Existential Thoughts: Change My Mind

[Lex DeVille]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[matteblack]

I have not seen life enough to be able to answer or provide meaningful help
but i am gonna list some people hoping that they don't miss this post
@Johnny boy
@Kak
@heavy_industry
@Andy Black
@RightyTighty
@Spenny
@MJ DeMarco
@eliquid
@DarkKnight

I am hoping that your repo business becomes successful (hands crossed)

personal - I have never felt the feeling of utter joy and passion that people keep talking about but I never cared
I keep learning video editing daily and freelancing
When you want a better life so badly that you don't give a shit about the happy feelings that is when it becomes fun
I hope you can find that energy

 

[heavy_industry]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but this is how I view life:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBpaUICxEhk


When you dance, there is no end goal, and there is no logical reason for doing it either.

You dance for the sole purpose of dancing.

And the same happens with life.

The only purpose of life is living.

It's to experience this rare gift that has been given to us.

This doesn't mean living hedonistically "for the present moment". I find that the constant pursuit of challenge and difficulty is bringing meaning into my life.

---

We live in a very strange world, whose complexity is orders of magnitude greater than what our primitive minds can comprehend.

The phenomenon of biological life - and existence itself, for that matter - is fundamentally absurd. It has no reason or apparent purpose for existing, and yet, fortunately, it does exist.

I would stop looking for an answer because the answer does not exist.

We're here for a brief amount of time, so don't take things too seriously.

The light will soon go out forever, at which point, there will be only two questions left:

• How beautifully did we live our lives?
• How much good have we done for the world?

So let's try to be kind to one another and work as hard as we can.

While we still can.

 

[Cameraman]

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Try to find time to read Viktor Frankl's "Mans Search for Meaning".

It's not what happens around us or our actions that dictate our happiness. It's the meaning we attach to those events. If you can reframe your mind to see the positive in even the most traumatic experience, you can gain happiness or satisfaction from it.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[AmazingLarry]

Seems like your thinking is very self-focused. Not saying there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but why should our goal in life be to maximize our own enjoyment and pleasure?

Putting my own personal faith aside, I think putting the happiness of others ahead of yourself is more rewarding and fulfilling than seeking to increase your own happiness and gratification. And it inevitably brings you joy, whether your focus is only a couple people like your close family or a larger group.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Before I respond to anyone, I want note that these are non-confrontational responses. I am breaking things into quotes so I can give proper consideration to the ideas and work through my own thoughts and perspectives on them.

I have not seen life enough to be able to answer or provide meaningful help

I appreciate the self-awareness in your response.

When you dance, there is no end goal, and there is no logical reason for doing it either.

You dance for the sole purpose of dancing.

And the same happens with life.

The only purpose of life is living.

It's to experience this rare gift that has been given to us.

This doesn't mean living hedonistically "for the present moment". I find that the constant pursuit of challenge and difficulty is bringing meaning into my life.

I would agree that living is the purpose of life. In this regard, I think we're of a similar mindset. I enjoy challenges and difficulty. I also wouldn't describe myself as living for the moment. It's more like maintaining awareness of the satisfaction with my present state and then adjusting course if that state is less than what I feel it should be. I do not try to be present all the time.

We live in a very strange world, whose complexity is orders of magnitude greater than what our primitive minds can comprehend.

The phenomenon of biological life - and existence itself, for that matter - is fundamentally absurd. It has no reason or apparent purpose for existing, and yet, fortunately, it does exist.

I would stop looking for an answer because the answer does not exist.

We're here for a brief amount of time, so don't take things too seriously.

Yes, absurd. I'm not sure I understand what makes it fortunate, though. An answer for *why* we are here may not exist, so I don't look for that. I also don't take life very seriously. I do struggle with whether or not to continue to participate in this existence.

Regarding the piano and dancing analogies, I agree with all of that. I play piano for fun. I'm learning German for fun. I try business ideas for fun. If/when those stop providing satisfaction, then I stop doing them.

The light will soon go out forever, at which point, there will be only two questions left:

• How beautifully did we live our lives?
• How much good have we done for the world?

So let's try to be kind to one another and work as hard as we can.

While we still can.

If my light goes out, there are no questions left. Existence itself ceases to exist for me and for all that was experienced within that reality. I'm not in disagreement that it is good to be kind to one another or to work hard, and that is generally my approach to life as well.

Try to find time to read Viktor Frankl's "Mans Search for Meaning".

It's not what happens around us or our actions that dictate our happiness. It's the meaning we attach to those events. If you can reframe your mind to see the positive in even the most traumatic experience, you can gain happiness or satisfaction from it.

I've stopped searching for meaning and instead do what feels satisfying; however, I would describe it as difficult to see the positive when the outcome is all but certainly negative. That said, I am generally happy with life. Sometimes there are areas that I might improve on, so I try to improve them. Something I am not yet satisfied with is existence itself.

Seems like your thinking is very self-focused. Not saying there's anything wrong with that necessarily, but why should our goal in life be to maximize our own enjoyment and pleasure?

Putting my own personal faith aside, I think putting the happiness of others ahead of yourself is more rewarding and fulfilling than seeking to increase your own happiness and gratification. And it inevitably brings you joy, whether your focus is only a couple people like your close family or a larger group.

I would describe myself as being self-focused. If I cease to exist, then nothing in my reality exists. Even if an external reality exists, then I become disconnected from such a reality upon death. So it seems that only my existence matters since the end of that existence either is (or might as well be) the end of all existence.

I haven't found it particularly satisfying to put the happiness of others over my own. Partly because I don't think it matters and partly because humans don't do anything without a selfish intent. It is nice when other people have a good experience, but they have that experience alone, just as I have my experience alone. Nonetheless, I wouldn't say I lack joy or fulfillment, which is why I'm not convinced that the perspective from my initial post is faulty.

 

[Johnny boy]

“Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.
Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil.
Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.”

Your greatest mistake is you have become your own god.

If you were so wise, wouldn’t you have what you want? You know yourself the best, more intimately than anything else, yet you cannot make even yourself satisfied. How can you be so wise then? How can you know what is real and what is true and what is right and what is wrong, if you can’t so much as keep yourself satisfied enough to not contemplate destroying yourself.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

It is pointless but it is not your body or life to destroy. It is a gift you were giving that you don’t deserve and it is astonishing you would not show appreciation for such a fantastic gift.

You are 10000% going to die bro. Spoiler alert.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Recipe for regret and emptiness: “doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment”.

You have been given a gift and don’t see it as a gift because you are too arrogant to accept who gave it to you, what your duties are, and think that you can figure everything out for yourself.

It very clearly has not been working.

To be selfish and ask what can be done for you, or to think all actions are meant to satisfy you, is a thought for a child.

The thought of a man revolves around his duty. A man fulfilling his duties spends little time questioning his fulfillment in life.

I think from your lifestyle and people you’ve probably been around, that your views are warped. Hedonistic, college educated and arrogant. Until years later they’re sitting in a lonely pool of tears.

You are going to die. Life itself has no objective meaning and it is pointless. You were given life and don’t deserve it so show some appreciation. You have duties as a man and it is your job to do what needs to be done which will give you a semblance of meaning and will give you satisfaction that is enduring and not empty. You are stupid so don’t be so sure that there is no God. Let go of your arrogance because it is quite clear you have not done a good job at being your own leader if you are sad.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[RightyTighty]

Sounds like you’re way too much inside your own head. I’ve been there. Here are a few things to try:

Go by the hospital and make a trip to the maternity ward viewing room. Spend a few minutes looking through the glass at the babies in the buckets. There’s a lot of energy and hope in that space, and there is something affirming about seeing all of those newly minted little people.

Get some exercise, especially outdoors. Golf, ride a horse, paddle a canoe, go on a hike. I prefer solitude in the deep woods; I’m not especially religious but the forest always feels like a cathedral and makes me feel like I’m a part of something bigger.

And the best way to get out of your head is to give your time to others. Call your elderly aunt just to say hello. Visit an assisted living and talk to some lonely people. Work a shift at the soup kitchen. If you’re not a people person go to the animal shelter and bathe dogs. You’ll feel more connected and you’ll feel better about yourself.

Beware of seeking happiness. It is ill-defined and fleeting. Instead, try to find some joy in each day. It is always there if you look for it.

In all of your “executing”, make sure you take time to execute things along the way that feed your soul. Balance is extremely important. In your case I also recommend you talk to your primary care physician. I know from experience how life-changing SSRI meds can be when you’re in a dark hole.

My personal philosophy is that at the end of the day you have nothing but relationships. How do you affect the lives of others and how will they remember you? I try to keep in at least moderate touch with family and friends, and try to share my experience with others to hopefully provide value. I especially enjoy talking with younger people I’ve met on this forum (“younger” includes pretty much everybody!). Your drive and energy give me hope for the future.

 

[Lex DeVille]

If you were so wise, wouldn’t you have what you want? You know yourself the best, more intimately than anything else, yet you cannot make even yourself satisfied.

Generally, I appreciate your forum posts. I don't think you read anything I wrote or else otherwise completely misinterpreted it to fit what you want to think about me. I am not dissatisfied with my life. I have many of the things I want, and continue to pursue other things that I want.

How can you know what is real and what is true and what is right and what is wrong, if you can’t so much as keep yourself satisfied enough to not contemplate destroying yourself.

I don't know what is real or true and I don't claim to know that. You also don't know, although based on your post, it seems we're not different in being influenced by the institutions we've surrounded ourselves with.

It is pointless but it is not your body or life to destroy. It is a gift you were giving that you don’t deserve and it is astonishing you would not show appreciation for such a fantastic gift.

I don't see what is so astonishing about not appreciating something that I didn't asked for and that was forced upon me.

You are 10000% going to die bro. Spoiler alert.

This statement is probably correct, but not a certainty.

Recipe for regret and emptiness: “doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment”.

Maybe, but what makes that worse than the alternative?

You have been given a gift and don’t see it as a gift because you are too arrogant to accept who gave it to you, what your duties are, and think that you can figure everything out for yourself.

It doesn't matter who gave it to me. Framing something as a gift doesn't make it a gift. The act of gift-giving doesn't create a duty to appreciate the "gift" either. Claiming a spiritual force guides your choices doesn't make it true, real, correct, or anything other than a baseless claim with the exception of your anecdotal evidence that says otherwise.

It very clearly has not been working.

To be selfish and ask what can be done for you, or to think all actions are meant to satisfy you, is a thought for a child.

The thought of a man revolves around his duty. A man fulfilling his duties spends little time questioning his fulfillment in life.

I'm not sure what you mean by "very clearly has not been working." Maybe in comparison to what you view as "success" or "a good life." Since I don't measure my life by your expectations, this doesn't make sense.

I'm not questioning my fulfillment. I'm not depressed. I'm not unhappy. I do what I do and people make statements about what they think I should do and how I should live, so I created this thread to open up a discussion about alternative perspectives from my own to see if I might find another view that seems more reasonable, and if so, I would consider adopting that view.

I think from your lifestyle and people you’ve probably been around, that your views are warped. Hedonistic, college educated and arrogant. Until years later they’re sitting in a lonely pool of tears.

What lifestyle is that, exactly? Who are "those" people? I attend a Christian college, but you would define me by my education as if it means something.

You are going to die. Life itself has no objective meaning and it is pointless. You were given life and don’t deserve it so show some appreciation. You have duties as a man and it is your job to do what needs to be done which will give you a semblance of meaning and will give you satisfaction that is enduring and not empty. You are stupid so don’t be so sure that there is no God. Let go of your arrogance because it is quite clear you have not done a good job at being your own leader if you are sad.

Respectfully, I disagree that I have any duties at all or should have appreciation for anything that I didn't ask for and that was forced upon me.

Also, you've made the mistaken assumptions that A) I am sad, and B) that I do not believe in God.

 

[Johnny boy]

Generally, I appreciate your forum posts. I don't think you read anything I wrote or else otherwise completely misinterpreted it to fit what you want to think about me. I am not dissatisfied with my life. I have many of the things I want, and continue to pursue other things that I want.


I don't know what is real or true and I don't claim to know that. You also don't know, although based on your post, it seems we're not different in being influenced by the institutions we've surrounded ourselves with.


I don't see what is so astonishing about not appreciating something that I didn't asked for and that was forced upon me.


This statement is probably correct, but not a certainty.


Maybe, but what makes that worse than the alternative?


It doesn't matter who gave it to me. Framing something as a gift doesn't make it a gift. The act of gift-giving doesn't create a duty to appreciate the "gift" either. Claiming a spiritual force guides your choices doesn't make it true, real, correct, or anything other than a baseless claim with the exception of your anecdotal evidence that says otherwise.


I'm not sure what you mean by "very clearly has not been working." Maybe in comparison to what you view as "success" or "a good life." Since I don't measure my life by your expectations, this doesn't make sense.

I'm not questioning my fulfillment. I'm not depressed. I'm not unhappy. I do what I do and people make statements about what they think I should do and how I should live, so I created this thread to open up a discussion about alternative perspectives from my own to see if I might find another view that seems more reasonable, and if so, I would consider adopting that view.


What lifestyle is that, exactly? Who are "those" people? I attend a Christian college, but you would define me by my education as if it means something.


Respectfully, I disagree that I have any duties at all or should have appreciation for anything that I didn't ask for and that was forced upon me.

Also, you've made the mistaken assumptions that A) I am sad, and B) that I do not believe in God.

Okay best of luck sounds like you got it figured out

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Lex DeVille]

Okay best of luck sounds like you got it figured out

Why did you bother responding if you didn't want to participate in this discussion? To me, it sounds like you're the one who thinks you've got it figured out.

 

[Johnny boy]

Why did you bother responding if you didn't want to participate in this discussion? To me, it sounds like you're the one who thinks you've got it figured out.

It’s 10 am and 75 degrees. I am not going to argue about your existential crisis. I am going to go surfing. Love you, brother.

 

[Lex DeVille]

My responses (in general) often seem confrontational, so I'll hold them going forward so it doesn't come across as if I'm purposely challenging everything that is said. I would still invite anyone to respond with their perspective, whatever that perspective may be. I will explore and give careful consideration to every post in this thread, even those I might initially (or ultimately) disagree with.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Jobless]

Life is said to be 90% art (instinctive, habitual, flow-state) and 10% science (aware, thinking, self-reflecting). I enjoy your post because it did get me to reflect about my own approach to life.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet.

I like this perspective personally. We're stuck between pre-existence and post-existence and there is mostly suffering between these two points. This requires you to use your willpower, to toil, to think, to overcome obstacles (in this case, your own mind, man's greatest foe.) Pain is essential to life and drives us to change/progress. We shift between different emotional states and pain is one of them. Desire and suffering are inherently linked, including our desire for meaning and the suffering when we fail to find it. The solution may be to reduce/balance the desire in some way, or to ignore that which is outside of our control -- does a person really control their own life/death?

What makes life interesting is tension and conflict. The absurd existential gap between yearning for meaning and being unable to find any meaning is one form of tension. If you have to balance on a rope, it better be tensioned, and in the same manner, you can only find balance between two ideas if there is 'tension' between them. This balancing act, in my perspective, is how you live a good life. You have to live with contradictions and find balance between existential dread and joy for life. The same goes for virtue (personal character), which also entails a balanced approach between two vices. Example: to be generous is a virtue, whilst to be spendthrifty or stingy are vices.

A reasonable answer to the question of living vs. dying is to accept the inevitability of death and be ready for it to arrive at any time, but never to welcome it with open arms.

When people seek 'truth', I think they often ignore what is 'false', as in the opposite polarity. The right thing to do is not to seek what is true, but to deconstruct the question to the point where true/false no longer matters. An example of this is Hegel's "Thesis + Antithesis -> Synthesis". When you combine two negating ideas, they don't disappear or remove one another, they form a new third idea. A new building block for your mind to play with. This includes my 'answer' in the paragraph above. The answer is not an answer, really it's just another more advanced question for you to contend with.

Not only does our mind 'play' with thoughts like children play with toys, we also take part in a theatrical 'play', as Shakespear wrote: "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players." -- from this it can be inferred that in this game of life, the game of business is just a minigame, among others. This quote is from a speech in a play about Seven different life stages of a man. What you're experiencing maybe is reflected in that speech, in the sense that you are passing from one 'age' to another. Check it out.

These thoughts are a mix of Buddhism, Stoicism, Artistotle, Camus and Hegel.

 

[DarkKnight]

NA

 

[MTF]

So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

And why you're so sure that not enjoying it at the moment means you're not going to enjoy it later?

When I started freediving, most of my sessions were shitty. I got massive headaches, I got seasick, I got ear pain, I felt like shit for not being able to do what everyone around me was easily doing.

So using this logic, I should have given up. But I didn't. And because I didn't and kept trying, I eventually overcame these problems and now it's one of the best things I've ever done in my life. It's been literally life-changing for me, and maybe even life-saving.

Constantly switching from one thing to another ensures that you'll never get so good at something that it will give you a feeling of flow, and that gives WAY more enjoyment than the initial struggles.

Leaving this Naval Ravikant's quote here that I think you'll enjoy:

Here’s a hot tip: There is no legacy. There’s nothing to leave. We’re all going to be gone. Our children will be gone. Our works will be dust. Our civilizations will be dust. Our planet will be dust. Our solar system will be dust. In the grand scheme of things, the Universe has been around for ten billion years. It’ll be around for another ten billion years.

Your life is a firefly blink in a night. You’re here for such a brief period of time. If you fully acknowledge the futility of what you’re doing, then I think it can bring great happiness and peace because you realize this is a game. But it’s a fun game. All that matters is you experience your reality as you go through life. Why not interpret it in the most positive possible way?

Any moment where you’re not having a great time, when you’re not really happy, you’re not doing anyone any favors. It’s not like your unhappiness makes them better off somehow. All you’re doing is wasting this incredibly small and precious time you have on this Earth. Keeping death on the forefront and not denying it is very important.

Whenever I get caught up in my ego battles, I just think of entire civilizations that have come and gone. For example, take the Sumerians. I’m sure they were important people and did great things, but go ahead and name me a single Sumerian. Tell me anything interesting or important Sumerians did that lasted. Nothing.

So maybe ten thousand years from now or a hundred thousand years from now, people will say, “Oh yeah, Americans. I’ve heard of Americans.”

You’re going to die one day, and none of this is going to matter. So enjoy yourself. Do something positive. Project some love. Make someone happy. Laugh a little bit. Appreciate the moment. And do your work.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any

It matters because you get to enjoy what's in between. It's like saying that it doesn't matter if you stop watching the movie in the middle of it or watch it until the end. It does matter because ending it sooner means missing out on what makes it enjoyable.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

This is what I expect you'll mostly get in return in this thread. Appeals to bearded men in the sky, "duty," "purpose," "legacy," and silly stuff like that, all intended to persuade oneself that one matters in the long term.

Most people are too weak to accept what Naval describes in that quote so you're very unlikely to get people to agree with you or even understand what you're talking about. They'll think you're depressed or suicidal while it's them who can't bear the truth.

It's easier to hide behind these death-denial (in one way or another) concepts than accept the futility (in the grand scheme of things) of everything that we do.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Subsonic]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

I believe that I will not die tomorrow or the day after (based on probability). Subsequently, whatever I am doing now does not need to be fun or feel good if it helps me get to a place I want to be in the future. Our brain is evolved to chase whatever feels best at the moment, even if that action results in a net loss in happiness, satisfaction or progress.
Thus, doing what one feels like at the moment is rarely the optimal thing to do. Optimal here is defined as maximizing happiness over one's lifetime.
On a long enough time horizon, everything is meaningless, even gods, deities and more. "That is not dead which can eternal lie; and with strange aeons even death may die", H.P. Lovecraft.
That means, realistically speaking, these concepts do not matter to our lives. We need to do whatever makes us have the most dopamine in our blood, if happiness is the goal.

You say your biggest problem is that you cannot overcome your own reasoning. This reasoning is logical but based on the wrong expected outcomes.
The options, when looking at a relevant time horizon of ten to 20 years, are:
- a world that has changed a little but is basically the same thing
or - a world that has changed heavily for the better or for the worse

In both of these realities, unpleasurable activities carried out right now will provide a more pleasurable existence.

This leads to my next point against pleasure in the moment: Nobody has eaten, drunk or consumed their way to happiness. Due to desensitization and pleasure being purely relative, conducting such activities has an almost purely negative effect on happiness, even in the moment.
Therefore, the most effective thing to do is reduce pleasurable activities to a point where simply existing is the baseline for pleasurable.
Counterintuitively, doing less fun things is more fun in the long therm.

Another concept in support of this is gratitude. It is the very actionable version of happiness. If one is grateful for more things in the current moment, he is happier. There are two ways to be more grateful:
1. Mindfully appreciating everything and the beauty of the concept of reality and existence.
2. Doing things that are hard in the moment so that one's future self can reap the rewards.

What is the message I want to bring across here?
Yes, everything is meaningless and that's ok.
The only thing we get to do is do whatever makes us the happiest.
The thing that makes us the happiest is not doing whatever is pleasurable or easy right now.


I hope this was fine to read, and I am too open to any criticism of this. If I interpreted you or your view wrong or if I came across as patronizing, forgive me, I know you're a strong, competent and intelligent guy.

 

[Timmy C]

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Both change and death are normal but how we all perceive them can be different. It is nuanced.
You won't enjoy everything you do, and I think that just throwing the baby out with the bath water isn't good.

I don't enjoy getting on a lacrosse ball for 30 minutes a week and digging it into my hip flexors and rotator cuffs. I actually hate it, and it is painful. But I like what comes after, and that is improved mobility and less pain in my day-to-day life.

It is very much situational dependent.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

You are already going to die, why speed it up, how does this benefit anyone? Today is never a good day to die Lex.

Do you think the act of dying itself wouldn't absolutely suck? Do you think it wouldn't be painful and a horrific experience? It most likely will be, and IS for most of us when we die.

From what I know you have a family, and a child that would be very saddened to not have a father.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

Well yeh, if overcoming death means you are in a perpetual hell then it makes sense to end it. But I don't see how this should be considered as a viable option until all your viable options are exhausted. Hell doesn't always have to be long term and permanent, but if it 100% is I get your point.

Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

You touched on you being selfish in this thread, so I think that's why you have come to this conclusion. But man, that's such a shit thing to consider for various reasons. Are you living in hell now? I believe that if you think you are, that you are kidding yourself. But then again I do not know the details of your life, how you experience this world on a daily basis and what your real struggles are that you don't tell any of us about, and that don't make it to a forum post.

It doesn't appear that you are ''suicidal'' to me which is what I first thought when I read your initial post, it just seems to be something you have given a fair bit of thought to.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

You have 2 forces at play that it seems you struggle with.

Enjoying today, the present moment with the decisions you make now, and enjoying the future based on your current decisions and whether you are making the right choices.

Quitting a business idea that you aren't that excited for and dying in the next few years would be a great decision if your timeline till death was a few years yeh.

It would be a bad decision if that business would have made you a multimillionaire in a few short years and you lived another 30 years to enjoy the toils of your hard work. If you succeed that is.

You will never know that answer, and analyzing these decisions constantly makes life lame for me personally.

 

[Kevin88660]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

The solution is very simple.

You should build a business around generating, identifying, and understanding business ideas.

This solves the monogamous necessity for long-term success while leveraging your non-monogamous talent/passion.

This is a gap between what people surf online (twitter, youtube, ig) for business ideas and actual businesses that are thriving offline.

This also involves a ground walk in interviewing people in the trade. There is no better way to understand abt car repo better than getting interviews done with them. In general, businesses welcome publicity as free advertising.

The best approach would be business journalism. A typical young journalist in the 20s doesn't know how to ask the right questions whereas you have much more experience running things (running different businesses and hustle since 2007).

There is always a gap in knowledge between media perception and INSIDERS who went through thick and thin. This is true for all fields. When it comes to financial news other than Bloomberg and Seekalpha many other big brand names do tend to consistently produce low-quality articles based on circulated media hype.

If you are not a practitioner you have zero ability to distinguish media hype from reality.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Panos Daras]

Why would you like to live for ever?

The universe is dying and we are dying with it brother. Do not take it personally.

So the thing is simple. NOTHING actually matters.

This you can tackle in two ways: You can either live your life doing as little as possible as it does not matter in the end…

Or…

You can do as many things as you can and accumulate as many experiences as you can. Still none of this matters.

Or…

You can do something in between. Also this does not really matter.
Ok that is three ways..

There is no escaping death.

The days of the universe are numbered.

And, what shall we have for lunch?

 

[Kevin88660]

On the problem of life and death, the biggest problem facing everyone is our eventual demise.

Think of a hypothetical scenario that you will never age and your health is forever at the state in your 20s that you have infinite youth and will never die, there is no rush to create wealth, go take a break and tour the world on a low budget.

No rush to create a family and have children as yours sperms and eggs never deteriorate in quality.

When there is no health constraint, resources constraint becomes much less of a problem because you have infinite time to create wealth no matter how slow it is.

Because we do not live forever at optimal health state, all our life planning and decision is based on that assumption. Our decisions might differ because we have different risk appetite but the set of problem we face is fundamentally the same. Given limited starting resource and eventual death, how to maximize expected total future utility/happiness before death.

As technology progresses there is a slight chance (5-30 percent) that we might live much longer than expected, depends on how much you buy into the longevity escape velocity purported by the health hack silicon valley tycoons.

There are different schools of thoughts but if ever becomes successful it will be a breakthrough in molecular engineering to turn off the aging mechanism innate in our cells, because without that no life hacks can push you beyond 110-120 range.

A back-up plan will be uploading our consciousness into computers that we can continue to exist in none-human forms.

 

[heavy_industry]

A back-up plan will be uploading our consciousness into computers that we can continue to exist in none-human forms.

We don't even know what consciousness is, why is my consciousness different from yours, or what exactly is life.

So good luck trying to store it on Google Drive.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Spenny]

I'm sorry I've taken a while to respond. Thank you for the tag @matteblack. I feel honoured that I came to mind.

world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience.

I'd say yes and no.

Yes, live in the moment when it applies, and work towards the future. That goes for the past as well. It's not ones and zeros here - A developing individual has to look at all of these things despite what the Bros believe.

The past is needed for reflection, which can influence the future. Past projects, experience, knowledge you've learned, regrets.

The future is where we imagine stuff, a lot of "what ifs" & how we invision something.

The present is where the two of these combine, and we can choose to influence an outcome. I've come to find that no decision is good or bad but will lead to an outcome that may be good or bad in your view.



Live in the moment, but know you're following the Northstar overall. I believe @fastlane_dad said it best. "if you ask how your life is right now & your response is "it's good", then don't sweat the small stuff".

If my response is "no, it's not good" I wonder if I can change a thing - I likely can. Otherwise, I won't stress.

I'm sure you've done that plenty of times, but it's always a nice reminder to breathe & relax.

So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

I agree, but I wouldn't get too micro with it.

I'll be honest: I'm not enjoying my degree right now, but I know it'll afford me a middle-class income for the rest of my life. I'll be able to work a job, quit when I'm doing business, and if it all goes to crap, I can always go back. The joy I'll get from that outweighs what I'm feeling now.

It's the same with the gym. A heavy squat hurts now, but I know it'll make me healthier, stronger, and faster.

Why do I bother doing business? Why do I tolerate it? Because it'll set me up well, I derive much joy from the five-star reviews.

besides, the world has become a bit insufferable

How come? I'd love to hear more on this.

I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

Could you elaborate on what your hell is? Because many people would look at me going to the gym, using a dumbphone, not drinking, running a business AND doing a degree as hell!

Truthfully, it isn't fun at the moment, but I can barely recognise who I was a year ago. It felt like three years of development in a year.

I think pain derives a lot of meaning in life.

Firstly, I struggled with my dyslexia. I had to learn how to make a system and found out how easy it was to run straight through people with A/A*s.

Now, it's stuff I have self-imposed on myself. Business. Gym. A degree. Binning deathscrolling. No alcohol.

No one asked me to, but I lose a lot of joy if I don't. I could indulge in hedonism, but I know where that leads me. Nowhere but staring into the void.

I decided to play a video game for the first time in a year called Lethal Company with some friends, and frankly, I got bored. It was too easy. There was no struggle.

I want to suffer. I derive much of my meaning from my suffering. I've also found happiness is a by-product of that.

When someone asks me how I'm doing, how can I not respond with "Brilliant/Amazing/Fantastic"? I've achieved so much & made so much progress towards my north star.

Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet.

I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this.

People need your contributions, Lex. We need your contributions. I need your contributions

One of the first things I did on this forum was your thread on copywriting. I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I needed to learn this skill.

You taught me the basics of copywriting.

I went on to help many others with how they write their copy.

Now, the website that sells my product has many of your tips integrated into it.

Think about that: a random British guy you've never met directly has used your teachings you wrote about nearly a decade ago to teach other people you've never met. You don't know how far your value spreads.

And look at some of the other threads you've started—the amount of GOLD tags. Hell, even your value post ratio shows people care what you think. I saw somewhere that your "$2k/mo passive income" thread has somewhere in the range of 94k views. The highest view count on the forum. That's the size of Wembley Stadium.



How many people have taken your tips & gone on to make their products to help people? You can't imagine it.

We've not even talked about how many customers have benefitted directly from your products. People's lives are better because of you.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

I don't subscribe to religions, either. Seeing elaborate churches decorated in gold leaf and marble on the backs of starving peasants makes me pessimistic.

However, what powers me every day is my vision. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People urges you to begin with the end in mind. When you're dead and gone, what will others say? What if you died tomorrow? What would they say?

I've thought about that day a lot. I think of it nearly every day. When someone spoke on my behalf about my achievements and, most importantly, what I did for other people, many of my goals went towards that image. If you can't think of that day, a question to ask is: who is Lex Deville in ten years? What does he do? Who is he? Go into depth. What's the vision?

I'll give an example: My vision is to stand on a tall podium in the centre of an expansive field. All around me are people that I have helped. I couldn't see the back of the crowd; there were so many people. If I talked to each, they'd talk about how their lives have been inspired, helped or improved. I would take many magnitudes of lifetimes to speak to each of them.

Such a vision lets me take out of the cookie jar. It makes me run faster. It makes me lift harder. It makes me cultivate my development.

It may be the biggest reason why I keep moving forward like I do because I know people I haven't met yet will rely on me in the future.

I must prepare & be ready for when I meet them. They need me.

I used to think I could live for myself. It was always about me.

I've come to find that I live for others.

If I were the last person on the planet, I'd find it extraordinarily difficult to continue living. I'd likely devote my life to travelling across continents to see a sign of any sentient life.

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

Considering you may be wrong on this stuff, I think you are already far above what many people go through life with. A big reason I love this community is because I witness a lot of people developing themselves and being willing to have their worldly views challenged. Mine certainly has. I've challenged others on it, too.

 

[MTF]

However, what powers me every day is my vision. Seven Habits of Highly Effective People urges you to begin with the end in mind. When you're dead and gone, what will others say? What if you died tomorrow? What would they say?

I've thought about that day a lot. I think of it nearly every day. When someone spoke on my behalf about my achievements and, most importantly, what I did for other people, many of my goals went towards that image. If you can't think of that day, a question to ask is: who is Lex Deville in ten years? What does he do? Who is he? Go into depth. What's the vision?

This always fascinates me. Why would you care what they say about you when you're dead? You wouldn't know. It would have no impact on you. It would have no impact on anyone else. Why does this motivate you?

The truth is that when you're gone (or anyone else for that matter), in a few months nobody except maybe a few people will even remember you existed. So why care while you're alive? Of course, be a good person, enjoy the relationship now. But why care what they say when you stop existing?

 

[heavy_industry]

So why care while you're alive?

This kind of nihilistic approach is a surefire way to become helplessly depressed and suffer horribly.

Life is already hard and tragic. Very hard and tragic.

Why make it even worse by using this faulty operating system? Why shoot yourself in the foot by using the "nothing matters" approach?

Yes, the universe is F*cking big. Bigger than we can imagine.

And we, both individually and collectively are so meaningless in the grand scheme of things that we - and all of our pathetic human efforts - equate to basically 0. We are nothing.

This entire planet can vanish tomorrow, and no one in the entire universe would miss us.


However...

We're not living on a cosmic scale, where everything becomes meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

We do live on the human scale.

Which means that everything matters, and everything is meaningful.

Everything.

That includes taking care of your child, kindly helping a stranger, or being proud of your day-to-day work in the pursuit of a better future.

Yes, everything will come to an end.

But while it's lasting, why don't we F*cking learn to appreciate the ecstatic beauty of our world and show an ounce of gratitude for what has been given to us?

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Jrjohnny]

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but this is how I view life:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBpaUICxEhk


When you dance, there is no end goal, and there is no logical reason for doing it either.

You dance for the sole purpose of dancing.

And the same happens with life.

The only purpose of life is living.

It's to experience this rare gift that has been given to us.

This doesn't mean living hedonistically "for the present moment". I find that the constant pursuit of challenge and difficulty is bringing meaning into my life.

---

We live in a very strange world, whose complexity is orders of magnitude greater than what our primitive minds can comprehend.

The phenomenon of biological life - and existence itself, for that matter - is fundamentally absurd. It has no reason or apparent purpose for existing, and yet, fortunately, it does exist.

I would stop looking for an answer because the answer does not exist.

We're here for a brief amount of time, so don't take things too seriously.

The light will soon go out forever, at which point, there will be only two questions left:

• How beautifully did we live our lives?
• How much good have we done for the world?

So let's try to be kind to one another and work as hard as we can.

While we still can.

I haven’t made a post in a while, but I’m making an exception because I stand by this so much.

Life is about living and enjoying the view. It’s not about reaching the top of the mountain. It’s about enjoying the vast view of valleys, plains, shields, oceans, rivers, sky, and clouds around us.

I recently had the choice to skip out of a fun day of school, called winter activity day, where we can do whatever we want.

I just wanted to skip out and stay home. Something last minute told me to go snowboarding.

I went, woke up early, but. Not like normally, where I would take like 5 minutes to get up.

I would spring out of bed, so full of joy, and immediately got ready.

Reminded me of when, at school, you would have a field trip, you’d wake up so excited.

Because, it’s something new, something exciting and mysterious!

Not the plain old schedule, where you can predict what happens.

As I’m on the bus, I realize this and, everyday of life is suppose to be exciting and mysterious! You’re supposed to spring up out of bed quickly! Ready to take on the day!

I had just recently woke up, and woke up with the biggest smile on my face.

God gave me another day of life. I’m going to enjoy it like it’s my last: because it might frankly be!

I want to be dying with a smile on my face. I want to see my life flash before my eyes and warm up with happiness.

Life is not predictable, not guaranteed, life is the unknown, exciting and mysterious stuff, so wake up everyday knowing you’ve won something more valuable than the lottery!

 

[Spenny]

This always fascinates me. Why would you care what they say about you when you're dead? You wouldn't know. It would have no impact on you. It would have no impact on anyone else. Why does this motivate you?

It's not so much that I care what they think after I'm dead, it shows that I've made a difference, so much so they will remember certain things that will help them.

It doesn't matter to me, I'm dead. But my contribution makes all the difference to those who are still alive. Why should I rob them of that?

It's the same argument of why save an animal or a person. It doesn't matter - we're going to die anyway. But to that animal, it makes all the difference.

The truth is that when you're gone (or anyone else for that matter), in a few months nobody except maybe a few people will even remember you existed. So why care while you're alive? Of course, be a good person, enjoy the relationship now. But why care what they say when you stop existing?

Sure, I see your point, but I can still remember the kind things my father has done for me, and the teachers who have poured hours of their time into helping me, and the people who have truthfully made my life better.

They could make the same argument. It doesn't matter so that I won't bother. Where would that leave me? Making mistakes that could have been prevented through being pulled aside and having a simple conversation. Decades of mistakes are saved through knowledge transfer. That gift is great than ANYTHING you can buy me, because you've just saved me my most valuable resource: time.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Thank you all for the responses so far.

Here are some thoughts that are not in response to anyone in particular.

On Being Grateful for Life as a Gift
I don't understand the perspective of being grateful for what I am gifted when it isn't something I wanted or requested to begin with. I can give a man a steak, cooked to perfection. If he's vegan, it won't be a gift he wants to receive, even if I say, "but it's a gift, and it's free, so enjoy it!" the man will not enjoy it. Then you could say the man chooses not to enjoy it. He chooses to be vegan. Is the receiver ungrateful? Is the giver inconsiderate? And importantly, wouldn't everyone in this scenario have been better off if this interaction never took place?

On Whether or Not Anything Matters
If we are all going to die, then I think nothing matters (with the caveat that this perspective assumes death is the *end* and that nothing can be experienced afterward). If we have a choice in whether or not to die, then some things matter (such as the actions we take and how those actions affect our choice in whether or not we continue to live and for how long).

On Indefinite Existence as a Perpetual Hell
I tend to think indefinite life would be ideal; however, humans tend to cause problems. Imagine if Facebook were the only company that could upload consciousness. That might offer indefinite life, but also could be a perpetual living hell. That said, someone I consider wise has suggested to never bet on doomsday because you lose no matter what. Sometimes, I forget those words.

On Morals and Duty
This area gets cloudy for me because if I'm just going to blip out of existence, then how or when that occurs is moot and the primary reason to have moral values is to ensure the present existence does not worsen. Also, there's the problem of morals being relative to one's culture which means there is no absolute definition. As for duty, it is difficult to feel a sense of "it is my duty to do this thing" if blipping out of existence is the only option.

This, of course, is a key consideration of major religions where *if God | then morals and duty" and "if no God | then no morals and duty." I don't think it's so black and white, but I do think that the underlying meaning is that if there is nothing beyond this existence, then the value of morals falls away except to the extent that moral values maintain a certain standard of living during the present existence. Duty doesn't hold up at all.

I also think if we take duty and add the word "civic" to the beginning, then some who are proponents of "duty" would very quickly become anti-duty. For instance, the civic duty to phone the police on a neighbor whom isn't wearing a mask while watering the grass during a pandemic. Whom determines what is dutiful and to whom such duty applies? If "God," which God (and what makes that God *my* God?)? That's a discussion of its own, probably for another time.

On the World Being Insufferable
I think the above perspective on morals can be seen in the way the world is changing. In the pursuit of power, ideas like morals and duty are discarded because they become liabilities. I won't delve into politics, but I think one only needs look to those who hold power to see who morals and duty are really for. Even systems of checks and balances tend not to hold up against power and control.

In power, control matters, and when a few individuals control so many aspects of daily life, then I think the result is what we've seen manifest over the past decade or so. Divisions among people. A push toward comfort-seeking behaviors and mental numbing, and a trend toward altered definitions which transform what was once morally incomprehensible into what is *commanded* to be acceptable (which is ultimately a means to increasing control for those in power).

As a result, the world is generally becoming insufferable. Thinking for the sake of thinking is devalued. This is anecdotal, but I'm not the only one who has commented on this.

We could zoom out and say on a grand scale things are getting better, but as was already mentioned, we do not live on a grand scale, we live on a micro scale, so the world being insufferable is a problem for the immediate experience and whether the world is ultimately improving on a grand scale or timeline is a moot point for the individual with a finite existence.

On Hedonism and Working Toward the Future
I wouldn't describe myself as hedonistic. I've maintained health and fitness over expansive timelines, pursued business over an extended timeline, studied piano for a number of years. These are not always fun, but I continue because I find them satisfying in their own ways.

If something ceases to be more satisfying than dissatisfying, then I cease the activity. If running starts to destroy my knees, I would stop running, but I would still pursue other exercises to maintain health and fitness. When a business idea doesn't seem satisfying, I switch ideas. Sometimes I come back to ideas later on. So it's not completely "pleasure in the moment." It's a calculation about the amount of satisfaction that continuing that activity is likely to generate vs the amount of dissatisfaction. It is also a calculation about how much I desire the overarching outcome of the pursuit (How badly do I want to be healthy/wealthy/masterful, etc.?).


These thoughts don't address everything everyone has said. There are many perspectives in this thread, and a lot to review and consider. But again, thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

Dislike ads? Remove them and support the forum: Subscribe to Fastlane Insiders.

[Panos Daras]

It matters because you get to enjoy what's in between. It's like saying that it doesn't matter if you stop watching the movie in the middle of it or watch it until the end. It does matter because ending it sooner means missing out on what makes it enjoyable.

No, it still does not matter because you will not remember it anyway. You will be fertilizer. Nothing matters. It is what it is. We CREATE the WHY shit matters. Through thought or are being created by our animalistic instincts. It is all bullshit to keep entropy.

 

[S.Y.]

Death is inevitable; tomorrow is not promised. I choose not to depart faster but to make the most of whatever I have. And I have people that I care for. I owe my son to be there for him, or at the very least, not to hasten not being there for him.

I value life more because of its finitude.

Those moments that you say don't matter actually do. We lost a dear friend suddenly late last year. I am 100% certain that he didn't know how much he touched people's lives and how seemingly small moments are being cherished.

It is on you to change your mind. Absurdism and Existentialism deal with what you are going through. I suggest exploring what thinkers in that realm wrote, starting with Camus. If you haven't already.