Existential Thoughts: Change My Mind

[heavy_industry]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but this is how I view life:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBpaUICxEhk


When you dance, there is no end goal, and there is no logical reason for doing it either.

You dance for the sole purpose of dancing.

And the same happens with life.

The only purpose of life is living.

It's to experience this rare gift that has been given to us.

This doesn't mean living hedonistically "for the present moment". I find that the constant pursuit of challenge and difficulty is bringing meaning into my life.

---

We live in a very strange world, whose complexity is orders of magnitude greater than what our primitive minds can comprehend.

The phenomenon of biological life - and existence itself, for that matter - is fundamentally absurd. It has no reason or apparent purpose for existing, and yet, fortunately, it does exist.

I would stop looking for an answer because the answer does not exist.

We're here for a brief amount of time, so don't take things too seriously.

The light will soon go out forever, at which point, there will be only two questions left:

• How beautifully did we live our lives?
• How much good have we done for the world?

So let's try to be kind to one another and work as hard as we can.

While we still can.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Before I leave this topic, I did learn something about myself this week.

Sunday was my 37th birthday. I woke around 2 am. It was snowing, very cold out. I ran 2 miles. Came home, climbed three flights of stairs to my bedroom for a shower. As I was getting undressed, I heard a scream, so I opened the blinds.

A car was sitting in the middle of the road, blocking the entrance to the gas station. A woman was crying. She opened the hood, shut it, climbed back in her car cried more with the door open.

I got dressed, went downstairs, got my jumper cables and drove across the street. By the time I got there, a police officer had arrived, but he couldn't figure out what was wrong with the car. He also didn't have cables.

I told him I could jump it, and if it wouldn't start, I would help him push it out of the way.

So I jumped the car, but it only held a charge long enough to start and get in gear. Then I helped push the car up the slope into the parking lot. Then the police officer took the woman home. She was grateful. She'd just finished a 12 hour shift.

Anyway, I discovered that, given the opportunity, I will choose to help. So, at least on some level, I do care about helping others. I was wrong about that before.

 

[Johnny boy]

“Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.
Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil.
Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.”

Your greatest mistake is you have become your own god.

If you were so wise, wouldn’t you have what you want? You know yourself the best, more intimately than anything else, yet you cannot make even yourself satisfied. How can you be so wise then? How can you know what is real and what is true and what is right and what is wrong, if you can’t so much as keep yourself satisfied enough to not contemplate destroying yourself.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

It is pointless but it is not your body or life to destroy. It is a gift you were giving that you don’t deserve and it is astonishing you would not show appreciation for such a fantastic gift.

You are 10000% going to die bro. Spoiler alert.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Recipe for regret and emptiness: “doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment”.

You have been given a gift and don’t see it as a gift because you are too arrogant to accept who gave it to you, what your duties are, and think that you can figure everything out for yourself.

It very clearly has not been working.

To be selfish and ask what can be done for you, or to think all actions are meant to satisfy you, is a thought for a child.

The thought of a man revolves around his duty. A man fulfilling his duties spends little time questioning his fulfillment in life.

I think from your lifestyle and people you’ve probably been around, that your views are warped. Hedonistic, college educated and arrogant. Until years later they’re sitting in a lonely pool of tears.

You are going to die. Life itself has no objective meaning and it is pointless. You were given life and don’t deserve it so show some appreciation. You have duties as a man and it is your job to do what needs to be done which will give you a semblance of meaning and will give you satisfaction that is enduring and not empty. You are stupid so don’t be so sure that there is no God. Let go of your arrogance because it is quite clear you have not done a good job at being your own leader if you are sad.

 

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[biophase]

Thank you all for the responses so far.

Here are some thoughts that are not in response to anyone in particular.

On Being Grateful for Life as a Gift
I don't understand the perspective of being grateful for what I am gifted when it isn't something I wanted or requested to begin with. I can give a man a steak, cooked to perfection. If he's vegan, it won't be a gift he wants to receive, even if I say, "but it's a gift, and it's free, so enjoy it!" the man will not enjoy it. Then you could say the man chooses not to enjoy it. He chooses to be vegan. Is the receiver ungrateful? Is the giver inconsiderate? And importantly, wouldn't everyone in this scenario have been better off if this interaction never took place?

Well, with this view. It's hard to like anything. If you don't like that you are alive, then oh well.

The vegan person isn't enjoying the steak no matter what another person tells him about. In fact, the more the person says it's wagyu or it's from this farm, or it was prepared this way, the more the vegan will despise of it.

So if this is the case, nothing we tell you here is going to change your mind.

On Whether or Not Anything Matters
If we are all going to die, then I think nothing matters (with the caveat that this perspective assumes death is the *end* and that nothing can be experienced afterward)

Yes we are all going to die. Everyone on the forum today will not be around in 2120. Does that mean that everything we do from now until then is for nothing?

Well, it depends on you. You could work a job and retire and not interact with anyone or you could find the cure for cancer and you're life would have mattered to millions of people.

On Indefinite Existence as a Perpetual Hell
I tend to think indefinite life would be ideal;

Well this makes no sense. So living forever would make life matter, but dying make it not matter?

If you worked and sat on the couch for 1000 years, how would your life matter more? I would think this would be the opposite. Imagine your current mindset, but you lived forever. That would be hell. You would try something and give up as soon as it was not fun. You would become not good at everything.

If something ceases to be more satisfying than dissatisfying, then I cease the activity. If running starts to destroy my knees, I would stop running, but I would still pursue other exercises to maintain health and fitness. When a business idea doesn't seem satisfying, I switch ideas. Sometimes I come back to ideas later on. So it's not completely "pleasure in the moment." It's a calculation about the amount of satisfaction that continuing that activity is likely to generate vs the amount of dissatisfaction. It is also a calculation about how much I desire the overarching outcome of the pursuit (How badly do I want to be healthy/wealthy/masterful, etc.?).

Honestly, I view this as either laziness of lack of motivation.

If you started to hate running, you would stop. But you would use the excuse of your knees hurting to stop.

Inner motivation just doesn't work for some people.

Imagine if your goal was to make enough money to get a Ferrari. You start a business with the goal. The business becomes hard and not fun anymore. It's easy to tell yourself that you don't want the Ferrari so therefore you stop the business. But the real reason wasn't that you didn't want the Ferrari, it was because you didn't want to do the work you deemed not pleasurable. You still do want the Ferrari, you are just lying to yourself.

Not imagine if you had to make $250,000 to pay for a loved one's life saving surgery. Now the business becomes hard and not fun anymore. Would you be able to stop and move onto something else? Could you say to your loved one, "You know, my business just isn't fun anymore, good luck on paying for that surgery!"

I view life as living within a chunk of time. We get 50-100 years and I get to choose what I want to do within this time period. This world said, hey biophase, here's 1971 to 2071, do what you wish.

This is probably a poor car analogy. But imagine you go rent a car. The counter person says, here are the keys to that Ferrari. It's brand new, you have to for 30 days. After 30 days it will just explode.

So you could, drive the shit out of it. You could crash it to pieces on day 10. You could give kids a ride in it and make them happy or you could just never drive it and let it sit in your garage. It's all up to you.

 

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[RightyTighty]

Sounds like you’re way too much inside your own head. I’ve been there. Here are a few things to try:

Go by the hospital and make a trip to the maternity ward viewing room. Spend a few minutes looking through the glass at the babies in the buckets. There’s a lot of energy and hope in that space, and there is something affirming about seeing all of those newly minted little people.

Get some exercise, especially outdoors. Golf, ride a horse, paddle a canoe, go on a hike. I prefer solitude in the deep woods; I’m not especially religious but the forest always feels like a cathedral and makes me feel like I’m a part of something bigger.

And the best way to get out of your head is to give your time to others. Call your elderly aunt just to say hello. Visit an assisted living and talk to some lonely people. Work a shift at the soup kitchen. If you’re not a people person go to the animal shelter and bathe dogs. You’ll feel more connected and you’ll feel better about yourself.

Beware of seeking happiness. It is ill-defined and fleeting. Instead, try to find some joy in each day. It is always there if you look for it.

In all of your “executing”, make sure you take time to execute things along the way that feed your soul. Balance is extremely important. In your case I also recommend you talk to your primary care physician. I know from experience how life-changing SSRI meds can be when you’re in a dark hole.

My personal philosophy is that at the end of the day you have nothing but relationships. How do you affect the lives of others and how will they remember you? I try to keep in at least moderate touch with family and friends, and try to share my experience with others to hopefully provide value. I especially enjoy talking with younger people I’ve met on this forum (“younger” includes pretty much everybody!). Your drive and energy give me hope for the future.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

Great thread @Lex DeVille .

“For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.”

Matters of experience are matters of perspective. Perspective is not a matter of knowledge though, but of feeling.

And therein lies the problem.

More knowledge and mental activity cannot dig you out of the pit that knowledge and mental activity placed you in to begin with.

You already know this, but the “rational” part of the brain is a relatively new addition.

Some, like Peter Wessel Zapffe whose essay “The Last Messiah” you’d greatly enjoy given your worldview and somewhat antinatalist positions, would say that this rational part of the brain is nature’s biggest mistake.

Because, it is an interruption in nature’s flow and activity. As Hamlet says “the hue of resolution is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought.”

The Christian religion views this through the prism of “knowledge of Good and Evil” — ie conscience.

So you need to look into approaches that involve the heart, rather than the mind. Your “sickness unto death” follows Kierkegaard’s keen observation: “with every increase in the degree of consciousness, and in proportion to that increase, the intensity of despair increases: the more consciousness the more intense the despair”

What is required is reconnecting to the primal, non-rational aspects of yourself, what psychologists call “felt-perception”. You would think, for example, that factually speaking the life of a newborn in the womb is horrible and traumatic. They don’t know anything, they can’t formulate anything, they can’t even begin to make sense of what’s going on.

But that is so only from the perspective of thought. The baby only has access to felt-perception. Thought is something that comes later.

So this is a matter of creating the right relationship between sentiment and thought, between the heart and the mind. At the moment, the mind has the dominant position, which is unnatural. Remember, the mind is merely a excrescence of the evolutionary process, not the goal of life.

Life existed before mind, and it will exist after mind. Indeed, there is no mind without life.

 

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[Spenny]

I'm sorry I've taken a while to respond. Thank you for the tag @matteblack. I feel honoured that I came to mind.

world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience.

I'd say yes and no.

Yes, live in the moment when it applies, and work towards the future. That goes for the past as well. It's not ones and zeros here - A developing individual has to look at all of these things despite what the Bros believe.

The past is needed for reflection, which can influence the future. Past projects, experience, knowledge you've learned, regrets.

The future is where we imagine stuff, a lot of "what ifs" & how we invision something.

The present is where the two of these combine, and we can choose to influence an outcome. I've come to find that no decision is good or bad but will lead to an outcome that may be good or bad in your view.



Live in the moment, but know you're following the Northstar overall. I believe @fastlane_dad said it best. "if you ask how your life is right now & your response is "it's good", then don't sweat the small stuff".

If my response is "no, it's not good" I wonder if I can change a thing - I likely can. Otherwise, I won't stress.

I'm sure you've done that plenty of times, but it's always a nice reminder to breathe & relax.

So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

I agree, but I wouldn't get too micro with it.

I'll be honest: I'm not enjoying my degree right now, but I know it'll afford me a middle-class income for the rest of my life. I'll be able to work a job, quit when I'm doing business, and if it all goes to crap, I can always go back. The joy I'll get from that outweighs what I'm feeling now.

It's the same with the gym. A heavy squat hurts now, but I know it'll make me healthier, stronger, and faster.

Why do I bother doing business? Why do I tolerate it? Because it'll set me up well, I derive much joy from the five-star reviews.

besides, the world has become a bit insufferable

How come? I'd love to hear more on this.

I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

Could you elaborate on what your hell is? Because many people would look at me going to the gym, using a dumbphone, not drinking, running a business AND doing a degree as hell!

Truthfully, it isn't fun at the moment, but I can barely recognise who I was a year ago. It felt like three years of development in a year.

I think pain derives a lot of meaning in life.

Firstly, I struggled with my dyslexia. I had to learn how to make a system and found out how easy it was to run straight through people with A/A*s.

Now, it's stuff I have self-imposed on myself. Business. Gym. A degree. Binning deathscrolling. No alcohol.

No one asked me to, but I lose a lot of joy if I don't. I could indulge in hedonism, but I know where that leads me. Nowhere but staring into the void.

I decided to play a video game for the first time in a year called Lethal Company with some friends, and frankly, I got bored. It was too easy. There was no struggle.

I want to suffer. I derive much of my meaning from my suffering. I've also found happiness is a by-product of that.

When someone asks me how I'm doing, how can I not respond with "Brilliant/Amazing/Fantastic"? I've achieved so much & made so much progress towards my north star.

Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet.

I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this.

People need your contributions, Lex. We need your contributions. I need your contributions

One of the first things I did on this forum was your thread on copywriting. I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I needed to learn this skill.

You taught me the basics of copywriting.

I went on to help many others with how they write their copy.

Now, the website that sells my product has many of your tips integrated into it.

Think about that: a random British guy you've never met directly has used your teachings you wrote about nearly a decade ago to teach other people you've never met. You don't know how far your value spreads.

And look at some of the other threads you've started—the amount of GOLD tags. Hell, even your value post ratio shows people care what you think. I saw somewhere that your "$2k/mo passive income" thread has somewhere in the range of 94k views. The highest view count on the forum. That's the size of Wembley Stadium.



How many people have taken your tips & gone on to make their products to help people? You can't imagine it.

We've not even talked about how many customers have benefitted directly from your products. People's lives are better because of you.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

I don't subscribe to religions, either. Seeing elaborate churches decorated in gold leaf and marble on the backs of starving peasants makes me pessimistic.

However, what powers me every day is my vision. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People urges you to begin with the end in mind. When you're dead and gone, what will others say? What if you died tomorrow? What would they say?

I've thought about that day a lot. I think of it nearly every day. When someone spoke on my behalf about my achievements and, most importantly, what I did for other people, many of my goals went towards that image. If you can't think of that day, a question to ask is: who is Lex Deville in ten years? What does he do? Who is he? Go into depth. What's the vision?

I'll give an example: My vision is to stand on a tall podium in the centre of an expansive field. All around me are people that I have helped. I couldn't see the back of the crowd; there were so many people. If I talked to each, they'd talk about how their lives have been inspired, helped or improved. I would take many magnitudes of lifetimes to speak to each of them.

Such a vision lets me take out of the cookie jar. It makes me run faster. It makes me lift harder. It makes me cultivate my development.

It may be the biggest reason why I keep moving forward like I do because I know people I haven't met yet will rely on me in the future.

I must prepare & be ready for when I meet them. They need me.

I used to think I could live for myself. It was always about me.

I've come to find that I live for others.

If I were the last person on the planet, I'd find it extraordinarily difficult to continue living. I'd likely devote my life to travelling across continents to see a sign of any sentient life.

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

Considering you may be wrong on this stuff, I think you are already far above what many people go through life with. A big reason I love this community is because I witness a lot of people developing themselves and being willing to have their worldly views challenged. Mine certainly has. I've challenged others on it, too.

 

[Lex DeVille]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

 

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[heavy_industry]

So why care while you're alive?

This kind of nihilistic approach is a surefire way to become helplessly depressed and suffer horribly.

Life is already hard and tragic. Very hard and tragic.

Why make it even worse by using this faulty operating system? Why shoot yourself in the foot by using the "nothing matters" approach?

Yes, the universe is F*cking big. Bigger than we can imagine.

And we, both individually and collectively are so meaningless in the grand scheme of things that we - and all of our pathetic human efforts - equate to basically 0. We are nothing.

This entire planet can vanish tomorrow, and no one in the entire universe would miss us.


However...

We're not living on a cosmic scale, where everything becomes meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

We do live on the human scale.

Which means that everything matters, and everything is meaningful.

Everything.

That includes taking care of your child, kindly helping a stranger, or being proud of your day-to-day work in the pursuit of a better future.

Yes, everything will come to an end.

But while it's lasting, why don't we F*cking learn to appreciate the ecstatic beauty of our world and show an ounce of gratitude for what has been given to us?

 

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[Jrjohnny]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but this is how I view life:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBpaUICxEhk


When you dance, there is no end goal, and there is no logical reason for doing it either.

You dance for the sole purpose of dancing.

And the same happens with life.

The only purpose of life is living.

It's to experience this rare gift that has been given to us.

This doesn't mean living hedonistically "for the present moment". I find that the constant pursuit of challenge and difficulty is bringing meaning into my life.

---

We live in a very strange world, whose complexity is orders of magnitude greater than what our primitive minds can comprehend.

The phenomenon of biological life - and existence itself, for that matter - is fundamentally absurd. It has no reason or apparent purpose for existing, and yet, fortunately, it does exist.

I would stop looking for an answer because the answer does not exist.

We're here for a brief amount of time, so don't take things too seriously.

The light will soon go out forever, at which point, there will be only two questions left:

• How beautifully did we live our lives?
• How much good have we done for the world?

So let's try to be kind to one another and work as hard as we can.

While we still can.

I haven’t made a post in a while, but I’m making an exception because I stand by this so much.

Life is about living and enjoying the view. It’s not about reaching the top of the mountain. It’s about enjoying the vast view of valleys, plains, shields, oceans, rivers, sky, and clouds around us.

I recently had the choice to skip out of a fun day of school, called winter activity day, where we can do whatever we want.

I just wanted to skip out and stay home. Something last minute told me to go snowboarding.

I went, woke up early, but. Not like normally, where I would take like 5 minutes to get up.

I would spring out of bed, so full of joy, and immediately got ready.

Reminded me of when, at school, you would have a field trip, you’d wake up so excited.

Because, it’s something new, something exciting and mysterious!

Not the plain old schedule, where you can predict what happens.

As I’m on the bus, I realize this and, everyday of life is suppose to be exciting and mysterious! You’re supposed to spring up out of bed quickly! Ready to take on the day!

I had just recently woke up, and woke up with the biggest smile on my face.

God gave me another day of life. I’m going to enjoy it like it’s my last: because it might frankly be!

I want to be dying with a smile on my face. I want to see my life flash before my eyes and warm up with happiness.

Life is not predictable, not guaranteed, life is the unknown, exciting and mysterious stuff, so wake up everyday knowing you’ve won something more valuable than the lottery!

 

[MTF]

So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

And why you're so sure that not enjoying it at the moment means you're not going to enjoy it later?

When I started freediving, most of my sessions were shitty. I got massive headaches, I got seasick, I got ear pain, I felt like shit for not being able to do what everyone around me was easily doing.

So using this logic, I should have given up. But I didn't. And because I didn't and kept trying, I eventually overcame these problems and now it's one of the best things I've ever done in my life. It's been literally life-changing for me, and maybe even life-saving.

Constantly switching from one thing to another ensures that you'll never get so good at something that it will give you a feeling of flow, and that gives WAY more enjoyment than the initial struggles.

Leaving this Naval Ravikant's quote here that I think you'll enjoy:

Here’s a hot tip: There is no legacy. There’s nothing to leave. We’re all going to be gone. Our children will be gone. Our works will be dust. Our civilizations will be dust. Our planet will be dust. Our solar system will be dust. In the grand scheme of things, the Universe has been around for ten billion years. It’ll be around for another ten billion years.

Your life is a firefly blink in a night. You’re here for such a brief period of time. If you fully acknowledge the futility of what you’re doing, then I think it can bring great happiness and peace because you realize this is a game. But it’s a fun game. All that matters is you experience your reality as you go through life. Why not interpret it in the most positive possible way?

Any moment where you’re not having a great time, when you’re not really happy, you’re not doing anyone any favors. It’s not like your unhappiness makes them better off somehow. All you’re doing is wasting this incredibly small and precious time you have on this Earth. Keeping death on the forefront and not denying it is very important.

Whenever I get caught up in my ego battles, I just think of entire civilizations that have come and gone. For example, take the Sumerians. I’m sure they were important people and did great things, but go ahead and name me a single Sumerian. Tell me anything interesting or important Sumerians did that lasted. Nothing.

So maybe ten thousand years from now or a hundred thousand years from now, people will say, “Oh yeah, Americans. I’ve heard of Americans.”

You’re going to die one day, and none of this is going to matter. So enjoy yourself. Do something positive. Project some love. Make someone happy. Laugh a little bit. Appreciate the moment. And do your work.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any

It matters because you get to enjoy what's in between. It's like saying that it doesn't matter if you stop watching the movie in the middle of it or watch it until the end. It does matter because ending it sooner means missing out on what makes it enjoyable.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

This is what I expect you'll mostly get in return in this thread. Appeals to bearded men in the sky, "duty," "purpose," "legacy," and silly stuff like that, all intended to persuade oneself that one matters in the long term.

Most people are too weak to accept what Naval describes in that quote so you're very unlikely to get people to agree with you or even understand what you're talking about. They'll think you're depressed or suicidal while it's them who can't bear the truth.

It's easier to hide behind these death-denial (in one way or another) concepts than accept the futility (in the grand scheme of things) of everything that we do.

 

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[amp0193]

I hadn't considered this before, but I might be lazy

Have you ever been tested or diagnosed for ADHD?

My wife only recently has learned in her 30s that she has severe ADHD and we're learning a lot about it together. It essentially has a firm grip over her motivation to do anything that she does.

On the surface, without context, one could describe her behavior sometimes as lazy. Yet there are times when she is highly prolific and maniacally focused towards a single objective because that thing is producing so much dopamine, sometimes for weeks or months at a time... Until the moment that it doesn't and that thing/hobby/interest/activity/chore is dropped completely and instantly, and she cannot will it to be done any further. It no longer brings her joy.

It is an ever-constant oscillation between lack of activity, and hyper fixation on a singular thing.

Might be something to take a look at if you haven't before as you try and figure this stuff out.

This thread came on the heels of a comment that I should try committing to something and sticking with it for years (as opposed to frequently creating new progress threads), but I didn't think I could properly explore whether or not that comment warranted consideration without digging into the foundational issues underlying my current and former approaches.

The question for me is not, "how do I change my perspective/approach so I can stick with something for longer?" The question for me is, "what are other perspectives/approaches and what meaning can I make from them? Also, what would adopting all or part of those perspectives/approaches contribute to my existence/life/business, and does that warrant a change?"

Didn't mean to cause the existential crisis here with that comment Lex, but maybe some good is coming from it as you self-reflect?

Longer-term commitment improves odds of success in business (which I generally assume is what people posting here on TFLF are striving for), and I felt compelled to call out what I perceived to be shiny object syndrome (which has been a trap I have fallen into in the past, and one that I want to help others avoid if I can).

But if better success in business isn't what you determine you want or need to be happy/fulfilled/satisfied/ok with your existence and life, then yeah, keep starting and exploring the things that make you happy, as long as they continue to do so, and no judgement from me.

Life has no inherent meaning and you create it to be whatever you want, which will be different than what everyone else wants.

 

[AmazingLarry]

Seems like your thinking is very self-focused. Not saying there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but why should our goal in life be to maximize our own enjoyment and pleasure?

Putting my own personal faith aside, I think putting the happiness of others ahead of yourself is more rewarding and fulfilling than seeking to increase your own happiness and gratification. And it inevitably brings you joy, whether your focus is only a couple people like your close family or a larger group.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Before I respond to anyone, I want note that these are non-confrontational responses. I am breaking things into quotes so I can give proper consideration to the ideas and work through my own thoughts and perspectives on them.

I have not seen life enough to be able to answer or provide meaningful help

I appreciate the self-awareness in your response.

When you dance, there is no end goal, and there is no logical reason for doing it either.

You dance for the sole purpose of dancing.

And the same happens with life.

The only purpose of life is living.

It's to experience this rare gift that has been given to us.

This doesn't mean living hedonistically "for the present moment". I find that the constant pursuit of challenge and difficulty is bringing meaning into my life.

I would agree that living is the purpose of life. In this regard, I think we're of a similar mindset. I enjoy challenges and difficulty. I also wouldn't describe myself as living for the moment. It's more like maintaining awareness of the satisfaction with my present state and then adjusting course if that state is less than what I feel it should be. I do not try to be present all the time.

We live in a very strange world, whose complexity is orders of magnitude greater than what our primitive minds can comprehend.

The phenomenon of biological life - and existence itself, for that matter - is fundamentally absurd. It has no reason or apparent purpose for existing, and yet, fortunately, it does exist.

I would stop looking for an answer because the answer does not exist.

We're here for a brief amount of time, so don't take things too seriously.

Yes, absurd. I'm not sure I understand what makes it fortunate, though. An answer for *why* we are here may not exist, so I don't look for that. I also don't take life very seriously. I do struggle with whether or not to continue to participate in this existence.

Regarding the piano and dancing analogies, I agree with all of that. I play piano for fun. I'm learning German for fun. I try business ideas for fun. If/when those stop providing satisfaction, then I stop doing them.

The light will soon go out forever, at which point, there will be only two questions left:

• How beautifully did we live our lives?
• How much good have we done for the world?

So let's try to be kind to one another and work as hard as we can.

While we still can.

If my light goes out, there are no questions left. Existence itself ceases to exist for me and for all that was experienced within that reality. I'm not in disagreement that it is good to be kind to one another or to work hard, and that is generally my approach to life as well.

Try to find time to read Viktor Frankl's "Mans Search for Meaning".

It's not what happens around us or our actions that dictate our happiness. It's the meaning we attach to those events. If you can reframe your mind to see the positive in even the most traumatic experience, you can gain happiness or satisfaction from it.

I've stopped searching for meaning and instead do what feels satisfying; however, I would describe it as difficult to see the positive when the outcome is all but certainly negative. That said, I am generally happy with life. Sometimes there are areas that I might improve on, so I try to improve them. Something I am not yet satisfied with is existence itself.

Seems like your thinking is very self-focused. Not saying there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but why should our goal in life be to maximize our own enjoyment and pleasure?

Putting my own personal faith aside, I think putting the happiness of others ahead of yourself is more rewarding and fulfilling than seeking to increase your own happiness and gratification. And it inevitably brings you joy, whether your focus is only a couple people like your close family or a larger group.

I would describe myself as being self-focused. If I cease to exist, then nothing in my reality exists. Even if an external reality exists, then I become disconnected from such a reality upon death. So it seems that only my existence matters since the end of that existence either is (or might as well be) the end of all existence.

I haven't found it particularly satisfying to put the happiness of others over my own. Partly because I don't think it matters and partly because humans don't do anything without a selfish intent. It is nice when other people have a good experience, but they have that experience alone, just as I have my experience alone. Nonetheless, I wouldn't say I lack joy or fulfillment, which is why I'm not convinced that the perspective from my initial post is faulty.

 

[MJ DeMarco]

So, at least on some level, I do care about helping others. I was wrong about that before.

You indeed do help folks, you've helped many folks here over the years with a diverse variety of informative posts.

Side tangent: What part of Utah are you in? Why Utah? Was it a permanent move?

 

[Cameraman]

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Try to find time to read Viktor Frankl's "Mans Search for Meaning".

It's not what happens around us or our actions that dictate our happiness. It's the meaning we attach to those events. If you can reframe your mind to see the positive in even the most traumatic experience, you can gain happiness or satisfaction from it.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

 

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[Kevin88660]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

The solution is very simple.

You should build a business around generating, identifying, and understanding business ideas.

This solves the monogamous necessity for long-term success while leveraging your non-monogamous talent/passion.

This is a gap between what people surf online (twitter, youtube, ig) for business ideas and actual businesses that are thriving offline.

This also involves a ground walk in interviewing people in the trade. There is no better way to understand abt car repo better than getting interviews done with them. In general, businesses welcome publicity as free advertising.

The best approach would be business journalism. A typical young journalist in the 20s doesn't know how to ask the right questions whereas you have much more experience running things (running different businesses and hustle since 2007).

There is always a gap in knowledge between media perception and INSIDERS who went through thick and thin. This is true for all fields. When it comes to financial news other than Bloomberg and Seekalpha many other big brand names do tend to consistently produce low-quality articles based on circulated media hype.

If you are not a practitioner you have zero ability to distinguish media hype from reality.

 

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[MTF]

However, what powers me every day is my vision. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People urges you to begin with the end in mind. When you're dead and gone, what will others say? What if you died tomorrow? What would they say?

I've thought about that day a lot. I think of it nearly every day. When someone spoke on my behalf about my achievements and, most importantly, what I did for other people, many of my goals went towards that image. If you can't think of that day, a question to ask is: who is Lex Deville in ten years? What does he do? Who is he? Go into depth. What's the vision?

This always fascinates me. Why would you care what they say about you when you're dead? You wouldn't know. It would have no impact on you. It would have no impact on anyone else. Why does this motivate you?

The truth is that when you're gone (or anyone else for that matter), in a few months nobody except maybe a few people will even remember you existed. So why care while you're alive? Of course, be a good person, enjoy the relationship now. But why care what they say when you stop existing?

 

[Andy Black]

there are times when she is highly prolific and maniacally focused towards a single objective because that thing is producing so much dopamine, sometimes for weeks or months at a time... Until the moment that it doesn't and that thing/hobby/interest/activity/chore is dropped completely and instantly, and she cannot will it to be done any further. It no longer brings her joy.

It is an ever-constant oscillation between lack of activity, and hyper fixation on a singular thing.

One of my sons is like that. As soon as something grips him he's down the rabbit-hole obsessing over it. Then he just stops. He might pick it up again a few months later, after a period of inactivity or obsessing about something else.

I'm a bit like that too I think. I have numerous "Figuring Out XYZ" threads as I like to start something, break the back of it, then move on.

I've learned to lean into it. It means I've actually "had a go" at lots of different things and can talk about them with business owners because I've done them. (I've a Twitter account with 1,700 followers, a YouTube channel with 1,200 subs, a LinkedIn profile with nearly 12,000 followers, I've been a podcast host, on the radio, given presentations in person, online, sold courses one-off, sold courses in memberships, ran a paid Xenforo forum, free and paid Facebook groups, free and paid newsletters, etc.)

I was on Snapchat years ago and built up a following. I've a TikTok account with maybe 20 videos where one video hit 10k views. I've done short vertical videos and long landscape videos and everything in between. Some are talking head, some are screenshare. Some ad lib and unedited, some lightly edited, some excruciatingly edited.

It seems I'm all over the place, but it helps me land clients. They come through to me asking for Google Ads help and I can talk about other channels not because I've read about them, but because I had a go myself, hit publish, and kept going till I got a bit of traction. They can tell I've done it from the way I talk about it, and I'll often share them on the Zoom call to "show, don't tell" the advice I'm giving them.

So what's consistent for me? What can I NOT stop doing?

Google Ads. People come along with lots of different niches and that satisfies my shiny object syndrome. I've been doing it since 2009 and it never gets old for me to hear about brand new niches and then starting the keyword research and campaigns to figure out if Google Ads will work for them. I'm currently leaning into NOT being niched down by going after funded startups or whale clients in different niches - where I'll charge more than the smaller local service clients I was going for previously.

Posting in the forum and hopping on Zoom calls with people. I've been here nearly 10 years and barely missed a day logging in and posting. It's organic and I've no idea what I'll read each day, or what will come out of my mouth responding. I'm trying to move some of that replying and posting "itch" to LinkedIn to see if I can be as prolific and as helpful over there. That's my current "Figuring Out XYZ".

The Zoom calls bring me business in an indirect way. The people I help for free refer me to people. Keep helping one person a week and the referal machine snowballs. Can I leverage that better by recording and publishing them? Probably, but I don't want them to be long rambling calls and I often talk about or show things I don't want published. (I also don't want to become a creator or influencer which means I've mental handbrakes on, rightly or wrongly. )

Oh, and I've a few bucket list business ideas I'm working on in the background, that use my Google Ads skills and allows me to help people at scale, using all the experience I've picked up about newsletters, courses, videos, email list building via Google Ads, etc.

I mention all this to say I know I bounce around a lot but I lean into it so each time I come full circle I've built a slightly higher moat. I imagine it's like going round in circles but up a corkscrew tower.

Anyway... hope that helps you Lex.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

It wouldn't let me send a pm so I'll just put it here.

I don't know why but Descartes keeps popping up and it makes me think of your mini existential crisis. I thought I'd send some book recommendations and a quote.

"A dominant model, as old as Plato but rebirthed by Descartes and cultivated throughout modernity, sees the human person as fundamentally a thinking thing. Recall Descartes’ basic project as outlined in Discourse on Method and his later Meditations. Racked with anxiety because his prior certainties have become shipwrecked on the shores of later doubt, Descartes finds himself in an existential crisis: If things that have seemed so certain to him can later be unveiled as false, then how can he be certain about anything? Trying to tackle this angst head-on, Descartes retreats to isolation in a room for several days, simply in order to think his way through the problem. (How different would the world be if Descartes could have just gotten a date?!) You probably know the rough-and-ready outline of the story: meditating on the conditions for knowledge, Descartes sets about to discover if anything can be known with certainty. After writing off the senses and the body as sources of deception and doubt, and even the realm of mathematical truths, Descartes despairs whether anything is certain. While I might think that 2 + 2 = 4 is a certain truth, it is at least possible that God is an evil demon, toying with me, and deceiving me into thinking that’s obviously true, when in fact it is not. Almost swallowed by this sea of raging doubt, Descartes catches a glimpse of hope—a sort of intellectual beacon that promises solid ground. For, he reasons, even if I’m being deceived about what seems most certain, it must be the case that, in order for me to be deceived, I must exist. And so, in the Meditations, Descartes’ famous maxim “I think, therefore I am” takes on an even starker form: “I’m deceived, therefore I am”—because even if I am being deceived, I would have to exist in order to be deceived. With this insight, Descartes’ battered vessel in search of certainty finally reaches a shore.[2]

So, with certainty, Descartes concludes that I am. But this raises the next question: What am I? Just what is the nature of this “I” that most certainly exists? Having cast aside the senses and the body already in his meditations, Descartes concludes that “I” am “a thinking thing.” In other words, what I am is an essentially immaterial mind or consciousness—occasionally and temporarily embodied, but not essentially.[3] This bequeaths to us a dominant and powerful picture of the human person as fundamentally a thinking thing—a cognitive machine defined, above all, by thought and rational operations."

<<<<some other paragraphs>>>

"It is just this adoption of a rationalist, cognitivist anthropology that accounts for the shape of so much Protestant worship as a heady affair fixated on “messages” that disseminate Christian ideas and abstract values (easily summarized on PowerPoint slides).[5] The result is a talking-head version of Christianity that is fixated on doctrines and ideas, even if it is also paradoxically allied with a certain kind of anti-intellecutalism. We could describe this as “bobble head” Christianity, so fixated on the cognitive that it assumes a picture of human beings that look like bobble heads: mammoth heads that dwarf an almost nonexistent body. In sum, because the church buys into a cognitivist anthropology, it adopts a stunted pedagogy that is fixated on the mind. So rather than calling into question this reductionistic picture of the human person, the church simply tries to feed different ideas through the same intellectual IV."

<<<<<half a chapter later>>>>>>

"In contrast, we need a nonreductionistic understanding of human persons as embodied agents of desire or love. This Augustinian model of human persons resists the rationalism and quasi-rationalism of the earlier models by shifting the center of gravity of human identity, as it were, down from the heady regions of mind closer to the central regions of our bodies, in particular, our kardia—our gut or heart. The point is to emphasize that the way we inhabit the world is not primarily as thinkers, or even believers, but as more affective, embodied creatures who make our way in the world more by feeling our way around it. Like the blind men pictured in Rembrandt’s sketches, for the most part we make our way in the world with hands outstretched, in an almost tactile groping with our bodies.[13] One might say that in our everyday, mundane being-in-the-world, we don’t lead with our head, so to speak; we lead out with our heart and hands."

~Desiring the Kingdom, James KA Smith
I think you should read/listen to:

The Chosen by Chaim Potok (novel)

The Aquinas Lectures by Peter Kreeft

The Abolition of Man by CS Lewis
Little known fact about CS Lewis, which you won't find in many Christian circles, is that as a young man he was quite playful and bold about his dominant sexual predilections, specifically spanking.

Till We Have Faces was the only novel he wrote with the help of his wife, who died from cancer soon after. I recommend that book too.

Since you have a high iq and you can't find any peace unless you're properly feeding your mind (business goals, language, books, etc) I'm assuming you've done precisely what James KA Smith discusses in Desiring the Kingdom. You've grown bigger in mind than in heart. In order to rectify the situation you'll need novels, relationships, nature, and art instead of information books, pragmatic transactions, cubicles and machines.

Hope something of that helps.

 

[matteblack]

I have not seen life enough to be able to answer or provide meaningful help
but i am gonna list some people hoping that they don't miss this post
@Johnny boy
@Kak
@heavy_industry
@Andy Black
@RightyTighty
@Spenny
@MJ DeMarco
@eliquid
@DarkKnight

I am hoping that your repo business becomes successful (hands crossed)

personal - I have never felt the feeling of utter joy and passion that people keep talking about but I never cared
I keep learning video editing daily and freelancing
When you want a better life so badly that you don't give a shit about the happy feelings that is when it becomes fun
I hope you can find that energy

 

[S.Y.]

Death is inevitable; tomorrow is not promised. I choose not to depart faster but to make the most of whatever I have. And I have people that I care for. I owe my son to be there for him, or at the very least, not to hasten not being there for him.

I value life more because of its finitude.

Those moments that you say don't matter actually do. We lost a dear friend suddenly late last year. I am 100% certain that he didn't know how much he touched people's lives and how seemingly small moments are being cherished.

It is on you to change your mind. Absurdism and Existentialism deal with what you are going through. I suggest exploring what thinkers in that realm wrote, starting with Camus. If you haven't already.

 

[AceVentures]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

My perspective on the matter is simple:

You're retarded.

I don't mean this as an insult. I mean it literally. And by the way I learned I too was retarded.

90% of us I would say, maybe more, are by any measure of human function retarded.

We have arrested development.

From very early on in our childhood.

We experience physical, social, and environmental mending of our nervous system's fear-anxiety response.

We don't measure it directly in adults. But we should.

The social metric is a lie.

You can be a lawyer.
You can be an accountant.
You can be an entrepreneur.

But what of all of your functions, which are typically measured and tracked during infancy? Your hearing? Your coordination? Your eyesight? Your sense of pain? Your ability to learn? Your speech?

And those are just the basics of what it takes to grow and mature as a person.

But what of the potency of your being?

Can you sing?
Can you play an instrument?
Can you draw?
Can you dance?
Can you throw? Jump? Swim? Run?
Can you sit? For an hour? Without excruciating pain?

Maybe all the words mean nothing - and you're just retarded. Your inabilities to sense and move in the world, the mal-adaptations of your nervous system, have inhibited your thought and feelings. The inhibitions within your sensory-motor cortex manifest as a system devoid of feelings for life.

The words I use are to simplify the model, and I mean no offense.

This is my perspective.
It is largely developed from principles of neurophysiology, pathology of illness and psychophysics.

 

[Lex DeVille]

People tend to deny the phenomena proved by science, like the earth's shape, Man's landing on the moon, etc etc, and you seek the advice and opinion of people on something as obtrusive as Death?

In my opinion, no one is eligible to give real advice on Death because the dead don't talk. Those who are alive, have no experience of death either!

From point A to B, A being Birth and B being Death, all you can do is focus on the journey in between. Live your life well. Love, get loved, drive the fast cars, buy luxury mansions, laugh, dance, celebrate!

Death is an unsolvable puzzle, why waste time to decode it?

Ah, that is more clear. Thanks for explaining.

I don't know the arguments surrounding the moon landing, but I have seen interesting arguments for the Earth being flat. I don't have an opinion on that because I simply don't care lol.

In this thread I seek perspectives to explore life/business/existence that might differ from my own. The general consensus is that we should enjoy life/existence because we will die. The general consensus is also that it is better to commit to a business idea for an extended period.

Death as Truth:
René Descartes doubted everything. He proposed a method for establishing a foundation of knowledge that says, if an idea can be doubted at all, then the truth of that idea is false. This is how he arrived at his undeniable truth (I think, therefore I am) which was his basis for determining everything else.

Can the inevitability of death be doubted at all? Yes, because I doubt it, as do many others. Therefore, the inevitability of death is false. Interestingly, Descartes, followed this approach to determine that "God" exists and is not deceptive.

Life vs. Existence
These are separate ideas. From day to day, I enjoy life. I play piano, study language, explore ideas. I face and overcome hard challenges. I feel happy, angry, sad and I enjoy all of this. Existence, however, is forced upon us. It presents opportunities for boundless joy that are then taken back one by one until we wither and die, and we exist with the knowledge that this is likely to happen. I would rather have not existed than know the joy of fatherhood and be forced to suffer the conscious awareness that eventually, I will be removed from my child's life or she from mine. I do not agree that it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. This does not mean I am suicidal. It only highlights how I can love life but not existence.

Death is Probable
I will likely die, and, assuming I live long enough, that death will likely follow from the diseases of old age (such as Alzheimer's). For as long as I am more likely to die than not and for as long as that death will follow from the eventual decline of my body and mind, then this existence is akin to a noir story. There are moments where it seems like things are improving, but the story ends poorly for the character all the same. Nonetheless, death remains a probability - a false truth deeply embedded within us from our earliest years and reinforced by society at large, so it is accepted as an inevitable truth.

Is X Path Better Than (m)Y?
This is ultimately the purpose of the thread. I have not concluded that my perspectives and approaches to life/business are better/worse (or more/less correct) than others. I have only concluded that my perspective is the most reasonable based on my reasoning up to this point. Since there remains a shred of doubt about the truth of what I just said, then it means it could be false. So I created the thread to share thoughts with a group of people whose perspectives I value, especially because they frequently differ from my own.

All of Life is Beautiful
The general consensus is that humans should strive to be happy with and make the most of the time they have. Sadness, depression, rage, hatred, cowardice, envy, selfishness, etc. are frowned upon as *bad* and to be avoided. Yet, television such as Sopranos, Dexter, Drive, Breaking Bad, etc. exist and we love them which highlights a capacity for humans to enjoy negative approaches to life. The shows are "fiction," yet they exist and can be experienced and therefore are "real."

As I make my way through life, I enjoy the act of living and being alive, and I also find beauty and joy in life's dark side - not just viewing from the outside, but being on the inside. It's a stark contrast from the general consensus but I have not concluded that it is better or worse, only that it is a different story being written one day at a time.

Commitment
This thread came on the heels of a comment that I should try committing to something and sticking with it for years (as opposed to frequently creating new progress threads), but I didn't think I could properly explore whether or not that comment warranted consideration without digging into the foundational issues underlying my current and former approaches.

The question for me is not, "how do I change my perspective/approach so I can stick with something for longer?" The question for me is, "what are other perspectives/approaches and what meaning can I make from them? Also, what would adopting all or part of those perspectives/approaches contribute to my existence/life/business, and does that warrant a change?"

Lastly
I find great joy in working through these ideas in writing and examining areas that challenge my views. I don't know everything. I'm not certain about anything. I'm curious about a lot of things.

 

[Matt Sun]

Does it make you think something that the motto of satanism is "Do What Thou Wilt " ? I truly think there isn't a single atheist in this world. Humans are religious creatures and you end up worshiping something either you want it or not. It can be karma, "the universe" or "your desires".

Perhaps reading stoics such as Seneca might be of help. The stoics concluded that freedom it's to live according to nature which they also say is to follow God. And that it's crazy to prefer be dragged by this power than to follow. We don't have much choice in the matter, we are born with certain needs and desires such as hunger, lust, etc. We can seek the harmonious ways in which nature or God which ever way you prefer to call designated for us to fulfill this needs, mostly in moderation. Or we can just live for them and what we desire and become slaves to gluttony, sex, power etc. I think there are countless historical examples showing this doesn't end well nor for the individual or his loved ones either.

Just my two cents on the matter, maybe reading Seneca's letter can give you new ideas on how to approach this complex topics.

 

[Lex DeVille]

You indeed do help folks, you've helped many folks here over the years with a diverse variety of informative posts.

Side tangent: What part of Utah are you in? Why Utah? Was it a permanent move?

I'm in Layton, north of SLC. Utah has been on my list of places to move for a long time. I wanted to be near the mountains. Colorado was closer, but I didn't like the vibe. I still have a house in Missouri, but I handed it over to a property manager. Not planning to go back anytime soon.

 

[Simon Angel]

When I have such thoughts I turn to sex and adrenaline. I've been thinking about all of this my whole life so far and it's exhausting.

I think the answer, as cheesy as it sounds, is love. Like, the infatuating kind of love.

My best memories are from my childhood (even though it wasn't a great one, especially with divorced parents) and my first love. When that love was taken away, I nearly died.

So love and family are probably the answer. I know you're divorced and that must suck donkey balls. No matter what enjoyment and satisfaction you get from life, you're still a single parent.

I also disagree that you're not depressed, but I won't go into detail.

Anyway, I've got massive health anxiety and worry about death, too.

Will I live long enough? Did I let someone go when I shouldn't have?

Why have I never loved anyone as much as my first girlfriend, why was that so magical? Why do I still dream about her sometimes after so many years?

Am I destined to never be that happy again or did the breakup experience scar me?

I also have this weird fear that I do not appreciate/value the present as much as I should, as if I don't truly realize what I have until I lose it some day. Feelings of nostalgia and longing of the past tear me up like nothing else.

Will I live long enough to learnt the truth about extraterrestrial life? What about advanced past human civilisations?

Will I be able to transfer my consciousness to something like a hard drive and "live" as long as I decide to?

Everyone dies – from the most important people with the most interesting, dramatic, and meaningful lives... To those whose existence was, ultimately, futile and pointless.

The question is, will I get answers before I go? Do I even deserve answers or am I just a random human who was at the right place and time to see a UFO out of a freaking sci-fi movie?

And I haven't even scratched the surface.

Until then, I make an effort to imbue meaning in any way possible and take life day by day.

And now I'm going to get out of bed to work on my clients because all of this would be much worse without money.

What I wrote probably won't help you or be relatable. But this is my personal existential crisis which I wanted to share, even though it's different from yours, because it probably torments us all the same.

Oh, and helping others is great. We all have some existential angst going on (on top of everyday life) which can easily make us shortsighted and indifferent to other people's struggles in our community.

Helping the way you did was awesome and you were effectively a hero to that woman. God didn't save her (or did he?) but you and another mortal man did. That's power, and it was used for good.

 

[DarkKnight]

NA

 

[Timmy C]

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Both change and death are normal but how we all perceive them can be different. It is nuanced.
You won't enjoy everything you do, and I think that just throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't good.

I don't enjoy getting on a lacrosse ball for 30 minutes a week and digging it into my hip flexors and rotator cuffs. I actually hate it, and it is painful. But I like what comes after, and that is improved mobility and less pain in my day-to-day life.

It is very much situational dependent.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

You are already going to die, why speed it up, how does this benefit anyone? Today is never a good day to die Lex.

Do you think the act of dying itself wouldn't absolutely suck? Do you think it wouldn't be painful and a horrific experience? It most likely will be, and IS for most of us when we die.

From what I know you have a family, and a child that would be very saddened to not have a father.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

Well yeh, if overcoming death means you are in a perpetual hell then it makes sense to end it. But I don't see how this should be considered as a viable option until all your viable options are exhausted. Hell doesn't always have to be long term and permanent, but if it 100% is I get your point.

Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

You touched on you being selfish in this thread, so I think that's why you have come to this conclusion. But man, that's such a shit thing to consider for various reasons. Are you living in hell now? I believe that if you think you are, that you are kidding yourself. But then again I do not know the details of your life, how you experience this world on a daily basis and what your real struggles are that you don't tell any of us about, and that don't make it to a forum post.

It doesn't appear that you are ''suicidal'' to me which is what I first thought when I read your initial post, it just seems to be something you have given a fair bit of thought to.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

You have 2 forces at play that it seems you struggle with.

Enjoying today, the present moment with the decisions you make now, and enjoying the future based on your current decisions and whether you are making the right choices.

Quitting a business idea that you aren't that excited for and dying in the next few years would be a great decision if your timeline till death was a few years yeh.

It would be a bad decision if that business would have made you a multimillionaire in a few short years and you lived another 30 years to enjoy the toils of your hard work. If you succeed that is.

You will never know that answer, and analyzing these decisions constantly makes life lame for me personally.