You’ll Get Where You Want to Go. Just Refuse to Settle for Mediocrity

[MTF]

Great story @MTF, and really illustrates how I prefer to do things.

I personally think people take getting out of their comfort zone a bit too far. The word comfortable even seems to have negative conotations nowadays. Sometimes we can make better progress while being comfortable. Not everything has to be pushing beyond the limit, or even timed/measured.

When I trained too hard I got injured, which set me back mentally as well as physically. My PBs seemed to come after weeks of consistent training - where I didn't appear to be making progress but instead enjoyed the training sessions and banter with other athletes. Then out would pop a time way faster than I'd run previous.

Similarly, when I rode motorbikes my best experiences came when I focused on being smooth rather than fast. I remember the first time I got my knee down, and how surprised I was because I wasn't even trying to get my knee down that ride.

If we don't enjoy the journey then we only take pleasure in reaching our destination, which seems a shame as the journey is such a big part of the experience.

These are very good examples and something which I'm only beginning to internalize better now. Previously I would push so hard that I would injure myself, have bad experiences, or even create traumas that would forever discourage me from certain things.

And of course, you don't really enjoy the journey that much if you're always pushing for more, never stopping to enjoy your current level.

Last year I wanted to achieve a certain distance while open water swimming. Because I no longer treated swimming as a relaxing activity for recovery but as a workout to get to that certain distance, I no longer enjoyed it that much. It was too much and felt too much like a job. I could only enjoy it again when I had zero agenda and no specific distance to complete each time I went swimming.

It’s almost like the more difficult thing to do is to control the desire to ‘feel’ like you’re working hard and just put in consistent, metered effort.

Because for many people it is harder to go easy than go hard. If you're driven, you want to do as much as you can to improve. But often the fastest and most sustainable improvement comes when you do it slowly (which is too slowly to bear for many people so they do it faster and end up injured, burnt out or worse, setting themselves back).

 

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[Alba.ba]

12 years ago, I was a young dude full of dreams, hoping to make at least a few thousand dollars a month from my business so I could be financially free.

At that point in my life, I had already tried several businesses but nothing worked. Each failure sent me into a deep pit of self-pity, followed by another bout of excitement and inevitably another failure.

Fast forward a few years (documented in my progress thread on the inside), I finally figured out how to stick to one business and eventually achieved my dreams (and then some).

I was driving this morning to one of my favorite forest areas to do a kettlebell workout there. As I passed countless cars of people driving into the city to get to work, I felt immense gratitude that my life is so completely different.

I mean, I was alone in the forest, listening to the birds, throwing around some weight, enjoying the sun and the warm weather. It was an epic morning. What more do you need?

View attachment 49193

I get to choose what I want to do and where and when I do it.

I have the luxury of traveling whenever and wherever I want.

I live by my own schedule (or rather, lack thereof). My calendar is empty, with nowhere particular to be at any specific time.

I only work because I want to make more money but not because I need to make more money. And I have the luxury of choosing a business model that fits my values and my lifestyle, without forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do.

To the young(er) version of me, that would be the definition of heaven on Earth.

The only reason why my life is like that is because I refused to quit, no matter how many times I failed. This forum and @MJ DeMarco's work have been instrumental to my success. To a great extent, I owe my lifestyle to the resources and accountability I was able to get here.

This may sound like a trite reminder, perhaps a cheap self-help platitude but… never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

Gary Halbert's favorite saying was "Nothing is impossible for a man who refuses to listen to reason."

You don’t need that much intellect or “natural” abilities to succeed. Determination is REALLY that magic pill (though it doesn’t work overnight).

Even when I had to borrow money just to be able to pay social security taxes to keep my business (legally) running, I never considered quitting. A day job wasn’t my plan B. There was only one future I envisioned for myself.

Not quitting no matter what is the only way to get where you want to go. And more importantly, it’s REALLY, REALLY worth it.

Each day, I’m still deeply appreciative of the life I’m blessed to live. I'm on vacation every day of my life.

Don’t get me wrong. Financial freedom won’t solve all your problems. My life isn’t perfect. I still deal with other stuff. I still sometimes feel like shit. But overall, I live the way I want to, not the way I had to settle to live. And that’s priceless.

If you’re doubting whether you can make it, I’m here to tell you that yes, you can make it. Perhaps you won’t get there in a year or two. It may take longer than you think. But I have no doubt that if you stick to the path, you’ll eventually get to your destination. And then you’ll look back and thank your younger self for staying determined.

I get the frustration.

I get the endless failures.

I get the embarrassment.

I get the discouragement.

I get the lack of support.

Despite it all, you can still make it. Determination trumps it all.

With this forum, MJ’s books, and Internet access, you have all the resources you need to sculpt your life in any way you desire. Just never stop hammering away until you're happy with your sculpture (and then figure out how to make it even better).

Thanks for this great post. Just wondering how many years of failure did it take for u to start seeing actual results?

 

[Andy Black]

for many people it is harder to go easy than go hard. If you're driven, you want to do as much as you can to improve. But often the fastest and most sustainable improvement comes when you do it slowly (which is too slowly to bear for many people so they do it faster and end up injured, burnt out or worse, setting themselves back).

I did a talking head video about this years ago. Here's the gist of it:

In the first 12 months on a motorbike I was riding like a lunatic, trying to get faster and lower. Then I met an older and wiser biker and the first he asked was "Are you smooth Andy, are you smooth?" It changed my riding instantly. Instead of always trying to get my knee down I was now trying to never put my foot down (which you do when you stop). Now I could trickle up to traffic lights and reach them just as they went green. I'd set off smoothly without stopping.

Business wise, I was taking on clients too fast and growing my team a bit quick. I was getting overwhelmed and starting to get cashflow problems (paying freelancers when some clients were paying later). I spoke to a guy who'd built and sold an agency and he told me "You can go slower than you think."

 

[Andy Black]

12 years ago, I was a young dude full of dreams, hoping to make at least a few thousand dollars a month from my business so I could be financially free.

At that point in my life, I had already tried several businesses but nothing worked. Each failure sent me into a deep pit of self-pity, followed by another bout of excitement and inevitably another failure.

Fast forward a few years (documented in my progress thread on the inside), I finally figured out how to stick to one business and eventually achieved my dreams (and then some).

I was driving this morning to one of my favorite forest areas to do a kettlebell workout there. As I passed countless cars of people driving into the city to get to work, I felt immense gratitude that my life is so completely different.

I mean, I was alone in the forest, listening to the birds, throwing around some weight, enjoying the sun and the warm weather. It was an epic morning. What more do you need?

View attachment 49193

I get to choose what I want to do and where and when I do it.

I have the luxury of traveling whenever and wherever I want.

I live by my own schedule (or rather, lack thereof). My calendar is empty, with nowhere particular to be at any specific time.

I only work because I want to make more money but not because I need to make more money. And I have the luxury of choosing a business model that fits my values and my lifestyle, without forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do.

To the young(er) version of me, that would be the definition of heaven on Earth.

The only reason why my life is like that is because I refused to quit, no matter how many times I failed. This forum and @MJ DeMarco's work have been instrumental to my success. To a great extent, I owe my lifestyle to the resources and accountability I was able to get here.

This may sound like a trite reminder, perhaps a cheap self-help platitude but… never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

Gary Halbert's favorite saying was "Nothing is impossible for a man who refuses to listen to reason."

You don’t need that much intellect or “natural” abilities to succeed. Determination is REALLY that magic pill (though it doesn’t work overnight).

Even when I had to borrow money just to be able to pay social security taxes to keep my business (legally) running, I never considered quitting. A day job wasn’t my plan B. There was only one future I envisioned for myself.

Not quitting no matter what is the only way to get where you want to go. And more importantly, it’s REALLY, REALLY worth it.

Each day, I’m still deeply appreciative of the life I’m blessed to live. I'm on vacation every day of my life.

Don’t get me wrong. Financial freedom won’t solve all your problems. My life isn’t perfect. I still deal with other stuff. I still sometimes feel like shit. But overall, I live the way I want to, not the way I had to settle to live. And that’s priceless.

If you’re doubting whether you can make it, I’m here to tell you that yes, you can make it. Perhaps you won’t get there in a year or two. It may take longer than you think. But I have no doubt that if you stick to the path, you’ll eventually get to your destination. And then you’ll look back and thank your younger self for staying determined.

I get the frustration.

I get the endless failures.

I get the embarrassment.

I get the discouragement.

I get the lack of support.

Despite it all, you can still make it. Determination trumps it all.

With this forum, MJ’s books, and Internet access, you have all the resources you need to sculpt your life in any way you desire. Just never stop hammering away until you're happy with your sculpture (and then figure out how to make it even better).

I only just read the opening post. Yes... you've got to stay in it to win it. Keep chipping away. Act, assess, adjust. Enjoy the journey if you can too.

Also, just so folks don't take this the wrong way:

A day job wasn’t my plan B.

Having a job is OK for some. And getting a job can help many in their journey to never having a job again.

 

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[StrikingViper69]

A few of the posts in this thread remind me of the program Pavel Tsatsouline recommends in Simple & Sinister (a kettlebell training program).

He goes over the simple concept of step loading - increase your weight a bit, then take 4 weeks to get used to it. Then increase the reps a bit, and take 4 weeks to get used to it.

I started applying this to my guitar playing and started seeing consistent gains in my technique that I've been searching for, for over a decade. Rather than constantly trying to go as hard as possible, I increase a bit, and take some time to adjust to it. Rinse and repeat.

From @MTF and @Andy Black 's posts, it sounds like this also applies to growing your business. Grow things a bit, get the hang of managing it, then grow a bit again.

And probably a lot of other things in life.

 

[Andy Black]

I did a talking head video about this years ago. Here's the gist of it:

In the first 12 months on a motorbike I was riding like a lunatic, trying to get faster and lower. Then I met an older and wiser biker and the first he asked was "Are you smooth Andy, are you smooth?" It changed my riding instantly. Instead of always trying to get my knee down I was now trying to never put my foot down (which you do when you stop). Now I could trickle up to traffic lights and reach them just as they went green. I'd set off smoothly without stopping.

Business wise, I was taking on clients too fast and growing my team a bit quick. I was getting overwhelmed and starting to get cashflow problems (paying freelancers when some clients were late payers). I spoke to a guy who'd built and sold an agency and he told me "You can go slower than you think."

Found it. There's a transcription too.

MINDSET - You can go slower than you think

#AndyTalks 028 - You can go slower than you think A ramble along my favourite canal again... I talk about: Vlogging and legacy (@Mike Kavanagh really got me thinking in his thread ... thanks Mike). Riding motor bikes too fast. How changing my goal to "being smooth" helped. How someone advised...

www.thefastlaneforum.com

 

[MTF]

Thanks for this great post. Just wondering how many years of failure did it take for u to start seeing actual results?

It took about 7 years until I launched my most successful business. It was very profitable within about a year and reached its peak about 3 years since I started it.

12 years ago I had been already trying for a few years.

 

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[MTF]

A few of the posts in this thread remind me of the program Pavel Tsatsouline recommends in Simple & Sinister (a kettlebell training program).

He goes over the simple concept of step loading - increase your weight a bit, then take 4 weeks to get used to it. Then increase the reps a bit, and take 4 weeks to get used to it.

I started applying this to my guitar playing and started seeing consistent gains in my technique that I've been searching for, for over a decade. Rather than constantly trying to go as hard as possible, I increase a bit, and take some time to adjust to it. Rinse and repeat.

From @MTF and @Andy Black 's posts, it sounds like this also applies to growing your business. Grow things a bit, get the hang of managing it, then grow a bit again.

And probably a lot of other things in life.

This program got me into kettlebells and it's possible his philosophy influenced my thinking as well.

 

[Tomco]

12 years ago, I was a young dude full of dreams, hoping to make at least a few thousand dollars a month from my business so I could be financially free.

At that point in my life, I had already tried several businesses but nothing worked. Each failure sent me into a deep pit of self-pity, followed by another bout of excitement and inevitably another failure.

Fast forward a few years (documented in my progress thread on the inside), I finally figured out how to stick to one business and eventually achieved my dreams (and then some).

I was driving this morning to one of my favorite forest areas to do a kettlebell workout there. As I passed countless cars of people driving into the city to get to work, I felt immense gratitude that my life is so completely different.

I mean, I was alone in the forest, listening to the birds, throwing around some weight, enjoying the sun and the warm weather. It was an epic morning. What more do you need?

View attachment 49193

I get to choose what I want to do and where and when I do it.

I have the luxury of traveling whenever and wherever I want.

I live by my own schedule (or rather, lack thereof). My calendar is empty, with nowhere particular to be at any specific time.

I only work because I want to make more money but not because I need to make more money. And I have the luxury of choosing a business model that fits my values and my lifestyle, without forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do.

To the young(er) version of me, that would be the definition of heaven on Earth.

The only reason why my life is like that is because I refused to quit, no matter how many times I failed. This forum and @MJ DeMarco's work have been instrumental to my success. To a great extent, I owe my lifestyle to the resources and accountability I was able to get here.

This may sound like a trite reminder, perhaps a cheap self-help platitude but… never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

Gary Halbert's favorite saying was "Nothing is impossible for a man who refuses to listen to reason."

You don’t need that much intellect or “natural” abilities to succeed. Determination is REALLY that magic pill (though it doesn’t work overnight).

Even when I had to borrow money just to be able to pay social security taxes to keep my business (legally) running, I never considered quitting. A day job wasn’t my plan B. There was only one future I envisioned for myself.

Not quitting no matter what is the only way to get where you want to go. And more importantly, it’s REALLY, REALLY worth it.

Each day, I’m still deeply appreciative of the life I’m blessed to live. I'm on vacation every day of my life.

Don’t get me wrong. Financial freedom won’t solve all your problems. My life isn’t perfect. I still deal with other stuff. I still sometimes feel like shit. But overall, I live the way I want to, not the way I had to settle to live. And that’s priceless.

If you’re doubting whether you can make it, I’m here to tell you that yes, you can make it. Perhaps you won’t get there in a year or two. It may take longer than you think. But I have no doubt that if you stick to the path, you’ll eventually get to your destination. And then you’ll look back and thank your younger self for staying determined.

I get the frustration.

I get the endless failures.

I get the embarrassment.

I get the discouragement.

I get the lack of support.

Despite it all, you can still make it. Determination trumps it all.

With this forum, MJ’s books, and Internet access, you have all the resources you need to sculpt your life in any way you desire. Just never stop hammering away until you're happy with your sculpture (and then figure out how to make it even better).

Thank you for the post @MTF as it really resonates with my way of thinking as well.

It's all about progress and pacing isn't it? Talking from past experience, sometimes I feel like I haven't done enough work in a day. So I decide to cram in more stuff to do, leaving me feeling exhausted and negative for the next day.

Instead of pushing myself through extreme discomfort, I followed his "take it easy and enjoy it" approach and it worked.

Slowly came to realize the importance and essence of that approach. Now I set myself a limit, I get there and stop. True, it's not all plain sailing from there, but I feel that I'm slowly adjusting myself on the right path. As you said, once you're determined, your actions allign with your goals. Hiccups here and there are just signs that your system needs improving.

Again, thank you for posting this message @MTF !

 

[Vasudev Soni]

12 years ago, I was a young dude full of dreams, hoping to make at least a few thousand dollars a month from my business so I could be financially free.

At that point in my life, I had already tried several businesses but nothing worked. Each failure sent me into a deep pit of self-pity, followed by another bout of excitement and inevitably another failure.

Fast forward a few years (documented in my progress thread on the inside), I finally figured out how to stick to one business and eventually achieved my dreams (and then some).

I was driving this morning to one of my favorite forest areas to do a kettlebell workout there. As I passed countless cars of people driving into the city to get to work, I felt immense gratitude that my life is so completely different.

I mean, I was alone in the forest, listening to the birds, throwing around some weight, enjoying the sun and the warm weather. It was an epic morning. What more do you need?

View attachment 49193

I get to choose what I want to do and where and when I do it.

I have the luxury of traveling whenever and wherever I want.

I live by my own schedule (or rather, lack thereof). My calendar is empty, with nowhere particular to be at any specific time.

I only work because I want to make more money but not because I need to make more money. And I have the luxury of choosing a business model that fits my values and my lifestyle, without forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do.

To the young(er) version of me, that would be the definition of heaven on Earth.

The only reason why my life is like that is because I refused to quit, no matter how many times I failed. This forum and @MJ DeMarco's work have been instrumental to my success. To a great extent, I owe my lifestyle to the resources and accountability I was able to get here.

This may sound like a trite reminder, perhaps a cheap self-help platitude but… never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

Gary Halbert's favorite saying was "Nothing is impossible for a man who refuses to listen to reason."

You don’t need that much intellect or “natural” abilities to succeed. Determination is REALLY that magic pill (though it doesn’t work overnight).

Even when I had to borrow money just to be able to pay social security taxes to keep my business (legally) running, I never considered quitting. A day job wasn’t my plan B. There was only one future I envisioned for myself.

Not quitting no matter what is the only way to get where you want to go. And more importantly, it’s REALLY, REALLY worth it.

Each day, I’m still deeply appreciative of the life I’m blessed to live. I'm on vacation every day of my life.

Don’t get me wrong. Financial freedom won’t solve all your problems. My life isn’t perfect. I still deal with other stuff. I still sometimes feel like shit. But overall, I live the way I want to, not the way I had to settle to live. And that’s priceless.

If you’re doubting whether you can make it, I’m here to tell you that yes, you can make it. Perhaps you won’t get there in a year or two. It may take longer than you think. But I have no doubt that if you stick to the path, you’ll eventually get to your destination. And then you’ll look back and thank your younger self for staying determined.

I get the frustration.

I get the endless failures.

I get the embarrassment.

I get the discouragement.

I get the lack of support.

Despite it all, you can still make it. Determination trumps it all.

With this forum, MJ’s books, and Internet access, you have all the resources you need to sculpt your life in any way you desire. Just never stop hammering away until you're happy with your sculpture (and then figure out how to make it even better).

Thank you for this awesome advice.
Will also check out your progress thread.

 

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[NeoDialectic]

Great thread! @fastlane_dad and I have spent countless hours trying to figure out what most successful people have in common. The only common ground we found is the desire to succeed and persistence. That's it.

I 100% treat business as a vehicle for freedom. I'm not the type of an entrepreneur who loves business so much they want to do it every day even if they make no money from it.

A few years ago I thought I was a "true' entrepreneur but then I realized I can feel great only having non-business pursuits in my life (I tested it between January and May when I barely worked while traveling).

It's funny you mention this. You've been gone for a little bit and during that time there were a few heated discussions that culminated in me making THIS thread.

I like entrepreneurship, I'm good at it, and doing it is fulfilling. But just like you say, it's not a requirement in my life and can be substituted with something else. This last year, I've spent half my time on trips before my oldest starts kindergarten. Every time I come back, it blows my mind how I barely thought about business while out. I knew it could be substituted, but just the ease of which it slips my mind after a week or two is crazy. Luckily, when I return, I'm happy to be back too!

I used to love Goggins's approach but I've changed my mind. Earlier this year I met a very capable and super chill freediver who taught me how to achieve more while struggling way less. Instead of pushing through discomfort and pain, he taught me how to enjoy what I'm doing and within that, slowly push my limits while always feeling good.

Because of his guidance, I was able to turn from a freediver who struggled to comfortably dive more than a few meters to a diver who can very comfortably dive 20 meters (I'm slowly working on my goal to be able to dive at least 40 meters).

Instead of pushing myself through extreme discomfort, I followed his "take it easy and enjoy it" approach and it worked.

Now I take this approach in other aspects of my life as well. It's way more sustainable and more importantly, way healthier physically and mentally. I used to destroy my ears with every freediving session. Now I can dive four days in a row and still be fine. Same goes for other stuff, including business.

This has been a heated and unresolved topic in my head for some time now. I don't think there is much disagreement here on whether it is a good thing to push so hard it leads to constant injury. But optimal short/medium-term progress generally happens at a spot much past "comfortable". I think the hiccup is that life is long. Long-term progress depends on time spent progressing more than any other factor. Little else matters if your actions put you "out of the game". Compound interest is insanely powerful.

But I'm honestly not sure if the long term chill approach is better.... I guess a good question is "Better for what?". For enjoyment out of every single day. Probably. Better at achieving my near-term goal, nope. Better at achieving long-term goals, maybe.

The times in my life that I've progressed the fastest in anything is when I would be laser-focused and extremely driven. With no regards to comfort.

As I've gotten older, I have taken a much more long-term approach to things and accept slow progress for "comfort" (sanity?). The plan is to stay the path for longer and accomplish what I set out to do through slow but consistent compound interest.

On the other hand, powering through difficult things less often has made me less able and willing to power through difficult things. Surely the ability to do so is a benefit in many areas of life. So I'm also not sure if this idea of enjoying the process is "right" or if its an adaptation to current realities. It's probably no accident that this "wisdom" comes with age and everything that usually entails (lower recovery, lower testosterone, changing life philosophies and goals, etc).

Lifting weights is the most straightforward example of this for me. For the first 15 years of my adult life, my lifting schedule was always pedal to the metal or nothing. The longest time I kept this up for was ~3 years, during which I was always in a state of recovery. It was HARD, and I wish I could say it didn't work. But it was also when I peaked at very respectable strength numbers that most people never achieve (not saying much, considering most people don't lift weights). Now that I'm back on lifting weights, I've taken the "enlightened" slower, more enjoyable approach. 6 months later and I'm WAAAAAAAY weaker than I would have been if I worked out as hard as before. It's even worse if you consider that I should have muscle memory working on my side! But it is still probably the best option because I would be EVEN weaker if I weren't working out at all. I guess we will talk in a few years. Hopefully, I eventually surpass my old numbers and keep going to new heights.......But I'm not sure if "take it easy and enjoy the process instead of pushing so hard", would have been good advice to my younger self. It may have put out the very fire that drove me.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

The point is that you NEVER want to have a bad experience (something that Goggins wouldn't agree with) as that would scar your mind and hinder your progress. By taking it very slowly and in a relaxed way, you keep building positive associations only. This way, you consistently progress while enjoying the process.

I feel this is the basic “habit-building” philosophy @MTF . Both BJ Fogg via Tiny Habits and James Clear via Atomic Habits say much the same thing. Start small, start easy, let it grow naturally and you’ll find it easier to stick to and make it become a habit.

Not necessarily the philosophy that I agree with, because I think it fails to train your ability to do hard things, meaning that over time, you become less able to endure doing difficult things if you have to.

 

[MTF]

It's funny you mention this. You've been gone for a little bit and during that time there were a few heated discussions that culminated in me making THIS thread.

I like entrepreneurship, I'm good at it, and doing it is fulfilling. But just like you say, it's not a requirement in my life and can be substituted with something else. This last year, I've spent half my time on trips before my oldest starts kindergarten. Every time I come back, it blows my mind how I barely thought about business while out. I knew it could be substituted, but just the ease of which it slips my mind after a week or two is crazy. Luckily, when I return, I'm happy to be back too!

Thanks for linking to that thread. I skimmed through the first page and couldn't continue lol. My patience for heated discussions is no longer there.

As for entrepreneurship, this is me as well. I really thought I'm this pure entrepreneur at heart. And while I like business, talking about it, reading about it, etc. I'm no true entrepreneur. I've never had and never will have a proper business with an office and employees. It would kill me just as much as having a regular job.

I have zero interest whatsoever in any of the typical topics for true businesspeople like HR, business development, dealing with investors, etc. Hell, I don't even understand most of this stuff to be able to hold a conversation.

I'm happy to work on my site when I don't have anything more interesting to do but these days I prioritize health/enjoyment over business. And I feel good about it. Perhaps I'm getting old haha.

This has been a heated and unresolved topic in my head for some time now. I don't think there is much disagreement here on whether it is a good thing to push so hard it leads to constant injury. But optimal short/medium-term progress generally happens at a spot much past "comfortable". I think the hiccup is that life is long. Long-term progress depends on time spent progressing more than any other factor. Little else matters if your actions put you "out of the game". Compound interest is insanely powerful.

We may have different definitions of comfort. I'm not saying to do things that are easy for you. I'm saying to do things that challenge you but in a way that's still enjoyable or that you're still in control. Ultimately, for most people this is the only way to ensure that you'll keep doing a given thing in the long term (unless you have a deeper drive beyond it, as is the case with building a business just to achieve freedom).

As for the definition of comfortable...

For example, if my current deepest dive in which I can relax/have control is 20 meters, then I'll stay around this depth until I dial it in. This isn't a truly comfortable area for me where I have zero stress as is the case with, say, 5 meters. When I come back from a 20 meter dive, my mind does give me doubts and I have to actively relax. But the point is that I still CAN observe my mind, relax, and finish the dive feeling good.

Trying to go for, say, 25 meters, would destroy my progress because I'd definitely have a terrible experience, if not a blackout. This, to me, would be going well past the "comfortably uncomfortable" level. This is what Goggins does repeatedly. Because his mind works in a very special way, perhaps it works for him. But for any average person, particularly without the traumas that he has, it would quickly put an end to any interest to keep pushing. A normal human mind can't take this much suffering every day and want more. You need to have some self-destructive tendencies and maybe even acceptance that you'll die young (or disabled) if you want to keep doing that.

Now going to the opposite end, me repeatedly diving 5 meters wouldn't produce much adaptation, either (unless I would do hangs at this depth or dive on an exhale but that's beyond the point). At this level, I'm so comfortable I can do this with zero preparation and while thinking about something different. Perhaps this is what you have in mind when I say "comfortable" but that's not exactly what I have in mind.

The times in my life that I've progressed the fastest in anything is when I would be laser-focused and extremely driven. With no regards to comfort.

You my be laser-focused and extremely driven but still comfortable. I was laser-focused and extremely driven when working on my self-publishing business the first couple of years. And it worked. But I wouldn't say I was suffering and was deeply uncomfortable. I rarely wrote more than a few hours a day. Despite that, or perhaps because of that, I was able to keep going for years (though I did have one burnout after writing too much for three months straight).

But I'm honestly not sure if the long term chill approach is better.... I guess a good question is "Better for what?". For enjoyment out of every single day. Probably. Better at achieving my near-term goal, nope. Better at achieving long-term goals, maybe.

This comes down to personal values but I would still say that consistency trumps intensity. And it definitely does in the case of any skill-building.

Firas Zahabi, the coach of the greatest MMA fighter in history (Georges St-Pierre) talks about this in his interview with Joe Rogan:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbCcWyYthQ


Long story short and paraphrasing, he says that if you go hard for two hours on, say, Monday, you won't be able to go hard again until Thursday. In the end, you'll only have four hours of practice a week. Meanwhile, a guy who goes easy can do it every day for say, 1-1.5 hours. In the end, assuming 5 days of training, he'll have 5-7.5 hours of practice compared to that "go hard" dude.

Assuming no injury in the case of the first guy (which is super likely), over a year the second guy will have up to twice as much practice without ever burning himself out.

If it worked for GSP, then I guess there's at least some value in this.

So I'm also not sure if this idea of enjoying the process is "right" or if its an adaptation to current realities. It's probably no accident that this "wisdom" comes with age and everything that usually entails (lower recovery, lower testosterone, changing life philosophies and goals, etc).

Well this may be the case. But when you look at life, you get at most 10-15 peak years of fitness when you almost don't have to worry about recovery and can push as hard as you can. After that, "easy mode" is gone and for the rest of your life (and that may be 50+ years) you'll have to deal with limitations. So IMO it's better to develop a smart approach as soon as possible rather than rely on pure brawn.

Lifting weights is the most straightforward example of this for me. For the first 15 years of my adult life, my lifting schedule was always pedal to the metal or nothing. The longest time I kept this up for was ~3 years, during which I was always in a state of recovery. It was HARD, and I wish I could say it didn't work. But it was also when I peaked at very respectable strength numbers that most people never achieve (not saying much, considering most people don't lift weights). Now that I'm back on lifting weights, I've taken the "enlightened" slower, more enjoyable approach. 6 months later and I'm WAAAAAAAY weaker than I would have been if I worked out as hard as before. It's even worse if you consider that I should have muscle memory working on my side! But it is still probably the best option because I would be EVEN weaker if I weren't working out at all. I guess we will talk in a few years. Hopefully, I eventually surpass my old numbers and keep going to new heights.......But I'm not sure if "take it easy and enjoy the process instead of pushing so hard", would have been good advice to my younger self. It may have put out the very fire that drove me.

It has more to do with your age than being sustainable. Things just don't go as fast when you're older, regardless of your approach (though the pedal to the metal approach is unrealistic for most men over 35-40). I don't think you can compare your results today to your results so many years ago. You have a different body with different abilities (unfortunately in some cases naturally deteriorated ones).

At your younger age, I wouldn't be surprised to see better results with the slower approach as you would give the body more time to recover. Fresher, you'd probably lift even more in the end. But I'm no coach so I may be wrong.

 

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[MTF]

Not necessarily the philosophy that I agree with, because I think it fails to train your ability to do hard things, meaning that over time, you become less able to endure doing difficult things if you have to.

This is another case of consistency over intensity. If every day I do little things that are uncomfortable and another guy does super intense things but only a few times a month, who's more used to enduring difficult things in the end?

You may argue that it's the second guy but this depends on how we see endurance. If we see it as being able to consistently tolerate small loads of "discomfort" (say daily showing up to train sensibly) rather than huge bone-crushing loads of discomfort (Goggins style, usually with a hospital stay included), then you'll get more from the former.

This absolutely works in the case of dealing with fears. Skydiving two times did nothing to help me with my fear of heights. In fact, it created profound trauma (due to a terrible experience with my "instructors"). It was definitely in the "super intense" camp but it actually set me back.

Meanwhile, rock climbing over multiple years, slowly climbing harder routes, falling more, and eventually doing multi-pitch climbing on cliffs up to 200 meters did assuage my fear of heights to a much greater extent. Why? Because I was consistently getting it in small doses but very rarely (barring some sketchy situations) in a way that would provoke panic or make me lose coolheadedness.

Same goes for things like fasting. I've been fasting every day for 10+ years for at least 16, but usually 18-20 hours a day. I do occasional multi-day fasts of up to 3 days but I'd argue that it's my daily state of fasting that has made me more capable at handling hunger than these rare more challenging fasts.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Skydiving two times did nothing to help me with my fear of heights. In fact, it created profound trauma (due to a terrible experience with my "instructors"). It was definitely in the "super intense" camp but it actually set me back.

Wow, did you post that story at the forum? If so, can you link?

 

[Albert KOUADJA]

I really liked your article. thank you very much, it was very enduring your journey.

The most important thing is never to resign yourself, you can stagnate like torture without stopping. Everything will stop the day you replace this voice: "I can do it, yes I can also succeed" with this one: "the others were lucky, they are smarter(intelligents), they are geniuses... ".

But I can say with certainty that no one is smarter than anyone. We are all intelligent but in different ways. Everyone is specially intelligent in one area. And it's when you can't identify that area that you find you're less intelligent.

Even if you are not good at something, it is possible to become so with repeated practice.

 

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[MTF]

Wow, did you post that story at the forum? If so, can you link?

I briefly mentioned it somewhere years ago. But I'll write the full story now since you're asking.

I signed up for a skydiving course to jump by myself (not a tandem jump as I felt this wouldn't challenge me enough: big mistake). They recommended doing static line jumps instead of a proper free fall jump as that was supposedly a better way to learn.

I had two days of theory with only one other student. I didn't know it back then but the school was a joke when it comes to preparing students for real world skydiving. For example, to train how to land we jumped off a step. This was completely useless later on (more on that later). I know that in professional schools and in the army they have proper simulators, harnesses, pulleys, and other stuff to help you dial it down before doing it for the first time..

The day of the jumps came. I was to do three jumps. I assumed just the two of us would do the jumps with my instructor in the plane but nope. I arrived and there was a group of other people already there (a mix of less and more experienced skydivers jumping from different altitudes and performing different tasks).

After a long wait before a nearby commercial airport cleared our plane to take off (there was a small private airport and a larger commercial airport right on the other side of the fence) I was ushered to an old, tiny plane that belonged more to the museum than as an actual aircraft in which you fly.

But despite the size of the plane, they squeezed about 15 of us inside, sitting on a bare dirty floor against each other, one guy between my legs and I leaning on another guy behind me. You could get claustrophobia just sitting there. Nobody told me that this was how it was going to look.

I was shitting bricks by then, and when I'm recounting this, I'm shitting bricks again. This wasn't just outside of my comfort zone. It was in another F*cking galaxy outside of my comfort zone.

My instructor wasn't jumping with us and we went with another instructor guy who gave us some final quick instructions and proceeded to deal with other people.

It was my first jump, I was super scared and I needed some personal attention but there were simply too many people and I guess too little empathy from my "instructors" (more on that also later). There was also no way to communicate with anyone on the ground in case I needed guidance while flying (more on that later as well).

The plane begins to take off, we slowly gain altitude and check this: the instructor opens the door and I see a F*cking void outside as the wind roars and the plane rattles. It dawned on me this door was my only way out.

I was NOT prepared to sit in a tight plane with the doors wide open, staring outside but trying not to psych myself the F*ck out. Nobody told me that it would look like that. I expected the doors would open right before our jumps.

This was pure torture as you couldn't NOT look outside as everything got smaller and your brain tried to process this was your way out.

As we (miserably slowly) gained altitude I was verging on a panic attack because I knew that in a moment, the instructor would tell me to get up and leave the premises straight into the F*cking abyss below.

This was NOT how I imagined my first jump to be. I expected a small airplane, just the newbie students and the instructor showing empathy and helping calm down nerves. But I was left completely alone, considering whether the embarrassment of staying on the plane would be worth it more than the risk of the jump.

The moment came and the instructor called me and the other guy. The other guy was heavier so he told him to jump first. I somehow managed to stay cool enough to stand by the door without shitting my pants as the student was sucked out and disappeared underneath the plane.

I remembered the instructions they gave me (look at the airplane as you fall, count 121, 122, 123) and having confirmed several times that it was my time to go, I jumped, hoping my line was indeed attached to the airplane and would deploy my parachute.



I did NOT expect the chaos that ensued as I was falling. I don't really remember what happened other than the moment the parachute thankfully opened. I remembered all the instructions how to make sure it was correctly open, how to steer it, etc.

But I couldn't locate the airport anywhere around and wasn't sure where to go. After some time (too hard to tell how much time passes in such a situation) I figured it out and flew there, not really enjoying the experience as I was too scared of messing up the landing.

I might have thought to myself "And this is this life-changing experience people talk about? It's sure as hell not worth it at all. I get better views and feel way safer climbing."

I finally reached the altitude when I was supposed to make the final turn and prepare for landing. Fun fact here: if you turned below that altitude, it was possible to corkscrew straight into the ground which is exactly what happened with one guy taking a course with that school. As far as I remember, he ended up paralyzed and was running fundraisers online to cover his bills.

Because the instructors believed that using radio communication is for the pussies (like I mentioned before, I had no way to communicate with anyone on the ground in case I had trouble while flying), I had to rely on myself to figure out that final turn without killing myself. Thankfully I somehow managed to do that (incorrectly, as I later learned) and was approaching the ground.

And here's where I realized how idiotic was that state-of-the-art training facility (aka, a step to jump off).

It was impossible to tell how high I was off the ground and I couldn't look at the altimeter because things were moving too fast. I was probably at 20 meters above the ground and it looked like I was about to hit it. So I prepared for landing, about to touch the ground but... nothing. I was still too high off the ground and it took a good few more seconds to finally land. In the meantime, I incorrectly braked (which as far as I remember was what you're supposed to do right before your feet touch the ground, not 20 meters above it).

I was NOT prepared at all for the force with which I would hit the ground. There was no way to do any of that silly landing stuff I was "taught" at the step.

I fell on my side and thankfully didn't break anything. I collected my parachute and went back to the airport where I was greeted with "You F*cked it up" by another instructor with whom I had never spoken before.

He proceeded to berate me for my shitty landing to which I, like a complete pussy, agreed instead of telling him how F*cking unempathetic and shitty of an instructor he was and how much of a joke the whole theory course was. How the F*ck was I supposed to land properly doing it the first time with the most idiotic preparation possible?

I should have quit by then but no, I had to unleash my inner Goggins and keep suffering. It took THREE F*ckING HOURS of waiting because there were other people jumping and then the commercial airport had several flights to deal with.

This is the absolute WORST thing you can do to a guy who had a shitty, frightening experience. The longer you wait after a scary experience to repeat it, the more freaked the F*ck out you are. My heart rate was probably at the maximum all the time as I was waiting for the call to board. The second time was WAY scarier because I knew what to expect.

But to make things worse, as I waited, I chatted with some other guys. One told me he sprained his ankle a few weeks ago while landing. I think someone mentioned breaking an arm. I heard about someone who landed on a tree and ended up paralyzed because she fell of the tree. I might have heard that story of a guy corkscrewing into the ground then. Or maybe it was during the course. I don't remember now. Either way, I heard some cheerful stories to motivate me to jump again. Not.

Long story short, the second jump is similar to the first one other than I'm ten times more frightened and completely drenched in sweat by the time I'm at the door.



I jump out, some lines get twisted but I manage to fix it (what if I didn't know how and had no way to get help because they didn't use radio communication?). I fly a little more relaxed because I spot the airport right away. I'm trying to enjoy the flight more but still think it's really not that big of a deal and not worth the risk.

The moment of landing comes and I yet again F*ck it up, falling yet again and miraculously not breaking anything in my body. Yet again, I go back to the hangar and yet again the guy yells at me that I F*cked it up.

By that time I was done. I told the guy I'm not doing the third jump because it's not worth it to me. There's too little enjoyment and the risk is too high. I was so damn scared and exhausted from all this fear that I just couldn't find it in me to try it again. He proceeds to tell me that it's too early to quit, that I need to do a few dozen jumps and then it'll be fun.

Yeah, no, thanks. I'm pretty sure by that time I would have probably been broken, paralyzed, or dead.

I hate being a quitter. I felt like a complete loser as I left the airport, despite making the right decision. I listened to my gut and nothing bad (physically) happened to me that day. Who knew, that third jump might have killed or injured me considering all the fear, exhaustion and complete loss of confidence.

I relived the trauma before going to sleep for the next few weeks. I recounted every single second of that day, feeling yet again all the terror and embarrassment. I struggled to fall asleep and randomly had panic attacks even when I saw airplanes in the sky. To this day, I feel a little uneasy when taking off even in a big, commercial plane.

Several factors made it a traumatic experience but I would say that it came down to two things:

1. I went way too far outside of my comfort zone. Maybe the experience would have been different with a tandem jump. Or maybe it would be better to try something more mellow first, like paragliding. Either way, I was so deeply, unbelievably scared that I must have somehow "scarred" my brain with too much stimulation. I understand today that this is exactly how people end up with PTSD, only for me it was a voluntary experience and for most people it's an involuntary one.
2. The instructors were complete assholes and the entire course was a complete joke. I've never had worse instructors in my life and I've never felt more ignored in such a high-stakes situation. Over the years, I've tried many other scary things but all my instructors were understanding, empathetic, and actually knew how to teach and strengthen my confidence instead of undermining it.

Several years later, to confront my fear of flying, I did a tandem paragliding flight. I was also deeply scared but my instructor was very chill and empathetic. We even briefly did some acrobatics (to which I agreed) which my instructor stopped the second I started freaking the F*ck out.



Later, to further eradicate that past trauma, I also flew in a helicopter with doors off. I was sitting right by the drop and I felt completely fine. But we had an excellent pilot and the helicopter felt way sturdier than that shitty airplane. I enjoyed it so much that I booked another helicopter flight a couple of weeks later and even briefly considered becoming a pilot.



Today, I know that air sports are not for me but at least I can every now and then experience them without panicking.

The biggest lesson from that experience was to never again do stuff that's way beyond my comfort zone. You will NOT gain confidence. Quite the contrary, you can end up with PTSD and need counseling to recover from that.

 

[Dennisthe1st]

never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

My key takeaway from this thread; Never give up!
Thank you.

 

[Hein Oosthuysen]

12 years ago, I was a young dude full of dreams, hoping to make at least a few thousand dollars a month from my business so I could be financially free.

At that point in my life, I had already tried several businesses but nothing worked. Each failure sent me into a deep pit of self-pity, followed by another bout of excitement and inevitably another failure.

Fast forward a few years (documented in my progress thread on the inside), I finally figured out how to stick to one business and eventually achieved my dreams (and then some).

I was driving this morning to one of my favorite forest areas to do a kettlebell workout there. As I passed countless cars of people driving into the city to get to work, I felt immense gratitude that my life is so completely different.

I mean, I was alone in the forest, listening to the birds, throwing around some weight, enjoying the sun and the warm weather. It was an epic morning. What more do you need?

View attachment 49193

I get to choose what I want to do and where and when I do it.

I have the luxury of traveling whenever and wherever I want.

I live by my own schedule (or rather, lack thereof). My calendar is empty, with nowhere particular to be at any specific time.

I only work because I want to make more money but not because I need to make more money. And I have the luxury of choosing a business model that fits my values and my lifestyle, without forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do.

To the young(er) version of me, that would be the definition of heaven on Earth.

The only reason why my life is like that is because I refused to quit, no matter how many times I failed. This forum and @MJ DeMarco's work have been instrumental to my success. To a great extent, I owe my lifestyle to the resources and accountability I was able to get here.

This may sound like a trite reminder, perhaps a cheap self-help platitude but… never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

Gary Halbert's favorite saying was "Nothing is impossible for a man who refuses to listen to reason."

You don’t need that much intellect or “natural” abilities to succeed. Determination is REALLY that magic pill (though it doesn’t work overnight).

Even when I had to borrow money just to be able to pay social security taxes to keep my business (legally) running, I never considered quitting. A day job wasn’t my plan B. There was only one future I envisioned for myself.

Not quitting no matter what is the only way to get where you want to go. And more importantly, it’s REALLY, REALLY worth it.

Each day, I’m still deeply appreciative of the life I’m blessed to live. I'm on vacation every day of my life.

Don’t get me wrong. Financial freedom won’t solve all your problems. My life isn’t perfect. I still deal with other stuff. I still sometimes feel like shit. But overall, I live the way I want to, not the way I had to settle to live. And that’s priceless.

If you’re doubting whether you can make it, I’m here to tell you that yes, you can make it. Perhaps you won’t get there in a year or two. It may take longer than you think. But I have no doubt that if you stick to the path, you’ll eventually get to your destination. And then you’ll look back and thank your younger self for staying determined.

I get the frustration.

I get the endless failures.

I get the embarrassment.

I get the discouragement.

I get the lack of support.

Despite it all, you can still make it. Determination trumps it all.

With this forum, MJ’s books, and Internet access, you have all the resources you need to sculpt your life in any way you desire. Just never stop hammering away until you're happy with your sculpture (and then figure out how to make it even better).

Thanks for this post. It's always good to hear these stories from people who have achieved financial freedom. These types of posts helps remind us beginners that it is possible.
I'll join the INSIDERS soon and check out your progress thread to learn more, just want to finish reading MJ's books first.

 

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[Dingo]

Great Post, this really motivated me!

 

[Chrisrod2597]

12 years ago, I was a young dude full of dreams, hoping to make at least a few thousand dollars a month from my business so I could be financially free.

At that point in my life, I had already tried several businesses but nothing worked. Each failure sent me into a deep pit of self-pity, followed by another bout of excitement and inevitably another failure.

Fast forward a few years (documented in my progress thread on the inside), I finally figured out how to stick to one business and eventually achieved my dreams (and then some).

I was driving this morning to one of my favorite forest areas to do a kettlebell workout there. As I passed countless cars of people driving into the city to get to work, I felt immense gratitude that my life is so completely different.

I mean, I was alone in the forest, listening to the birds, throwing around some weight, enjoying the sun and the warm weather. It was an epic morning. What more do you need?

View attachment 49193

I get to choose what I want to do and where and when I do it.

I have the luxury of traveling whenever and wherever I want.

I live by my own schedule (or rather, lack thereof). My calendar is empty, with nowhere particular to be at any specific time.

I only work because I want to make more money but not because I need to make more money. And I have the luxury of choosing a business model that fits my values and my lifestyle, without forcing myself to do things I don’t want to do.

To the young(er) version of me, that would be the definition of heaven on Earth.

The only reason why my life is like that is because I refused to quit, no matter how many times I failed. This forum and @MJ DeMarco's work have been instrumental to my success. To a great extent, I owe my lifestyle to the resources and accountability I was able to get here.

This may sound like a trite reminder, perhaps a cheap self-help platitude but… never give up. Readjust if necessary but stick to your path if you deeply desire a different life, even if it's VASTLY different from the one you live today.

Gary Halbert's favorite saying was "Nothing is impossible for a man who refuses to listen to reason."

You don’t need that much intellect or “natural” abilities to succeed. Determination is REALLY that magic pill (though it doesn’t work overnight).

Even when I had to borrow money just to be able to pay social security taxes to keep my business (legally) running, I never considered quitting. A day job wasn’t my plan B. There was only one future I envisioned for myself.

Not quitting no matter what is the only way to get where you want to go. And more importantly, it’s REALLY, REALLY worth it.

Each day, I’m still deeply appreciative of the life I’m blessed to live. I'm on vacation every day of my life.

Don’t get me wrong. Financial freedom won’t solve all your problems. My life isn’t perfect. I still deal with other stuff. I still sometimes feel like shit. But overall, I live the way I want to, not the way I had to settle to live. And that’s priceless.

If you’re doubting whether you can make it, I’m here to tell you that yes, you can make it. Perhaps you won’t get there in a year or two. It may take longer than you think. But I have no doubt that if you stick to the path, you’ll eventually get to your destination. And then you’ll look back and thank your younger self for staying determined.

I get the frustration.

I get the endless failures.

I get the embarrassment.

I get the discouragement.

I get the lack of support.

Despite it all, you can still make it. Determination trumps it all.

With this forum, MJ’s books, and Internet access, you have all the resources you need to sculpt your life in any way you desire. Just never stop hammering away until you're happy with your sculpture (and then figure out how to make it even better).

Thank you for sharing! I completely agree a job is not going to be an option for me. I haven't seen much success myself and still live with my parents but, I am completely determined to have my business succeed so I can help others who are in the same situation as me do so as well.