Stop wasting time - Choose your advice carefully

[NeoDialectic]

I was reading @Kak 's updated description of his podcast , and it reminded me of a thread I made a while ago on doing business consistent with your personality. Then I started thinking about how there have been some significant rifts and heated debates recently on the forum. A core reason for the disagreements is simply a difference in preferences and values among the titans, as outlined below:

---

Entrepreneurship is an end in itself (It is fulfilling as a value in and of itself)​

This is the category that people like @Kak fall into. Working and doing business is a high value in and of itself. While money is a pleasant by-product, you just like working. Working and building something is immensely fulfilling and nearly irreplaceable as a value. You likely have to fall into this category to reach the upper echelons of business. Elon, Gary V, Cardone, and Steve Jobs fit this category.

Entrepreneurship is strictly a means to an end (achieving some higher value)​

This is probably where most wantrepreneurs start. You are only starting a business because you have calculated that doing so is the only way to achieve the lifestyle you want. You have to force yourself through the movements as you don't particularly like most of the actions involved. You don't want to spend time fixing things, you don't like hiring or managing people, and you would prefer to just do your hobbies or fulfill other values if you could. You would gladly work at Mcdonald's if it made you rich. MJ's books try to inspire the reader to leave this category and onto the next, as you will unlikely last long enough to strike success otherwise.

Entrepreneurship is somewhere in the middle for you (It is enjoyable but can thrive without it)​

I'm pretty sure this category includes @MJ DeMarco himself. This category also includes @fastlane_dad and me. You enjoy entrepreneurship, but it's ultimately serving some higher value, and you could live without it. I got into entrepreneurship to serve my highest value (freedom). I didn't want to work or be pressured by society to do something I didn't want to do.

Now that I no longer need to work, I've found that several aspects of entrepreneurship (building, helping, solving problems) are very fulfilling, so even though I can be doing anything I want, I choose to show up to the office anyways! On the other hand, I decided to travel for two weeks with my family every month this last year. Every time I come back, it blows my mind how two weeks passed, and I didn't even think about business. But I'm also glad to be back. If someone told me I couldn't build any more companies, I would be upset, then move on to some other value like working out, reading, having deep discussions, traveling, etc barely skipping a beat...

---

​

The Point​

Entrepreneurship is an art form, and you would do best following the advice of those that most jive with your motivations and values. The forum benefits from having an assortment of voices for aspiring entrepreneurs to listen to. When taking advice from someone, make sure you are correctly contextualizing the advice. For example, "Do they live the type I lifestyle I want to live?".

I deeply respect the type of people in the "entrepreneurship is an end in itself" category. But it isn't for me. If I try to take that person's advice, you will find me overworked, irritated, and far from fulfilled. Long term, I need more in my life than work. On the other hand, if that person takes my advice, they have been wasting a lot of time not dreaming big enough. Ironically they won't be fulfilled either because they know they aren't performing at their prime.

---

Afterthoughts​

I am curious to see where everyone here is on the spectrum, so I've included a poll in this thread. What are your goals and values? What is the purpose of entrepreneurship for you?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Subsonic]

I was reading @Kak 's updated description of his podcast , and it reminded me of a thread I made a while ago on doing business consistent with your personality. Then I started thinking about how there have been some significant rifts and heated debates recently on the forum. A core reason for the disagreements is simply a difference in preferences and values among the titans, as outlined below:

---

Entrepreneurship is an end in itself (It is fulfilling as a value in and of itself)​

This is the category that people like @Kak fall into. Working and doing business is a high value in and of itself. While money is a pleasant by-product, you just like working. Working and building something is immensely fulfilling and nearly irreplaceable as a value. You likely have to fall into this category to reach the upper echelons of business. Elon, Gary V, Cardone, and Steve Jobs fit this category.

Entrepreneurship is strictly a means to an end (achieving some higher value)​

This is probably where most wantrepreneurs start. You are only starting a business because you have calculated that doing so is the only way to achieve the lifestyle you want. You have to force yourself through the movements as you don't particularly like most of the actions involved. You don't want to spend time fixing things, you don't like hiring or managing people, and you would prefer to just do your hobbies or fulfill other values if you could. You would gladly work at Mcdonald's if it made you rich. MJ's books try to inspire the reader to leave this category and onto the next, as you will unlikely last long enough to strike success otherwise.

Entrepreneurship is somewhere in the middle for you (It is enjoyable but can thrive without it)​

I'm pretty sure this category includes @MJ DeMarco himself. This category also includes @fastlane_dad and me. You enjoy entrepreneurship, but it's ultimately serving some higher value, and you could live without it. I got into entrepreneurship to serve my highest value (freedom). I didn't want to work or be pressured by society to do something I didn't want to do.

Now that I no longer need to work, I've found that several aspects of entrepreneurship (building, helping, solving problems) are very fulfilling, so even though I can be doing anything I want, I choose to show up to the office anyways! On the other hand, I decided to travel for two weeks with my family every month this last year. Every time I come back, it blows my mind how two weeks passed, and I didn't even think about business. But I'm also glad to be back. If someone told me I couldn't build any more companies, I would be upset, then move on to some other value like working out, reading, having deep discussions, traveling, etc barely skipping a beat...

---

​

The Point​

Entrepreneurship is an art form, and you would do best following the advice of those that most jive with your motivations and values. The forum benefits from having an assortment of voices for aspiring entrepreneurs to listen to. When taking advice from someone, make sure you are correctly contextualizing the advice. For example, "Do they live the type I lifestyle I want to live?".

I deeply respect the type of people in the "entrepreneurship is an end in itself" category. But it isn't for me. If I try to take that person's advice, you will find me overworked, irritated, and far from fulfilled. Long term, I need more in my life than work. On the other hand, if that person takes my advice, they have been wasting a lot of time not dreaming big enough. Ironically they won't be fulfilled either because they know they aren't performing at their prime.

---

Afterthoughts​

I am curious to see where everyone here is on the spectrum, so I've included a poll in this thread. What are your goals and values? What is the purpose of entrepreneurship for you?

To me the purpose of entrepreneurship is to develop into the best man possible so I can be the best father possible. It has the most densly pack package of experience one can earn in life.
Its also the only way I could ever hit my escape number of 31.5 Million.

Could I live without it? I dont know as I am far from having that option.
My big goal is to become free and then become a professional musician. At the same time I could imagine being a musician for 6 months and then getting that hunger again to build something.

 

[Mr.Maverick]

Great post! Entrepreneurship is definitely about freedom for me. It also serves my higher values so it feels natural to pursue it

 

[circleme]

I clearly see myself in the 3rd option. My WHY for entrepreneurship is very strongly influenced by the idea of freedom.

Unfortunately, I'm not in your FI-position (yet), but if I were, I probably wouldn't consider the business I'm in now. This sounds a bit absurd since I'm still starting out, but I've decided on a CENTS business and not a Passion business. I am becoming more and more comfortable with the process as time goes on, but already find some parts to be "hate-fulfilling", which leads me to my motivation for option 3:

I would continue to do business, maybe even in the same business niche as the one that made me financially independent. Only this time, only the parts of it that match my passion, since I can afford it financially at this point.

For example, I love teaching and would teach the business model to others interested without monetary ulterior motive. I wouldn't give a damn if there were 100,000 interested people or only 50. The activity itself, however, would have business flair.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Funky Monkey]

I was reading @Kak 's updated description of his podcast , and it reminded me of a thread I made a while ago on doing business consistent with your personality. Then I started thinking about how there have been some significant rifts and heated debates recently on the forum. A core reason for the disagreements is simply a difference in preferences and values among the titans, as outlined below:

---

Entrepreneurship is an end in itself (It is fulfilling as a value in and of itself)​

This is the category that people like @Kak fall into. Working and doing business is a high value in and of itself. While money is a pleasant by-product, you just like working. Working and building something is immensely fulfilling and nearly irreplaceable as a value. You likely have to fall into this category to reach the upper echelons of business. Elon, Gary V, Cardone, and Steve Jobs fit this category.

Entrepreneurship is strictly a means to an end (achieving some higher value)​

This is probably where most wantrepreneurs start. You are only starting a business because you have calculated that doing so is the only way to achieve the lifestyle you want. You have to force yourself through the movements as you don't particularly like most of the actions involved. You don't want to spend time fixing things, you don't like hiring or managing people, and you would prefer to just do your hobbies or fulfill other values if you could. You would gladly work at Mcdonald's if it made you rich. MJ's books try to inspire the reader to leave this category and onto the next, as you will unlikely last long enough to strike success otherwise.

Entrepreneurship is somewhere in the middle for you (It is enjoyable but can thrive without it)​

I'm pretty sure this category includes @MJ DeMarco himself. This category also includes @fastlane_dad and me. You enjoy entrepreneurship, but it's ultimately serving some higher value, and you could live without it. I got into entrepreneurship to serve my highest value (freedom). I didn't want to work or be pressured by society to do something I didn't want to do.

Now that I no longer need to work, I've found that several aspects of entrepreneurship (building, helping, solving problems) are very fulfilling, so even though I can be doing anything I want, I choose to show up to the office anyways! On the other hand, I decided to travel for two weeks with my family every month this last year. Every time I come back, it blows my mind how two weeks passed, and I didn't even think about business. But I'm also glad to be back. If someone told me I couldn't build any more companies, I would be upset, then move on to some other value like working out, reading, having deep discussions, traveling, etc barely skipping a beat...

---

​

The Point​

Entrepreneurship is an art form, and you would do best following the advice of those that most jive with your motivations and values. The forum benefits from having an assortment of voices for aspiring entrepreneurs to listen to. When taking advice from someone, make sure you are correctly contextualizing the advice. For example, "Do they live the type I lifestyle I want to live?".

I deeply respect the type of people in the "entrepreneurship is an end in itself" category. But it isn't for me. If I try to take that person's advice, you will find me overworked, irritated, and far from fulfilled. Long term, I need more in my life than work. On the other hand, if that person takes my advice, they have been wasting a lot of time not dreaming big enough. Ironically they won't be fulfilled either because they know they aren't performing at their prime.

---

Afterthoughts​

I am curious to see where everyone here is on the spectrum, so I've included a poll in this thread. What are your goals and values? What is the purpose of entrepreneurship for you?

I said Entrepreneurship is an end in itself but I will probably take a hitatus in my 30s to knock out my bucket list but then go back. Maybe because I'm so young and impressionable but the more I listen to people with higher networks the more I feel I want to get their not for the money but for the character I can develop and the impact I can bring to the world. I mean what I'm going to do after knocking out my bucket list? Do it again? lol

 

[Xeon]

You would gladly work at Mcdonald's if it made you rich.

If working at McDonald's for 12 hrs a day for the next 4 years can make me truly rich, aka no need to worry at all about money the rest of my life (e.g: buying 2 supercars every week without needing to think about how much they cost), then that is considered fastlane to me and I would gladly take it up.

 

[Kevin88660]

I was reading @Kak 's updated description of his podcast , and it reminded me of a thread I made a while ago on doing business consistent with your personality. Then I started thinking about how there have been some significant rifts and heated debates recently on the forum. A core reason for the disagreements is simply a difference in preferences and values among the titans, as outlined below:

---

Entrepreneurship is an end in itself (It is fulfilling as a value in and of itself)​

This is the category that people like @Kak fall into. Working and doing business is a high value in and of itself. While money is a pleasant by-product, you just like working. Working and building something is immensely fulfilling and nearly irreplaceable as a value. You likely have to fall into this category to reach the upper echelons of business. Elon, Gary V, Cardone, and Steve Jobs fit this category.

Entrepreneurship is strictly a means to an end (achieving some higher value)​

This is probably where most wantrepreneurs start. You are only starting a business because you have calculated that doing so is the only way to achieve the lifestyle you want. You have to force yourself through the movements as you don't particularly like most of the actions involved. You don't want to spend time fixing things, you don't like hiring or managing people, and you would prefer to just do your hobbies or fulfill other values if you could. You would gladly work at Mcdonald's if it made you rich. MJ's books try to inspire the reader to leave this category and onto the next, as you will unlikely last long enough to strike success otherwise.

Entrepreneurship is somewhere in the middle for you (It is enjoyable but can thrive without it)​

I'm pretty sure this category includes @MJ DeMarco himself. This category also includes @fastlane_dad and me. You enjoy entrepreneurship, but it's ultimately serving some higher value, and you could live without it. I got into entrepreneurship to serve my highest value (freedom). I didn't want to work or be pressured by society to do something I didn't want to do.

Now that I no longer need to work, I've found that several aspects of entrepreneurship (building, helping, solving problems) are very fulfilling, so even though I can be doing anything I want, I choose to show up to the office anyways! On the other hand, I decided to travel for two weeks with my family every month this last year. Every time I come back, it blows my mind how two weeks passed, and I didn't even think about business. But I'm also glad to be back. If someone told me I couldn't build any more companies, I would be upset, then move on to some other value like working out, reading, having deep discussions, traveling, etc barely skipping a beat...

---

​

The Point​

Entrepreneurship is an art form, and you would do best following the advice of those that most jive with your motivations and values. The forum benefits from having an assortment of voices for aspiring entrepreneurs to listen to. When taking advice from someone, make sure you are correctly contextualizing the advice. For example, "Do they live the type I lifestyle I want to live?".

I deeply respect the type of people in the "entrepreneurship is an end in itself" category. But it isn't for me. If I try to take that person's advice, you will find me overworked, irritated, and far from fulfilled. Long term, I need more in my life than work. On the other hand, if that person takes my advice, they have been wasting a lot of time not dreaming big enough. Ironically they won't be fulfilled either because they know they aren't performing at their prime.

---

Afterthoughts​

I am curious to see where everyone here is on the spectrum, so I've included a poll in this thread. What are your goals and values? What is the purpose of entrepreneurship for you?

For me, it is more of a means to an end, but there is also some fun element. For obvious reasons, we do not choose businesses or jobs that we hate the most.

Most things in my life are a means to an end. I make decisions based on some quantifiable evidence with some "equations" and projected assumptions.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[MJ DeMarco]

Good take, reminds me a bit of this post:

NOTABLE! - A fundamental question for any entrepreneur: What do I want from my business?

I’ve got a friend that I call a few times a month to see if he’s taken action on his ideas and help him break down any barriers he may have. We’ll talk about what he’s doing and he’ll throw up a bunch of excuses about why he can’t launch yet, albeit it’s been 4 years since he started his...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

[Kak]

The ONLY thing that pushes back on my desire to build everything I possibly can is the fact that it benefits people that hate me, my ability to do this, and profit from it.

I have my “why bother” days, but they are very much outweighed by my desire to be and do all that I can while still enjoying life. It’s not zero sum. It’s not one at the expense of the other. It is living with purpose.

 

[Antifragile]

I deeply respect the type of people in the "entrepreneurship is an end in itself" category. But it isn't for me. If I try to take that person's advice, you will find me overworked, irritated, and far from fulfilled. Long term, I need more in my life than work.

I appreciate the attempt to cleanly divide this complex matter. I do. But life is messy.

For example, when you say "Long term, I need more in my life than work." I interpret it as need to get away from business, because time in business is time not in something else. Yet life isn't zero sum game like that. Meaning that a business at a certain level of maturity provides for the free time and capital to enjoy the lifestyle with family too.

Working isn't all created equal either. There are times when we have cycling "meetings" with great people and deals are made. It's "working" but is it really working? Certainly not in the same sense as most people imagine. Some of these events can take place abroad, like cycling trips with various business partners etc.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[NeoDialectic]

The ONLY thing that pushes back on my desire to build everything I possibly can is the fact that it benefits people that hate me, my ability to do this, and profit from it.

I have my “why bother” days, but they are very much outweighed by my desire to be and do all that I can while still enjoying life. It’s not zero sum. It’s not one at the expense of the other. It is living with purpose.

I agree that it's not zero sum.

I appreciate the attempt to cleanly divide this complex matter. I do. But life is messy.

For example, when you say "Long term, I need more in my life than work." I interpret it as need to get away from business, because time in business is time not in something else. Yet life isn't zero sum game like that. Meaning that a business at a certain level of maturity provides for the free time and capital to enjoy the lifestyle with family too.

Working isn't all created equal either. There are times when we have cycling "meetings" with great people and deals are made. It's "working" but is it really working? Certainly not in the same sense as most people imagine. Some of these events can take place abroad, like cycling trips with various business partners etc.

It's difficult to encompass an entire philosophy in one short post, and I didn't mean to imply that group #1 ONLY thought about work and nothing else. Kyle's hit's the nail on the head when he uses the word purpose. What group #1 was meant to exemplify is people who put "building a business" into the same category of values as family, friends, taking care of yourself, being a good person, etc (values nearly required to live a life with purpose).. So if you were barred from building a business, you would feel as robbed as if someone barred you from having friends.

Whereas for group #3, building a business may be great, but it's not a business itself that is fulfilling. I'll go find other puzzles to solve, other ways to self-improve, and other "games" to play.

 

[Kak]

I have always found this “Jewish View of Retirement” to be quite spot on.

They also account for a massively disproportionate amount of billionaires per capita. Why? Because they live their lives with a different foundation than most everyone else. I personally think it should be pretty much the same protocol for Christians, and it’s sad that we haven’t yet, but I digress.

Those interested, I’m pretty much aligned with this attachment.

 

[ZF Lee]

I personally think it should be pretty much the same protocol for Christians, and it’s sad that we haven’t yet, but I digress.

The reason why we haven't is because we have 'cultural Christians', the same way we have Fastlane wantrapreneurs.

I can talk forever on this...but that's that.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AmazingLarry]

I have always found this “Jewish View of Retirement” to be quite spot on.

They also account for a massively disproportionate amount of billionaires per capita. Why? Because they live their lives with a different foundation than most everyone else. I personally think it should be pretty much the same protocol for Christians, and it’s sad that we haven’t yet, but I digress.

Those interested, I’m pretty much aligned with this attachment.

Man this is so true. When you have a purpose beyond solely aquiring wealth and maximizing your pleasure in life the traditional sense of "retirement" makes no sense

 

[Mr.Maverick]

I'm at a cross roads right now and I just want to say thank you guys for having this discussion. Although I'm just entering entrepreneurship I knew that my "why" would be the thing that would pull me through all the tough times ahead of me.

I’m pretty much aligned

This right here was gold. Thank you @Kak for sharing this. I think the keywords here were foundation and align. Thank you so much for sharing

 

[NeoDialectic]

I have always found this “Jewish View of Retirement” to be quite spot on.

They also account for a massively disproportionate amount of billionaires per capita. Why? Because they live their lives with a different foundation than most everyone else. I personally think it should be pretty much the same protocol for Christians, and it’s sad that we haven’t yet, but I digress.

Those interested, I’m pretty much aligned with this attachment.

I don't want to merge this discussion into the freelancer's thread, but I did want to hear your opinion on a topic that sits in between the two threads.

I may be #3 right now, but when I was starting my "career", I was so motivated to build a business that while I still don't think I was #1, I would look functionally similar to an onlooker.

It feels like if you are a #1, most discussions on this and other forums would basically be useless to you. You would be out there literally doing business and iterating on your mistakes. The usefulness of places like this (outside of socializing) would simply be as a source of facts or maybe connections...."I have a screw and do not know what screwdriver fits this. Can you point me in the right direction?".

I moved and innovated the fastest at a time in my career when I was the least educated, least well read,and least experienced. When I would stop by forums like this it would just be to ask a question or read detailed methods instructions of methods to start businesses. So I would look at threads like my idea gen thread or lex's thread on passive income website.

This brings me to my question....

In a game theory sort of way, don't you think most advice needs to basically be tailored to #3's. So advice that either helps drive their mindset closer to a #1 or helps them act in spite of not being as motivated as a #1.

I know that this is the driving force behind my advice. Good advice like "think bigger" likely falls on deaf ears because the exact people that are prepared to take that on are exactly the ones not listening anyways. While, "take a step in the right direction" could be just tolerable enough for them to do.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

I don't want to merge this discussion into the freelancer's thread, but I did want to hear your opinion on a topic that sits in between the two threads.

I may be #3 right now, but when I was starting my "career", I was so motivated to build a business that while I still don't think I was #1, I would look functionally similar to an onlooker.

It feels like if you are a #1, most discussions on this and other forums would basically be useless to you. You would be out there literally doing business and iterating on your mistakes. The usefulness of places like this (outside of socializing) would simply be as a source of facts or maybe connections...."I have a screw and do not know what screwdriver fits this. Can you point me in the right direction?".

I moved and innovated the fastest at a time in my career when I was the least educated, least well read,and least experienced. When I would stop by forums like this it would just be to ask a question or read detailed methods instructions of methods to start businesses. So I would look at threads like my idea gen thread or lex's thread on passive income website.

This brings me to my question....

In a game theory sort of way, don't you think most advice needs to basically be tailored to #3's. So advice that either helps drive their mindset closer to a #1 or helps them act in spite of not being as motivated as a #1.

I know that this is the driving force behind my advice. Good advice like "think bigger" likely falls on deaf ears because the exact people that are prepared to take that on are exactly the ones not listening anyways. While, "take a step in the right direction" could be just tolerable enough for them to do.

Can you clarify? I’m not sure I understand.

 

[DayIFly]

I don't want to merge this discussion into the freelancer's thread, but I did want to hear your opinion on a topic that sits in between the two threads.

I may be #3 right now, but when I was starting my "career", I was so motivated to build a business that while I still don't think I was #1, I would look functionally similar to an onlooker.

It feels like if you are a #1, most discussions on this and other forums would basically be useless to you. You would be out there literally doing business and iterating on your mistakes. The usefulness of places like this (outside of socializing) would simply be as a source of facts or maybe connections...."I have a screw and do not know what screwdriver fits this. Can you point me in the right direction?".

I moved and innovated the fastest at a time in my career when I was the least educated, least well read,and least experienced. When I would stop by forums like this it would just be to ask a question or read detailed methods instructions of methods to start businesses. So I would look at threads like my idea gen thread or lex's thread on passive income website.

This brings me to my question....

In a game theory sort of way, don't you think most advice needs to basically be tailored to #3's. So advice that either helps drive their mindset closer to a #1 or helps them act in spite of not being as motivated as a #1.

I know that this is the driving force behind my advice. Good advice like "think bigger" likely falls on deaf ears because the exact people that are prepared to take that on are exactly the ones not listening anyways. While, "take a step in the right direction" could be just tolerable enough for them to do.

This is quite interesting. I think it's maybe like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In the sense that you focus on different things throughout time and they kinda build on each other. For example, you could order it in this way: physiological needs, safety needs, love and friendship, esteem and then comes self-actualization. You could put "freedom" in the esteem category, which comes before self-actualization. So if you're goal-oriented, your mind would focus on achieving that and relegate everything else to the back of your mind. Thus the interest would probably shift from practical and current problem-based seeking to more philosophical thinking, trying to find a unifying theory, a big picture, and a real purpose.

 

[Kak]

Can you clarify? I’m not sure I understand.

This is quite interesting. I think it's maybe like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. In the sense that you focus on different things throughout time and they kinda build on each other. For example, you could order it in this way: physiological needs, safety needs, love and friendship, esteem and then comes self-actualization. You could put "freedom" in the esteem category, which comes before self-actualization. So if you're goal-oriented, your mind would focus on achieving that and relegate everything else to the back of your mind. Thus the interest would probably shift from practical and current problem-based seeking to more philosophical thinking, trying to find a unifying theory and a big picture.

I’m no longer “not sure” I’m now sure I don’t understand.

What is with the word salad? Evidently it’s “interesting” word salad though. Ok.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[DayIFly]

I’m no longer “not sure” I’m now sure I don’t understand.

What is with the word salad? Evidently it’s “interesting” word salad though. Ok.

Says the guy who posts obscure texts from the Talmud, lol.

 

[Antifragile]

So if you were barred from building a business, you would feel as robbed as if someone barred you from having friends.

Whereas for group #3, building a business may be great, but it's not a business itself that is fulfilling. I'll go find other puzzles to solve, other ways to self-improve, and other "games" to play.

Imagine you are tired. It's been a long day. You are bagged and ready for well deserved rest. Phone rings, someone calls you about a business deal, really great deal. You have enough money for all your needs, so money isn't the driver here.

Do you get:
A) Energized?
B) Indifferent?
C) Annoyed?

The way you talk, I figure you'll be indifferent.
We are different. I get energized as if it was morning and I just had my coffee.

We just moved offices and I took my wife and kid there this morning. Seeing my face when I talk about our business she said that she thinks I'll be like Jimmy Pattison (local businessman who is over 90 and still goes to his office every day). She is not wrong, I love this "game". Point is, there is no other "game" that's as challenging and fulfilling.

Yet (and you already know) there are other parts to my life that take priority: #1 family, #2 health).

I don't want to merge this discussion into the freelancer's thread, but I did want to hear your opinion on a topic that sits in between the two threads.

I may be #3 right now, but when I was starting my "career", I was so motivated to build a business that while I still don't think I was #1, I would look functionally similar to an onlooker.

It feels like if you are a #1, most discussions on this and other forums would basically be useless to you. You would be out there literally doing business and iterating on your mistakes. The usefulness of places like this (outside of socializing) would simply be as a source of facts or maybe connections...."I have a screw and do not know what screwdriver fits this. Can you point me in the right direction?".

I moved and innovated the fastest at a time in my career when I was the least educated, least well read,and least experienced. When I would stop by forums like this it would just be to ask a question or read detailed methods instructions of methods to start businesses. So I would look at threads like my idea gen thread or lex's thread on passive income website.

This brings me to my question....

In a game theory sort of way, don't you think most advice needs to basically be tailored to #3's. So advice that either helps drive their mindset closer to a #1 or helps them act in spite of not being as motivated as a #1.

I know that this is the driving force behind my advice. Good advice like "think bigger" likely falls on deaf ears because the exact people that are prepared to take that on are exactly the ones not listening anyways. While, "take a step in the right direction" could be just tolerable enough for them to do.

I am confused by this too.

I read your post like that story about a TV Ad warning about the latest string of violence against the homeless sleeping on the streets. Yet all those homeless people who should be watching don't have a TV to see the warning. And your point being, we should give TVs to homeless people. And I am thinking, why not help them find shelter? And you'll say "but they won't listen, they aren't as motivated as the those who have homes"... and ... here we are.




PS waiting on @BizyDad to post a reprimand for "pilling on".

 

[Mr.Maverick]

Since I am at a crossroads.

I think the question that I would ask myself is…

“Do I want to build the next egyptian pyramid(metaphor) that will stand the test of time?”

OR

“Do I want to escape the conventional constraints of the script?”

Your vehicle of choice will matter.

I can see both sides seem to have different priorities. I’m only saying this as someone who is at a crossroads.

Do I want (S)cale or do I want (T)ime from the C.E.N.T.S. framework? (I think this is a key distinguishment )

Option #1 Priorities
If you want a legacy…
(S)cale > (T)ime

Option #3 Priorities
If you want to escape the rat race…
(T)ime > (S)cale

Things might change based on your personal growth but I think the two groups are just prioritizing different things from the C.E.N.T.S. framework.

Therefore picking your business vehicle of choice is going to be important.

I can clearly understand @Kak and @Antifragile side and I have a deep respect for it, BUT my priorities at this stage of my development is obviously #3. Therefore a business vehicle for the sake of (T)ime over (S)cale is going to take priority. A lot of people here are action faking because they can’t tell

1. What kind of entrepreneur am I?
2. What kind of business vehicle should I pick?

helps them act in spite of not being as motivated as a #1.

I think what @NeoDialectic was trying to get at was that compatibility matters. It’s not about who's right or who’s wrong, it's more about what is happening. Why are people even action faking? It is the biggest problem in the forum.

I think some are action faking because they are clearly newbies trying to build pyramids. It sounds cool but I’m not sure I’m the type of entrepreneur compatible with that endeavor.

"take a step in the right direction"

This is true for someone in the action faking dreamprenuer phase. Selling ONE thing is progress.

But who knows I'm just a "slowlaner" and those are my two cents.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kevin88660]

Imagine you are tired. It's been a long day. You are bagged and ready for well deserved rest. Phone rings, someone calls you about a business deal, really great deal. You have enough money for all your needs, so money isn't the driver here.

Do you get:
A) Energized?
B) Indifferent?
C) Annoyed?

The way you talk, I figure you'll be indifferent.
We are different. I get energized as if it was morning and I just had my coffee.

We just moved offices and I took my wife and kid there this morning. Seeing my face when I talk about our business she said that she thinks I'll be like Jimmy Pattison (local businessman who is over 90 and still goes to his office every day). She is not wrong, I love this "game". Point is, there is no other "game" that's as challenging and fulfilling.

Yet (and you already know) there are other parts to my life that take priority: #1 family, #2 health).



I am confused by this too.

I read your post like that story about a TV Ad warning about the latest string of violence against the homeless sleeping on the streets. Yet all those homeless people who should be watching don't have a TV to see the warning. And your point being, we should give TVs to homeless people. And I am thinking, why not help them find shelter? And you'll say "but they won't listen, they aren't as motivated as the those who have homes"... and ... here we are.




PS waiting on @BizyDad to post a reprimand for "pilling on".

I think there is a forgotten category, that people love to hoard wealth and make money for the sake of making money.

Even I have full financial freedom, the prospect of having more opportunity from a phone call will excite me.

In that concept, making money/wealth accumulation is the end, not about what it can buy with. Houses, cars and financial freedom are just end goals.

It is always a mix of purposes for most people, depending what stages they are at right now. As of now as I do not have full financial freedom, I value business and money mostly for their practical purposes.

 

[heavy_industry]

I agree with @Antifragile that life can't be summed up into 3 categories and the lines are blurry.

If we were to further simplify the poll: Why are you an entrepreneur?

1. I do it for its own sake.
2. I do it for the money.
3. I do it for both.

We don't live in a fairy tale, so anyone trying to completely remove money from the equation is naive and idealistic.

And doing things just for money means that you are just a well paid slave. It doesn't matter if you're on the minimum wage flipping burgers or running a billion dollar enterprise. Your life will be equally as miserable if it lacks meaning and purpose.

For me entrepreneurship means one thing: FREEDOM

I don't see it as a career, but rather a way of living.
Being an entrepreneur means that you are in the driver's seat of your life. You get to choose how you spend your time here on earth. You decide what to do next. You can put in 100 hours a week, or leave for a 6 months vacation. Or close the business if that's what you want.

In a healthy economy, money is the byproduct of providing value to the market. The price you have to pay for being successful, is a life dedicated to the pursuit of excellence.

And one of the best thing about entrepreneurship is that you are literarily building the world. You can actually improve things, and make other people's life better.

Even if you manage to improve the world by only .00001%, that's .00001 more than 0.
And infinitely better than doing evil and having a negative impact on the world.

Let's get back to work.

 

[fastlane_dad]

Imagine you are tired. It's been a long day. You are bagged and ready for well deserved rest. Phone rings, someone calls you about a business deal, really great deal. You have enough money for all your needs, so money isn't the driver here.

Do you get:
A) Energized?
B) Indifferent?
C) Annoyed?

The way you talk, I figure you'll be indifferent.
We are different. I get energized as if it was morning and I just had my coffee.

Great way to think about it.

I don't want to speak for @NeoDialectic but I imagine if someone calls ME after a gruesome day (of whatever it was) -- with a business 'deal' - some of the immediate questions that would pop up would be --

1 - What is that deal taking away from my current projects I'm working with (time and money)
2 - What is it taking away from my family (can I still do my monthly 2 week vacations away)
3 - What is this 'great' deal really paying (it better be close to sums of money that is beyond a F*ck yes answer), especially if it's not exactly 100% of what I would want to do for that day/month/year..
4 - How does this great deal work into my current and future plans (does it align with any current passions , hobbies, finances, and family + health obligations and aspirations) - if not, then why is it a great deal?
5 - How long will this take of my time, and the reward for doing so...etc

Maybe you need to define what your definition of this 'great business deal' entails - as we can be arguing definitions here, and perhaps yours is much narrower then mine is. I'd be asking you - great for whom? great for what?

For example, @NeoDialectic calls me after I'm wiped out from a REALLY long day and he told me Lamborghini just called him and they will drop off their entire fleet at his disposal in 15 minutes -- I will light up and will leave my family for the next 5 hours at midnight no questions asked to get some seat time. And then we get to videotape all of it and if Lamborghini likes our footage they will pay us a sum of money. I'm doing this 'deal' here for the Lambos, not the money.

OR another friend scores an all-paid all inclusive trip to DUBAI for 4 nights and he needs another person to tag along - again lighting up like a teenager that's getting his driver's license to tag along. Is this a version of a 'great business deal'?

If what I'm picturing in my head as a 'typical' business deal that's possibly 'great' on some ends -- I'm in camp indifferent, and partially annoyed for disrupting my evening.

To me - I've always been in camp 'I make' my own great business deals. If that means sit in bed all day with myself reading 3 books, taking my family on an extended vacation, driving my Ferrari to pick up lunch (and posting a Tik-Tok reel), or flipping AirBNB rentals instead as I like real estate - then that's almost potentially better than almost anything else that can come my way that day.

Long story short - I think that window of what I would define as a 'really great business deal' is fairly narrow at this point and unlikely out of realm of any phone call I can receive and be respondent to, after a partially tiring day.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Antifragile]

@fastlane_dad

You retired and aren’t working for money. Your exit is well documented and you even shared that it was in the 8 figure range. A good deal is whatever you define it to be.

To me - I've always been in camp 'I make' my own great business deals. If that means sit in bed all day with myself reading 3 books, taking my family on an extended vacation, driving my Ferrari to pick up lunch (and posting a Tik-Tok reel), or flipping AirBNB rentals instead as I like real estate - then that's almost potentially better than almost anything else that can come my way that day.

Not entirely unexpected, but we see business differently.

We both agree that you make your own great deals. Where we go apart a bit is business. Your examples can be done solo, most of the things that excite me can’t. I think that any business that can’t run without me isn’t a business but a job.

Flipping a house can be quite profitable but outside of money, I see nothing exciting about it. Building something that could become an enterprise… on the other hand…

 

[fastlane_dad]

@fastlane_dad

You retired and aren’t working for money. Your exit is well documented and you even shared that it was in the 8 figure range. A good deal is whatever you define it to be.

Yes (I just wanted to point that out that money in the deal would be a very limited factor currently) - and that window of what would define a great 'deal' for me is fairly far out of many bounds where I would entertain that phone call to a realistic extent.

Not entirely unexpected, but we see business differently.

We both agree that you make your own great deals. Where we go apart a bit is business. Your examples can be done solo, most of the things that excite me can’t. I think that any business that can’t run without me isn’t a business but a job.

You hit the nail on the head. While I fully 100% agree that no bridges, 400 unit housing dwellings or chemical factories can be build 'solo' -- I always prefer for more small team or independent work (hence one of the reasons for exiting our business as well) - as the next step moving forward would have required significant increase in man power or else it would slowly start to die.

Flipping a house can be quite profitable but outside of money, I see nothing exciting about it. Building something that could become an enterprise… on the other hand…

That was one example - and the value in that would be actually 'learning' where and how to find deals, learning how to improve the property, learning how to market, etc. So in essence growing in certain skills that I would like to acquire - that I believe will help my growth over time in certain ways (that goes way above and beyond monetary gains).

 

[Antifragile]

Yes (I just wanted to point that out that money in the deal would be a very limited factor currently) - and that window of what would define a great 'deal' for me is fairly far out of many bounds where I would entertain that phone call to a realistic extent.

You hit the nail on the head. While I fully 100% agree that no bridges, 400 unit housing dwellings or chemical factories can be build 'solo' -- I always prefer for more small team or independent work (hence one of the reasons for exiting our business as well) - as the next step moving forward would of required significant increase in man power or else it would slowly start to die.

That was one example - and the value in that would be actually 'learning' where and how to find deals, learning how to improve the property, learning how to market, etc. So in essence growing in certain skills that I would like to acquire - that I believe will help my growth over time in certain ways (that goes way above and beyond monetary gains).

To sum up:

- those who want to create solo entrepreneurship: follow @fastlane_dad and @NeoDialectic (they’ll have better advice)
- those who want to create enterprise businesses, follow @Kak
- nobody follow me, thanks

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Kak]

To sum up:

- those who want to create solo entrepreneurship: follow @fastlane_dad and @NeoDialectic (they’ll have better advice)
- those who want to create enterprise businesses, follow @Kak
- nobody follow me, thanks

Sweet. Glad the turf war is settled.

We are all capable of disagreeing and I don’t plan to change my thoughts on the matter.

 

[BizyDad]

PS waiting on @BizyDad to post a reprimand for "pilling on".

Well well will you look at this...

Peace in the Forum and I didn't even have to weigh in. Don't tell me prayer doesn't work.

Imagine you are tired. It's been a long day. You are bagged and ready for well deserved rest. Phone rings, someone calls you about a business deal, really great deal. You have enough money for all your needs, so money isn't the driver here.

Do you get:
A) Energized?
B) Indifferent?
C) Annoyed?

The way you talk, I figure you'll be indifferent.
We are different. I get energized as if it was morning and I just had my coffee.

We just moved offices and I took my wife and kid there this morning. Seeing my face when I talk about our business she said that she thinks I'll be like Jimmy Pattison (local businessman who is over 90 and still goes to his office every day). She is not wrong, I love this "game". Point is, there is no other "game" that's as challenging and fulfilling.

Yet (and you already know) there are other parts to my life that take priority: #1 family, #2 health).

This is me to a T.

I'm never retiring.

That said, I do have at least one foot in the ND/FLD camp.

I'm like a fine blend, the Bordeaux entrepreneur of the FLF.

To sum up:

- those who want to create solo entrepreneurship: follow @fastlane_dad and @NeoDialectic (they’ll have better advice)
- those who want to create enterprise businesses, follow @Kak
- nobody follow me, thanks

Anybody who wants more FLF followers should go through @heavy_industry 's radical profile pic transformation service*. I signed up and now I get more FLF followers like e.v.e.r.y day. Can't even keep up with my "Thanks for the follow" DM's...

And I was just tryna get six pack abs!

*Results not typical. You may or may not also be required to drop value bombs. Heavy Industry makes no promises of increasing power score, gold reactions, or increased muscles.