Existential Thoughts: Change My Mind

[biophase]

Thank you all for the responses so far.

Here are some thoughts that are not in response to anyone in particular.

On Being Grateful for Life as a Gift
I don't understand the perspective of being grateful for what I am gifted when it isn't something I wanted or requested to begin with. I can give a man a steak, cooked to perfection. If he's vegan, it won't be a gift he wants to receive, even if I say, "but it's a gift, and it's free, so enjoy it!" the man will not enjoy it. Then you could say the man chooses not to enjoy it. He chooses to be vegan. Is the receiver ungrateful? Is the giver inconsiderate? And importantly, wouldn't everyone in this scenario have been better off if this interaction never took place?

Well, with this view. It's hard to like anything. If you don't like that you are alive, then oh well.

The vegan person isn't enjoying the steak no matter what another person tells him about. In fact, the more the person says it's wagyu or it's from this farm, or it was prepared this way, the more the vegan will despise of it.

So if this is the case, nothing we tell you here is going to change your mind.

On Whether or Not Anything Matters
If we are all going to die, then I think nothing matters (with the caveat that this perspective assumes death is the *end* and that nothing can be experienced afterward)

Yes we are all going to die. Everyone on the forum today will not be around in 2120. Does that mean that everything we do from now until then is for nothing?

Well, it depends on you. You could work a job and retire and not interact with anyone or you could find the cure for cancer and you're life would have mattered to millions of people.

On Indefinite Existence as a Perpetual Hell
I tend to think indefinite life would be ideal;

Well this makes no sense. So living forever would make life matter, but dying make it not matter?

If you worked and sat on the couch for 1000 years, how would your life matter more? I would think this would be the opposite. Imagine your current mindset, but you lived forever. That would be hell. You would try something and give up as soon as it was not fun. You would become not good at everything.

If something ceases to be more satisfying than dissatisfying, then I cease the activity. If running starts to destroy my knees, I would stop running, but I would still pursue other exercises to maintain health and fitness. When a business idea doesn't seem satisfying, I switch ideas. Sometimes I come back to ideas later on. So it's not completely "pleasure in the moment." It's a calculation about the amount of satisfaction that continuing that activity is likely to generate vs the amount of dissatisfaction. It is also a calculation about how much I desire the overarching outcome of the pursuit (How badly do I want to be healthy/wealthy/masterful, etc.?).

Honestly, I view this as either laziness of lack of motivation.

If you started to hate running, you would stop. But you would use the excuse of your knees hurting to stop.

Inner motivation just doesn't work for some people.

Imagine if your goal was to make enough money to get a Ferrari. You start a business with the goal. The business becomes hard and not fun anymore. It's easy to tell yourself that you don't want the Ferrari so therefore you stop the business. But the real reason wasn't that you didn't want the Ferrari, it was because you didn't want to do the work you deemed not pleasurable. You still do want the Ferrari, you are just lying to yourself.

Not imagine if you had to make $250,000 to pay for a loved one's life saving surgery. Now the business becomes hard and not fun anymore. Would you be able to stop and move onto something else? Could you say to your loved one, "You know, my business just isn't fun anymore, good luck on paying for that surgery!"

I view life as living within a chunk of time. We get 50-100 years and I get to choose what I want to do within this time period. This world said, hey biophase, here's 1971 to 2071, do what you wish.

This is probably a poor car analogy. But imagine you go rent a car. The counter person says, here are the keys to that Ferrari. It's brand new, you have to for 30 days. After 30 days it will just explode.

So you could, drive the shit out of it. You could crash it to pieces on day 10. You could give kids a ride in it and make them happy or you could just never drive it and let it sit in your garage. It's all up to you.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Well, with this view. It's hard to like anything. If you don't like that you are alive, then oh well.

The vegan person isn't enjoying the steak no matter what another person tells him about. In fact, the more the person says it's wagyu or it's from this farm, or it was prepared this way, the more the vegan will despise of it.

So if this is the case, nothing we tell you here is going to change your mind.

Hey Biophase, thanks for adding your thoughts. You touched on several key points. This one is part of what led to this discussion. I'll do my best to articulate a response.

Although I don't view existence as a gift, I'm open to adjusting my views and/or approaches if I encounter a more sensible perspective. It's not easy because I have to judge that perspective as being more sensible/reasonable, and I am biased by what I currently view as reasonable. If I believe my current perspective is the most reasonable, then it will not change, but that's why this discussion is important.

I am trying not to be attached to my worldview.

Even if I don't view existence as a gift, I might be able to improve how I engage with life by adopting another perspective. That might improve my business outcomes, and maybe I can put some of these thoughts to rest. But, it is difficult, and I may fail even if more useful perspectives are presented. Without having the discussion, I would have already failed.

Honestly, I view this as either laziness of lack of motivation.

If you started to hate running, you would stop. But you would use the excuse of your knees hurting to stop.

Inner motivation just doesn't work for some people.

I hadn't considered this before, but I might be lazy. I spend a small amount of time on college and piano per week and have sustained those for years. The business ideas I've stuck with longest required only a large amount of effort/time in the beginning, but were limited in output afterward. Once they became time-consuming or required ongoing effort, I switched. This was probably the appeal of freelancing. Each client was a quick win that resulted in fast cash for a limited amount of time and effort.

If I am lazy, then I need resources to try and resolve this. I'll look into this.

Imagine if your goal was to make enough money to get a Ferrari. You start a business with the goal. The business becomes hard and not fun anymore. It's easy to tell yourself that you don't want the Ferrari so therefore you stop the business. But the real reason wasn't that you didn't want the Ferrari, it was because you didn't want to do the work you deemed not pleasurable. You still do want the Ferrari, you are just lying to yourself.

Not imagine if you had to make $250,000 to pay for a loved one's life saving surgery. Now the business becomes hard and not fun anymore. Would you be able to stop and move onto something else? Could you say to your loved one, "You know, my business just isn't fun anymore, good luck on paying for that surgery!"

I got into business for freedom. That was my main goal. With a few exceptions, I've enjoyed freedom most of the time. In considering my potential laziness, I also have to question if that laziness is a problem. It could be a problem if the business needs to account for others in a scenario as you've described.

Well this makes no sense. So living forever would make life matter, but dying make it not matter?

If you worked and sat on the couch for 1000 years, how would your life matter more? I would think this would be the opposite. Imagine your current mindset, but you lived forever. That would be hell. You would try something and give up as soon as it was not fun. You would become not good at everything.

Living indefinitely means indefinite time to pursue life. It doesn't empirically make life matter more. I'm not suggesting I would be more motivated to do more or to stick with things longer if I lived indefinitely. I do think I could pursue an indefinite life more leisurely and would enjoy existing more without the frustration of mortality lingering in the background.

 

[NervesOfSteel]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

We have difficulty trusting the man who landed on the moon, but we dive in full faith, in expert opinions of those who have never died!

 

[Lex DeVille]

We have difficulty trusting the man who landed on the moon, but we dive in full faith, in expert opinions of those who have never died!

I don't understand what you mean. Can you expand on this?

 

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[user54095306]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

First of all: My perspective is religion and sorry for my english. If you don't want to hear about me, then just ignore this post. But I just wanted to say my perspective. I really haven't heard your thoughts about religion and WHY you think, that it is wrong. Since atheism always leads to nihilism, there is NO REASON if you are an atheist (at least I have not found some). But for atheists: try finding that reason and don't kill yourself. By your post, I can see that you have been thinking about those kind of stuff. And that is not wrong. That is the best, that you can do. When choosing between theism and atheism, you choose between 2 things:

If God exists: Atheists-> (most of the times) go to hell. Theists -> Go to heaven
If God does not exist: Atheist -> nothing happens. Theists -> nothing happens

Now you might think: Well there are a bunch of religions. - how do I know, which is the right one?
By God´s grace it would be possible to do that by thinking. And why I say by God´s grace is, because when you think, you are vulnerable to spititual attacks, which can alter your perception of reality. Especially when you try doing this with drugs. So this is not wise to do, because you risk the chances of ruining your infinitly long future after your death. So we must be carefull about what we do. I myself am an Orthodox Christian. I find this the most reasonable religion. I have looked into different religions and I can tell, that Orthodoxy is the truth. By God´s grace I am here and trying to learn, how to make money. That money I would use to glorify God. However only if God wills. I love God. God had mercy on you and had protected you from most attacks, while thinking. You have reasonably come to some wisdom.

SEE:
JOB 3 (World English Bible (Public Domain))
1 After this Job opened his mouth, and cursed the day of his birth. 2 Job answered:
3 “Let the day perish in which I was born,
the night which said, ‘There is a boy conceived.’
4 Let that day be darkness.
Don’t let God from above seek for it,
neither let the light shine on it.
5 Let darkness and the shadow of death claim it for their own.
Let a cloud dwell on it.
Let all that makes the day black terrify it.
6 As for that night, let thick darkness seize on it.
Let it not rejoice among the days of the year.
Let it not come into the number of the months.
7 Behold, let that night be barren.
Let no joyful voice come therein.
8 Let them curse it who curse the day,
who are ready to rouse up leviathan.
9 Let the stars of its twilight be dark.
Let it look for light, but have none,
neither let it see the eyelids of the morning,
10 because it didn’t shut up the doors of my mother’s womb,
nor did it hide trouble from my eyes.

11 “Why didn’t I die from the womb?
Why didn’t I give up the spirit when my mother bore me?
12 Why did the knees receive me?
Or why the breast, that I should nurse?
13 For now I should have lain down and been quiet.
I should have slept, then I would have been at rest,
14 with kings and counselors of the earth,
who built up waste places for themselves;
15 or with princes who had gold,
who filled their houses with silver;
16 or as a hidden untimely birth I had not been,
as infants who never saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling.
There the weary are at rest.
18 There the prisoners are at ease together.
They don’t hear the voice of the taskmaster.
19 The small and the great are there.
The servant is free from his master.

20 “Why is light given to him who is in misery,
life to the bitter in soul,
21 who long for death, but it doesn’t come;
and dig for it more than for hidden treasures,
22 who rejoice exceedingly,
and are glad, when they can find the grave?
23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hidden,
whom God has hedged in?
24 For my sighing comes before I eat.
My groanings are poured out like water.
25 For the thing which I fear comes on me,
that which I am afraid of comes to me.
26 I am not at ease, neither am I quiet, neither do I have rest;
but trouble comes.”

Job said this, after Satan said to God, that Job only loves God, because of his selfishness (because of all the things he own's). So God allowed Satan to take away everything. After allowing Job to be tempted, and after Job making it trough and being with God, God multiplied everything, that he had before and gave it to him. No matter if you are an atheist or a christian. Working for something on earth- is without reason. Everything is temporary. Everything goes. It is stolen, broken or lost. Nothing worldy you achieve here has a meaning (wordly has a special meaning in Orthodoxy). For me there is NO REASON to be an atheist. I am open to hear some of you. And I would suggest you to read the Book of Proverbs (one of my favourite Book's of the Bible).
God bless you.
If you are truly looking for the truth, may you find it
John 8:32 " You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” "

 

[Kevin88660]

The global median income (by population) is only less than 3k per annum.

A large percentage of global population is currently living in some sort of hell perceived by the developed world.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5s4hqX4ZQ

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6g3vv8G18


It could change your perspectives in life.

 

[user54095306]

The global median income (by population) is only less than 3k per annum.

A large percentage of global population is currently living in some sort of hell perceived by the developed world.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5s4hqX4ZQ

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6g3vv8G18


It could change your perspectives in life.

First of all: thank you for your reply- i love to hear different perspectives. Basically from what I understood you are using the problem of evil. If you don't mind, may I ask your religious belief, so that I can go further. Because I cannot talk without context.
I would love to hear a reply
God bless

 

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[Kevin88660]

First of all: thank you for your reply- i love to hear different perspectives. Basically from what I understood you are using the problem of evil. If you don't mind, may I ask your religious belief, so that I can go further. Because I cannot talk without context.
I would love to hear a reply
God bless

I am just saying don’t get depressed. Treasure what we have and make full use of it.

Most of the active forum members here come from developed economies, and are already miles ahead in life compared to most people living the world at the same time.

My religion? I am from the church of homo_economicus.

Homo economicus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[AceVentures]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

My perspective on the matter is simple:

You're retarded.

I don't mean this as an insult. I mean it literally. And by the way I learned I too was retarded.

90% of us I would say, maybe more, are by any measure of human function retarded.

We have arrested development.

From very early on in our childhood.

We experience physical, social, and environmental mending of our nervous system's fear-anxiety response.

We don't measure it directly in adults. But we should.

The social metric is a lie.

You can be a lawyer.
You can be an accountant.
You can be an entrepreneur.

But what of all of your functions, which are typically measured and tracked during infancy? Your hearing? Your coordination? Your eyesight? Your sense of pain? Your ability to learn? Your speech?

And those are just the basics of what it takes to grow and mature as a person.

But what of the potency of your being?

Can you sing?
Can you play an instrument?
Can you draw?
Can you dance?
Can you throw? Jump? Swim? Run?
Can you sit? For an hour? Without excruciating pain?

Maybe all the words mean nothing - and you're just retarded. Your inabilities to sense and move in the world, the mal-adaptations of your nervous system, have inhibited your thought and feelings. The inhibitions within your sensory-motor cortex manifest as a system devoid of feelings for life.

The words I use are to simplify the model, and I mean no offense.

This is my perspective.
It is largely developed from principles of neurophysiology, pathology of illness and psychophysics.

 

[user54095306]

I am just saying don’t get depressed. Treasure what we have and make full use of it.

Most of the active forum members here come from developed economies, and are already miles ahead in life compared to most people living the world at the same time.

My religion? I am from the church of homo_economicus.

Homo economicus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Those differences in the lives between us and and the developing countires are directly contributed to the economy. We all here know, that the more of a gap there is between rich and poor- the richer the rich are and the poorer the poor are. We are canabilizing ourselves by getting richer. If God wills, that I get rich, I am planning to help those people in such countries and work against those sinfull organisations. Since the bad state you showed those people working in there is a consequence of our free-will. Those bad organisations/companies, who also strive to get the most money they can, are corrupt and they do not care about other humans. It is really hard for me to find a business modell which is not eventually a sin/does not make other people sin. Monks purposefully put themselves in bad states to get closer to God.

Rich is the person, who needs the least.

You accept, that the people who are doing those jobs are in a bad state and it is unfair- so you accept right and wrong. But WHO sets that right and wrong for you? It is just subjective. And who gives rights to people? Where does it say, that people should have basic rights? From what I know- atheism leads to nihilism if you think. But you have a free-will. So do what you want.
God bless all of you brothers and sisters.

 

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[Kevin88660]

Those differences in the lives between us and and the developing countires are directly contributed to the economy. We all here know, that the more of a gap there is between rich and poor- the richer the rich are and the poorer the poor are. We are canabilizing ourselves by getting richer. If God wills, that I get rich, I am planning to help those people in such countries and work against those sinfull organisations. Since the bad state you showed those people working in there is a consequence of our free-will. Those bad organisations/companies, who also strive to get the most money they can, are corrupt and they do not care about other humans. It is really hard for me to find a business modell which is not eventually a sin/does not make other people sin. Monks purposefully put themselves in bad states to get closer to God.

Rich is the person, who needs the least.

You accept, that the people who are doing those jobs are in a bad state and it is unfair- so you accept right and wrong. But WHO sets that right and wrong for you? It is just subjective. And who gives rights to people? Where does it say, that people should have basic rights? From what I know- atheism leads to nihilism if you think. But you have a free-will. So do what you want.
God bless all of you brothers and sisters.

My point was be contented with things we have and move on in life, because most are at a worse state.

 

[NervesOfSteel]

We have difficulty trusting the man who landed on the moon, but we dive in full faith, in expert opinions of those who have never died!

I don't understand what you mean. Can you expand on this?

People tend to deny the phenomena proved by science, like the earth's shape, Man's landing on the moon, etc etc, and you seek the advice and opinion of people on something as obtrusive as Death?

In my opinion, no one is eligible to give real advice on Death because the dead don't talk. Those who are alive, have no experience of death either!

From point A to B, A being Birth and B being Death, all you can do is focus on the journey in between. Live your life well. Love, get loved, drive the fast cars, buy luxury mansions, laugh, dance, celebrate!

Death is an unsolvable puzzle, why waste time to decode it?

 

[NervesOfSteel]

The global median income (by population) is only less than 3k per annum.

A large percentage of global population is currently living in some sort of hell perceived by the developed world.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5s4hqX4ZQ

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6g3vv8G18


It could change your perspectives in life.

Please don't post such videos. They have the potential to derail the thread. LOL

 

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[Lex DeVille]

People tend to deny the phenomena proved by science, like the earth's shape, Man's landing on the moon, etc etc, and you seek the advice and opinion of people on something as obtrusive as Death?

In my opinion, no one is eligible to give real advice on Death because the dead don't talk. Those who are alive, have no experience of death either!

From point A to B, A being Birth and B being Death, all you can do is focus on the journey in between. Live your life well. Love, get loved, drive the fast cars, buy luxury mansions, laugh, dance, celebrate!

Death is an unsolvable puzzle, why waste time to decode it?

Ah, that is more clear. Thanks for explaining.

I don't know the arguments surrounding the moon landing, but I have seen interesting arguments for the Earth being flat. I don't have an opinion on that because I simply don't care lol.

In this thread I seek perspectives to explore life/business/existence that might differ from my own. The general consensus is that we should enjoy life/existence because we will die. The general consensus is also that it is better to commit to a business idea for an extended period.

Death as Truth:
René Descartes doubted everything. He proposed a method for establishing a foundation of knowledge that says, if an idea can be doubted at all, then the truth of that idea is false. This is how he arrived at his undeniable truth (I think, therefore I am) which was his basis for determining everything else.

Can the inevitability of death be doubted at all? Yes, because I doubt it, as do many others. Therefore, the inevitability of death is false. Interestingly, Descartes, followed this approach to determine that "God" exists and is not deceptive.

Life vs. Existence
These are separate ideas. From day to day, I enjoy life. I play piano, study language, explore ideas. I face and overcome hard challenges. I feel happy, angry, sad and I enjoy all of this. Existence, however, is forced upon us. It presents opportunities for boundless joy that are then taken back one by one until we wither and die, and we exist with the knowledge that this is likely to happen. I would rather have not existed than know the joy of fatherhood and be forced to suffer the conscious awareness that eventually, I will be removed from my child's life or she from mine. I do not agree that it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. This does not mean I am suicidal. It only highlights how I can love life but not existence.

Death is Probable
I will likely die, and, assuming I live long enough, that death will likely follow from the diseases of old age (such as Alzheimer's). For as long as I am more likely to die than not and for as long as that death will follow from the eventual decline of my body and mind, then this existence is akin to a noir story. There are moments where it seems like things are improving, but the story ends poorly for the character all the same. Nonetheless, death remains a probability - a false truth deeply embedded within us from our earliest years and reinforced by society at large, so it is accepted as an inevitable truth.

Is X Path Better Than (m)Y?
This is ultimately the purpose of the thread. I have not concluded that my perspectives and approaches to life/business are better/worse (or more/less correct) than others. I have only concluded that my perspective is the most reasonable based on my reasoning up to this point. Since there remains a shred of doubt about the truth of what I just said, then it means it could be false. So I created the thread to share thoughts with a group of people whose perspectives I value, especially because they frequently differ from my own.

All of Life is Beautiful
The general consensus is that humans should strive to be happy with and make the most of the time they have. Sadness, depression, rage, hatred, cowardice, envy, selfishness, etc. are frowned upon as *bad* and to be avoided. Yet, television such as Sopranos, Dexter, Drive, Breaking Bad, etc. exist and we love them which highlights a capacity for humans to enjoy negative approaches to life. The shows are "fiction," yet they exist and can be experienced and therefore are "real."

As I make my way through life, I enjoy the act of living and being alive, and I also find beauty and joy in life's dark side - not just viewing from the outside, but being on the inside. It's a stark contrast from the general consensus but I have not concluded that it is better or worse, only that it is a different story being written one day at a time.

Commitment
This thread came on the heels of a comment that I should try committing to something and sticking with it for years (as opposed to frequently creating new progress threads), but I didn't think I could properly explore whether or not that comment warranted consideration without digging into the foundational issues underlying my current and former approaches.

The question for me is not, "how do I change my perspective/approach so I can stick with something for longer?" The question for me is, "what are other perspectives/approaches and what meaning can I make from them? Also, what would adopting all or part of those perspectives/approaches contribute to my existence/life/business, and does that warrant a change?"

Lastly
I find great joy in working through these ideas in writing and examining areas that challenge my views. I don't know everything. I'm not certain about anything. I'm curious about a lot of things.

 

[Matt Sun]

Does it make you think something that the motto of satanism is "Do What Thou Wilt " ? I truly think there isn't a single atheist in this world. Humans are religious creatures and you end up worshiping something either you want it or not. It can be karma, "the universe" or "your desires".

Perhaps reading stoics such as Seneca might be of help. The stoics concluded that freedom it's to live according to nature which they also say is to follow God. And that it's crazy to prefer be dragged by this power than to follow. We don't have much choice in the matter, we are born with certain needs and desires such as hunger, lust, etc. We can seek the harmonious ways in which nature or God which ever way you prefer to call designated for us to fulfill this needs, mostly in moderation. Or we can just live for them and what we desire and become slaves to gluttony, sex, power etc. I think there are countless historical examples showing this doesn't end well nor for the individual or his loved ones either.

Just my two cents on the matter, maybe reading Seneca's letter can give you new ideas on how to approach this complex topics.

 

[Kevin88660]

Please don't post such videos. They have the potential to derail the thread. LOL

It actually serves as a reminder that if you think your life sucks and worth living, look around globally.

I haven’t posted the worst, given the hot wars in Eastern Europe and Middle East now.

Be contented and appreciate what you have. Then move to make the best of it.

 

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[Haya_Verbena]

A lot of people will read your original post and think that you're somebody that doesn't care about existing , but really you're someone that really cares a lot about existing that WANTS a meaningful JOYFUL existence and that's why you're in such a dilemma. You say that if you could circumvent death, essentially becoming immortal then you would, but you still worry that immortality will eventually become joyless and then reasonably conclude that eternity without joy isn't worth it.

What you're looking for is an alternate line of reasoning that works ON YOUR TERMS, but since you have strong long held beliefs of your own that's gonna be hard to come by. You're essentially indulging yourself in nihilism but find that unenjoyable, and are looking for a way out, but you're gonna have to be more willing to accept other people's perspectives beyond what just makes logical sense.

Logic is essential in our lives but it definitely isn't the end all be all of decision makers. Because for us humans, ALL LOGIC hinges on desire. "What is the logical thing to do?", becomes a pointless question if there is no desire behind it because there is no end goal. Without desire only logical structures remain, and logical structures that don't serve a goal are inherently purposeless. Great for affirming facts and information, but only just that. So essentially even with the best logical way of thinking and reasoning, it can be said that all human decisions are IRRATIONAL.

When pondering existence one can't help but wonder about the creation of the very universe itself. If you ascribe to the big bang theory of how it all came to be, then everything and anything that we know exists is caused by nothing but pure RANDOMNESS . All those billions of years ago, it just so happened that the right mix of space gas was floating around and then BOOM everything came to be. So you, me, everyone on the forum, everyone on earth, everything that exists are just "space dust", a bunch of atoms interacting with a bunch of atoms, guided by nothing the random entropic chaos of randomness. This is where the idea of "if you put a monkey at a typewriter and give it infinite time it will reproduce the entire written works of Shakespeare" comes from because everything is purely random.

If you study a bit more into physics you will come across the idea that essentially all of existing matter is 99% empty space. When we "zoom" into an atom and look at the electrons, protons and neutrons, we find that they are infinitesimally small, held together by forces. The nuclei in the center and the electrons orbiting around it, and what's in between? Literally nothing.

So given all that why care? Nothing matters, nothing is real, all the decisions we make are irrational, we are just atoms interacting with atoms, empty space interacting with empty space, nothing interacting with nothing and everything that we do is not of our own volition but a product of random chance. Your choices and thoughts matter not because it is entropy that is your ultimate guide and you but a mere puppet dancing at its behest.

Now I imagine that's where a lot of nihilists would stop and say either "enjoy your life" or "do whatever". But I am not a nihilist and the above is purely my reasoning if I was, just to give you some perspective.

From this point on is going to be my personal belief. Coming back to physics and the world around us, it is plainly obvious that we don't live in a world of pure randomness. There is INHERENT STRUCTURE AND ORDER all around us. We live in a world of cause and effect, action and reaction, action and consequence. The immutable laws of physics should be enough to tell you that existence isn't random and there is a definite structure to things. Look at the orbits of the planets and the structure of the solar system, that is enough to tell you that there is definite order. In a purely random entropic universe, structure cannot exist because structure needs to be created, order is to be established.

From a biological standpoint, the very bodily systems that we live in are so intricate and complex that even the slightest disturbance will render us ill. Every cell in our body is dictated by systems ultimately governed by the DNA that is in them, once again evidence of structure and order. In chemistry, some elements and chemicals when mixed together will inevitably have a reaction changing their structure and creating new compounds. Why does that happen? Definitely not because of randomness and entropy, yet again structure and order on full display.

Those are just some of the examples that I'm going to give to attest to the fact that our world and the universe at large is dictated by structure and order. And with structure there must be one who CREATES SUCH STRUCTURE AND ESTABLISHES SUCH ORDER. I personally believe that there is a higher power at large, and the signs are there only if we are willing to look, and I can only hope you're willing to look too. If you hold on to hopeless nihilistic beliefs, you're only going to get hopeless nihilistic answers.

 

[Lex DeVille]

There are some points to address that I think are being overlooked, not just in previous response, but in several responses throughout the thread. I'd like to address those, and then expand on my current perspective.

Belief in God
I don't think there's any place in this thread where I said I don't believe in God. Faulty premises lead to faulty conclusions.

Nihilism
By definition (depending on which definition) Nihilism is the rejection of religious and moral principles and the idea that existence is meaningless. This doesn't reflect my perspective. My perspective is that morals are relative and their meaning is therefore subjective. What is moral to one is immoral to another.

Religion
In the OP I said, "I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me." This isn't a rejection of all religious principles, nor a claim about "God." It was an attempt to filter out religious propaganda for the sake of a reasoned discussion.

Existing
I care about choice in existing. I had no choice in beginning to exist. At present, there is only a choice in when that existence stops. I do desire a choice in how long my existence continues. Lacking choice, I am unsatisfied with the reality of existence. This is not a suicidal proclamation and it is also not a statement of absolution.

Meaningful/Joyful Existence
Many people probably want this, but it doesn't reflect what I desire (choice). I'm also not facing a dilemma, I'm exploring perspectives. The way many people present "joyfulness" makes it seem like joy is a matter of happiness and that said happiness is the solution to everything.

There are many experiences that do not require joy/happiness or positivity to be satisfying/fulfilling. For instance, sadness, passion, love, pain. Happiness is not required for love nor is it required to experience pain and to find that experience satisfying. So I think "satisfaction" is a more accurate term for what I seek than joy, and it is my current perspective that satisfaction boils down to having choice (specifically with regard to existence).

Immortality
I do not worry that immortality will become joyless. I worry that I may lack choice. The lack of choices creates "hell." Currently, I have a choice to use Facebook. If Facebook were the only solution for existence, then choice is removed and I am forced to exist under the rule of Facebook. Facebook also might remove my choice to cease to exist.

My Current Perspectives
If death is inevitable, then whether one exists only today or for another 40, 80, or 1,000 years is equal. What one chooses to do with their life within that framework is equal on a macro scale, but not necessarily on a micro scale.

If there is reason to doubt that death is inevitable, and assuming that one desires to continue existing, then the pursuit of indefinite life extension in the experiential world is the differentiator that tips the scale on the value of existence as it is the only known remotely feasible path that offers the possibility of choice.

Morality is relative and subjective, and in an existence without choice, morality becomes primarily a factor in quality of life outcomes (micro scale).

If "God" must exist, then it is equally as probable that I am said God as the idea that there is an external God of all. While I cannot directly verify an external God of all, I can verify the idea of God, because I am discussing this idea right now. Furthermore, I can verify that I exist because I have experiences and because experiences are not had without an an experiencer. I am having an experience of creating this post right now, therefore I exist. I think, therefore, I am.

Still, a question arises about whether or not I am the source of said experience (as well as a question about what actually defines the concept of "I"). Unfortunately, without the experience of death, the after experience (if any) remains unknown.

In the end, I can't objectively verify myself as God, and the subjective verification of the same is subject to (potentially incorrect) assumptions and interpretations of personal experiences. This is also true of external Gods and the personal experiences of those who claim to *know* God based on personal experiences.

So in making the micro-scale assumption about God (and which is the *correct* God), given the assumption that God must exist, I choose to assume that I am God as, at minimum, I can verify I exist, and because I would not choose to give up power and control over my choices to another being, regardless of whether or not said being (or said being's followers) proclaim that said being is "God."

So what does this mean for my business outcomes? In light of these considerations, is there reason for me to adjust my current approaches to business and life?

If I am correct in the assumption that I am *God,* then I have a choice in my continued existence and how that existence ultimately plays out. If I am incorrect, then it means there may be another *God,* and I may be forced into an existence that I would not otherwise choose.

If I am God, then whatever approach I take to business or life is an experience of the existence I am creating, so it will ultimately work out because I say it will.

If I am not God, then how I choose to approach business or life matters to the extent that I value quality of life under the rule of another being.

If death is inevitable, and there is no God (or at least no God that gives a sh*t about humans), then everything else is equal and my approach to business and life is equal to all other approaches.

 

[ZF Lee]

So what does this mean for my business outcomes? In light of these considerations, is there reason for me to adjust my current approaches to business and life?

If I am correct in the assumption that I am *God,* then I have a choice in my continued existence and how that existence ultimately plays out. If I am incorrect, then it means there may be another *God,* and I may be forced into an existence that I would not otherwise choose.

If I am God, then whatever approach I take to business or life is an experience of the existence I am creating, so it will ultimately work out because I say it will.

If I am not God, then how I choose to approach business or life matters to the extent that I value quality of life under the rule of another being.

If death is inevitable, and there is no God (or at least no God that gives a sh*t about humans), then everything else is equal and my approach to business and life is equal to all other approaches.

Lex, you always have a choice.

And I believe any good God would be proud of your work so far-- be it on your own growth or in serving goodness how many bazillions out there with your products, courses, Forum writings, etc. Of course, nothing is perfect. Yet there can still be hope even in the brokenness.

I believe choice is the greatest gift we ever have...our greatest wealth.

It is what enabled MJ to endure so much to write his books and create this Forum. And by all these, he helped remind us we still had something we could use in a hopelessly crazy world.

The question for me is, "what are other perspectives/approaches and what meaning can I make from them? Also, what would adopting all or part of those perspectives/approaches contribute to my existence/life/business, and does that warrant a change?"

Not all ideas and perspectives MUST totally revamp us 100%.

Rather, they can add more depth to the beliefs we already hold.

For example, the Christian faith talks a lot about giving. And finding meaning in giving. But how exactly to do it in a modern context? In business? That is where I look for other ideas and beliefs from the Forum and many other places on how to truly execute.

 

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[amp0193]

I hadn't considered this before, but I might be lazy

Have you ever been tested or diagnosed for ADHD?

My wife only recently has learned in her 30s that she has severe ADHD and we're learning a lot about it together. It essentially has a firm grip over her motivation to do anything that she does.

On the surface, without context, one could describe her behavior sometimes as lazy. Yet there are times when she is highly prolific and maniacally focused towards a single objective because that thing is producing so much dopamine, sometimes for weeks or months at a time... Until the moment that it doesn't and that thing/hobby/interest/activity/chore is dropped completely and instantly, and she cannot will it to be done any further. It no longer brings her joy.

It is an ever-constant oscillation between lack of activity, and hyper fixation on a singular thing.

Might be something to take a look at if you haven't before as you try and figure this stuff out.

This thread came on the heels of a comment that I should try committing to something and sticking with it for years (as opposed to frequently creating new progress threads), but I didn't think I could properly explore whether or not that comment warranted consideration without digging into the foundational issues underlying my current and former approaches.

The question for me is not, "how do I change my perspective/approach so I can stick with something for longer?" The question for me is, "what are other perspectives/approaches and what meaning can I make from them? Also, what would adopting all or part of those perspectives/approaches contribute to my existence/life/business, and does that warrant a change?"

Didn't mean to cause the existential crisis here with that comment Lex, but maybe some good is coming from it as you self-reflect?

Longer-term commitment improves odds of success in business (which I generally assume is what people posting here on TFLF are striving for), and I felt compelled to call out what I perceived to be shiny object syndrome (which has been a trap I have fallen into in the past, and one that I want to help others avoid if I can).

But if better success in business isn't what you determine you want or need to be happy/fulfilled/satisfied/ok with your existence and life, then yeah, keep starting and exploring the things that make you happy, as long as they continue to do so, and no judgement from me.

Life has no inherent meaning and you create it to be whatever you want, which will be different than what everyone else wants.

 

[Andy Black]

there are times when she is highly prolific and maniacally focused towards a single objective because that thing is producing so much dopamine, sometimes for weeks or months at a time... Until the moment that it doesn't and that thing/hobby/interest/activity/chore is dropped completely and instantly, and she cannot will it to be done any further. It no longer brings her joy.

It is an ever-constant oscillation between lack of activity, and hyper fixation on a singular thing.

One of my sons is like that. As soon as something grips him he's down the rabbit-hole obsessing over it. Then he just stops. He might pick it up again a few months later, after a period of inactivity or obsessing about something else.

I'm a bit like that too I think. I have numerous "Figuring Out XYZ" threads as I like to start something, break the back of it, then move on.

I've learned to lean into it. It means I've actually "had a go" at lots of different things and can talk about them with business owners because I've done them. (I've a Twitter account with 1,700 followers, a YouTube channel with 1,200 subs, a LinkedIn profile with nearly 12,000 followers, I've been a podcast host, on the radio, given presentations in person, online, sold courses one-off, sold courses in memberships, ran a paid Xenforo forum, free and paid Facebook groups, free and paid newsletters, etc.)

I was on Snapchat years ago and built up a following. I've a TikTok account with maybe 20 videos where one video hit 10k views. I've done short vertical videos and long landscape videos and everything in between. Some are talking head, some are screenshare. Some ad lib and unedited, some lightly edited, some excruciatingly edited.

It seems I'm all over the place, but it helps me land clients. They come through to me asking for Google Ads help and I can talk about other channels not because I've read about them, but because I had a go myself, hit publish, and kept going till I got a bit of traction. They can tell I've done it from the way I talk about it, and I'll often share them on the Zoom call to "show, don't tell" the advice I'm giving them.

So what's consistent for me? What can I NOT stop doing?

Google Ads. People come along with lots of different niches and that satisfies my shiny object syndrome. I've been doing it since 2009 and it never gets old for me to hear about brand new niches and then starting the keyword research and campaigns to figure out if Google Ads will work for them. I'm currently leaning into NOT being niched down by going after funded startups or whale clients in different niches - where I'll charge more than the smaller local service clients I was going for previously.

Posting in the forum and hopping on Zoom calls with people. I've been here nearly 10 years and barely missed a day logging in and posting. It's organic and I've no idea what I'll read each day, or what will come out of my mouth responding. I'm trying to move some of that replying and posting "itch" to LinkedIn to see if I can be as prolific and as helpful over there. That's my current "Figuring Out XYZ".

The Zoom calls bring me business in an indirect way. The people I help for free refer me to people. Keep helping one person a week and the referal machine snowballs. Can I leverage that better by recording and publishing them? Probably, but I don't want them to be long rambling calls and I often talk about or show things I don't want published. (I also don't want to become a creator or influencer which means I've mental handbrakes on, rightly or wrongly. )

Oh, and I've a few bucket list business ideas I'm working on in the background, that use my Google Ads skills and allows me to help people at scale, using all the experience I've picked up about newsletters, courses, videos, email list building via Google Ads, etc.

I mention all this to say I know I bounce around a lot but I lean into it so each time I come full circle I've built a slightly higher moat. I imagine it's like going round in circles but up a corkscrew tower.

Anyway... hope that helps you Lex.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

At the risk of outing myself as a psycho...

This post is going to get kind of dark and difficult, but it highlights a core perspective in my life that I do not know how to change and am not sure needs to be changed. If you believe I should approach life or business differently than I have in the past, please add your perspective as it might make a difference. Maybe there's something I haven't considered.

My biggest obstacle in both business and life is that I don't know how to overcome my own reasoning. If I reason that the most likely outcomes in my future are A) Death or B) a world that changes inconceivably, then I also reason that joy/happiness/satisfaction etc., comes from the moment to moment experience. So if I do not enjoy what I am doing at the moment, I choose to change what I am doing because that is what I can control right now.

Not long ago, I reasoned that if death is the only option, then it doesn't matter if I die today or twenty years from now, so today is probably as good a day to die as any (besides, the world has become a bit insufferable). However, if there is even the slightest chance that I might overcome death, then all of my efforts should be put toward that end.

But, if overcoming death results in a different kind of perpetual hell due to the inevitable changes that will result over a long enough timeline, then death may still be the preferred option which brings me back to my original reasoning, except that if I might affect the changes that take place, and if in affecting said changes, I might exist for as long as I want not in a state of perpetual living hell, then that might be worth living for and working toward.

So here I am.

Caught between a rock and a hard place. Not sure if I should live even one more day, but curious enough to not call it quits yet. In the meantime, I'm left with the conclusion that doing whatever I want is the best choice in the moment because that remains the only factor I have any control over, and it remains the only instance of experience that I have at all. That said, doing whatever I want in the present moment *may* negatively affect my *future* moments of experience (let's avoid the issue of time for now).

Based on the above, I believe it would have been better if I had not existed at all so I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. But I never had a choice in that, so I conclude that as long as I'm not breaking laws that would negatively affect my experience, then doing what I want in the moment is still the most sensible conclusion.

As a result, I find myself regularly changing ideas and not making as much progress as others would like to see me make. I say "others" because when I ask myself if I am satisfied with my progress, the answer is either, "I am satisfied and should continue along this path" or "I am unsatisfied and should change this path." If it's the later, then I change directions.

These are difficult issues.

Many people turn to religion to avoid thinking about this stuff. I do not accept religion or deities as a valid solution for me, so I remain with, what many would describe as, a twisted worldview that holds me up in some areas, such as sticking with business ideas for years, while empowering me in other areas, such as in making quick decisions and taking decisive action.

Maybe this perspective makes sense. Maybe it doesn't. If I encounter a more reasonable perspective, then I would be open to changing my worldview, but so far that hasn't happened.

So if you have a different perspective that you think is more reasonable, please share it. The topic is open for discussion.

Great thread @Lex DeVille .

“For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.”

Matters of experience are matters of perspective. Perspective is not a matter of knowledge though, but of feeling.

And therein lies the problem.

More knowledge and mental activity cannot dig you out of the pit that knowledge and mental activity placed you in to begin with.

You already know this, but the “rational” part of the brain is a relatively new addition.

Some, like Peter Wessel Zapffe whose essay “The Last Messiah” you’d greatly enjoy given your worldview and somewhat antinatalist positions, would say that this rational part of the brain is nature’s biggest mistake.

Because, it is an interruption in nature’s flow and activity. As Hamlet says “the hue of resolution is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought.”

The Christian religion views this through the prism of “knowledge of Good and Evil” — ie conscience.

So you need to look into approaches that involve the heart, rather than the mind. Your “sickness unto death” follows Kierkegaard’s keen observation: “with every increase in the degree of consciousness, and in proportion to that increase, the intensity of despair increases: the more consciousness the more intense the despair”

What is required is reconnecting to the primal, non-rational aspects of yourself, what psychologists call “felt-perception”. You would think, for example, that factually speaking the life of a newborn in the womb is horrible and traumatic. They don’t know anything, they can’t formulate anything, they can’t even begin to make sense of what’s going on.

But that is so only from the perspective of thought. The baby only has access to felt-perception. Thought is something that comes later.

So this is a matter of creating the right relationship between sentiment and thought, between the heart and the mind. At the moment, the mind has the dominant position, which is unnatural. Remember, the mind is merely a excrescence of the evolutionary process, not the goal of life.

Life existed before mind, and it will exist after mind. Indeed, there is no mind without life.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Have you ever been tested or diagnosed for ADHD?

I score low in ADHD tests. The symptoms don't really reflect my life. I score higher on BPD and Bipolar tests, but the therapists I've seen didn't seem concerned.

For fun, I took some PsychCentral.com quizzes this morning;

- ADHD: Unlikely
- BPD: Likely
- Bipolar: An evaluation may be necessary
- Psychopathy: Possible psychopath
- Narcissistic: You're a total narcissist

Even if I were diagnosed with a disorder, I don't know what use it would be. I won't take medication for mental health concerns, so I'd just be left with a victimizing diagnosis that doesn't add particular value to my life (except making for a better headstone headline someday).

"Single Bipolar BPD Narcissistic Psychopath Dad Tried Everything, Failed Most of It, Still Took Over the World."

 

[AceVentures]

I score low in ADHD tests. The symptoms don't really reflect my life. I score higher on BPD and Bipolar tests, but the therapists I've seen didn't seem concerned.

For fun, I took some PsychCentral.com quizzes this morning;

- ADHD: Unlikely
- BPD: Likely
- Bipolar: An evaluation may be necessary
- Psychopathy: Possible psychopath
- Narcissistic: You're a total narcissist

Even if I were diagnosed with a disorder, I don't know what use it would be. I won't take medication for mental health concerns, so I'd just be left with a victimizing diagnosis that doesn't add particular value to my life (except making for a better headstone headline someday).

"Single Bipolar BPD Narcissistic Psychopath Dad Tried Everything, Failed Most of It, Still Took Over the World."

Are you down to do a psychometric test? I'll give you one for free. Show you which part of you is retarded using action. You can reverse engineer improvement of your cognitive and perceptive functions by integrating your neurotic patterns.

You've done a bunch of tests and been thinking about this question for a while now.

Are you open to analyzing your cognitive and your developmental behavior from the standpoint of your movements?

I'll show you if you're game.

One hour video call.

 

[Black_Dragon43]

- ADHD: Unlikely
- BPD: Likely
- Bipolar: An evaluation may be necessary
- Psychopathy: Possible psychopath
- Narcissistic: You're a total narcissist

From observing you via the forum, I’d say narcissistic and psychopathic are off the list. You display sufficient self-awareness to avoid narcissism and you do experience, from the looks of it, strong emotions which isn’t generally typical of psychopathy. You may sometimes have lessened empathy and fear responses, but that’s not enough to consider you psychopathic.

ADHD — definitely no.

BPD and Bipolar are indeed possible — this is an affliction of a lot of very creative people. And there’s no doubt that you ARE highly creative.

In the end an affliction like this is both a curse and your biggest strength. Just like OCD is for me.

I am also against medication, much like you. I think it dulls your senses and experience, and therefore, unless we’re dealing with immediately life threatening circumstances, to be avoided.

So first of all — don’t try to be like other people because you’re not. You find the best way to be you. The best way to leverage your condition and turn it into an asset.

For me, OCD makes me an amazing planner and leader. I can take into consideration remote possibilities that won’t even cross the mind of most other people. Therefore I can design and implement strategies that are more robust and likely to withstand negative events.

At my worst though, OCD can quickly turn to paranoia and distrust of people around, and seeing demons where there are none, which can quickly lead to disaster.

Such conditions are about developing self-awareness so you can use their advantages while avoiding the disadvantages with the full knowledge that you won’t always be able to avoid them completely. Sometimes you just need to be patient with yourself and give yourself some space.

 

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[Lex DeVille]

Are you down to do a psychometric test? I'll give you one for free. Show you which part of you is retarded using action. You can reverse engineer improvement of your cognitive and perceptive functions by integrating your neurotic patterns.

You've done a bunch of tests and been thinking about this question for a while now.

Are you open to analyzing your cognitive and your developmental behavior from the standpoint of your movements?

I'll show you if you're game.

One hour video call.

I took time to consider this, but I'm not sure what the point is. I'm not familiar with retardation in the way you've described it, so I'm not sure what benefit psychometric testing of this sort would offer. I do appreciate the offer, though.

From observing you via the forum, I’d say narcissistic and psychopathic are off the list.

Yeah, I don't meet the criteria for either of those. Although, I don't think I'm far from it, but of a different variety. Like the difference between a villain and a supervillain.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic for now. I'm gonna do whatever the F*ck I want and let the cards fall where they may. Not spending anymore time on existential topics for now.

 

[Lex DeVille]

Before I leave this topic, I did learn something about myself this week.

Sunday was my 37th birthday. I woke around 2 am. It was snowing, very cold out. I ran 2 miles. Came home, climbed three flights of stairs to my bedroom for a shower. As I was getting undressed, I heard a scream, so I opened the blinds.

A car was sitting in the middle of the road, blocking the entrance to the gas station. A woman was crying. She opened the hood, shut it, climbed back in her car cried more with the door open.

I got dressed, went downstairs, got my jumper cables and drove across the street. By the time I got there, a police officer had arrived, but he couldn't figure out what was wrong with the car. He also didn't have cables.

I told him I could jump it, and if it wouldn't start, I would help him push it out of the way.

So I jumped the car, but it only held a charge long enough to start and get in gear. Then I helped push the car up the slope into the parking lot. Then the police officer took the woman home. She was grateful. She'd just finished a 12 hour shift.

Anyway, I discovered that, given the opportunity, I will choose to help. So, at least on some level, I do care about helping others. I was wrong about that before.

 

[Primeperiwinkle]

Before I leave this topic, I did learn something about myself this week.

Sunday was my 37th birthday. I woke around 2 am. It was snowing, very cold out. I ran 2 miles. Came home, climbed three flights of stairs to my bedroom for a shower. As I was getting undressed, I heard a scream, so I opened the blinds.

A car was sitting in the middle of the road, blocking the entrance to the gas station. A woman was crying. She opened the hood, shut it, climbed back in her car cried more with the door open.

I got dressed, went downstairs, got my jumper cables and drove across the street. By the time I got there, a police officer had arrived, but he couldn't figure out what was wrong with the car. He also didn't have cables.

I told him I could jump it, and if it wouldn't start, I would help him push it out of the way.

So I jumped the car, but it only held a charge long enough to start and get in gear. Then I helped push the car up the slope into the parking lot. Then the police officer took the woman home. She was grateful. She'd just finished a 12 hour shift.

Anyway, I discovered that, given the opportunity, I will choose to help. So, at least on some level, I do care about helping others. I was wrong about that before.

You try to help ppl all the time dude. Fwiw, I think you just accidentally backed yourself into a Descartes corner and can't find your way out. I think it's going to take a lot more than a few online conversations to change that but I think you'll get there someday.

Happy Birthday.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

So, at least on some level, I do care about helping others. I was wrong about that before.

You indeed do help folks, you've helped many folks here over the years with a diverse variety of informative posts.

Side tangent: What part of Utah are you in? Why Utah? Was it a permanent move?

 

[Lex DeVille]

You indeed do help folks, you've helped many folks here over the years with a diverse variety of informative posts.

Side tangent: What part of Utah are you in? Why Utah? Was it a permanent move?

I'm in Layton, north of SLC. Utah has been on my list of places to move for a long time. I wanted to be near the mountains. Colorado was closer, but I didn't like the vibe. I still have a house in Missouri, but I handed it over to a property manager. Not planning to go back anytime soon.