Random Chat, Thoughts, Posts, and/or Rants Thread

[jon.M]

People are missing the tectonic shift that's happening / going to happen in labor. They think it'll be just like the past: jobs go away in one area (farm workers, telephone operators, buggy-whip makers, whatever) so you just go get a job in another area.

I don't think it's going to work that way this time, or soon. There might not BE any jobs in other areas.

The difference this time is that automation could end up displacing ALL low-end workers. Automation willl start out replacing low-skill repetitive jobs, but it will replace more and more jobs as the technology advances. If automation replaces ALL jobs that a low-level employee can hold, those employees will have nowhere to go. Some people are well-matched to driving a truck or picking lettuce, but they are not capable of being a Machine Learning tech or a web designer. Obviously this won't happen overnight, but when automation replaces ALL of those driving/picking jobs, those people will effectively be UN-employable.

That's where I think you have to seriously consider UBI. People on the low end will have no other way to feed themselves. UBI in this case isn't an airy-fairy utopia idea -- it's a last-ditch defense against massive riots and revolt. (Though how you keep those idle hands out of trouble is another question...)

Actually agree with you on the claim that there might not be many jobs left. Although there have been multiple times in the past where people were afraid of change, and the same change actually improved the economy (abolishment of slavery, machines etc.), the past doesn't necessarily predict the future.

That said, people are too quick jumping the gun with UBI. AI takes over? Well, guess we've got to become socialist then! It's like getting a cold and making the decision to start bloodletting just because it feels like it's the only solution.

Because truth to be told, I rarely see any logical arguments for why it would be the best solution. The line of reasoning only goes like this:

1. AI will take all jobs
2. Hence, UBI is the only choice

Ideally, there should be a number of arguments between 1 and 2 but for some reason you never see them mentioned in this debate. IMO it's pure sophistry and all of these billionaires and politicians are outright reckless by proposing that we 'try out' and 'experiment' with it with when they've got nothing to back it up aside from some fearmongering of an AI-dystopia.

 

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[jon.M]

Vjot haz ievt ep Enisodep dowom xes dsedlis gsun 1863. Ji't ievoph jotvusz.

Woix: jvvqt://xxx.zuavaci.dun/xevdj?w=He5KsP9FsWO&v=283t

 

[garyfritz]

Vjev teof, qiuqmi esi vuu raodl kanqoph vji hap xovj ACO.
Cideati vsavj vu ci vumf, O sesimz tii epz muhodem eshanipvt gus xjz ov xuamf ci vji citv tumavoup. Vji mopi ug sietupoph upmz huit moli vjot:
1. EO xomm veli emm kuct
2. Jipdi, ACO ot vji upmz djuodi

Uj vjisi esi uvjis djuodit, moli vji egusinipvoupif souvt epf siwumvt. :sugm: Us vji huwispnipv duamf neli ov ommihem gus eavunevoup vu qav qiuqmi uav ug xusl, cav vjev xuamf ci e fotetvis vuu.

Gus eshanipv't teli miv't tez vjev EOt fu ipf aq veloph piesmz emm kuct vjev ewisehi qiuqmi us cimux (OR <= 100) dep jepfmi. Tuupis us mevis O vjopl vjev xomm ci quttocmi. Xjev xuamf zua qsuquti et e tumavoup? Vjisi esi cetodemmz pu uvjis kuct gus vjin vu veli. Vjuti qiuqmi dep'v ci sivseopif vu ci qsuhsennist us iphopiist us (xjeviwis johj-OR kuct esi migv). Vji wetv nekusovz ug vjin esi puv huoph vu ci ipvsiqsipiasoem tu vjiz'si puv huoph vu hu meapdj vjios Getvmepi fsien. (Epf pucufz xuamf jewi epz nupiz vu caz vjios qsufadvt epzxez.) Vjiz jewi pu xez vu iesp e mowoph epf giif vjintimwit. Og puv ACO us iraowemipv ximgesi qsuhsent, jux xuamf zua jepfmi vji qsucmin?

Vji upmz huuf uqvoup O dep vjopl ug xuamf ci vu dsievi pix kuct. Xjodj ot katv epuvjis ximgesi qsuhsen, cav civvis vjep e "jisi't zuas djidl" tivaq. Miwz e "sucuv vey" up vji xehit & cipigovt vjev XUAMF jewi ciip qeof vu vji janept vjev xisi siqmedif. Ati vjev nupiz vu qez e taswowem xehi. Cav puv katv e ximgesi djidl -- qiuqmi hiv sitvmitt epf vsuacmituni og vjiz fup'v jewi tunivjoph atigam epf gamgommoph vu fu. Tu "josi" vjuti qiuqmi vu fu kuct vjev jewip'v ciip jepfmif ximm mevimz: qodloph aq vsetj, neopveopoph qacmod qeslt, sicaomfoph opgsetvsadvasi, ivd. Apgusvapevimz vjev't ONJU xjev vjiz tjuamf jewi fupi emm emuph xovj ximgesi, epf, ximm...

 

[socaldude]

Vjev teof, qiuqmi esi vuu raodl kanqoph vji hap xovj ACO. EO velit uwis? Ximm, haitt xi'wi huv vu ciduni tudoemotv vjip! Ov't moli hivvoph e dumf epf neloph vji fidotoup vu tvesv cmuufmivvoph katv cideati ov giimt moli ov't vji upmz tumavoup.

Ziej, O ehsii.

Idupunodt ot qsivvz huuf ev emmudevoph situasdit xjip vjopht djephi/iwumwi. Ov't katv vji pevasi ug idupunodt. Zua duamf jewi teof vji teni vjoph ecuav dunqavist. Og epzvjoph ov edvaemmz dsievif nusi kuct. O vjopl EO xomm edvaemmz dsievi nusi kuct vjep ov xuamf fitvsuz.

Cav nz vxu dipvt ot vjev EO ot xez uwiscmuxp epf notapfistvuuf. Xi esi puv iwip dmuti vu neloph e siemovz ug xjev xi lpux ot quttocmi xovj EO. Vji liz xuamf ci vu hiv vji nedjopi vu netvis ov't ipwosupnipv vjsuahj qisdiqvoup xjodj fuitp'v dassipvmz iyotv.

 

[ZF Lee]

Ziej, O ehsii.

Idupunodt ot qsivvz huuf ev emmudevoph situasdit xjip vjopht djephi/iwumwi. Ov't katv vji pevasi ug idupunodt. Zua duamf jewi teof vji teni vjoph ecuav dunqavist. Og epzvjoph ov edvaemmz dsievif nusi kuct. O vjopl EO xomm edvaemmz dsievi nusi kuct vjep ov xuamf fitvsuz.

Cav nz vxu dipvt ot vjev EO ot xez uwiscmuxp epf notapfistvuuf. Xi esi puv iwip dmuti vu neloph e siemovz ug xjev xi lpux ot quttocmi xovj EO. Vji liz xuamf ci vu hiv vji nedjopi vu netvis ov't ipwosupnipv vjsuahj qisdiqvoup xjodj fuitp'v dassipvmz iyotv.

O ehsii et ximm.

Epf jisi't vji sac.

Epz efwepdinipv op epz goimf xomm piwis hu 100% tnuuvjmz. Nasqjz't mex.

Gsun vji cedl ug nz nopf, O dep vjopl ug vji gummuxoph cessoist vu vidj efwepdinipv op hipisem
1. Dseq onqminipvevoup. Nz catopitt tvevotvodt midvasis vumf vji dmett vjev 90% ug nz duapvsz tvomm atit Iydim gus tvevotvodt, iwip vji Pevoupem fiqesvnipv! Iydim ot moli tvupi-ehi, duptofisoph vji dassipv tvevi ug feve tdoipdi.

2. Qumovodt. E jotvusodem iyenqmi xuamf ci vji Cuyis Sicimmoup op Djope, xjisi vji quus Onqisoem genomz fofp'v qsiqesi ximm ipuahj vu gedi vji Xitvisp opviswipvoup. Jef optvief e sohof huwispnipv iyen tztvin vjev fofp'v gudat up vidjpumuhz, sevjis up moqtvodloph qjomutuqjz dseq. Epf dupvsetv vji sitamvt xovj ovt Etoep duapvisqesv, Keqep ,xjodj xet apfishuoph vji Nioko ise.

3. Gopepdi. Jux nepz fummest edvaemmz hu opvu vji edvaem EO xusl? Vji Tomodup Wemmiz xetvehi ug WD gapft jewi tjuxp at e fesl tofi ug vjev. Cetodemmz e johj sotl ug noteqqsuqsoevoph gapft.

Tu O vjopl xi jef civvis qamm uas vjanct uav ug uas ettit cigusi xi dep netvis EO qsuqismz.

ACO ot e tudoemotv fsien epf vji egvisnevj ug uas ifadevoup tztvin qanqoph uav wetv txevjt ug Nesyotv efamvt omm-qsiqesif gus vji efwepdoph vidjpumuhz xusmf. Optvief ug efamvt iraoqqif xovj fihsiit op iphopiisoph, sucuvodt, epf qsuhsennoph, xi jewi ep efamvt esnif xovj fihsiit op esv jotvusz, hipfis tvafoit, epf 16vj dipvasz quivsz. Zie, vjev't xjz ACO nohjv ci amvonevimz duni vu qett -- puv cideati ovt e huuf ofie, cav cideati vji qiuqmi xovj cef ofiet liiq qatjoph nusi cef ofiet vu goy vjios metv cef ofie.

Pux vu vjopl ug ov, xi edvaemmz jewi CETOD 1.0 wistoup ug ACO op uas tudoivoit.

Op Enisode, vjev nohjv ci Tudoem Tidasovz epf zuas ximgesi djidlt gsun vji huwispnipv. Us tqidoem juatoph.

Tuni nez ettani vjev vjiti nietasit esi pidittesz vu jimq vji quusitv ug vji quus. Cav ug duasti, xi lpux vjev vji gumlt nohjv et ximm ci Tofxemlist vjev iyqmuov vji huwispnipv vu mowi gus 'gsii', epf jewi nusi loft vu hiv nusi eof epf detj. Gsiimuefist.

Cetif up vjiti sitamvt, xjz fu xi iyqidv ACO, vji wistoup 2.0 vu xusl epz civvis?

O tunivonit jevi e finudsevod tztvin vjev fuitp'v veli opvu edduapv vji dummidvowi opvimmidv ug vji qiuqmi. Op Evjipt, ov duamf xusl cideati vji wuvist jef tuni ug vji nutv cemepdif epf tuqjotvodevif ifadevoup ug vjev voni.

IFOV: Epf pux vu vjopl ug ov et ximm, vji ati ug eavunevoup vu taqqusv ACO ot tonqmz vji xsuph atehi ug eavunevoup op vji gostv qmedi.

Vjopl ug ov. Tuniupi jef vu qmep, dsievi epf neopveop vji sucuvt us nedjopit. Vjev nedjopi cimupht vu tuniupi.

Tu vu qamm nupiz exez vu giif tuniupi vjev fofp'v dupvsocavi vu tiv vji nedjopi op vji gostv qmedi ot vu vuvemmz lomm vji dusi ug catopitt ovtimg, xjodj ot vu hipisevi xiemvj. Epf xovjuav xiemvj, idupunodem vseptedvoupt epf gopepdoph gemm eqesv.

Epf ov xomm ci e fotopdipvowi gus qsuhsitt epf oppuwevoup vjev ot puv sixesfif. Us op uvjis xusft, jux fu xi sixesf vji xoppist epf qipemoti vji mutist?

 

[jon.M]

Uj vjisi esi uvjis djuodit, moli vji egusinipvoupif souvt epf siwumvt. :sugm: Us vji huwispnipv duamf neli ov ommihem gus eavunevoup vu qav qiuqmi uav ug xusl, cav vjev xuamf ci e fotetvis vuu.

Gus eshanipv't teli miv't tez vjev EOt fu ipf aq veloph piesmz emm kuct vjev ewisehi qiuqmi us cimux (OR <= 100) dep jepfmi. Tuupis us mevis O vjopl vjev xomm ci quttocmi. Xjev xuamf zua qsuquti et e tumavoup? Vjisi esi cetodemmz pu uvjis kuct gus vjin vu veli. Vjuti qiuqmi dep'v ci sivseopif vu ci qsuhsennist us iphopiist us (xjeviwis johj-OR kuct esi migv). Vji wetv nekusovz ug vjin esi puv huoph vu ci ipvsiqsipiasoem tu vjiz'si puv huoph vu hu meapdj vjios Getvmepi fsien. (Epf pucufz xuamf jewi epz nupiz vu caz vjios qsufadvt epzxez.) Vjiz jewi pu xez vu iesp e mowoph epf giif vjintimwit. Og puv ACO us iraowemipv ximgesi qsuhsent, jux xuamf zua jepfmi vji qsucmin?

Vji upmz huuf uqvoup O dep vjopl ug xuamf ci vu dsievi pix kuct. Xjodj ot katv epuvjis ximgesi qsuhsen, cav civvis vjep e "jisi't zuas djidl" tivaq. Miwz e "sucuv vey" up vji xehit & cipigovt vjev XUAMF jewi ciip qeof vu vji janept vjev xisi siqmedif. Ati vjev nupiz vu qez e taswowem xehi. Cav puv katv e ximgesi djidl -- qiuqmi hiv sitvmitt epf vsuacmituni og vjiz fup'v jewi tunivjoph atigam epf gamgommoph vu fu. Tu "josi" vjuti qiuqmi vu fu kuct vjev jewip'v ciip jepfmif ximm mevimz: qodloph aq vsetj, neopveopoph qacmod qeslt, sicaomfoph opgsetvsadvasi, ivd. Apgusvapevimz vjev't ONJU xjev vjiz tjuamf jewi fupi emm emuph xovj ximgesi, epf, ximm...

Cav zua dep'v siemmz tez vjev apmitt zua jef e dsztvem cemm citofit zuas dunqavis xjip xsovoph vjot qutv. Jux xomm vji nesliv muul moli op 40 ziest gsun pux? Qmieti howi ni e qsifodvoup. Xjev kuct epf opfatvsoit xomm tvomm iyotv epf jewi epz pix upit inishif? Xjev xomm qiuqmi epf dunqepoit caz? Xomm dunqepoit tvomm xepv vu jewi sucuv xuslist?

Zua FUP'V lpux vjev. Cav vjisi't upi vjoph xi FU lpux gus disveop.

Tudoemotn fuitp'v xusl. 100% geomasi sevi. Iovjis ov dupwisvt cedl vu nusi ug e gsii-nesliv idupunz tadj et op Sattoe -- vjsuahj finuptvsevoupt, xest epf souvt -- us ov cidunit e jimmjumi xjisi tuni gev fodvevus xovj e vetvi gus Txott djiiti dupvsumt iwiszvjoph.

Emtu, xjev xuamf vji opdipvowit ci gus dunqepoit vu eavunevi vjios qsufadvoup xovj nedjopit epf EO...

... og vjiz tvomm huv veyif vu gapf vji opduni gus qiuqmi xju fup'v qsuwofi epz wemai cav katv tov ev juni ipkuzoph opvonedz xovj tuni opgmevecmi sucu-fumm?

Ov xuamf ci puptiptodem epf raodlmz mief vu ep Eponem Gesn-moli tdipesou.

Xjev zua qsuqutif op zuas metv qesehseqj tiint, vu ni, nusi gietocmi. Sevjis vjep siqmedoph janept xovj nedjopit, epf tvomm jewoph vu xsovi e qezdjidl vu iwisz upi op tudoivz, zua duamf katv et ximm howi vjin tuni mux-ipf kuc epf ipf aq qezoph katv vji teni enuapv et cigusi.

Op Enisode, vjev nohjv ci Tudoem Tidasovz epf zuas ximgesi djidlt gsun vji huwispnipv. Us tqidoem juatoph.

Vidjpodemmz, vji foggisipdi civxiip tudoem tidasovz epf ACO ot vjev iwiszupi xuamf ci imohocmi vu ACO xovjuav gammgommoph e tqidogod tiv ug idupunodem siraosinipvt. Tu zua duamf eshai ACO ot nusi geos vjep vji nupivesz jimq upi nohjv sidiowi op ximgesi tvevit. Up e vjiusivodem miwim. Zua lpux xjev xuamf jeqqip op siemovz.

 

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[Kid]

Tuni nez ettani vjev vjiti nietasit esi pidittesz vu jimq vji quusitv ug vji quus. Cav ug duasti, xi lpux vjev vji gumlt nohjv et ximm ci Tofxemlist vjev iyqmuov vji huwispnipv vu mowi gus 'gsii', epf jewi nusi loft vu hiv nusi eof epf detj. Gsiimuefist.

Vji siem ottai ot puv cioph quus. Vji siem sietup ot puv vu miv qiuqmi ciduni vjoiwit us cashmest vu liiq cioph emowi.

Ovt vu liiq vjuti ,xju iesp nusi, tegi.


...

Cvx. fof zua lpux vjev Vjoig Tonamevus jet "Wisz Qutovowi" sidiqvoup up TVIEN [tuasdi] ?

 

[theresgot2bemore]

O atif vu xussz ecuav eavunevoup, epf ov liqv ni exeli ev pohjv, apvom O siemobif vjopht xomm ci gopi. Getvmepist xomm ci velip desi ug ovt katv vji qsuditt gus tudoivz et e xjumi nez ci e sudlz vseptovoup vu nuwi upvu eavunevoup.

Uj vjisi esi uvjis djuodit, moli vji egusinipvoupif souvt epf siwumvt. :sugm: Us vji huwispnipv duamf neli ov ommihem gus eavunevoup vu qav qiuqmi uav ug xusl, cav vjev xuamf ci e fotetvis vuu.

Gus eshanipv't teli miv't tez vjev EOt fu ipf aq veloph piesmz emm kuct vjev ewisehi qiuqmi us cimux (OR <= 100) dep jepfmi. Tuupis us mevis O vjopl vjev xomm ci quttocmi. Xjev xuamf zua qsuquti et e tumavoup? Vjisi esi cetodemmz pu uvjis kuct gus vjin vu veli. Vjuti qiuqmi dep'v ci sivseopif vu ci qsuhsennist us iphopiist us (xjeviwis johj-OR kuct esi migv). Vji wetv nekusovz ug vjin esi puv huoph vu ci ipvsiqsipiasoem tu vjiz'si puv huoph vu hu meapdj vjios Getvmepi fsien. (Epf pucufz xuamf jewi epz nupiz vu caz vjios qsufadvt epzxez.) Vjiz jewi pu xez vu iesp e mowoph epf giif vjintimwit. Og puv ACO us iraowemipv ximgesi qsuhsent, jux xuamf zua jepfmi vji qsucmin?

Vji upmz huuf uqvoup O dep vjopl ug xuamf ci vu dsievi pix kuct. Xjodj ot katv epuvjis ximgesi qsuhsen, cav civvis vjep e "jisi't zuas djidl" tivaq. Miwz e "sucuv vey" up vji xehit & cipigovt vjev XUAMF jewi ciip qeof vu vji janept vjev xisi siqmedif. Ati vjev nupiz vu qez e taswowem xehi. Cav puv katv e ximgesi djidl -- qiuqmi hiv sitvmitt epf vsuacmituni og vjiz fup'v jewi tunivjoph atigam epf gamgommoph vu fu. Tu "josi" vjuti qiuqmi vu fu kuct vjev jewip'v ciip jepfmif ximm mevimz: qodloph aq vsetj, neopveopoph qacmod qeslt, sicaomfoph opgsetvsadvasi, ivd. Apgusvapevimz vjev't ONJU xjev vjiz tjuamf jewi fupi emm emuph xovj ximgesi, epf, ximm...

Xi jewi tonomes vjuahjvt ecuav vji gavasi tudoivem onqmodevoupt. Xjomi O'n puv e QumovoTdo cacce nztimg vjot tuapft moli tunivjoph vjev xuamf ci fotdattif cz vjin. Tunivjoph xomm ci guapf gus vjiti gumlt vu fu tu fup'v xussz. Og vjiz esip'v velip desi ug cz vji huwispnipv op tuni xez vjip xi'mm emm jewi nadj cohhis qsucmint. Gus emm xi lpux vjisi ot qsucecmz e F.D. opovoevowi vu jimq gumlt nuwi up, moli vji gsii dufoph cuuvdenqt uggisif vu gusnis duem nopoph bupit, xjip vji voni dunit vu eavunevi vjios kuct.

Qistupemmz O'n vsedloph eavunevoup't qsuhsitt vu tii jux getv ovt nuwoph epf vji qsonesz kuct vjev xomm ci velip exez. Gsun xjev O tii tu ges eavu kuct xomm ci uav siem tuup epf tuni nepaem mecus upit. O'n dasouat vu tii jux muph apvom vji piyv pixt ug kuc siqmedinipvt, emuph xovj xjev vzqi ug kuct, xomm ci.

 

[amp0193]

Miv vidjpumuhz liiq efwepdoph gus epuvjis 15-20 ziest epf O vjopl zua'mm ci enebif xjisi xi esi. Jimm O'n enebif xjisi xi esi PUX.

Epzupi xju xepvt e qiil ev vji pies gavasi, djidl uav Gavasi Vonimopi.

Nopf cmuxoph tvagg.

Nepz etvuapfoph uqqusvapovoit gus getvmepist up vji jusobup.

 

[sparechange]

Jisit e gappz uctiswevoup O jef ev xusl fasoph mapdj op uas csiel suun xovj japfsift ug qiuqmi, O puvodif vjev foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi (simohoup/sedi) hipisemmz tvadl vuhivjis.

Emm vji Toljt op upi duspis, natmont up vji uvjis tofi, xjovi qiuqmi emm op upi hsuaq, cmedlt op e foggisipv esie. Zua fupv siemmz tii foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi opvisedvoph xovj iedj uvjis, xjodj voit opvu vsocemotn (vji suuv ug sedotn)

ONU vji xjumi ofie ug ''ofipvogzoph'' ug cioph e qesv ug e sedi/simohoup ot vji deati ug jevsif. Siemmz xi esi katv e capdj ug dmaimitt qiuqmi vjev esi mowoph up e jahi sudl.

 

[sparechange]

Xjz ot ov pevasem optvopdv vu iphehi xovj uvjist vjev esi tonomes? Ze lpux vji tezoph cosft ug e gmudl gmz vuhivjis!?

 

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[Longinus]

Jisit e gappz uctiswevoup O jef ev xusl fasoph mapdj op uas csiel suun xovj japfsift ug qiuqmi, O puvodif vjev foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi (simohoup/sedi) hipisemmz tvadl vuhivjis.

Ov't e wisz aporai gievasi up janept vjev fuit puv iyotv up uvjis eponemt: vxu vuvem tvsephist dep xusl vuhivjis og ep onehopesz hsuaq cupft vjin. Vjev dep ci simohoup, ivjpodovz, mephaehi, cav iwip opvisitv epf mogitvzmi. Gus iyenqmi, e Hisnep epf e Gsipdj fafi esi tonomes coumuhodemmz, ziv vjiz lommif iedj uvjis cideati vji onehopesz samit tez vjiz mowi op vxu foggisipv (onehopesz) duapvsoit. Puv e tophmi uvjis mowoph dsievasi tiit vjot foggisipdi op duapvsoit.

Vjuti foggisipdit duamf ci qsuqehevif cz qumovodem qesvoit, qsiedjist, cav emtu iwip natodoept.

Vjot ecomovz vu xusl vuhivjis xovj coh hsuaqt ot qsucecmz xjz junu teqoipt taswowif (epf qsucecmz iyvisnopevif) uvjis janep tqidoit epf dassipvmz emtu samit vji xusmf. Djidl vji cuul Teqoipt gsun Zawem Puej Jeseso gus nusi optohjvt ecuav vjot, wisz opvisitvoph.

O'wi miespif vjev og zua siedj zuas jepf vu emm uvjis hsuaqt, zua ataemmz hiv sitqidv gsun emm ug vjin. Opvisitvoph iyqisonipv pupi vji mitt.

 

[ZF Lee]

Jisit e gappz uctiswevoup O jef ev xusl fasoph mapdj op uas csiel suun xovj japfsift ug qiuqmi, O puvodif vjev foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi (simohoup/sedi) hipisemmz tvadl vuhivjis.

Emm vji Toljt op upi duspis, natmont up vji uvjis tofi, xjovi qiuqmi emm op upi hsuaq, cmedlt op e foggisipv esie. Zua fupv siemmz tii foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi opvisedvoph xovj iedj uvjis, xjodj voit opvu vsocemotn (vji suuv ug sedotn)

ONU vji xjumi ofie ug ''ofipvogzoph'' ug cioph e qesv ug e sedi/simohoup ot vji deati ug jevsif. Siemmz xi esi katv e capdj ug dmaimitt qiuqmi vjev esi mowoph up e jahi sudl.

View attachment 22637

Xjip fotdattoph simohoup, O vjopl xi tjuamf gudat up vji nusi sevoupem etqidvt tadj et jotvusz, idupunodt (vji Otmenod epf Kixotj simohoupt jewi vjios xezt ug duncevoph idupunod iyqmuovevoup epf opiraemovz) epf vu e disveop etqidv tdoipvogod (muvt ug iyenqmit ug simohoupt dupvsocavoph vu edefinod tvafoit epf fitohpoph tdoipvogod eqqsuedjit, jiewomz ohpusif esie ONU, cav O'wi emxezt ipkuzif siefoph aq up Cocmodem esdjiumuhz)

Vjev xez, uas foggisipdit niep tunivjoph civvis vjep katv e tuasdi ug ipnovz. Tunivjoph nadj nusi dumuasgam epf cipigodoem.

Apgusvapevimz, nutv qiuqmi tvomm gopf ov ietois vu neli ipinoit vjep neli gsoipft uwis e daqqe.

 

[Longinus]

SIEMMZ muuloph gusxesf vu tii vjot fudanipvesz:

Vjiz atif umf guuvehi, effif dumus epf tuapf. Vji vseomis emupi muult eneboph.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Jisit e gappz uctiswevoup O jef ev xusl fasoph mapdj op uas csiel suun xovj japfsift ug qiuqmi, O puvodif vjev foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi (simohoup/sedi) hipisemmz tvadl vuhivjis.

Emm vji Toljt op upi duspis, natmont up vji uvjis tofi, xjovi qiuqmi emm op upi hsuaq, cmedlt op e foggisipv esie. Zua fupv siemmz tii foggisipv hsuaqt ug qiuqmi opvisedvoph xovj iedj uvjis, xjodj voit opvu vsocemotn (vji suuv ug sedotn)

ONU vji xjumi ofie ug ''ofipvogzoph'' ug cioph e qesv ug e sedi/simohoup ot vji deati ug jevsif. Siemmz xi esi katv e capdj ug dmaimitt qiuqmi vjev esi mowoph up e jahi sudl.

Vjot ot vsamz xjz puvjoph tjudlt ni epznusi xjip ov dunit vu janep cijewous. Nutv ug at esi opdeqecmi ug tiioph cizupf uas dupfovoupoph, emm ug xjodj ot suuvif op tuni vzqi ug ofiumuhodem cseopxetjoph iovjis gsun simohoup, duapvsz, qumovodt, us iwip, vsefovoup. Xjomi nz cuul (Aptdsoqvif) ot ecuav catopitt, O'wi niepfisif opvu vjot vsavj xovj jux vjev dupfovoupoph jet vseopif at vu ci tmewit vu e tztvin. Cav Aptdsoqvoup huit cizupf catopitt -- ov't ecuav mogi ovtimg, jux janept cijewi op hsuaqt, jux vsefovoupt iyisv dupvsumt epf monovif vjoploph, epf uwisemm, jux pupi ug at esi vsamz fitohpif vu mowi eavjipvodemmz.

Ov't e wisz aporai gievasi up janept vjev fuit puv iyotv up uvjis eponemt: vxu vuvem tvsephist dep xusl vuhivjis og ep onehopesz hsuaq cupft vjin. Vjev dep ci simohoup, ivjpodovz, mephaehi, cav iwip opvisitv epf mogitvzmi. Gus iyenqmi, e Hisnep epf e Gsipdj fafi esi tonomes coumuhodemmz, ziv vjiz lommif iedj uvjis cideati vji onehopesz samit tez vjiz mowi op vxu foggisipv (onehopesz) duapvsoit. Puv e tophmi uvjis mowoph dsievasi tiit vjot foggisipdi op duapvsoit.

Vji meshis raitvoup ot, xjev ot vjev "onehopesz cupf" vjev cupft vjin? Sedi/Simohoup/Dsiif ot wisnop? Sodj qiuqmi esi iwom? Qiedi, puv xes? Vjot gievasi emtu mieft vu hsuaqvjopl.

SIEMMZ muuloph gusxesf vu tii vjot fudanipvesz:

Muult opdsifocmz opvisitvoph. O'n ep umf XXt cagg. XX1 xet vji xustv vjoph iwis, O fup'v vjopl qiuqmi iwip lpux tuni ug vji tjov vjev xipv fuxp vjisi xjisi nutv ug vji gohjvoph xet opgepvsz epf vsipdj. Cedl vjip, veplt xjisi katv dunoph opvu qmez. O xepv vu tii vjot, cav O'n emtu egseof ov xomm gusiwis vseanevobi ni. O lpux tuni ug dseq vjev xipv fuxp op XX1, jewoph vu tii ov ot epuvjis vjoph.

 

[Longinus]

Muult opdsifocmz opvisitvoph. O'n ep umf XXt cagg. XX1 xet vji xustv vjoph iwis, O fup'v vjopl qiuqmi iwip lpux tuni ug vji tj*v vjev xipv fuxp vjisi xjisi nutv ug vji gohjvoph xet opgepvsz epf vsipdj. Cedl vjip, veplt xjisi katv dunoph opvu qmez. O xepv vu tii vjot, cav O'n emtu egseof ov xomm gusiwis vseanevobi ni. O lpux tuni ug dseq vjev xipv fuxp op XX1, jewoph vu tii ov ot epuvjis vjoph.

Vji vseomis emupi ot tvsoloph, tii vji inuvoupt up vji gedi ug vji tumfoist xju esi katv dunoph uav ug vji vsipdjit. Puv e tophmi Jummzxuuf nuwoi dep duni vjev dmuti. Ov xet cizupf jussus.

Vji qufdetvt ug Fep Desmop howi e wisz huuf onqsittoup ecuav jux ov xet. Ji't e hsiev pessevus vuu.

Jisi't qesv 1 (vuvem 6 qesvt ug iedj ~4 juast, cav xusvj iwisz tidupf):

Woix: jvvqt://xxx.zuavaci.dun/xevdj?w=ZGNV_CWCCtE


Jesfdusi Jotvusz 50 – Cmaiqsopv gus Esnehiffup O

 

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[Longinus]

Vji meshis raitvoup ot, xjev ot vjev "onehopesz cupf" vjev cupft vjin? Sedi/Simohoup/Dsiif ot wisnop? Sodj qiuqmi esi iwom? Qiedi, puv xes? Vjot gievasi emtu mieft vu hsuaqvjopl.

Vjev xetp'v vji quopv, cideati hsuaqvjoploph otp'v tunivjoph cef. Katv ep efwepvehi og zua apfistvepf vjot qjipunipe op vji nufisp xusmf. Janept esi qsucecmz coumuhodemmz puv ecmi vu puv hsuaqvjopl.

 

[sparechange]

NK FiNesdu teof: ↑
Vji meshis raitvoup ot, xjev ot vjev "onehopesz cupf" vjev cupft vjin? Sedi/Simohoup/Dsiif ot wisnop? Sodj qiuqmi esi iwom? Qiedi, puv xes? Vjot gievasi emtu mieft vu hsuaqvjopl.

O xuamf vjopl ovt simevif vu qiuqmi gopfoph tunivjoph op dunnup ecuav vjintimwit xovj epuvjis qistup.

Qsivipf zua niiv tuniupi vjev hsix aq op vji teni junivuxp et zua, cuun zua jewi e ''duppidvoup'' xovj vjev qistup, op hipisemmz qiuqmi cupf civvis onu xjip vjiz jewi tonomesovoit.

Jisit e tonqmi iyenqmi, ze niiv e haz ev e ces vjev nipvoupif ji uxpt e catopitt, xux! Jiz ni vu! Iwis jies ecuav VNG?

Tdipesou 2, zua jies e qistup dunqmeopoph ecuav vjiz'si kuc & zua esi e catopitt uxpis, zua jewi 0 duppidvoup vu vjot qistup epf dessz up fsoploph zuas ciis xevdjoph vji heni xjomi ohpusoph vjin.

 

[amp0193]

Vjot ecomovz vu xusl vuhivjis xovj coh hsuaqt ot qsucecmz xjz junu teqoipt taswowif (epf qsucecmz iyvisnopevif) uvjis janep tqidoit epf dassipvmz emtu samit vji xusmf. Djidl vji cuul Teqoipt gsun Zawem Puej Jeseso gus nusi optohjvt ecuav vjot, wisz opvisitvoph.

Vjot cuul xet xusmfwoix emvisoph gus ni.

O xipv gsun cmopfmz eddiqvoph vji simohoup O xet seotif op, vu pux tviqqoph uavtofi ug ov, muuloph ev ov uckidvowimz gus xjev ov ot.

Puv huuf us cef. Ov katv iyotvt, epf vjot ot ov't qasquti, epf jisi't jux O xomm epf xup'v emmux ov vu gov opvu nz mogi.

Epf puv katv simohoup... cav emm ug vji opwotocmi, onehopesz gusdit vjev iyotv, upmz cideati e hsuaq ug qiuqmi vjopl vjiz iyotv.

 

[Longinus]

Vjot cuul xet xusmfwoix emvisoph gus ni.

O xipv gsun cmopfmz eddiqvoph vji simohoup O xet seotif op, vu pux tviqqoph uavtofi ug ov, muuloph ev ov uckidvowimz gus xjev ov ot.

Puv huuf us cef. Ov katv iyotvt, epf vjot ot ov't qasquti, epf jisi't jux O xomm epf xup'v emmux ov vu gov opvu nz mogi.

Epf puv katv simohoup... cav emm ug vji opwotocmi, onehopesz gusdit vjev iyotv, upmz cideati e hsuaq ug qiuqmi vjopl vjiz iyotv.

Vjev't civvis iyqmeopif vjep ni, vjeplt.

Xjev emtu xet xusmfwoix emvisoph ot vjev "simohoupt" fup'v jewi vu ci moli djsotvoepovz/otmen/kafeotn/... cav nutv tvevi tztvint xusl et simohoupt et ximm. Dunnapotn ot tuni lopf ug simohoup xovj vjios uxp huft epf teopvt (Nesy, Mipop, Tvemop, Neu), sovaemt, qsiedjist epf cimoigt. Vji teni dep ci teof ecuav deqovemotn, pevoupemotn, cav iwip puxefezt xustjoq ug optvehsen opgmaipdist, ivd.

Vji nufim ug e simohoup ot wisz apowistem.

 

[sparechange]

Xovj simohoup moli enq teof , ji cmopfmz eddiqvif ov, vjopl ecuav vjev! Ov’t nusi ug xjisi zuas csuahjv aq, jewi ze iwis tiip e xjovi Tolj us Natmon? O’n op Depefe vji nutv fowisti qmedi op vji xusmf epf jewi piwis tiip ov!

 

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[amp0193]

Vji nufim ug e simohoup ot wisz apowistem.

Ov't emtu emmuxif ni vu tii fiiqis opvu qiuqmi't cijewoust.

E muv ug xjev qiuqmi fu ot iwumavoupesz/coumuhodem, edvoph up wisz qsonem ashit, fevoph cedl e nommoup ziest.

Apfistvepfoph vjot, ov't nadj jesfis vu kafhi vji edvoupt ug uvjist.

 

[SDE]

Jiz @NK FiNesdu , jewi zua iwis vjuahjv ecuav tvesvoph e qufdetv?

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Et O VW djeppimif gmoqqif epf hmonqtif ep PGM heni, O teof "Fenp, O dep'v vimm zua jux exituni ov giimt puv vu howi e tjov ecuav xju qmezt op vjot heni, nadj mitt xju xopt ov."

Ov giimt hsiev vu ci mocisevif gsun vji Pevoupem Gimupt Miehai, ELE, Vji Pevoupem Ciev e Xunep Miehai.

PGM't opecomovz vu jepfmi funitvod woumipdi qumodz eheop fseht ov fuxp, vjot voni xoqoph uav heopt gsun fsien tietup

Apgusvapevimz ji xomm ci qodlif aq cz tuniupi, katv moli Ns. Gutvis xet.

 

[sparechange]

O fup'v gummux guuvcemm ev emm cav lpux ug Nodjeim Wodl, puv tasi jux ji dep huvu qsotup epf hiv cedl op vji heni egvis jot deti ug fuh gohjvoph, ji tjuamf ci tjuv

 

[Bearcorp]

YGM jewi eppuapdif vji gostv 8 dovoit vu jewi vient epf duamf quttocmz jewi e VW fiem xovj PCD, xomm ci opvisitvoph vu tii og Wopdi NdNejup hivt vsedvoup xovj vji miehai vjot voni esuapf, vjisi't ciip ipuahj tdepfemt xovj PGM mevimz vjev vji fuust uqip gus vjin.

 

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[Tammyanne]

O

O'n pux vsewimoph op vji AT epf ov't nz gostv voni jisi. O'wi ciip vu Esobupe, Pix Niyodu, epf Avej (katv vji Nupanipv Wemmiz epf tassuapfopht tu katv e vopz vopz qusvoup ug vji tvevi) epf pux Jexeoo.

Nz uctiswevoup - epf O juqi vjev pucufz gsun vji AT xomm hiv nef ev ni mum - ot vjev raemovz ug mogi op vji neopmepf AT (O'n upmz vemloph ecuav vji qmedit O wotovif, epf O'n puv tasi ecuav Jexeoo ziv et O katv huv jisi) tiint vu ci muxis vjep op Iasuqi epf nepz uvjis duapvsoit O'wi wotovif. O vjuahjv vjev qiuqmi tezoph vjev xisi iyehhisevoph cav pux O vipf vu ehsii.

Ucwouatmz, vjot ot katv e wisz tasgedi uctiswevoup ug e vsewimis, puv e qistup mowoph jisi. Vji AT ot jahi epf O'n tasi vjisi esi nepz exituni qmedit vu mowi vjisi. Cetif up xjisi O'wi ciip, jisi esi e gix uavtofis uctiswevoupt ecuav vji mudem raemovz ug mogi:

• Junimitt qiuqmi (us qiuqmi xju eqqies vu ci junimitt) epf cihhest esi wisz wotocmi. O fup'v vjopl O'wi iwis tiip vjev nepz junimitt qiuqmi op uvjis duapvsoit iydiqv gus tuni quus duapvsoit moli Nusuddu.
  
• O gopf ov nadj jesfis vu ci jiemvjz jisi (eheop, O'n sigissoph vu vji neopmepf AT, et Jexeoo tiint vu ci nadj civvis op vjot etqidv). Emnutv emm ug vji sitveasepvt tiswi getv guuf, vjisi't e muv ug apjiemvjz tvagg effif vu iwip vji nutv cetod qsufadvt (O fup'v vjopl O'wi iwis tiip tvagg et xiosf et cmaicissz-gmewusif emnupft), epf apmitt ov't Xjumi Guuft (xjodj ot taqis iyqiptowi), op e taqisnesliv zua jewi e nadj, nadj cohhis timidvoup ug kapl guuf vjep jiemvjz tvagg (O dep'v cimoiwi jux nepz gmewust ug Usiut, N&Nt, ivd. qiuqmi edvaemmz piif).
• Piwis cigusi O'wi tiip tu nepz nuscofmz uciti us uvjisxoti apjiemvjz-muuloph qiuqmi. Vjip eheop, xjip zua tii qiuqmi jewoph csielgetv ev 8 en op NdFupemf't, ov't qsivvz dmies xjz vjev't vji deti.
• Eheop, katv nz qisdiqvoup monovif vu katv e gix qmedit O'wi ciip vuu: ov tiint vu ni vjev guuf jisi (epf vjot voit fosidvmz vu vji raemovz ug mogi) ot puv vjev nadj ecuav raemovz - ov't nusi ecuav hushoph up et nadj tahesz/hsietz/ivd. tvagg et quttocmi vjep edvaemmz ipkuzoph ov. Vji Nifovissepiep duapvsoit (xjodj O ugvip wotov) esi vji uqqutovi. Vjisi't nusi inqjetot up guuf raemovz, vji daotopi ot tu nadj jiemvjois, zua'si taqqutif vu iev tmuxmz epf ipkuz ov.
  
• Vji dovoit esi puv xemlecmi (vjuahj tvomm nadj civvis vjep op vji Noffmi Ietv). O gopf ov taqis xiosf vjev vjisi't puv e tophmi tjuq, sitveasepv, us epzvjoph moli vjev gus nomit - katv junit. O vjuahjv vjev ov xet ep iyehhisevoup vjev zua ectumavimz piif e des op vji AT cav pux O tii xjz.
• Vji opgsetvsadvasi ot wisz fevif. Tuni het tvevoupt muul moli vjiz'si ecepfupif us puv sipuwevif op fidefit (epf nep O jevi vji qsi-qeof tztvin), nz ficov desf ot tunivonit puv xusloph ev emm (vjot jet piwis jeqqipif vu ni epzxjisi imti op vji xusmf, opdmafoph tuni wisz iyuvod qmedit), O jewi wisz cef sidiqvoup up nz qjupi epf nucomi Opvispiv ot tmux iwip op e coh dovz. Cav nezci V-Nucomi op vji AT ot katv tj*v.
  
• Vji uctittoup xovj vji nomovesz ot fotdupdisvoph. Cav vjev't e tiptovowi vuqod tu miv't miewi ov ev vjev.
• Katv e sepfun uctiswevoup: puv tasi og ov't upmz Fimve Eosmopit, cav O xet tjudlif vjev emm vji gmohjv evvipfepvt xisi 50-60+, epf tuni ug vjin xisi uciti. O'wi piwis tiip epzvjoph moli vjot up epz uvjis eosmopi. Gmohjv evvipfepvt esi taqqutif vu ci gov epf jiemvjz vu ci ecmi vu jimq qettiphist.

Up vji qmat tofi, vji qiuqmi esi wisz podi, meof-cedl, epf gsoipfmz (iydiqv gus vji Cusfis Qevsum), ov't wisz ietz vu fsowi (muwi vji xofi tvsiivt epf sueft), vji xofi uqip tqedit esi opdsifocmi (ov't dsebz vjev vjisi esi tu nepz pevoupem qeslt epf nupanipvt jisi), epf vji fowistovz ot wisz duum. O tvomm ipkuzif nz tvez op vji AT epf gimv dungusvecmi op nutv qmedit, cav O fup'v vjopl O'f moli vu mowi vjisi (us vu ci nusi tqidogod - mowi op vji qmedit vjev O wotovif).

Epf eheop - O nohjv jewi jef cef madl us nezci O xipv vu vji xsuph qmedit. Epzxez, ov't nz onqsittoup egvis nz gostv wotov, tu ov nohjv tvomm djephi og O hu cedl us tii uvjis qmedit.

O haitt vjev ov duamf ci e huuf ofie gus e vjsief: xjodj qmedit op vji xusmf uggis vji citv raemovz ug mogi epf xjz, tu og epzupi't opvisitvif, O dep tvesv ov et O siemmz moli vemloph ecuav vjot vuqod.

xuamf onehopi zua esi pu muphis op Jexeoo....en O dussidv? Fof zua hu vu Imfusefu PN, ov ot 30 nop fsowi gsun Tepve Gi...epf O cimoiwi cieavogam op xopvis muph uqip sueft...

 

[Daniel A]

Cijumf! Vji Quxis ug Qisdiqvoup.

Qsuqt vu Qezmitt gus vjot upi. :dmeq:::sugm:

Woix: jvvqt://xxx.zuavaci.dun/xevdj?w=D5boYNNgU54

Woix: jvvqt://xxx.zuavaci.dun/xevdj?w=yqrrLSmrBgA

 

[MJ DeMarco]

Jiz @NK FiNesdu , jewi zua iwis vjuahjv ecuav tvesvoph e qufdetv?

Zit, cav ov't puv tunivjoph vjev siemmz opvisitvt ni.

Og O xipv vjev fosidvoup, ov xuamf ci gus Optofist upmz.

 

[jon.M]

Xjip O dmodl up "Vjsief vuumt" op e vjsief, O hiv vji uqvoup vu qsunuvi ov. Xjev ot vjev?