Selling on Amazon? Amazon Vendors are vastly different than Amazon Sellers.

[theag]

The red text really adds to your credibility.

 

[Vigilante]

Let me correct a few things from your OP


A Sellers Account

1. Anyone can open one. (as long as you have a business, credit card, bank account, and in many categories can substantiate your legitimate operations)

1. Your product is in a sea of tens of thousands of products. (it's literally side by side with Amazon owned listings)

1. You sell one unit at a time. You have a choice. You can either fulfill your own product (i.e. ship your product to the customer) or you can for a fee have Amazon do your fulfillment. (true)

1. You get paid as your product sells. Unless you do Amazon fulfillment. Then you must send a large amount of product toAmazon and to have Amazon sit on the product until someone actually orders it. Thats a lot of money in inventory sitting there until you move it through Amazon. (true)

1. You CANNOT utilize Amazons internal PPC marketing program they just rolled out last year. This means that customers are going to have to find your product through a general search. Good luck selling your product that way as most consumers never leave the 1st page of a search result. (FALSE. Any marketplace seller can use Amazon PPC advertising)

A Vendor Account

1. You must be invited by Amazon or hire an agency that will get your product in as a Vendor. (true)

1. Amazon buys from you. Amazon now buys from you with wholesale pricing that you specify and in large quantities. No more sitting on inventory waiting for someone to buy something piecemeal. (at significantly LESS than your recovery costs as a marketplace seller. Amazon takes the retailer share of the margin... you don't)

1. Amazon provides all customer contact, fulfillment and returns. Saving you a ton of time and money to not staff these needs yourself. (similar to Amazon FBA, where they provide all of the same services)

1. You are paid in full for all orders with 30 days. Direct deposit to your bank account for the entire order...now you're really cooking with peanut oil. (sometimes. In MOST cases with new product lines, Amazon "buys" contingent inventory, and pays when product sells, not necessarily in 30 days. And, their preferred terms are N90, they like N60, and for the Sony's and Samsungs of the world will do N30.)

1. Amazon offers your product to all Prime Members. This means free shipping and if you don't think that free shipping means a lot to most US customers, think about it again. (FBA sellers are also prime eligible, and now you can be prime eligible in certain situations and still be FBM).

1. You CAN utilize Amazons internal PPC marketing program they just rolled out last year. This is a real game changer for your product because now your product appears on top of the list when a consumer keyword searches within Amazon. This works the same as it does when you do a google search. The keyword returns both paid and free items. Paid is on top which is the first thing the consumer sees and the free search results are down the page or many pages deep. Now where do you want your product to appear? (ALL forms of selling on Amazon have access to this.)

In most cases, the most profitable option is not to be an Amazon vendor, but to be a marketplace seller. You retain control, maximum profit, and can utilize all of the Amazon suite of services without losing profit and control.

 

[Vigilante]

Absolutely false: As a Vendor, Amazon power buys your product using your wholesale pricing and MOQ's. They do this to stock all of their distribution centers. You do not have to pay operation staff to fulfill orders nor hire customer service agents to handle the public, returns and so forth. Also your postage cost is higher as a seller you are paying for each item shipped to the consumer, rather than as a Vendor you are shipping larger boxes with more product to one business location. If you properly set your pricing your profit margin is much higher than if you were to hire staff to do the same or use FBA at considerable cost. Your COG is also considerably higher using FBA because you have inventory sitting there and you don't get paid until it sells, whereas as a vendor you are paid 30 days after the PO is issued and the product is received by the distribution center that ordered it. Additionally, You have their top tiered advertising platform that is not available to anyone but a Vendor which will put your product front and center thus maximizing sales.

What is your personal best month selling a product as a seller? if it not in the 10k piece range...be a Vendor. For my clients the problem is not sales...it's keeping up with demand.

Well, Troy, I defer to you. My experience is only
1. being Amazon's original sourcing consultant on Amazon's payroll when we opened their consumer electronics store with several thousand skus in one day
2. being Amazon's buyer/merchant recruiter during the .com boom, and being on Amazon's payroll as one of their first consumer electronics merchants
3. Recently doing a podcast with their senior vice president of FBA sales
4. As a vendor, selling in to Amazon in excess of $100m for my clients annually at cost
and
5. As a marketplace seller, vendor, sales rep, and one time INSIDERS with buying responsibilities on behalf of Amazon

There are almost zero scenarios in which your profit margin as a vendor TO Amazon will be higher than your profit margin as a seller ON Amazon. Amazon's margins are anywhere from 15% to 60% retail margin from the vendor's cost to Amazon, and that comes straight from the vendor's margin. As a marketplace seller, you have a few expenses, but nowhere near what the margin hits can be in most categories to be a vendor selling directly to Amazon (or any other retailer). Amazon doesn't care what your MOQ's are.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to being a vendor vs. marketplace seller to Amazon. You're only presenting one side, and it happens to be the same side from which you try and get people to use your company as a middle man into Amazon. Either that, or you don't understand both sides... but my guess is you do.

I assume your clients if you have any believe what you're saying (and maybe you do also), and you're taking a cut to boot. You'll have a harder time selling it here. You can keep parroting the same bullshit, but it doesn't make it any more true. You really don't know much about the whole Marketplace Seller side of the business as most of the things you sell your clients on are also available to marketplace and FBA sellers. Do some homework.

How much do you charge your clients, and what service do you provide that they couldn't do without you?

I think you're just irritated that I took your contact information out of your post. Our members don't need protecting, but they're just spam adverse. My advice to you is to hang out here a bit, get a feel of the place, learn a few things, and you will probably meet some cool people along the way with mutual interests.

If you came here to sell your services (which from only 2 posts is all I can surmise) you're at the wrong forum.

 

[biophase]

Notice at the top on your own picture there is a brand name THERMOS? It's above yours...so im not wrong

Troy,

Your post stated this:
"Yes you can use the sponsored products marketing tool with Amazon as a seller but your ads will be displayed BELOW search results....if you want your ads to appear at the top of the page rather than appear below search results, in the right column on search results pages, or in an ad placement on detail pages you will need an advertising account available only to Vendors"

The example I showed you showed sponsored ads above rather than below the search results and ads in the right column. The ad placement in the detail pages is a AMS only thing. And yes the banner above all listings is an AMS thing. I think you need to be more specific when making claims. Maybe you don't need to explain things that clearly to newbies when you are managing their account. But there are many experienced people here.

Yes this thread has opened some eyes. But more than likely it has brought some things to the surface that some people here already knew about but did not post. We are all here to learn.

Just started using AMS, will see how that compares to my regular PPC. I doubt it will be any better.

 

[amp0193]

Here's another cool thing about AMS: Audience Insights.

It's not super detailed, and there isn't anything more that what I shared in those pictures, but it did give me a starting point for my Facebook ad targeting.


If anyone is interested, I did attach the AMS User Guide to this post. It kind of breaks down what all you can do.

 

[DrkSide]

Troy, with a two post record you are not doing very well. First pimping yourself in a first post and spewing false information. I have less than 2 years selling on the Amazon platform and know that some of your points are BS.

Without going point by point I will say this. If I sold my products via Vendor Central I would make less money per item than I currently do. The FBA fees are less than a standard keystone discount that I would have to give to Amazon to carry my product.

 

[Ramble On]

My brand is registered but I haven't seen any information on AMS registration. I just see 5 options:

https://ams.amazon.com/selectAccountType/ref=ams_home_intro_register

• I have a Vendor Central login.
• I have an Advantage Central login
• I have a Vendor Express login.
• I want to request an invitation to represent a vendor.
• I have a Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP) account.

Any ideas on where to go? Might just request a call from Seller Central and ask them.

I just submitted for registration.

Select "I have a Vendor Central login"

Click "Next"

It will automatically pull up your Amazon login information.

After signing in it asks for your brand name.

Fill that out and submit.

After an email verification it indicates it usually takes 24 hours to get approved but sometimes takes up to 3 days.

 

[amp0193]

@Vigilante

Well, the cat's out of the bag on this. I heard that Scott Voelker had a guest on recently that mentioned using the Vendor Express backdoor to get to AMS, and now it's being posted about here. There will probably be untapped profits here for a bit, but it'll be swamped with people in the near future, just like Sponsored Products is now.

I had an awesome headline banner ad above the search results in my highly competitive niche for months, but recently new people have come in with higher bids and i'm getting fewer and fewer displays. Here's a screencap of a campaign I ran:

The average CPC was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than Sponsored product ads. An example: To get on the first page for sponsored products with my main keyword, you needed to bid $1.50. My average CPC for displaying at the top of the page for the same keyword was $0.20.

I will say that click traffic to the headline ads is much less than a regular in-line sponsored product ad. It will net you extra sales, but it probably won't be life-changing.

Also, you can't run reports on your campaigns, and you get less insight into campaign performance than you do with Sponsored Products. There is no "automatic" campaign option.

Could be the start of something great. When someone takes the time to dissect the PPC options and understands if it gives you different positioning than through Seller Central, please update. Right now, it looks like the "headline search results advertising" might give you the ability to position the entire brand, instead of just an item, at the top of the search results.

There are three options for placement.

Headline above the search results: This links to your brand page that you can set up with custom media, feature different product collections, highlight popular products, etc.

On the side of a detail page all the way on the right hand side, underneath the "Other Sellers on Amazon" box: For these you can target the pages of specific ASINs you want to display on, or you can display by "interest based". I tried these and found them to be incredibly ineffective and unprofitable. The CPCs were higher than my headline ads, and the conversions were way lower. I may try playing with these again, but I haven't had any luck so far.

And then the other option is running regular sponsored product ads, like you all already do.


The only downside is that you get a Vendor Express rep that will breathe down your neck by phone and email wanting to know when you're going to ship in product. Just email them back a reason why you are delaying your decision to do so for a few months, and that keeps them at bay while you run AMS ads. Maybe there will come a point where they shut down my Vendor Express account because of inactivity.


If I remember, the Vendor Express account was a little weird to get set up, and I did it last year so I'm not sure I would be much help to you all trying to figure it out. Just know that it exists, it works, and you don't have to be a vendor to use it.

tell ya what folks...why don't you go ahead and try to get an account with them...Ill make the Crow for me to eat if you can without being a Vendor.

When you're done with that crow @Troy Mangone I'd be interested to hear about how you are able to help your clients negotiate favorable terms with being a vendor to Amazon.com.

 

[Greyson F]

Well, this was the wrong place to be for today's Amazon Research hunt!

 

[JAJT]

This could have been an epic, epic thread full of tips and tricks and experiences and new ways of doing business and knowledge sharing between the top sellers on this forum. Instead we have condescension, defensiveness, annoying red text, and personal insults.

There's knowledge and insight in here but talk about taking the rocky road to get there.

 

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[MJ DeMarco]

Thread is turning out to be quite educational, despite the rough start.

 

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[amp0193]

This is one of the most classic threads on the forum lately, and it was made GREAT by @amp0193 who is slowly draining my rep bank. Awesome. OP, I told you if you hung around here you would learn a few things. This whole group moved ahead two steps.

Thanks @Vigilante

Without this forum, and specifically your Passive Income thread, I'd still be nowhere, and definitely wouldn't be 5-months away from quitting my day job. After making some huge progress in the last year, it's time to start giving back.


Stay tuned for a step-by-step thread on getting all of the money back that Amazon owes you right now.

I've gotten $4,000 back so far from the last 4 months of orders... and I'm not done with them yet.

 

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[Vigilante]

It depends on the price point and perceived volume...among a couple of other factors...

Depends on the category.

From Apple, on iPhones? YES

From a random brand, on sweatshirts? No. 60% margin for Amazon from your retail for a sweatshirt vendor plus terms, chargebacks, etc... (i.e. your retail is $19.99, Amazon cost from you is $8.00)

Electronics? 20%

Speakers? 50%

Accessories? 50% Amazon margin, minimum

Normal payment terms will be N90. Some get N60. High ticket, recognized brands (Samsung, etc... N 30 days payment terms)

Plastic dinnerware? 40%

Computers? Maybe 10% margin for Amazon from your cost, delivered to Amazon, to their retail.

Camping gear? 40% -45%

Televisions? 12%-15% margin for Amazon

Throw out random categories and I will give you a ballpark.

Toys? 50%

Games 50%

Novelty 50%

Seasonal 60%

RTA furniture 50%

Home accessories 40%-60%

Tools 40%

Digital Cameras, MP3 around 20%

Electronic accessories, like tripods, wall mount brackets 50%

 

[Vigilante]

Kills me that I had access to this tool box for years an never used it until you noobs came along to teach this old dog new tricks.

 

[Iwokeup]

prove it...

I'm sorry. Who are you, again?

Fri 1/15/2016 9:41 AM

Welcome,
Congratulations, [Your Brand]'s registration has been approved!

Drive sales by reaching millions of shoppers at Amazon.com. Create a free Amazon Page and drive shoppers to your page with keyword targeted Headline Search ads that appear prominently above Amazon.com search results.

Create your free Amazon Page to get started.

Once your page is approved, click here to create your first ad. Have questions? Contact us.

Sincerely,
The Amazon Marketing Services Team
https://ams.amazon.com

Now please go away.

 

[Iwokeup]

Signing up with Amazon under the VE program is a business transaction sir. You have essentially agreed (given your word) to abide by their terms which include sending them your free product. You did lie and cheat them and Amazon will see it the exact same way and when they do they will suspend your sellers account. So good luck.
I didn't add anything of value to this thread? I STARTED THE THREAD!!! There is a lot more I'm not going to elaborate on other than to say again that every point I originally opened with is true. Iv shared free information with you guys but you doubt it, call me a liar and your way is better. Well you are wrong. I know you wrong because I sell on amazon as both a Vendor and a seller and without question it is much better to be Vendor for all the reasons I already stated. You guys don't believe me then you go ahead and find out the hard way.

Look man.

None of us have ever met you in real life.

None of us know who you are, no one knows anything about your real life business, and this forum is PRIMARILY about providing value, and NOT about "Look how AWESOME I am!" At least not in an In Your Face sort of way. So far you've done very little to provide VALUE to the forum, though it's entirely possible that you've provided massive value in your real life business. Who knows?

But on THIS forum, you've (perhaps unintentionally!) come across as arrogant, condescending, and dismissive of anyone who disagrees with you...and you've done so to and in front of multiple successful entrepreneurs making six to seven figures a month, or others who have 'made it' (successfully exited). You DID spark a very useful discussion and I do thank you for that. But I have to wonder how successful you are in real life if you talk to people the way that you do here.

[I am by NO MEANS a 'successful entrepreneur,' and yet as a provider of services in the real world I wouldn't DREAM of speaking to people the way that you do.]

Anyway, from a regular user here, I hope that you PLEASE tone it down and take a different approach. Seems like you have some very valuable insights to offer.

Cheers,

 

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[biophase]

What makes money is a product that sells and sells quickly. Cash flow with a turnover of less than 60 days. You can't do that with just a sellers ac and those that can't consult.

You would know that I am right. If you actually ever managed a successful product yourself you would know that operational costs and holding costs can BK any good product. What makes money is a product that sells and sells quickly. Cash flow with a turnover of less than 60 days. You can't do that with just a sellers account. You will never do enough volume and you will have product sitting around forever. Do you think factories just make 20 pieces? Of 50? Try thousands...they make thousands and pricing discounts accordingly but MOQ's start in the 1000's for factories. Otherwise your production costs are so high you cant compete in this market. DO THE MATH...

Some of your statements are so far out there I just really don't think you know what you are talking about.

What do you consider enough volume on a sellers account? I'm curious because you talk about big volume and then quote that factory MOQs start in the 1000's? Obviously we know that. You think we would answer on this thread if we weren't ordering container loads? Do you consider $300k a month enough volume or are you talking about $1m a month? Just trying to understand where you are coming from because if you can't do that with a sellers account I wouldn't have confidence that you could do better with a vendor account.

Your first post sounds like you are talking down to us. And those bullet points are very subjective and open for interpretation. You also assumed that nobody here has been asked to be a vendor.

 

[JasonR]

Dude, this thread rocks.

I actually have known about the vendor express sponsored products, but have neglected to set it up until now. Just set up a test campaign (thanks to this thread as a reminder), and I already had a vendor express account set up when I first learned of it.

I'll update the thread with my results - but I'm super excited that I can bid on the TOP of the search results, and on my competitor's products. If you look closely you can also see Amazon runs email ads. For this particular product, no one seems to be doing this. Muhahaha - love tips like this.

Realistically, I only expect a marginal increase in sales, but I'll take anything that helps me rank.

Did you know you can also get A+ pages through Vendor Express? Pages like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X5RV14Y/?tag=tff-amazonparser-20

I'm sure others, like me, have a plethora of Amazon ninja tricks up their sleeve.

Like...did you know you can get twice as many keywords on your listing if you use flat files? Stuff like that...

 

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[Jon L]

I am a VENDOR of multiple products...products that I invented and took from conception to market. I also represent other like products. I thought I would contribute to something and share some knowledge but I see that the moderators that moderate a lesser know website think they know more than people that bring products to market...I'm very disappointed...

you might want to start over here, and when you do, do so with some humility. Even 'experts' don't know everything. Someone else may be just as successful as you on Amazon, but may have used a method completely the opposite of yours. That doesn't mean that you're right and they're wrong, or vice-versa. What it probably means is that there are deeper truths at work. I for one simply don't believe what you say here. There very rarely is 'one right way' to conduct business.

In my experience, there are a ton of variables that go into making a business work successfully. There is also, usually, some 'secret sauce' that is the core that actually makes the business profitable, and that has very little to do with decisions like 'should we become a vendor or not.'

 

[Vigilante]

I was just trying to be informative on the first post because a lot of people trying to bring products to market do not realize there is a difference. Most products do not get offered Vendor accounts. If you do the math it is far better to have a Vendor account. A huge reason it is better is you get paid 30 days after your product is received by Amazon. If you go the sellers rout and FBA your product could be sitting there awhile increasing your cost of goods. You also don't have access to Amazons best marketing platform. The picture below is of the platform I am referring too and notice who it is available to...not sellers...unless you sell media...incidentally AMS does not accept just any Vendor...tell ya what folks...why don't you go ahead and try to get an account with them...Ill make the Crow for me to eat if you can without being a Vendor. I have a good recipe because I have eaten it before...unless Amazon has been lying to me this entire time...its only available to Vendors.

Addressing your MOQ's from factories. Obviously the more you order at a time the more of a pricing discount you will receive. That of course depends on cash flow and product turnover.

I sent @LightHouse my Amazon Marketing Services account. Ask him if you have any questions. I don't care if you eat crow or not. That's not what we are about. It is totally OK here to be wrong, as long as you don't walk around like an a$$.

When you get your brand into the Amazon brand registry, you are eligible for an Amazon Marketing Services account. You don't have to become an Amazon vendor. Getting brand registry approval unlocks this portal access for you. https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/help.html?itemID=200955930

It's a separate process. It doesn't require being an Amazon vendor. (@LightHouse here's the link https://sellercentral.amazon.com/hz...izard?_encoding=UTF8&referrer=Self-registered)

It's 100% totally cool and OK that you didn't know that. I can take your criticisms and dismiss them (nobody really cares), but I do resent you mocking the very forum that you came to enlighten.

 

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[Vigilante]

Congratulations!

XXX’s page at Amazon has been approved and is now live. To see the page, visit http://www.amazon.com/XXX

Now that it is live, you can advertise your page above search results at Amazon with keyword targeted Headline Search Ads. Drive sales by reaching the right shoppers with highly relevant ads.

Create your ad today.

Sincerely,
The Amazon Marketing Services Team



*** I have to explore this more. It seems I can drive my overall branding page as an ad above search results. So, thanks OP! Wasn't what you thought it was, but might have opened my eyes to something in my tool box that I didn't even realize was there ***

 

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[Vigilante]

This is one of the most classic threads on the forum lately, and it was made GREAT by @amp0193 who is slowly draining my rep bank. Awesome. OP, I told you if you hung around here you would learn a few things. This whole group moved ahead two steps.

 

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[amp0193]

Returns and reimbursements? I have been sending that around to everyone if that's hat you are talking about. it's a huge thing i think almost no one knows about.

These things:
"Other Concession" refunds
Customers not returning refunded products" within 45 days
Destroyed Inventory
Shipment Reconciliations
Inventory that Disappeared without a trace
20% Restocking Fees for products returned after 30 days
Overcharges of Weight or Commission Fees
Replacement given to customer, but original never returned
Making sure refunds from Amazon for all of the above actually got deposited into my account


It's a lot of stuff to sift through. I'm making a trello board with step-by-step processes with what reports I need and the scripts I'm using when opening cases with Amazon. When I get it more organized, I'll share the processes in a thread here.

 

[AllenCrawley]

Congratulations!

XXX’s page at Amazon has been approved and is now live. To see the page, visit http://www.amazon.com/XXX

Now that it is live, you can advertise your page above search results at Amazon with keyword targeted Headline Search Ads. Drive sales by reaching the right shoppers with highly relevant ads.

Create your ad today.

Sincerely,
The Amazon Marketing Services Team



*** I have to explore this more. It seems I can drive my overall branding page as an ad above search results. So, thanks OP! Wasn't what you thought it was, but might have opened my eyes to something in my tool box that I didn't even realize was there ***

A group of us just learned about this this week. As soon as we get home I'm diving in.

 

[million$$$smile]

This. Is. Gold.

 

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[amp0193]

Which TAS episode was it? Or can you explain the vendor express work around here?

Thanks for sharing some in depth info.

I think it was towards the end of this one: http://theamazingseller.com/tas-120...-and-launch-products-employee-shares-details/. Again, I didn't actually listen to it, but someone just told me it was mentioned in there.

Got turned back for not having a vendor central ID.

You made a wrong turn somewhere.

Here's what I remember, maybe it will help:

Sign up for Vendor Express at: https://vendorexpress.amazon.com/

When it comes to the part where it asks you to input product info, skip it.

Signing up should give you a vendor Login.

Go to https://ams.amazon.com/ and use that login to get rolling.


If I remember, I had some snafus getting access to the ads. I think that when creating my profile, that changing my company name to match my brand name is what got the problem solved.

 

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[amp0193]

Signing up with Amazon under the VE program is a business transaction sir. You have essentially agreed (given your word) to abide by their terms which include sending them your free product. You did lie and cheat them and Amazon will see it the exact same way and when they do they will suspend your sellers account.

https://vendorexpress.amazon.com/help/topic/201975020
"The first time you submit a product in Amazon Vendor Express, you will need to accept the Vendor Express Terms and Conditions. This is required before we can send you your first purchase order."

Well seeing as how I haven't, and won't, send in product, I guess I haven't accepted or agreed to any Terms and Conditions yet.

There is a lot more I'm not going to elaborate on other than to say again that every point I originally opened with is true.

Except for this one:

"You CANNOT utilize Amazons internal PPC marketing program they just rolled out last year."

 

[exclusives88]

Update: I got AMS all set up. This is what I've noticed

1. Headline Search converts better and cheaper than Product Display Ads.
2. Product Display Ads is expensive!
3. CPC is way cheaper using Headline Search compared to Regular Amazon PPC. However click through rate is lower. Because of this, my sales is lower from AMS but ACOS % is lower. ACOS % is around 7.5% vs 12.5% on regular PPC

Overall, it's worth it and I will continue using it. This with a combination of regular PPC takes up a lot of the first page which means more eyes will get to your listing Actually, I have 4 listing on the first page plus regular PPC and AMS headline search ad. I take up half of the first page lol

 

[amp0193]

No crow here...you cheated and essentially lied...I'm sure they will catch abusers like you and change the qualification i.e they must receive product first to allow access to AMS.

1 year later, my AMS ads are still doing great.

Here's a couple of nice ads I started at the end of August:

Not only have they not "caught" me, but they've assigned me my own personal AMS ads rep.

 

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[LightHouse]

Do you mean sponsored products? Yes you can use the sponsored products marketing tool with Amazon as a seller but your ads will be displayed BELOW search results....if you want your ads to appear at the top of the page rather than appear below search results, in the right column on search results pages, or in an ad placement on detail pages you will need an advertising account available only to Vendors.

This is completely un-true, With amazon PPC you can bid for and most products have 1-2 PPC results on the first and second place on the search pages above the first organic result. If you bid for that, you can get that result and also the first sidebar. All on the open PPC platform for normal sellers. Then a week or two ago they announced Bid+ which specifically targets the first spot.

I agree with whoever said it above, you need a bulk sized dose of humility here.