The Ukraine War, implications, outcome?

[Guest-5ty5s4]

It’s not looking good. Like @Itizn said, Taiwan is in danger as well.

Xi and Putin are friends. A China and Russia relationship seems likely.

While the west argues over who can use which bathrooms, those countries are rolling tanks through cities and blowing shit up.

 

[Kak]

It is not emotional, it is purely rational. If a terrorist captured one of your kids and asked for a $100,000 reward in exchange for their life, I’d say no. I’d say that if they wish they are free to kill him, but I will NOT, under any circumstances agree to pay them any amount.

I’m mostly staying out of this shitshow, but for the record, I’d rob a bank if I had to in order to pay my family’s ransoms.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

If anyone wonders why The Fastlane Forum has prohibited political discussions on this forum for over 10+ years, this thread is a prime example.

What has come of this thread? Certainly not solutions, clarity, or resolution -- just a bunch of people who have elected to use the ignore function, hence tuning out each other.

 

[MTF]

Honestly guys, why are you so afraid of death and war? Sometimes there does come a time to fight, and you’ve got to fight, even if you die in the process.

With all due respect, only very naive and idealistic teenagers who aren't aware how terrible war and death is can say something like that.

You have only ONE life. Losing your life is the ULTIMATE price. There's no free respawning here.

You're a young, smart, successful guy with your whole life ahead of you. Perhaps you'll lift out of poverty thousands of people around the world through your business endeavors. Perhaps you'll start a nice, big family and your children will become great scientists. Perhaps you'll start a non-profit that will solve a big problem. All of these are worth way more than being yet another casualty of war.

We don't live in a tribalistic, war-mongering world anymore. You get to choose where you want to live and NOBODY should ever be told they should throw away their lives if they can cross a border and live in peace.

Would you really be ready to die today and throw it all away? I think it's very easy to say it when your life isn't in danger.

War is not only death. It's also mangled bodies. Raped women. Children killed in front of you. You killing other people. Others trying to kill you. Never-ending anxiety and fear. Hunger. Destruction. Poverty. Atrocities.

All for what? For an idiotic conflict caused by old men who can't solve their differences like REAL men (and that's not through violence but through dialogue).

That's my big problem with patriotism and why I'm a cosmopolite. People are dying trying to protect an imaginary line on the map because someone brainwashed them it's their "duty" to sacrifice their only life so that politicians can keep enjoying their lives as they argue with each other.

If somebody wants to fight out of their own volition, let them fight. They're free to choose that.

But leave the peaceful people to decide what they want to do with their lives. They have no F*cking obligation to protect a made-up place just because luck decided that's where they were born in that period of history.

keep in mind that 2-3 generations ago, if that was your mentality you’d have been deemed a coward and a traitor by your nation.

And 2-3 generations ago, if you were an atheist, they would have deemed you the devil. And 2-3 generations ago, if you hit your wife regularly, they would have deemed you a cool guy. And 2-3 generations ago in many Eastern European countries if you were an entrepreneur, they would have deemed you the worst scum on Earth. Who cares how they would judge you?

Were the Jews who fled Europe before World War 2 cowards and traitors? Or should they have all stayed to enjoy with their entire families the abominable atrocities and become yet another wiped out generation?

Is a guy walking at night with his girlfriend a coward and a traitor if he grabs his girlfriend and runs away from a group of thugs? Or should he perhaps stay and be F*cking sliced and diced in front of his girlfriend so that someone can later call him a (dead) hero?

Is a father of a family of four fleeing a war-torn country to set roots elsewhere a coward and traitor? Do you really think that his wife and kids would want him to stay behind and die? Or would they want him to go with them and be an actual father and enjoy their lives in peace somewhere else in the world? It would be selfish of him to put his country (a made-up concept where he was randomly born at that period of time) over his family (real living people who want him alive around them).

I'm sorry but this bullshit about being a coward and a traitor is just idiotic. Your only concern should be your own life and the life of your family. The rest are made-up concepts and cultural brainwashing to convince naive young men it's cool to be a dead hero (while your parents, siblings, partner, children, and friends grieve you their entire lives).

 

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[Fox]

At the start of Covid I saw some clips from China that I believed to be real. It was of people collapsing on the street, having violent seizures etc.

I went into full prepper mode right away and spent around two weeks in a row stocking up on food, medical gear, axes, survival books, tactical flashlights etc.

Since I lived in Poland I feared the worst - if society collapsed I don’t know the local language nor can I blend in.

There were quite a few weeks where I was super paranoid and feared the worst.

Flash forward two years later and we can now see that this was 99% panic and fear with not much based in reality. We know the news was heavily manipulated, we know certain people made obscene profits, and that there were agendas behind a lot of “information”.

My advice for people on this thread is to refrain from getting caught up in the panic.

- Don’t trust either side or any media source. Every media outfit is playing for someone.

- Dont try and see things so black and white. These are complex countries with complex histories. War is nothing new and both sides usually feel they are in the right.

- If you feel compelled to do something - then actually do something. Posting on a business forum is unlikely to have any real impact to anyone who is actually in this situation. Anyone can fly to Poland in a day and go work a week at the border helping people. @MTF had a great post early about donations that sets the example.

- and keep in mind the power of perspective….
> Trump
> the Clinton’s
> Biden
> Trudeau
> Putin
ALL of these leaders have people who absolutely hate them and who absolutely love them. Attacking peoples stance directly doesn’t change any one’s mind.

I think overall that these types of situations are only going to be more common in the years ahead. Use these moments to practice rational thinking and acting within your sphere of control.

 

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[c4n]

@MTF I though you liked Discomfort

 

[MJ DeMarco]

the west has people in cubicles.

Yes, the American economy is now based on treating disease for its obese citizens, issuing insurance, operating real estate, and managing digital assets ... stuff that means nothing in the grand scheme of existence.

Look around... you see nothing but tech centers, dentists, medical centers, insurance agencies, fast-food joints offering fat and grease, and a swath of retail stores filled with cheap Chinese goods ... we produce nothing of real value and consume everything.

 

[MTF]

I apologize for stupidly contributing to the needless conversation on what is right or wrong. I shouldn't have lost my temper. This isn't the place and time for it.

Just got back from a shopping center where I bought food and medical supplies to be sent in a military convoy tomorrow to Ukraine. At 1:30 pm, most shelves with dry goods were already empty. In the pharmacy, the pharmacist already had various supplies set aside that would be most useful. You only needed to tell how much you wanted to contribute and they prepared a medical supply bag for you.

It was heartwarming to see how much was already donated. And that's just one place in one city.

Over 100,000 refugees are already in Poland with thousands more waiting at the border. Both those who are here as well as those left in Ukraine need support.

All refugees can enter the country, even without any documents and even with their pets. Many businesses and organizations offer help. For example, one of the biggest train transport companies in Poland offers free tickets to anyone with an Ukrainian passport. There's even a special train from Ukraine to Poland transporting people who need medical care. Some private hospitals and clinics offer free medical care. Many small businesses offer jobs to people from Ukraine, free services or even temporary shelter. Then there are also individuals offering free transport, a place to stay, etc.

I'm now coordinating gathering clothes, blankets, towels, food and other supplies from friends and family to be donated to the refugees who are already in Poland. Looks like I'll have a full SUV of stuff already.

How You Can Help

If you have no idea what to do, here are a few options:

1. Send money to Ukraine's Armed Forces:

NBU Opens Special Account to Raise Funds for Ukraine’s Armed Forces (updated)

The National Bank of Ukraine has decided to open a special fundraising account to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The central bank’s decision comes after the Ukrainian gove...

bank.gov.ua

2. Support Sunflower of Peace, an organization sending first aid medical tactical backpacks to Ukraine from the US:

Sunflower of Peace | Newton MA

Sunflower of Peace, Newton, Massachusetts. 9,491 likes · 24 talking about this · 32 were here. Sunflower of Peace is a 501(c)(3) non-profit (EIN: 47-2620675), based in Boston, MA.

www.facebook.com

The first shipment to Ukraine is leaving the US on Wed, 03/02/22 so if you act now it'll be there next week saving lives.

3. Donate to the International Rescue Committee to help provide emergency kits, medical care and temporary shelter (they're on the ground in Poland):

Ukrainian families still need you.

The International Rescue Committee helps people caught in the world's worst disasters to survive, recover and regain control of their future.

help.rescue.org

4. Support the Kyiv Independent for independent news and their fight against Russian misinformation:

The Kyiv Independent — News from Ukraine, Eastern Europe

News, analyses, investigations, opinions, podcasts and more. On-the-ground reporting from Ukraine

kyivindependent.com

5. Google "how to help Ukraine" and pick whatever appeals most to you. This isn't about choosing the "right" option, just help however you can.

 

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[Fox]

While I agree with some of these, it's sort of like saying that a girl wearing a mini skirt invited a rapist to rape her.

Well, you have:

- A president who can't string a sentence together
- A prime minister who needs to evoke emergency wartime laws to deal with a little protest
- A Europe that locked itself down to an insane level for two years and mostly cares about climate control

These are not strong, inspiring, intimidating leaders.

Russia and China are playing for keeps.
They can't be cancelled or shamed - you keep them in check with pure strength. Or you don't.

They spotted an opportunity and they took it.
I'm definitely not saying it's right, just that who was there to stop it?

Meanwhile, we are sitting around wondering if a dude can compete in a woman's swimming competition.

 

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[MTF]

Maybe I'm too paranoid but I'm wondering if I should move somewhere else while it's still possible. I'm in Poland which is way too close for comfort.

 

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[AceVentures]

This feels like mass formation all over again.

Don't forget - right before this war broke out, the stink of global corruption around the jab narrative was beginning to gather steam. Our elites have lied and manipulated the global population. Billions of people have been injected with a product with no available safety profile, pushed by fraudulent trial studies, under a false "emergency" pretense.

Most countries are still under a "state of emergency", and our politicians paired with interest groups have been acting lawlessly.

I get it, this is a pivotal moment in history, but be mindful not to fall for the narrative change. Keep your eyes open.

All the Ukraine support I see reminds me of the same foolishness we saw at the beginning of the pandemic when everybody was condemning anybody that dared to speak out against what was happening. Notice how the consensus around the happenings rn are centered around "Support Ukraine, Russia bad evil". This is not by accident. This is a narrative that's being pushed out.

Notice all the "Zelensky is a hero" narratives. Notice how this man most people knew next to nothing about is being praised as some hero. Notice that while this loud voice is echoing support for Ukraine, nation states are taking tax-payer funds to "help ukraine". What does Trudeau or Biden have to do with funding Ukraine? Why are we shoveling billions of dollars into the military complex whilst our own nations are suffering from inflation, stalling economies, and high unemployment?

I don't know who's at fault here, and what we ought to do about it as individuals other than to stay focused on our own problems and not get carried away with narratives. We have serious problems all around the world due to the same people that are now pushing for "democracy". The sheeple pushing for war spending to "defend democracy in Ukraine" need to pay attention to how "defend public health" has been pillaging our nations' coffers for 2 straight years.

To the "defend democracy in Ukraine" group: what do you really know about history, about Ukraine, about geopolitics? Are you sure you're not just echoing what you see on the internet as the prevailing morally "good" opinion?

The fact that the entire mindspace has shifted focus from anything else to "save Ukraine" should be a reminder to you that the internet, media, radio, academia, public health, national organizations, are all echoing the same thing. Ask yourself why.

 

[WestCoast]

I hate to be contrarian but..... why does the US need to get involved at all?

Why do the war drums beat so loudly.
Well, we know why... the military industrial complex is vast.
Afghanistan ended, so, we need a new war?


I don't get it.
I have a Russian wife.
I spent a month in Ukraine last year.

Russia and Ukraine have often been at war.
Why do others need to get involved here in national building?


What am I missing here.
This just seems like another distraction for anyone not nearby.

 

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[biophase]

I was talking to another fastlaner about wealthy people in Ukraine who are now refugees. Imagine the difference between one person who had $1m in real estate and another who had $1m in crypto. One is worth nothing and the other can start a new life in another country. Makes you think about your assets in a totally different way.

 

[Hadrian]

Anyone who has ever played the board game Risk will know that Russia was always going to take Ukraine.

I was in Latvia last week and got to see how complex this buffer region actually is.

The Russian influence is very strong there... From what I saw more people speak Russian than Latvian... the actual young Latvians are leaving as they know the country is a buffer country and wont know any stability caught between Nato and Russia. In the countryside where I was its a harsh existence... few jobs and limited or no government assistance via social welfare or charities... Many miss the Soviets as everyone had jobs and they created food houses for the poor and cultural community centres...

That being said if we don't stand against Russia today, we will fall to China tomorrow, and as a History teacher I believe China represents a greater evil than anything we have seen before whether Nazism, Communism or Zionism.

 

[MTF]

@MTF I though you liked Discomfort

LOL I knew somebody would say something when I wrote the words "too close for comfort."

Liking voluntary discomfort and preferring not to suffer involuntarily in life are two different things, though.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

the West has no balls.

American leadership has no balls. The men are wearing dresses and the military is more worried about political correctness than actual defense or warfare. The American gov doesn't speak for its citizens. The government is its own enttity and we no longer have a representative government, except for the small towns and cities. The larger entities have been taken over by corporations and special interests.

 

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[Kybalion]

Anyone who has ever played the board game Risk will know that Russia was always going to take Ukraine.

I was in Latvia last week and got to see how complex this buffer region actually is.

The Russian influence is very strong there... more people speak Russian than Latvian... the actual young Latvians are leaving as they know the country is a buffer country and wont know any stability caught between Nato and Russia. In the countryside where I was its a harsh existence... no jobs or social welfare or charities or help... they miss the Soviets as everyone had jobs and they created food houses for the poor and cultural community centres... now they have nothing!

That being said if we don't stand against Russia today, we will fall to China tomorrow, and as a History teacher I believe China represents a greater evil than anything we have seen before whether Nazism, Communism or Zionism.

That's an interesting assessment. I don't know any Latvian who misses the Soviets. More people speak Russian than Latvian only in 2 cities (which to be fair are the biggest ones). I come from countryside - from a tiny, tiny city (1k population) and everyone has a job and social welfare is there for those who do not. We have cultural community centres as well. Did you visit the same Latvia that's next to Estonia or are we talking about two different countries?

 

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[Antifragile]

The problem here is that you guys in the West think that Putin is like you.

I think you are brain washed to the point of no return. You are a propaganda machine on this thread with one post after another telling us what you think we think. Lay off the CNN and Fox. Lay off me and stop telling me what you think I think.

Get your head out of your own behind and start thinking for a second.

No one. I repeat, no one here thinks Putin is a nice guy. He is a tyrant. He’s a sociopath. He’s smarter than Biden and you!

But if you can’t even consider the other side’s position and accept that the world has always been shades of grey (vs your black and white propaganda), you’ll be able to engage with people here better.

This had to be said. Hoping for a 1% chance this gets to you.

 

[GPM]

But if you do that, what message are you sending to the terrorists? “Hey, kidnap my family, I’m happy to pay” no? How is that actually defending them? Sure, you may defend this one child or family member, but you put everyone else in grave danger by setting a bad example.

If you got 100% of the people on board then yea this works. Until you manage to get literally everyone on board with "don't pay", all they do is kill your family member and then move on to the next. That is literally what happens.

Oh, and I have had family kidnapped for ransom under threat of death. Horrible things happened to her, but she survived and we have her back. Everyone is a tough guy who knows exactly what they will do, until it actually happens to them and they have to face reality.

 

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[AceVentures]

Why are you guys fighting? What do you hope to accomplish here?

"Be mindful not to side with either team at the chariot races, nor to be a partisan of either side at the gladiator fights. Resist the temptation of listening to slander" - Marcus Aurelius

Remaining a neutral position will allow you to see and learn more. Picking sides will place guards against opposing viewpoints. Your mind will subconsciously steer you towards your biases.

If you've got something insightful to share then by all means go ahead. Then let the audience decide the merit behind the ideas. Avoid pickings fights with one another. This behavior will only steer us away from one other. Keep your cool.

 

[Antifragile]

How come only Black Dragon seems upset about Russia's recent history?

That’s a rather unfair statement. Black Dragon is acting like a lunatic out with a weekend pass promoting nuclear war. He’s claiming to be willing to sacrifice his kids for $100k to teach kidnapers a lesson. Most likely a theoretical statement for him. Because dare you not ask if he actually has kids.

I am upset with Russian actions, with Putin. I have family in Ukraine, and during my call yesterday I could hear the sirens going off to warn people to hide. I feel the pain and stress of this stupid war. But I’m not naive to think that it’s black and white. And I don’t need a nutcase here telling me what I think (another early “favorite” post by Black Dragon).

You can be angry with Putin and acknowledge his position at the same time. If you can’t, brainwashing worked.

That’s why I hate this thread. It’s not educational, it’s garbage that ruins relationships. Hard positions and propaganda posts. I used to follow BD and now he’s on my ignore list.

If you ask me, this thread is just like politics/religion debate now and shouldn’t even be on this forum. Everyone is suddenly a military and history expert.

 

[Guest-5ty5s4]

I’m going to get a lot of flak for this, but this is a moment where I wish Trump was still president, as flawed as he was.

That dude would not mess around. He did crazy stuff and foreign dictators feared and respected him.

He might say something that upsets people in a speech, but he's the kind of guy I'd like in the WH during World War 3, like Churchill was for Britain in World War 2.

 

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[Ocean Man]

Hell, this war is so unnecessary. We’re in the 21st century, have we learned nothing? I wish the people who want this war would be the only ones who are fighting in it.

I have friends and family in Ukraine either trying to survive right now or trying to figure out how to flee.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s a Ukrainian or Russian who died. Families are losing their loved ones and for what greater purpose than to satisfy those not even on the battlefield.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

USD is a world reserve currency. This privilege is only available to the dominant power. Weakness threatens the USA becoming less of a world leader. Loss of reserve currency status would be a devastating issue for the US economy. Think about all that debt that would have to be paid back, it would devalue USD to a nothing.

Worse, we produce nothing of value any longer as anything valuable has been outsourced to other countries.

What economic strength do we have? If you threaten us we will embargo you from ordering Samsung TVs from Walmart, oh wait, we get those from S. Korea!

never heard of Chamberlain

Wow, history knows him as the ultimate groveling appeaser, like the USA is now.

 

[Johnny boy]

I am no geopolitical expert, but...

I don't really see anyone talking about this...

America planted a pro-NATO leader in 2014.

It would be like if China planted a pro-Chinese leader in Puerto rico and they wanted to team up which would lead to china putting military bases there...

We would say "wtf?" And not allow that to happen.

That is what Putin is doing, he is not allowing that to happen. Russia and Ukraine are brothers. He is pulling them back in so he can use it as a buffer against the west and not allow NATO encroachment.

Put a heavy buildup on current NATO countries in case anything happens like a surprise attack (which I highly doubt but it's an insurance policy), let Russia have Ukraine, and stop F*cking with other countries so much. That's what the US should do. It is a surprise to see Putin actually do something, but it still makes total sense.

I will not argue with any of you about this, just fyi.

Eyes are glued to see what 21st century war actually looks like. Fascinating stuff and we are living through some interesting times. I am going to enjoy my current freedoms, keep growing my business, and try to be prepared for bad times. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. We have not yet seen any real death compared to what the 20th century saw.



social media + war = hilarious sign of the times

 

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[Antifragile]

I've been feeling like shit the past two days because I'm constantly looking up the happenings in Ukraine.

How can anyone feel anything other than like shit, with high emotions and tears in eyes? This is a war. War kills people, other humans like us. And for what? For someone's agenda. It's so F*cked. Whether you have relatives in Ukraine or not, it's one of the saddest moment we've had in the world in some time. *sigh...*

 

[Antifragile]

I hate this thread.

 

[Simon Angel]

It appears that the best way to divide people is to have them talk war.

What I find the most mind-boggling, however, is how so many here are so certain they know what's "really" going on and defend their stances vehemently. The truth is, we don't know shit.

The best thing we can do, in my opinion, is to observe:

Ukrainian news and reporters:

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent

https://twitter.com/lapatina_

American war reporter based in Ukraine:

https://twitter.com/nolanwpeterson

Russian news:

Вести.Ru: новости, видео и фото дня

Новости дня от Вести.Ru, интервью, репортажи, фото и видео, новости Москвы и регионов России, новости экономики, погода

www.vesti.ru

RT - Breaking News, Russia News, World News and Video

RT is the first Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

www.rt.com

CNN coverage:

Russia invades Ukraine: Live updates

Russian President Vladimir Putin announced a military operation in Ukraine early Thursday. US President Joe Biden announced new "strong" sanctions on Russia and limitations on exports as he condemned Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Follow here for live news updates from the ground in Ukraine.

edition.cnn.com

/r/CombatFootage (NSFW):

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

These are all the sources I'm following at the moment. If anyone has any other good ones, please share.

 

[Antifragile]

Where in Ukraine did you say they were? Are they safe at the moment, do they have any weapons on hand? I hope they'll be OK and that this is done and over with sooner rather than later.

From what I know, women can leave the country but not men. This means sending your wife/daughter/mother to walk to the border by themselves for kilometers without any protection, which is deterring most families from going through with it.

Line ups to the Polish border are 35 km long (as of yesterday!). The roads have thousands of cars, many out of gas, stranded etc. Supplies for food are difficult to obtain. Local "businessmen" have taken this as opportunity to hoard and re-sell for massive profit.

My family is now consolidated in the West of Ukraine and are safe. Some took 2 days of travel to get there from Kyiv.

Thanks for your concern and for asking. I too hope for a resolution sooner rather than later as I think it'll cost too many lives, it already has.

 

[MoneyDoc]

Man I'm getting tempted to start going all out on the double standards in this thread. Can some of you think before you start posting?

This always happens with a Country that the West is interested in. You get this country-wide 24/7 media poison engine started criticizing the "enemy" and making the West-tied country look like angels. Just stop. The Russian government is bad? The Ukrainian government is JUST AS BAD. Why do I have to keep bringing up the neo-nazi group contracted by the UKRANIAN GOVERNMENT, whom by the way were apart of the National Guard, that committed horrible war crimes? They had no mercy for the MENTALLY DISABLED. But this is fake and it's pure Russian propaganda, right? Boils my blood. "Oh but they're a minority far right group like Proud Boys in the USA!" - since when are minority far right groups part of the National Guard?

MILLIONS of kids died/are dying in Palestine, Gaza, Syria and Iraq, but whatever, West ain't interested in those countries so forget 24/7 media, crypto donations, calling Israel as evil/worse than hitler, calling USA as evil, etc. etc. etc. We'll just make them look like bad guys, call their governments corrupt (in most cases whom are elected in by the West), and call it a day. Let their own people figure out how to clean up the dead bodies of kids.

If you're going to make a post, don't play one side ONLY and ignore the other side. That's not how this world works. Otherwise, you're just a hypocrite and there's nothing wrong with that, but just make your views KNOWN so we avoid pointless dialogue.