something that needs to be handled because let's face it, while you're doing a quick task for your business, your coworker is heads down in Tiktok getting their next dopamine hit and probably frying their brain.

 

[BizyDad]

Lazy people gonna be lazy. Doesn't matter if they have a job or not.

The people who could best benefit from these comments are precisely the ones who will benefit the least from it.

In my almost 5 years on the forum I am starting to learn the wisdom of "help those already in motion".

 

[amp0193]

I was a school teacher for 5 years.

I knew of precisely zero other teachers who made any productive use of the 2 free months on their schedule every year.

I spent my 2 months each year hustling together an extra 10-15k, and trying to make a business work and eventually I figured it out.


Another story: I told a friend about VAs and then he paid someone in Phillipines $4 an hour to do 75% of his day job, which was largely consisted of data entry from invoices (which he was being paid surprisingly well for). He would just check the final work, and then use the time saved to look for real estate deals.


As long as you aren't doing something requiring full attention, like industrial assembly, or working fast food... there's probably time in your day you could put to good use, remote or not.

 

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[Fox]

If you have the same excuse two years in a row for not making progress - it definitely isn't the excuse, its you.

Knowledge and advice is everywhere. It is the person that either makes things work or doesn't.

Nothing external is holding you back.

Working remotely to some degree for some people can make us lazy and not do anything.

If your house is on fire - everyone is going to try get out.

Even the lazy people.

So it isn't that some person can't act. It is a different personal standard for when action is required.

You didn't work on your business when you had a remote job because that wasn't your standard.

You didn't have to, so you didn't.

This is how most people live. Waiting for life to dial up the pain to 10/10 before they get off their a$$.

But you can change your standards any time you wish.

You could decide that you will take the actions needed regardless of anything external (good or bad).

In fact, if you can't do this you probably won't hit your goals - as it is the only way to make real progress.

 

[MitchC]

If your plan is to get rich with a business why bother being a squeezed lemon slave with a job where performance matters and you are getting worked to the bone so hard you can’t do anything else

Just pick something like the examples Mj gave

I started my business while working a similar role, most other workers played on their phone and watched YouTube all day, I brought my laptop and went somewhere quiet and worked on business

Had another role where I was able to listen to audiobooks and podcasts all day

Pick an easy job that pays the bills and has enough income to invest in the business, you aren’t trying to make an extra 20-50k a year working like a slave so you can stick it in 401k or lease a bmw, we’re trying to go fastlane

@Antifragile method is fine too if you are using your job to learn the business and plan to save up and quit when you are ready

If you are doing some weird hybrid where you are trying to learn business on the job and also half assing it, then good luck

Either way there’s no excuse not to start a business, I worked on mine after work and I was doing 13 hour days, 7 days straight at work.